Krungthepian

In regard to earlier post re police demanding a large sum re the closure of Rain Dogs. It appears they had legitimate grounds for closing the bar down in that it reportedly had no liquor license, but some fans of the bar are hoping an arrangement can be reached with neighbours & the authorities to open it again in the future, as it was seen as a popular venue. It's actually tucked almost under the freeway near the off-ramp at Rama IV and a little bit away from homes, so there shouldn't be many nearby residents affected.

Also some have claimed the accident was captured on 24-hour surveillance cameras. That may clarify whether the driver who hit him ran a red light. Meanwhile, the driver allegedly went to the funeral for a short time yesterday to pay his respects to the deceased and the grieving family. That gesture was appreciated by a number of his friends, and there doesn't appear to have been any overt anger directed at the driver, as far as can be made out - rather just sadness over the loss of a popular man with decent values and a passion to help those suffering in the world.

Buddhist rites for the deceased continue tonight (7pm) and tomorrow (Sat) at Wat Klong Toei Nai.

First Rain Dogs gets closed by the police, now its founder deceases.

Truly bad times for bohemian Bangkok.

It's an interesting link. Tor was reportedly very upset by the closure of the bar and an alleged request for a big sum before it could be reopened. At least one nearby resident with a certain amount of "pull" was pushing to have it shut, people have claimed. This had depressed him and was a subject of discussion in the hours prior to his death; however no-one is suggesting his tragic death was anything but an accident. Crossing city roads can be a hazardous thing in Bangkok even in broad daylight, and it's possible the busdriver was "enjoying" the relative freedom of little traffic prior to the return of the upcountry hordes later that night. He has reportedly claimed to be doing only the speed limit, but there's not a lot of info on that at present.

Irrawaddy website has links to two reports he did for them.. one on the crisis in Sri Lanka.

He was a good fella; and is wife Jum delightful. There are some nice tributes on his Facebook page, including ones by Jonathan Head (BBC, now in Istanbul), Richard Lloyd-Parry plus others that talk about his adventures working in places not far from conflict, such as Timor in 1999, Sri Lanka, etc. I think he was caught in a police station somewhere that was attacked by rebels, plus taken hostage in Aceh while researching a story about women raped by the Indon military.

A man with strong values and great humanity. RIP my friend.

I think Churchill needs to be careful where he sources material.. the TNA site is a conventional news site, which is ok, but the first one - the Centre for Public Policy Analysis is a Washington based lobby group. It has a record of publicising wild accusations that are rarely if ever run in the mainstream media, because there is usually no evidence whatsoever to suggest they are true. A lot of their reports are regarded by governments and journalists here as virtual poppycock. Indeed, there are concerns that this outlet runs exaggerated reports to deliberately stir up sympathy in the US (where about 300,000 Hmong now live) about the plight of the Hmong in Thailand. It's a tricky subject, because they often talk about atrocities committed against "jungle Hmong" in the isolated north of Laos, in the Phu Bia area. But the chances of getting photographic or video evidence to support such accusations are slim. Photos and video did emerge about six years ago in relation to a handful of children allegedly killed by Lao or Vietnamese troops, I believe. Those images were shown at the FCCT (and I think they are on YouTube and other sites on the Net). But there hasn't been anything much since.

Agence France Presse ran a much more credible report on Monday, which your outlet may have carried. The news today (early Wed and still unconfirmed) was that 45 trucks turned up at Huay Nam Khao refugee camp in Phetchabun. (And in regard to an earlier post that Huay Nam Khao is not a refugee camp; let's just note that MSF regarded Huay Nam Khao as a refugee camp and so do all mainstream media outlets; however there is doubt over the status of the 4000 or so Lao Hmong in the camp; a large proportion are thought to be economic migrants seeking a better life in the West, while a smaller group, perhaps just in the hundreds, are believed to be genuine refugees with stronger grounds for fearing persecution if returned to Laos.. I think MSF documented at least 88 people with bullet wounds, for example).

Anyway, as said, today's news was Thai govt trucks arriving to send a large number of these Lao Hmong back to their homeland.

There was another interesting development: Roger Warner, an American writer and author of a terrific book on the Secret War in Laos, wrote a story which was published on the Huffington Post website. It quoted Warner, who knows the Hmong predicament well, as saying that Vang Pao - the legendary Hmong leader - plans to make a return to Thailand and would meet Lao officials in the middle of the Friendship Bridge (halfway across the Mekong between Nong Khai and Laos) on January 10. He will then allegedly return to Laos for the first time since the war and set up a big farm in the south of Laos, where the HNK Hmong could go to work. This would be a major story if true. But initial inquiries by people monitoring the Hmong situation in the three key countries (Thailand, Laos and the US) suggests this story is also NOT true; and that officials in these three countries (including both at the State Department and the US embassy in Vientiane) say they've heard absolutely nothing about the latest Vang Pao plan, and they fear it is simply a financial scam. Members of Vang Pao's inner circle have been accused repeatedly over the years of attempting to scam money of the Hmong diaspora in the US.

One NGO contact alleged today that VP is broke - despite the fact he got off his legal case launched two years ago for supposedly plotting a coup to bring down the Vientiane government. The same contact claims Lao govt officials treated Warner's report with disdain, and asked why would they want to contact a man they regard as a traitor. I should note, this is not meant to belittle Warner, who is a great writer and has deep knowledge of Vang Pao and what the Hmong endured from the early 60s. However, we fear he may have been duped - and that VP won't come to Thailand and the whole plan is bulldust.

I detail these allegations purely to try to illustrate that there are "toxic" (or unreliable, if you are generous) figures in the Hmong community in the US. And one of them is regular source of information quoted on Philip Smith's Centre for Public Policy Analysis website. Journalists here in Bangkok monitoring the Hmong dilemma don't rate it as a credible source.

On the other hand, it does look like the Thai government is about to attempt a mass return of Hmong to Laos. The problem the diplomatic community and many journalists in Bangkok have with this is that Thailand hasn't put a proper screening system in place to determine who are legitimate refugees and who aren't. Laos steadfastly refuses to allow the UN or an independent third party to get involved, for reasons that do it no credit at all.

MSF warned when they withdrew from providing medical care at the camp earlier this year that there could be riots if people are forced to return against their will. This is possible. Abhisit claimed today there were no indications of people who have already been returned to Laos being mistreated. About 3,000 people have been returned to date, but this claim is garbage. There is no proper way to determine that because the Lao government has only allowed "show visits" on a small handful of days when all present could see the Hmong were under pressure to behave and were closely watched when speaking to visitors - be they diplomats or journalists. People who have looked at these returns closely and monitored the visits by Lao officials to the 158 Hmong at the Nong Khai IDC - such as American photographer Roger Arnold - say it is very obvious that Vientiane is using ugly intimidatory tactics both when they visit the IDC, Huay Nam Khao and at Baan Phalak (the main returnee site in Laos).

I think we also need to recognise that hundreds of Hmong - among those suspected of being most at risk of persecution on return - have fled Huay Nak Hao (prior to the construction of bigger fences some months back) and are simply living in the wild in other parts of Phetchabun or in other provinces. One of those was a man who acted as a guide for a BBC correspondent who secretly visited a group of "jungle Hmong" about five years ago. Thailand has never ratified the Geneva Convention on Refugees, largely because that is seen as giving away their right to force the thousands of people who pour in over almost all borders annually back to the countries from where they came. With 140-150,000 people in the Burma border camps and perhaps two to three million Burmese working (most illegally) in Thailand, one has to sympathise with their situation. However, they need to proceed cooly and thoughtfully, cos they could precipitate a major drama. Any move to force the 158 Hmong at Nong Khai, for example, could lead to a mass suicide, as the people there have been locked up for over three years and are now in a highly emotional and vulnerable state of mind. All of these people (which includes 90 kids) have UN refugee status; although that appears to mean nothing to some Thai and particularly Lao officials.

People with a deep knowledge of refugee laws, such as Chulalongkorn's Prof Vitit Muntabhorn, say Thailand should immediately free the Nong Khai Hmong and bring in a third-party to properly screen the 4,000 left at HNK. However it looks like the military feels it can do what it likes because the refugee camp is miles from nowhere and they have gotten away with violence many times before.

On Monday, Hun Sen returned 20 Uighurs who sought refugee status. They were sent back to China despite likelihood they will face long jail terms or even the death sentence. That act - in return for further Chinese aid - was an outrage, loudly condemned by the US and activists.

Let's hope Thailand can act with some restraint; and try to develop a more credible monitoring process, so refugees are treated fairly and with some compassion. Forty years ago, the Hmong put their lives on the line and fought side by side with about 30,000 Thai troops (privately hired by the CIA) against the Communist forces in Laos. Now, their descendants are being treated like the enemy. Thailand needs to remember its history and learn some proper values.

And the US needs to help remedy a problem it started by getting more actively involved.

A website has been set up in Simon's memory ..

http://simonjohnstone.livejournal.com/

It has more details for those who knew him.

His cremation is next Sunday at 5pm at the big wat in Ekamai near the Skytrain station. Then his ashes will be scattered in the Chao Phraya.

He had a remarkable interest in linguistics.. used to see him trying to decipher hieroglyphics at work sometimes.

Or buying large green Heines in the 7/11 at Nation Tower.

The end was quite swift, I think; a life just taken away. Makes you think about the ones you love; how they also may not be with us, suddenly.

Given the level of problems in this country it's easy to kick them. But they've done the right thing here. The policies of the previous "ousted fugitive PM" in regard to the police had far-ranging impacts; Thaksin essentially encouraged lackeys and senior cops more interested in making money than solving crime.. these sorts of low-level problems are a direct result of his selfish policies, which very obviously set the country back years.. part of the problem now is they have a government with some of those same "scumbags" (to use a lovely Aussie term) in power.. the Newin faction or Bhum Jai Thai party which has control.. you guessed it, of police via the Interior Ministry. So the weak links in the chain continue; despite valiant efforts by the PM to get a clean cop at the top (a task which is proving ludicrously difficult cos of stuff-ups by Suthep and Niphon from his own party). Personally, I think they are cleaning some of the dead wood out, however, not fast enough. The reds are due to rally this coming Saturday and you can bet it's going to be a mess because Thaksin is bankrolling their pathetic behaviour.. from the rowdies throwing pla ra in Lop Buri yesterday.. to others organising the masses next weekend.. he wants his $2 billion back. And the Democrats and Abhisit have basically given him the finger. But when you have a police force that is so "red" or politicised by the former PM, that the new premier has to impose special laws (ISA) to allow troops to handle demonstrations, because he can't trust the police - given what they allowed in Pattaya - it shows how deep problems go.

This jetski grub is just a blemish on the butt of Thailand.

Anyway, it's obviously just gonna take time - years - to sort things out; and you wouldn't put money on their chances of them doing anything better than just muddling through. You gotta pray this govt gets its act together and helps boost employment and charter changes or whatever else they have to do to lift the economic and social malaise, cos there are plenty of people who want a return to the grubby days when Thaks was in charge and money ruled supreme.

This verdict is not necessarily a bad one. There was some speculation that Pichet, the alleged gunman, was a "patsy" - an alleged killer set up for this 'hit' for political reasons. I believe he was charged just prior to the arrival of an Australian government delegation in Thailand. The timing of his arrest and announcement that he had been charged with for this killing may well have been related to that visit - the prosecution of Wansley's killers was a big issue for Aussie authorities and had been raised by virtually all senior people at the embassy here in previous years, because the Thai justice system was operating badly.. one of the alleged masterminds, part of the "sugar mill mafia" from Nakhon Sawan, had bribed a provincial judge, who was later disciplined for that offence, and the case had to be transferred to a court in Bangkok. But I'm not such that defendant was ever punished for paying the bribe.

Overall, the Thai police did a fair job. They appear to have got the bulk of the people behind this ugly slaying.. two got death in Sept 2006, plus several others got life. However, the greatest injustice for some who watched the outcome of this case three years ago was that the alleged kingpin, a big fat sugar mill boss called Pradit, walked free. Phone records reportedly showed that all of the offenders convicted had regularly rung a mobile number listed as belonging to the Namtal Kaset mill, but the prosecution was never able to prove that those calls went to Pradit. He got the benefit of the doubt also, but for my mind, you really wonder why all these "underlings" acted in such a concerted way .. get convicted .. yet they let a person with far greater motive free.

So, a mixed result overall. The wealthy walk free again.

I honestly believe they need major changes to the Thai justice system. This case went on for seven years with hearings every second Tuesday. That, frankly, is ludicrious. It's also quite common. If you look at the case of the Kader fire - over 100 killed I think - but 10 years before the trial ended; that was another case involving "influential" defendants. For me, justice delayed is often justice denied. I believe they really need major reforms to speed up the court process as well as a far harsher when "hi-so" are accused of serious crimes. They need to start putting some of the fat cats behind bars, to show the justice system operates without bias. The poor often never get bail, while the rich are let out and left free to do everything imaginable to keep themselves free.

The current justice minister is reportedly quite right wing. I wish he would get the senior judges together and really try to get cases processed quicker. Maybe even put some time limits on to force judges to top the bullsh-t and get the system cranked up better. Even the case involving the confiscation of Thaksin's assets is dragging out slowly, slowly - they are ludicriously overly lenient. Why do they need 30 days (not sure of the exact figure, but think it's about that) to lay out a defence that he didn't accumulate $2 billion in Thai banks via corrupt means, when they could simply be told to do it in several weeks, with hearings four to five days a week? If they can do that in the West, why can't they do it here? It smacks of lethargy.

I think they also need to remove the ban on people commenting on court verdicts, which is perhaps one of the most outrageous blocks on freedom of expression here. Even if they only allow "measured" remarks by academics or senior reporters. The media is part of the justice system in Western societies - indeed they regularly "out" magistrates and judges for their appalling verdicts or remarks. A capacity for this is greatly needed in this country, I believe.

Apologies for the rant, but I think the justice system is incredibly important and a major source of grievances by the poor (and the red shirts). If they can make it better - flood it with more funds and staff, if need be - they could greatly reduce the angst in society or swelling resentment over "injustices" by the poor.

This is a worthy issue to campaign about - or much more preferably - actually doing something to try to prevent occurring.

But as several earlier posters have said - the figure mentioned ($28 billion) is ludicrous.. I believe ECPAT are regarded by some academics, journalists, etc, as having a bad tendency to grossly exaggerating the scale of the problem.. presumably to validate their work, and attract donations in a economically constrained world.

Prostitution involving underage kids is probably an ugly reality in all countries, and one would presume that trafficking of young people for sexual purposes is much worse in poorer regions (and that the problem is worse in neighbouring countries; I'm sure most NGOs and academics say it's a far greater problem in Cambodia than here).

It IS a problem in Thailand - although probably mainly in the North and involving stateless (hilltribe or migrant) children. Someone above has already noted the involvement of hilltribe kids. Friends of mine who live in Chiang Mai say the same thing.

It probably also exists in dodgy places in Pattaya (Sunee Plaza?) and Bangkok's Chinatown, both of which had (have?) a bad reputation for this.

But people who have read Simon Baker's book 'Child Labour and Child Prostitution in Thailand: Changing Realities' would know the problem has diminished greatly from what it was in the past two decades. This book (White Lotus 2007) is based on the field work Baker did for a PhD. He recently worked at the HIV unit at Unesco in Bangkok.

Baker is an Australian who gave talk at Unesco five or six years ago where he noted that child prostitution had greatly declined in Thailand for a whole range of reasons - such as rising affluence and the simple fact most children were/are staying in school for years longer than previously and thus not forced to work or be in places where they might be vulnerable to abuse.

It's nice to see groups like Body Shop and others getting on board to fight trafficking of kids, but I really wonder how much of their money is wasted on big press events such the one in Bangkok yesterday, to promote the ECPAT report, when it would be better spent at centres in the north, or NGOs working on child protection near any of Thailand's borders, where there are vulnerable children.

Indeed ECPAT should get smart and start lobbying the government to give identity cards to all hilltribe people ASAP. That would offer much greater basic protection - by giving children access to education and a host of other state services, allowing their parents to travel outside their local area to work, and not locking these people out of the "system", as is currently the case for maybe half a million people. A lot of those people are Thai-born and raised, but never got birth certificates or ID cards.

They ought to light a fire under the Interior ministry and expedite this change rapidly, cos it is incredibly important, as the UNESCO anthropologist David Feingold has highlighted on many occasions - he oversaw a big study a year or two ago funded by the Brits, which revealed very damning statistics about the poverty inflicted on hilltribe groups because of the appallingly slow and racist manner in which Thai officials process identity documents. I think Feingold rated lack of identity documents as the single greatest factor that made hilltribe women, girls or kids vulnerable to prostitution and sex trafficking.

A friend who used to live in Sangkhlaburi said today it used to be common for officials - police, soldiers, govt people - to ring ahead and book a girl (often young) at hotels at that town. I don't know if the problem is still that open, but it's those out-of-the-way border areas, I suspect, where these situations are perhaps the worst.

I hope ECPAT opens shelters or sponsors effective personnel in those areas instead of just setting up an office in Bangkok to blow their bugle. I think the problem is recognised in the major urban areas and it's out on the frontier that they really need to get to work now. And probably neighbouring countries, simply cos they're poorer and more vulnerable to this whole scenario.

There was a report on Australian TV about a month ago on a former soldier from Brisbane who has a small organisation called the Grey Man.. he has allegedly been involved in the rescue of 80 young women or girls (later handed to the International Justice Mission, I think), and the arrest of about 20 Thai or Lao men who procured or offered those young girls for sex. That could be fairly dangerous work, but that fellow appears to have had a lot of success. He's allegedly had to employ local men to work in his place because word has spread about him, but I'd be more inclined to back someone like that than Ecpat, largely because he appears to be getting results rather than talking a lot about the problem. Maybe Ecpat should hire people to do the same.

Also, I think there's a much better chance of getting a good response from officials at present, as my impression is the Abhisit government does want to clean up corruption, particularly in the police force .. that's why you're seeing all these moves to get red-shirt Thaksin-loving police chiefs out of the driving seat. And murder charges laid on police in Kalasin and Tak for killings during the war on drugs, etc. They need to flush all those bad cops out of the system, and I think they are quietly trying to do just that. Pray that they have some success, cos this country needs a lift after five and a half years of Thaksin (and all the lingering trouble he's stirring up because they want to confiscate his corruptly acquired billions).

Pardon for the yellow-shirt promo, but I think when you have a system that's rotten from the top down - in which cops bid for the most lucrative stations (such as Lumpini, cos it's got Patpong in the area, or Mae Sot immigration office), you have a recipe for disaster.. and people who want to make money involved in crime rather than fighting it. Clean up the force and all problems here - from child sex to everything (except perhaps a rubber sapling scam) get tackled better, faster and more thoroughly. That's the theory, anyway.

All we need is for the Burmese to nuke the reds, and our problems are over.

Another report...

Lese majeste claim

FCCT board members face police probe

Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation 2-7-09 (page B1)

For the first time in its five-decade history, the whole board of the Foreign Correspondents’ Club of Thailand (FCCT) has been accused of committing lese majeste, a crime with a maximum jail sentence of 15 years.

Laksana Kornsilpa, 57, a translator and a critic of ousted and convicted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra filed a lese majeste complaint against the 13-member board at Lumpini police station on Tuesday night.

Laksana was quoted on ASTV Manager website as claiming the board’s decision to sell DVD copies of Jakrapob Penkair’s controversial speech at the club back in 2007 constituted an act of lese majeste.

She alleged that the whole board “may be acting in an organised fashion and the goal may be to undermine the credibility of the high institution of Thailand”.

ASTV Manager daily also quoted Laksana as saying some major local newspapers may also part of a movement to undermine the monarchy.

FCCT president Marwaan MacanMarkar said the board members have decided not to give separate interviews. It issued a statement saying: “The FCCT will cooperate with such an inquiry [by the police].”

The board, includes three British nationals including the BBC’s Bangkok correspondent Jonathan Head, three American nationals, including two working for Bloomberg and the Wall Street Journal, an Australian national and a Thai news reader for Channel 3, Karuna Buakamsri.

Social critic and lese majeste case defendant Sulak Sivaraksa, reacting to the news, told The Nation yesterday that “the problem of [abusing] lese majeste law is now utterly messy”.

“The fact that leading world intellectuals like Noam Chomsky and others have petitioned to [PM] Abhisit [Vejjajiva to reform the law] is a testimony to it. If we let it goes on like this it will get even messier. It’s time for the government to do something.”

A source within the FCCT, speaking on condition of anonymity, said he was “surprised” at the latest allegation, which came after two years of the speech being made, adding that “it places Thailand in a very poor light”.

DVDs were set up largely for club members who missed interesting talks and sales are restricted solely for FCCT members. Few copies of the Jakrapob talk are understood to have been sold because a manuscript of his talk circulated in Bangkok shortly after he was charged, and the video can be downloaded free from some websites.

In the comments’ section on ASTV Manager’s website, most posters expressed support for Laksana and praised her for the move.

One said: “Put them in jail for 99 years.”

Another asked the site to post a picture of Jonathan Head so the person could attack him if he or she ran into him.

======

This is interesting - sad, but perhaps not surprising. Hun Sen looks to be getting to the stage where he is a serious danger to decent relations with Thailand. He's not a pleasant individual, given he appears to sanction the slaying of political rivals or union leaders who "get in the way".

He seemed to get on very well with Thaksin, another ugly power-crazed and greedy leader quite happy to trash anything that gets in his way. There has been a lot of talk about them secretly plotting to set up joint ventures that would carve up the oil and gas concessions in the Gulf (currently in limbo cos they are in a zone claimed by both countries) as well as build five-star hotels on land claimed by both countries near Preah Vihear temple. I reckon Hen Sen's fairly obvious support for Thaksin in recent months, when the latter was trying to topple Abhisit's government, has greatly undermined relations with Bangkok.

People interested in Cambodia ought to read the most recent Global Witness report "Country for Sale: How Cambodia's Elite has captured the countries' extractive industries", which I think can be downloaded via the Net. It is a fascinating and very disturbing report, which suggests Hun Sen is on the verge of running a kleptocracy, and that he and the heads of the CPP have got an illegal and outrageous stranglehold on Cambodia's mining and oil prospects; millions being paid by foreign companies to get access to such prospects look to have been pocketed and not even declared on the national accounts.

Global Witness has been condemned by the Hun Sen government, but their researchers got a good reception when they presented this report at the FCCT not long ago. Global Witness says international donors have got to get real and seriously reassess whether they want to keep paying half of the Cambodian government's operating costs cos once the oil and gold deposits start producing, Hun Sen and his mates will be so wealthy they will be untouchable. The horse will have bolted.

Aside from Preah Vihear, which has been appallingly exploited by groups on both sides, there have also been some serious ruffles between the Thai foreign minister and Hun Sen. They may well hate each other. Hun Sen's claim for compensation at Preah Vihear seemed to be provocative. It was given short shift by Thailand, so the alleged posting of these troops is perhaps the latest response from the one-eyed PM in Takhmau (his home just outside Phnom Penh and he does have a glass eye).

Journos who knew him in the early 90s, say Hun Sen was lovely fellow in those days. Now you can go down to Sihanoukville and look at his huge mansion and look out towards Hun Sen Island, in the Gulf. He's turned into a real rogue, I think. One NGO leader I spoke to in Phnom Penh a few years back was convinced Hun Sen's personality had become so manic and psychotic they wondered if he was hooked on amphetamines.

But we need to acknowledge that, like Thaksin, he is a clever leader, because the Cambodian economy has done very well in recent years. But his brutal domination of the political scene has meant little justice for his people, and a "democracy" that is close to a sham. There are ugly reports of land grabbing all round the country and regular complaints about the poor being dumped in areas on the far outskirts of Phnom Penh with virtually no homes or services to make way for slum redevelopment schemes near the heart of Phnom Penh.

I really hope he doesn't continue in this manner, but everything suggests he will, and that his vow to retain power for many more years is quite possible.

Someone has posted a short video on YouTube about the 158 Hmong being held at Nong Khai. the name is NK Sample, I think.

The link is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmtY_s3NcMQ

It's a pretty powerful statement (and indictment) re treatment of the Hmong by Thailand and Laos.

These people have strong valid reasons for not being made to go back to Laos, even if it is to be resettled from there. This video shows why the Lao government can't be trusted, sadly.

They should be moved away from the border and allowed to be resettled via Bangkok.

And so close a door on this miserable saga, one of the worst in modern Thai history.

Photojourn,

interesting to read the reply, but I don't see anything in it other than the "spirited defence" of your own story and the fact it doesn't stack up with what MSF had to say at the press conference.

You claim to see a political or sensationalist act where virtually no-one else is saying that. Not one other report of the half dozen of more on this by the major wire agencies, the BBC, or two main English dailies here have taken the same angle. I say that is because Forum-Asia's remarks are wide of the mark. They aren't the main issue. Certainly not at this moment. You seem to have highlighted something that didn't fit the facts.

And you don't seem to recognise that circumstances change when NGOs take on projects in Asia in countries where there are human rights concerns. NGOs don't own projects, they go to areas to try to help alleviate problems and hope to make a difference.

I don't doubt that you raise an issue worthy of debate. But I get the feeling you haven't read the statement MSF put out, that you weren't at the press conference to hear what they had to say (or it didn't hit home for some reason), and you don't know the depth of this issue.

The sort of move MSF has made is something they are actually known for. They are prepared to take a stand where many other groups might not. There were probably a whole lot of other factors we are both not privy too in regard to the well-being of the Hmong at that camp. But when you get a situation such as the one described by Gilles yesterday - he talked about his local staff being bullied and increasingly intimidated by the Thai troops, how his group was asked various times to sack its Lao Hmong employees, how their clinic was shut down, camp residents forced to walk through the army's area, etc. His camp coordinator Angela (Malawian health worker for MSF) told of how a pregnant woman about to give birth had to be passed under barbed wire cos of restrictions enforced by the Thai military. There have been plenty of dramas at that camp and the circumstances have changed. MSF stuck there for several years but it looks like the Thai and Lao military are virtually taking the wheels off the car. With tacit support from the US, some say.

Cooperation by the Thai military appears to have been deliberately sabotaged. As I said earlier there appears to be a timetable to get these people to go back. It's being cranked up and has got to the point, where negotiations with the government to get a fairer system (independent screening of refugee claims, and transparency in regard to people being returned) were getting nowhere and MSF felt it had to raise the alarm.

You state emphatically that MSF is abandoning the Hmong when they say they will simply transfer the project to another group. We will have to wait to judge that. Their reputation is formidable and with good reason.

In the end it's perhaps a matter of trust as to how much you rate an NGO to do the right thing. But I get the feeling you don't know this group, or the Hmong issue. That's not meant to be personal, just gut feeling. I'm not sure you've thought it through carefully.

This move wasn't a dummy spit, as you suggested. It was debated for a long time - many many months - both here and with their bosses in Paris. Gilles has previously briefed key people in here and in Washington. He's a quietly spoken, thoughtful man who takes his job very seriously and would prefer, from what I've seen, not to make political acts.

But, when do you jump off a sinking ship? Do you let in hit ground, or do you raise the alarm in the hope that someone can help change its course?

I think they've tried to do the latter. And I rate them for it.

On a final note, the interesting thing is it looks like the minister overseeing this (foreign minister Kasit) may be prepared to ride this little storm out. There were indications today that he is also taking Laos on blind faith - just assuming that his ambassador in Vientiane can monitor the Hmong. And, that he is not aware of the depth of atrocities which the Lao regime is accused of. It looks like he may have been the Thai ambassador to Germany when a series of incidents occurred here that cast the Lao regime in an ugly light - atrocities in Laos (some filmed and revealed at the FCCT here, including the showing of a doco by German Rebecca Sommer called 'Hunted Like Animals').. as well as the slaying of Lao dissidents in Isaan by a Thai cop allegedly hired by the Lao government. That fellow was found with a hitlist of close to 20 names on it, including a Lao-American couple shot in broad daylight at a monastery in Nong Khai (Jan 2006, I think). Other suspected Lao dissidents were gunned down in Ubon and Udon. He told Udon police he was paid 100,000 baht a hit by the government of a neighboring country. The next day police were saying they'd been strictly ordered not to talk about that man's arrest.

Thing is, there was some hints today that Kasit and his advisers are unaware of the extent of such ugly acts and why some members of the foreign and local press here is so concerned about genuine refugees (such as the 158 at Nong Khai Immigration Centre) being returned.

Anyway, let's see how it unfolds. Thailand could move to repair it's stained reputation in regard to the Hmong, but I doubt this mess will be, especially when the government has so many other crises to attend to.

You could put other villains in this scenario - Hmong groups in the US, who have had a negative impact on their kin in Laos.. advising jungle Hmong to "keep fighting" for many years when they should perhaps have urged surrender and aim for a smarter, more peaceful, long-term solution. There have been some who profited from having Hmong in camps in Thailand; literally raised money on their behalf but kept all or part of it (Neo Hom was accused of this in late 90s and later I think; authorities in California pursued charges agst some of their people, who had links to Vang Pao). Some of these groups are seen to have encouraged many of Lao Hmong to come to Thailand and have at times exaggerated the scale of atrocities occurring in restricted areas such that reports aren't always reliable and easy to distinguish what is true or not.

They are also advising people in the camps to undertake destructive acts for publicity purposes - half the homes in the Phetchabun camp where burnt down at one point, and there was later a big protest march - mid-2008. The sad part is some of the Hmong groups in the US are regarded as quite toxic, and because they perhaps lacked a leader to unify them into one coherent group it has really split their cause and negated possibilities they might otherwise have achieved.

Anyway just another part for the puzzle.

Excuse me, but I get the feeling both the NGO fellow quoted and the journalist don't know what they're talking about.

MSF said today they were planning to hand the project over. They are not rushing out. Unicef has been enlisted to help find another NGO take over this project. There is no talk of MSF leaving and dumping these people.

Anyone who has followed this entire fiasco would know that they have had huge problems all along with the Thai military - problems that are getting worse and need to be properly revealed to the world.

Hmong advocates in the US who have been following this situation closely aren't jumping up and down screaming at MSF - which is one of the world's most highly regarded NGOs (one Nobel peace prize vs 4 for the International Red Cross, I think).

And as for no precedent for this type of behaviour.. it's happened several occasions in Burma and elsewhere. Arrangements were made in similar cases, such as when the Global Fund pulled out of Burma (not exactly the same situation but similar).

One can have sympathy for the notion raised the human rights leader is making. But I don't think he knows much about the situation (this bloke is HK or Singapore based - Chinese name?).

Most observers of the Hmong refugee crisis agree that the "real villains" are 1) Laos, 2) Thailand and 3) the US.

Laos is the country pushing the compulsory return of these people. And what has to be recognised is most are - as both Thailand and Laos say - economic migrants. Not real refugees. The proportion of true refugees is perhaps less than a third; perhaps just 1000 out of the 4,700 people remaining. Maybe just 500 people. That is the sort of figure suggested by Joe Davy, the top advocate based in Chicago (who should be hired to do the screening). MSF said at the press conference today that 180 people in the camp have bullet wounds, but some of those scars date back to the war (35 years old).

The others are poor Hmong who were duped by human traffickers. They paid to be trafficked to Thailand as a way to get out of poverty - they want a ride to the US by pretending to be "jungle Hmong" - like those who hid in the jungle for years and years after the VN war. Their situation is bad, but not even as appalling as the Rohingya, whose predicament at home and abroad has been even worse (something that top Thai law professor Vitit Muntabhorn conceded, I think, at an FCCT panel on the Rohingya last month).

Thailand is the "second" villain in this drama because they have refused to allow UNHCR access to the camp despite numerous requests. Thailand - or rather the Thai military - did that cos they have been paranoid for years about being overrun by refugees on most sides if they signed the UN convention on refugees or take a softer stance. There are strong arguments against this conservative mindset, but that is the prevailing view (born perhaps in the late 70s and 80s after the Khmer Rouge flooded across near Aranyaprathet, before the Karen were pushed across near Mae Sot in 1984).

Thing is, the Abhisit government has ridden to power with support of the military and they are probably afraid to challenge them too much. There is not a lot of sympathy for the Hmong among Thais; many are sick of these people crossing their borders, especially if they are freeloaders, as the bulk of the Phetchabun Hmong are seen to be. So there's not a lot of pressure for Abhisit to be more caring. In fact, the exact opposite.

MSF's head of mission Gilles Isard was asked today at the press conference if the crisis at Huay Nam Khao revealed that power clash between the Cabinet and the Army, but he deflected the question. It was quite obvious from his comments that the "educated elite" in the Democrats are embarrassed by these developments.

But any suggestion that this was a rushed or "sudden" move - as some Thai officials have tried to claim (and this question was put by the Bangkok Post reporter) - was rejected out of hand. In fact, I'm surprised the Post lady could even ask that as she was present at MSF's last press conference - 18 months earlier - when Gilles Isard appealed publicly for independent screening of the Hmong and said the way the Thai and Lao military were handling things was wrong.. that there appeared to be many hundreds of Hmong who were genuine refugees suffering great psychological stress because of the Thai-Lao agreement to ship them all home without independent screening.

There were several reasons for today's move by MSF. And one may have been recognition that the only way to change Thailand's ordinary stance on this is for the US to get involved. But Americans following this closely say the State Department made a high level decision a year or two ago that most of the Hmong at Phetchabun were not genuine refugees. So they are quietly backing the Thai policy and not really pushing for the Thais to be more fair. Not yet anyway. If there is a major riot or mass suicides, they may change their stance.

One of the reasons all these refugees took a punt in coming to Thailand was because previous resettlement programs by the US were done in such a sloppy manner and many people got a new life in the US (about 15,000) when they weren't genuine claimants. The same thing is happening in the Burma border camps; some 30,000 people have been resettled there, but there are lots of reports of wealthy Burmese buying their way into the camps, and of the Americans not really caring who they take (perhaps thinking that almost anyone from Burma has a right to be a refugee); that stance encourages corruption and more non-refugees to fill the positions in Mae La and other camps left by those who flew out.

Roger Warner, an American author who wrote a terrific book about the "secret war" in Laos (Shooting at the Moon), published an interesting piece in the Huffington Post website recently that "outed" the American ambassador in Bangkok (Eric Johns) as a key player who has let this situation deteriorate. Warner claims Johns is a snob who doesn't care about the refugees; he used the word "pompous". And there is some sympathy for that allegation.

The thing is, the US were the ones who got the Hmong into their fight with the commies, and many in the US - such as thousands of Vietnam war veterans and the quarter of a million Hmong resettled there - believe they OWE to the true jungle Hmong who were left behind and pummelled horribly after the US flew out of Long Cheng in the mid-70s. Christopher Robbins in his book "The Ravens" claims that 100,000 Hmong were killed after the US pulled out, although it's hard to know how fair that figure is.

Anyway, just some background.

You see, what has been happening in Phetchabun is the Thai military are ramping up the pressure - hassling MSF's staff (30 Lao Hmong and 30 Thai Hmong); closing the MSF clinic with no warning; forcing all camp residents to go through the military area to get their food or medical supplies.. etc etc.

This is all overseen by the Thai Army's psychological operations unit from Phitsanulok, which is working with Lao army officials in breaking the camp's most influential leaders - by jailing them and denying them food, plus other disgusting tactics.. and all the time trying to meet Laos' deadline for returning the Hmong to their homeland. That deadline is the SEA Games. The socialist regime decided it wanted this "problem" resolved by the end of the year prior to the big sporting event (so they wouldn't face any boycotts, and God knows what other silly reasons; the SEA Games appears to be a big deal for this tiny little state).

There is a timetable for "rushing" these people back to Laos, and the disappointing thing is it's going ahead regardless, because the Thai Army is able to do its dirty work largely because Huay Nam Khao is miles from anywhere. There ain't no media up there to report on what's going on. There's only MSF and they are thoroughly sick of what the Thai and Lao army people are doing. Sadly, the decent people in the Thai government haven't had the balls or confidence to stop this ugly business.

And the truth is, some of the most desperate Hmong who most deserve to get refugee status - who are truly terrified about being returned cos they are on a hitlist or face years in a squalid sh-thole of a jail, aren't even in Huay Nam Khao. They've already fled and are living in other parts of Thailand, even if it's only in the jungle. And there are allegedly hundreds who have fled to jungle from this camp.

Some 2,000 people have already been returned and thousands more are set to go. Laura Xiong, another Hmong advocate, based in Nebraska, claims the Thais have buses planned for returns on a regular basis until September. So this whole messy situation was building to a head.

I honestly reckon it's far better MSF exposed the scummy ways the Thai and Lao military have been behaving, cos they are really the only ones who can voice what is going on; they have the integrity and a record almost second to none. and you can see by the way Gilles (Frenchman) has handled this business that it has been a torment and not a decision he entered into lightly. He said that at the press conference.

Dozens of letters to the editors by Hmong advocates in the US have fallen on deaf ears. The battle has already been lost, despite continuing moves to rouse the fat Congressmen in Washington to do the right thing - push Hillary Clinton to do something.

Sorry for going on, but I reckon the article Mr LeFevre has written and the comments by the human rights are wide of the mark. They don't know the situation well enough. Those human rights experts have said nothing for the past few years and now they come out for a bleat. On the other hand, Human Rights Watch has monitored this business closely. I doubt very much if they will come out and make such remarks.

Anyway, let's see how it plays out.

I don't work for MSF but I've followed this situation closely. They don't deserve to be sh-tbagged for taking a gutsy step that was taken reluctantly but which, I believe, is much warranted.

So where are the Norway and American Embassies on this ? It has been over 2 weeks. Autopsy results can be determined in a matter of hours. ( 1 was cremated after autopsy, where are the results?) No news indicates maleficence on someones part. Do the grieving parents have to hire lawyers and private investigators to find information on how and why their children were killed ! This is a disgrace. I would suggest an email campaign to the embassies here and the home countries after all tourists are still going to the island and the guesthouse is still open for business. "we are in contact with the family" just does not cut it with me. Daily updates from the embassy are in order. Transparency is the key word today.

I think we need to bear in mind this is a major crisis for Phi Phi, an island whose income is derived from tourism.. This story got a lot of interest via CNN and other outlets.

My guess is the authorities have tried to slow or stop any release of information as much as possible. And the small handful of people who may have an insight into this have been told to say nothing literally for a few weeks till things cool down.

Phuketwan.com was set up by a very experienced Aust reporter (Alan Morison); I reckon it's worth checking their site more than the Phuket Gazette, which has lost a fairly capable editor (Chris Husted). The Phuket Post is only a small newspaper but it has an experienced journo, on the other hand I get the impression he's been instructed not to write "negative" news.

Thing is these people and other reporters in Bangkok won't forget about this case. It's just a matter of them having something to write at present. There is probably only a few cops and maybe one or two doctors who can talk about this case and it looks like they're saying 'we don't know till we get the test results back' and they've claimed that's gonna take a month. Maybe a deliberate ploy so the media loses interest and gets focused on the containers off Sattahip, etc.

Another problem is the partners or friends of the deceased have gone back home overseas and thus aren't around to update reporters. Embassies will report to them, not to the press, and there's a fair chance they haven't got conclusive evidence either.

If you read the stories on the Phuketwan site and the stuff on this thread it's tough to make an educated guess as to what happened. It looks like poisoning yet the doctor thought it was something they drank. The American boyfriend of one lady rejected that out of hand so it's still hard to work out what killed them.

The interesting thing for me was the drinking culture on the island at night; people walking round with buckets getting plastered. You can see perhaps why the doctor that Phuketwan interviewed thought that was a possible explanation.

Think we're just gonna have to be patient with this one, unless some foreign cop goes down and is prepared to quietly give some insight into what may have occurred.

The government is set to sell 2 billion tonnes of milled rice from its stockpiles to 13-15 winning exporters at an average of 15,000 baht per tonne.

According to Commerce Minister Porntiva Nakasai, results of the rice sales would be submitted soon to the Cabinet for acknowledgement to prevent a repeat of the dispute that happened with the proposed auction sale of mortgaged corn.

The commerce minister was reportedly locked in a clash with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva at Wednesday's cabinet meeting, after the premier put the brakes on the ministry's proposal to auction 449,000 tonnes of field corn from the mortgage stock worth more than 2 billion baht for fear of losses.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...-rice-stockpile

-- Bangkok Post 15/05/09

Can't see how they possibly have 2 billion tonnes of milled rice. Figure should be 2 million, I suspect.

In regards to the sale, the Democrats do have to tackle the inflated prices offered to farmers by their rivals (now Pheu or Peua Thai, depending on what paper you read).. they just need to do it cleverly for political reasons.

Colin's death is sad, tragic. The most insightful entry here was post no 63 by Amja, who says he got to know him over a month or two in Suan Phlu. I met him also briefly (visiting the IDC) two years ago and talked to various people re his situation a number of times. I think the key thing is he was stubborn. And he didn't have anything to return to, in terms of family.

Davidyo in post 60 mentions that both governments stuffed up. I'm inclined to agree. The Thais sent him to the mental health hospital (Thonburi?) to check his sanity and he was allegedly found to be sane, as Amja also thought. However, I think his position bordered on mental illness because I believe you need your head read if you think you can survive in a cell with 50 to 100 North Koreans (often fighting, he said) for any period of time.

The Thais, fairly remarkably, didn't force him to go. Maybe they should have. Thing is, that then raises the prospect of whether you have to drug and forcibly accompany him on a long flight to Oz; many they could see that he would fight that and realised if that happened he would never stand a chance of returning to this part of the world (more on that shortly).

I think Colin did have a grudge with embassy officials, sadly. They did want to help but they are also incredibly busy. One told of Colin just rolling over when he came to see him. But as one prison visits lady said, there was a big hole in Colin's argument. I think his main fear was not being able to get back to this part of the world. He feared not being able to get ID documents (not a fully rational fear, in my mind), because he didn't have a bank account, or a home, a driver's licence, or perhaps, relatives to swear for him. That process may have been a major $hitfight, in his mind.

And he may have also feared having to repay the cost of sending him home. He owed at least 100,000 baht to the embassy, I believe, for the cost of his detention and other things. This obviously meant having to work in Aust to pay that debt off - he appeared to have reluctance to face that hurdle as well. I think he envisaged getting stuck in Oz trying to find work and it could end up taking years to get back; that there would be some hurdle to stop him ever getting a passport (because he served time here in Thailand, etc). He didn't appear to have much faith in our bureaucracy. He also said he hated Australians; that all the Aussies he met in Pattaya he found obnoxious.

In regard to the fight with the bargirl in Pattaya; she was stabbed, although not that seriously injured as far as I'm aware. I don't know who grabbed the knife first, but that drama obviously had serious ramifications for him.

In regard to his previous work: there was no mention that there was any security concern. I think his work here was for a US firm that did work with the expressways or expressway tolls. He worked on their computer system, I believe. (And ironically you would think his ability on computers should actually give him slightly better work prospects.. on the other hand, he was 61, and who employs someone of that age, you might say? He probably realised that).

Looking back, I wonder about the legality of Australia enforcing a person to return home in such a situation. On the other hand, he had no money. Do you allow him to go to HK or Phnom Penh or KL when he has nothing in his pocket?

If he'd sat back and looked at his situation calmly, he should've had the sense to see going home quietly was by far his best option.

The fellow in Klong Prem - Nicholas Zemlianski - has been there about 20 years I believe. He had a couple of strokes last year and is in declining health, cared for by prison doc known as Dr John. One prison visits lady thinks he has family in Melbourne (but perhaps it's a sister cos people can't find the same surname, which is of Russian extraction, in the phone book). On the other hand sending him home, which is surely warranted (and he allegedly has a pardon application in with the K that is seen as a "strong" case).. if he wants to go. But I'm told he'd need to be escorted by two guards, that they'd have to return here, and everyone fly down and back business class. I was told the cost would be $120,000 Aust. And he'd have to repay that debt (presumably the govt would write it off when he dies, which may not be far away).

But maybe Colin also had an insight of the costs of being forcibly returned. That he might also face that sort of ludicrious bill and NEVER get the chance to come back to this part of the world, which he appears to have much preferred.

Anyway, when I think of that song "I Still Call Australia Home" by Peter Allen, I sometimes think of Colin, because he was the antithesis of all that guff you get about it being the greatest country on earth (which it may well be in a range of many ways such as clean beaches, environment, good friendly people, a down-to-earth society that values the ordinary man; whatever). Only it is crap for some, and bullshit in other ways; it seems rough-edged socially and perhaps a less caring society now I've lived up here for a decade or so. In Colin's eyes the attitudes of Aussie tourists he met in Sin City were offensive .. not that you'd want to call the visitors there indicative of Aussies in general (God forbid).

His death (Dec 28) was only a few days after the first story appeared in The Age about his case; although I've yet to find out if he was even told about that. In March 2007, he had passed a message via Jesuit people who monitor prisoners at Suan Phlu that he didn't want his case reported in the papers here; perhaps he hoped he might somehow be released and that any attention wouldn't help. Tragically, he had allegedly written to papers about his case, but there is no indication anything ever came of that.

His death was suspected suicide, I believe, from a possible overdose of prescription drugs. DFAT didn't say that, probably because privacy laws have become stupidly onerous. And they probably have a policy that tries to prevent family members from being offended (ironically). Christmas is apparently a bad time for suicides.

When you hear about deaths like these you wonder what more you could have done. And whether solutions could have been created slightly outside stiff bureaucratic rules. I think people at the embassy did care about him but they weren't sure how to help, partly cos he himself thwarted what was probably best for him (going home).

Anyway, just some insights into his case. I don't think he died unloved or not thought of, but he didn't make it easy for people to help him, very very sadly.

K

My english in not good, some people insult me for that.....everyday.

If they use their good english for find the real news and the fake news like me is better for all.

Taksin is in SINGAPORE...use internet dont loose you time whit me.

ciao

Are you saying that Thaksin ave been in Singapore for the last week and you have sources that prove that? Bring 'em then?

The more accurate info we can get, the better...

my source is irc...internet relay chat...you can find all you want...and beliveme many time they said all the true about something then the newspaper...

many times i see that.

Use internet is not only look the 1st page of google.....

Also what you think is true in your post before...never had a confirmation but you belive "the nation " like gold...

Must be true then, people on the internet wouldn't lie.

less then the news paper....so do you find this news somewere or not?

Show to me the news in the japan site...were is it????????????

do you find this journalist or not?

i had show to you that is a fake....

what do you want more?

take care

Actually, there are a couple of Indians where I work in Bangkok and they have said Thaksin has been in New Delhi lately. There have allegedly been reports in the Indian newspapers about this - I haven't seen any (would love to). I suspect there is a far stronger case of him being there than Singapore.

In terms of questioning if this story is true. It's perhaps understandable given the sort of tricks Thaks and his people have employed before.. the story about the Bahaman government being happy to have him live there was a total fabrication, I believe. And was exposed as such. The Nation covered that (Post also, I think). However in this case, I have the feeling Asahi (or Asahi Shimbun) had or used to have an office in one of The Nation buildings.

In terms of why Oceano couldn't find the story in a search, there are probably a number of reasons for that, including that newspaper groups often don't do that till several days after the story has run.

It just shows you how everything about this man is like a mirage - lies, distortion, etc - it's a game of Chinese mirrors with him. Although we're getting more and more info that suggests that The Nation story about him a few weeks back that he was down to his last 500 million USD may be close to the truth. There has been a lot of comment from journalists here that he has sent very little dough to Pheu Thai and red shirts recently. That is probably one of the reasons for the political calm. Thing is, I think he still wants to rock the boat, because he has his big assets case starting in March (on whether the 2-billion USD 'frozen' by the govt should be confiscated), so his people are lobbying Asean to say the government is illegitimate, etc.

The sad part is Abhisit has run like a child from the Rohingyas' scandal, and you get the feeling he'll play the same tricks in regard to prosecutions of the PAD ..Pravit wrote a column in The Nation on Tuesday, I think, talking about the disparity between Abhisit's words and his actions, and that's could be the key question of his time in power. Well educated, eloquent, but hollow and without the balls to take a gutsy stand. The Rohingyas' case is making him look like a monkey, if you read the latest BBC report. And he's completely ignored very strong concerns about Hmong "refugees" - dozens of whom reportedly have bullet wounds (perhaps the best evidence of persecution by the Lao regime) .. saying they will return the 5000 in Phetchabun by May. Truth is they have major concerns re illegal migrants being trafficked here, but the way they have dealt with all aspects of this for years is hopeless, sadly. And aside from the 500 Rohingya who may have drowned after allegedly being towed out to sea, there are probably hundreds more suffering untold misery all around the country.

Meanwhile, all Thaksin does is moan about the cost of having to live in expensive hotels because he's on the run from the law for a series of allegations that most people know have substance. You have to think, in the end, he is one very self-centred piece of trash, who could use a few years in a Rohingyan vessel to bring him down to a level where he's human again.

Do we actually know whether any journalist has bothered trying to find out from the British authorities if the assets have been frozen or not? You'd think that if asked, even if they would not give a concrete yea or nay, the very least they would say might be something along the lines of, "We cannot comment on individual cases". I've not read anything of that here yet, just that "London hasn't commented on rumours" (if they did comment on all rumours in the press without being asked first, they'd never get any real work done).

======

At a recent end of year event for foreign correspondents, here in Bangkok, one or two said they'd checked into the (Arab website) report of 4.2 billion being frozen in the UK and that it was denied or rejected. That is a huge amount of money and the lack of anything about it in the British press makes it highly unlikely that such an incident occurred.

However, the Nation reporter had a source who spoke about large sums in the Gulf area, in Swiss banks and a smaller amount (Bt508,000?) frozen in the UK (perhaps under name of Phairoj P).

The reason the Nation may have thought there was a serious chance of such a big amount being frozen in the UK may be the fact there was a strong rumour at the time Thaksin's visa was cancelled, that the reason was UK officials were looking into dubious financial transactions linked to the sale of Manchester City. It looks like they suspected Thaksin used that opportunity to bring in "hot money". That info came via a top British reporter here, assumed to have good contacts back in the UK, and I think The Nation has referred to it once or twice already. But the Brits have never said anything about freezing any of Thaksin's money.

It's worth remembering there were reports of money thought to be Thaksin's being frozen in Swiss banks the previous year, and Thaksin allegedly "angry" over being "misquoted" by a Swiss newspaper about that. So there has been "smoke" from this hot little issue for a while you could say.

=================

UK revokes former Thai PM's visa

BBC 8-11-08

The British government has revoked the visas of the former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife.

An e-mail sent to airlines from the British embassy in Bangkok told them not to allow the couple to board flights to Britain.

Mr Thaksin was deposed in a military coup in 2006, and travelled to Britain.

He has since been convicted by a Thai court on corruption charges and sentenced in absentia to two years. His wife faces three years for tax evasion.

A Thai foreign ministry official told the Reuters news agency: "The foreign ministry has checked the reports with British authorities and they have confirmed that the visas were revoked."

Mr Thaksin is thought to be travelling in East Asia - a week ago he made a telephone address to more than 60,000 supporters packed into a Bangkok sports stadium.

Multiple charges

For much of the past two years Mr Thaksin and his family have lived in the UK.

He has not only invested in expensive properties here but also bought Manchester City Football Club, which he sold in August.

Following the withdrawal of their visas Mr Thaksin and his wife will now be forced to find a new home.

The cases against Thaksin include corruption charges related to the purchase of state land by his wife, abuses of power over government money, concealing assets and tax evasion.

The former leader retains a lot of support in rural areas of Thailand, but also has many detractors who would like nothing more than to see him in jail.

Whatever motivated London, it may be big and scary

By Tulsathit Taptim

The Nation On Sunday November 9, 2008

The biggest question is why. For all the uncertainties surrounding Thaksin Shinawatra's immediate future following his visa cancellation by Britain, what baffles everyone most is the real motive of the country praised by the man himself as democratically very mature.

Why, all of a sudden, did London slam the door on Thaksin and make him suffer the humiliation of a criminal-cum-political-refugee with no place to live?

The British Embassy would not comment. In fact, the cancellation of Thaksin's and his wife's visas became known through other channels, and embassy insiders said the embassy would issue statements only if it was necessary to respond to reaction from Thaksin or related parties.

So speculation was rife yesterday. Some observers pointed to his and his wife's criminal convictions, but then again, wasn't the "credibility" of the Thai courts the contentious point here? So why was London so quick to jump to the conclusion that the courts were credible when Thaksin hasn't even had a chance to put up a decent asylum fight yet?

Some pointed to the "winning-ugly" court ruling on the Ratchadaphisek land case, a verdict that was based purely on three indisputable facts: Thaksin "was prime minister" when his wife "bought" the land, and that "broke" Thai law. The court ignored charges of corruption and conspiracy to reap profits, but this means Thaksin was left with no grounds to challenge the ruling.

Others believe the visa cancellations were prompted more by political and diplomatic concerns. Some airline sources said that London might have been alarmed by the increasingly apparent tendency of Thaksin to use Britain as a staging ground to launch political activities against his opponents in Thailand. He triggered a major controversy last week by addressing tens of thousands of supporters through a long-distance phone-in from Hong Kong.

But why the rather rude manner? Yes, Thaksin could have been politely told to leave quietly for not acting like a real persecuted refugee, but there would have been a risk of him mounting a legal campaign in a bid to stay on. Such a campaign, of course, could turn politically and diplomatically very nasty for Britain.

One airline source went further, saying the highly unusual way of treating someone who had been allowed to live a luxurious life and buy a premium soccer club had been caused by "perhaps something we don't know". Bluntly put, have the British authorities smelt some hanky-panky deals? To start with, Thaksin bought Manchester City with money he never reported having (while he was in Thailand and had to declare his assets).

Whatever the reason, however, it must be strong enough to outweigh the obvious negatives this shocking visa move carries.

One thing is clear: Thaksin is fast going from a divisive political figure in his homeland to an international hot potato.

====

Thaksin says Swiss money frozen

BangkokPost.com from news agency reports 6-9-07

Ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra says his Swiss bank accounts had been frozen, and angrily said the country's vaunted banking secrecy was a thing of the past.

Swiss newspaper Mittelland Zeitung quoted Thaksin in advance extracts from an interview scheduled for publication on Sept 16 that Swiss banks had frozen some of his money and that he would be suing them "because my money is clean".

"Good old bank secrecy is no more. Absolute discretion is a thing of the past," he said.

The Swiss embassy in Bangkok and a member of the Thai anti-graft panel set up to investigate allegations of corruption against him said they had no idea what Thaksin was talking about as there had been no requests for such action.

"This could be a tactic to win newspaper space," Reuters news agency quoted Jaruvan Maintaka, a member of the Asset Scrutiny Committee (ASC) set up after last September's military coup as saying. "We know nothing about it since we didn't do it."

The Swiss embassy in Bangkok said no financial crime treaties existed between the two countries, making it very hard for Thai authorities to make any formal request to freeze assets.

Furthermore, Swiss authorities would never contemplate action until solid evidence had come to light against Thaksin and he had been found guilty, embassy official Jacques Lauer said.

"There's nothing. There's been no evidence and we have not been approached in any way by the authorities," he said.

Graft investigators have frozen $1.5 billion in Thaksin's Thailand bank accounts and have issued arrest warrants for "official misconduct" in the Ratchadaphisek land scandal that involves his wife, and in connection with a share deal.

Thaksin defended himself and his family against allegations of corruption. "Neither my family nor I has done anything illegal. It is defamation," he told the Swiss newspaper.

He also criticised the military government's record in office. "The hopes of the country's poor for a better life have been shattered," Thaksin said.

Thaksin ruled out a return to his home country in the short term. He is living in exile in Britain, where he has bought Manchester City soccer club for 81 million pounds ($160 million).

Thaksin goes into Swiss reverse

Bangkok Post 7-9-07

Ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra did not threaten to sue Swiss banks for freezing his accounts in Switzerland because he does not have any, his chief spokesman said on Thursday.

Thaksin had been misquoted and his comments taken out of context by Swiss newspaper Mittelland Zeitung, said his lawyer and voluble spokesman, Noppadol Pattama.

"What he meant was his bank accounts in Thailand, not in Switzerland. The newspaper must have misreported what he said," the lawyer told the news agency Reuters.

The paper quoted Thaksin in extracts from an interview scheduled for publication on Sept. 16 that Swiss banks had frozen some of his money and that he would be suing them "because my money is clean".

"Good old bank secrecy is no more. Absolute discretion is a thing of the past," he said.

A second spokesman, Tim Bell, who is based in London, said the comments had been in answer only to a question about his thoughts on the state of Swiss banking.

"He doesn't have any Swiss bank accounts and therefore he doesn't have any that can be frozen," Bell said.

Graft investigators have frozen $1.5 billion in Thaksin's bank accounts in Thailand and have issued arrest warrants for "official misconduct" in a Bangkok land deal and in connection with a share deal.

Thaksin is already suing the Assets Scrutiny Committee, set up after last year's coup to investigate alleged corruption, demanding compensation for damage caused by the freezing of his assets.

The Swiss embassy in Bangkok said no financial crime treaties existed between the two countries, making it very hard for Thai authorities to make any formal request to freeze assets.

Furthermore, Swiss authorities would never contemplate action until solid evidence had come to light against Thaksin and he had been found guilty, embassy official Jacques Lauer said.

Thaksin defended himself and his family against allegations of corruption. "Neither my family nor I has done anything illegal."

==========

People commenting on this report have done fairly well. I think it probably was put together fairly quickly; let's remember that there was a hearing on Christmas Day (when this appears to have been written) about the $2 billion frozen here in Thai banks with the judges ruling that Thaksin couldn't have any further extension of time.. the case would go ahead in late March, I think. That was a good ruling, in my books. I think the courts have been very generous in regard to the former PM and his missus, but they should need act with haste to get back whatever they can of his ill-gotten gains ASAP.

The Nation report had one very obvious error, as several people have noted, which should have been checked and not included. I'm referring to the 4.2 billion listed as frozen by the Arabian website. That is a shame, because the rest of the info is really worth having out in the public arena and for people to consider (and maybe add to). It won't help the writer's reputation, as a number of foreign correspondents checked and noted that the Arabian website report was incorrect. I think some of them are also unimpressed by some columns written by the same writer which have been torn to shreds by people such as Bangkok Pundit. There's an anti-farang edge at work here and a wee bit of the same sort of recklessness that Thaksin displayed when he was PM.

Nonetheless, this writer does get it together occasionally. He has a forthright readable style which is really good when he's on track. And he obviously has some ok contacts in a whole range of areas. The "international financier" he has quoted here is a very valuable contact, I would imagine.

A couple of things to bear in mind: it looks like certain transactions in or to the UK were frozen or red-flagged, as one person has noted. It's a tricky business because we're talking about front companies, nominees such as "Phairoj P" mentioned in the story.. but the figure 4.2 billion should just be disregarded, I think. As others have said, the writer - any writer - getting into this area, is groping in the dark and heavily reliant on whoever they can get with whatever knowledge of what Thaksin may be doing with his personal assets. Those sorts of sources are probably rare and very wary of being identified, although I'm a firm believer that the truth always gets out, like a bubble of air rising to the surface of a pool.

Thing is, now that Korn is finance minister (and possibly a man with far greater capacity than Thaksin in terms of doing LEGAL business deals) they need to get AMLO, the anti money laundering office - or someone they can trust in that unit - to really pursue these money trails aggressively here and abroad. Give them a US$5-10 million and really set the dogs on this trail. Reason being, there is serious potential that the former PM did get away with hundreds of millions, if not a billion or two. They has been gossip for years about directors of companies that got debt haircuts from the TAMC (Thai Asset Management Corp) were asked for significant "donations" before debt write-downs were approved. Sometimes those debt writedowns were staggeringly generous.

The Asset Scrutiny Committee that probed many dubious deals by his governments was headed by respected judges, senators, a gutsy auditor general, etc. They estimate that the highly suspect tax deal which favoured AIS, the Thaksin family's mobile phone company, was worth US$2 billion alone (about the same amount that is frozen here). And heaven knows, it looks like people in his governments made a mint out of a giant range of other dubious deals.. the amount of graft from the new airport - said to be worth 20 to 33 per cent upfront of every contractor that worked there - was estimated at more than half a billion.

So, I think the story is actually more important than the one glaring error it contains, partly cos it puts the focus back on criminality that looks to have gone on here for many years. I really hope the police and DSI (Dept of Special Investigation) can be reinvigorated under the Democrats, because they were made into absolute patsies under the Thaksin governments and his nominee regimes this year. If they had done their job properly in the 90s you wouldn't have people such as Thaksin becoming prime minister, because corporate high-fliers of such woeful morality should really be weeded out and properly investigated long before. I think doubts about his asset statements existed since 1997..

Anyway, we now have the Abhisit-Newin-and-friends coalition. Let's hope it survives whatever the red shirts throw their way over the new few days and no more nasty episodes on New Year. Pray that they can survive a few sets of rapids, cos Thailand really needs some stability.

-- Preah Vihear has witnessed its fair share of bloodshed.

The Khmer Rouge occupied the site for years, and rusting artillery pieces can still be found lying amid the ruins.

In June 1979, Thai soldiers forced 45,000 refugees from Pol Pot's "Killing Fields" to descend the heavily mined escarpment back into Cambodia.

"Several thousand died, either shot by Thai soldiers to prevent them trying to cross back, or blown up in the minefields," British historian Philip Short wrote in a seminal biography of Pol Pot.

That is a notorious incident from the post Khmer Rouge era, when Thailand was flooded with refugees (Site 2 camp near Aranyaprathet housed up to 250,000 I believe). William Shawcross reported it in his book "The Quality of Mercy" long before Philip Short's biography.

The interesting thing is who the Thai generals were at that time. I've got a feeling Sanan was around at time and may have been involved. But that may not be correct.

I still suspect Thaksin may have a hand in this latest flare-up (as opposed to blue bloods wanting a different reason to topple the govt), and sad thing is it looks to have done what was desired - draw attention from the main game in Bangkok.

Sounds like somebody is trying to heat up the situation by moving Thai soldiers closer to the Temple. What they want to achieve is unclear. I guess weaken the government, but usually a war situation or external crisis strengthens whoever is in charge so it doesn't make any sense to me. TIT, I guess.

I suspect you're right. I'd put money on it being a deliberate distraction. Reason: The Somchai government is drawing a lot of flak over the clashes last Tuesday - 2 dead 478 injured. It was a long day of chaos beamed to every corner of the globe. And I think it's become more clear in the days since the government pushed too hard. Didn't even give the protesters a five or 10-minute warning re the use of teargas. The Army chief went very close to saying Somchai should "take responsibility" - as they repeatedly say - and stand down.

The dramas on October 7 hit tourist arrivals, yet again, and the local economy; very little lift in the SET today, despite big jumps in the US and elsewhere. The fatalities (two) now look to have been caused by the use of explosive teargas canisters, so authorities are directly to blame.. Dr Pornthip has come out saying the police were pushed to act by the politicians further up the food chain.. Somchai came back from a meeting with His Majesty the King looking very grim.. and there was much speculation re the House being dissolved. Surely, only the Rich One in London is stalling things. On Monday, the Queen attended the funeral of the young woman killed last Tuesday by one of those explosive teargas canisters. These are all quite strong signals.

Anand has today come out and said the one person who can defuse the entire situation is Thaksin. In fact, there are probably 300 people who can do that - MPs in the government coalition, the faceless Yes Men who take his money. And that includes the little Eel from Suphan Buri. On the other hand many of these people are known for selling their soul; I think their constituents know what they're like.

Given these circumstances, I reckon it's a classic Thaksin play to drum up this distraction, particularly when they have the new Foreign minister there in Phnom Penh to whisper in Hun Sen's ear: Don't worry, we just need a little sideshow for domestic purposes.

In fact, Hun Sen played a similar game just before he was elected a couple of months ago. The sad thing is these pathetic games have an impact in both nations and widely abroad. Some prominent Thai needs to be standing up and saying they have no place in Preah Vihear because the International Court has ruled on that issue, in the early 60s.

The sooner Thailand gets a credible body formed with Phnom Penh to carefully negotiate an agreed boundary, the better. Indeed, it seems like a gross indictment of recent administrations that they have similar problems on major sections of the Lao and Burma borders also. I can't help feeling they need another Surayud government - elected preferably (not likely to happen, I know) - but just someone mature and sensible; to help resolve these problems that linger like mines under the surface. Another big one is reforming the police. Heaven knows when that will happen if they re-elect Thaksin's mob (Puea Thai in the next poll?)

Sometimes it's tempting to say "som nom na" to all the Northerners and Northeasterners who voted for People Power and this gangster government; serves you right for electing these grubs. It's more complex than that, of course, but you really do wonder: Are people in Isaan going to learn anything from the divide and the clashes in recent times? Has there been enough drama to make them want to change who they vote for? Or are the MPs in the North and Northeast gonna change direction? Frankly, they seem to act like lemmings who rush to their chosen chair just as the music stops. The sole solution may be to empty Thaksin's war chest. Confiscate every zac they can.

But maybe Abhisit needs to gets some foothold in the Northeast and do everything he can to stop looking like a toff. He is very capable and charming, no doubt, but he needs clusters of support in TRT or PPP's traditional strongholds. Maybe he needs to get on the Lao khao with Newin and start walking under a few elephants... get himself a mia noi out in Ubon; get photographed with young singers in a shower in Khon Kaen motel .. ('cuse me, went into NotTheNation mode).

Back to the Cambodian border crisis: It would be interesting as to whether the whole situation is being played up, even by Hun Sen, who is reportedly very close to Thaksin. What's the chances the Rich One gave him a call and said 'Play it up for 24 to 48 hours'? The trouble in this part of the world is almost every country is run by power-hungry mongrels.

Here endeth the lesson.

I have something that works for me in Taxi's - I tell them in Thai that " please slow down, i am in no hurry to proceed to the next life, this one is already quite good." Does the trick and puts a smile on their face.

That could be a very handy saying to know. Any chance of you (or another reader) writing it down the Thai words phonetically for us to try to remember?

In regard to Thaksin having bought a property overlooking Sydney Harbour, I'm not sure that actually occurred. It was widely reported a year or more ago that he was down there looking - probably not only at property, but no doubt checking the lie of the land should he want to relocate there; and that probably included assessing his options in terms of immigration laws and whether an Australian government might, in the future, be tempted to extradite him to Bangkok, or The Hague, perhaps, should he be indicted for serious crimes such as ordering police to undertake extrajudicial killings - and execute several thousand suspected drug dealers during the so-called War on Drugs in early 2003, gross corruption, etc.

I suspect that Britain is slightly further away and has a stronger record of being a haven for people seeking asylum. Sydney could actually be a little too close to home, given he appears to want to fight the extensive (and I believe, very credible) list of corruption charges levelled at him quite vigorously through his various proxies - Samak, Somchai, Yaowapha, the entire Cabinet.. And, it has been a trait of his super-rich, clever, vain manipulator to try to mask some of his intentions and he probably already has fallback positions such as a lavish flat he reportedly owns in Hong Kong. However, you wonder how much rope Beijing would allow him, if for example, they discovered he was actively funding the undermining of a "rival" administration in Bangkok. It's quite possible the Chinese might want put the clamps on him more seriously - if he was deemed to act counter to China's national interests - than the Brits, who surely already know he's pulling the strings with the current government. Indeed, there is talk of taped phone calls to senior government people here indicating exactly that - in clear breach of his five-year ban from politics.. taped at both ends of the line probably. Given the dramas of Oct 7, it's obvious that the question of granting Thaksin asylum is a can of worms, because it's possible the divisions here will get worse and civil unrest continue. Just in terms of his security, you have to think, he might just feel a bit more secure in London; indoors and slightly less of a target should anyone want to do something radical to try to end the turmoil he is probably seen to be generating here.

Thaksin has also suggested wanting to establish a big development in Cambodia, in Koh Kong, which would be something that Hun Sen might want to ponder deeply, as it may not be so wise if the yellow shirts get the reins next year (something that looks unlikely at present, but quite possible). Relations with Phnom Penh have deteriorated badly this year and could become a real mess unless "border issues" are managed carefully by people or an entity respected on both sides. Having Thaksin living just across the border, playing golf and attending parties with the likes of Kamnan Poh and Vatana Asavahame, could give Cambodia a mafioso image that tops Spain's Costa del Crime. It could seriously undermine bilateral relations; although Thaksin and Hun Sen are probably aware of that he would have to fly a little under the radar - and keep a low profile, particularly if they hope to form companies for joint development of oil and gas reserves in contested areas in the Gulf, as has been mooted.

Wherever he settles, there is the chance of ongoing problems, given the charges Thaksin faces and his current desire to quash or negate them as much as possible (by amending the constitution, having people in the DSI to water down or sink possible charges, etc). You do have to marvel at his nerve, however; to think he has the capacity to convince half the Thai population to back amendments to the charter that would negate the charges he faces (among other "unjustices" perpetrated by the coup-makers). It's extraordinary.

I would have thought the courts and the EC need to be a lot more vigorous in pursuing Mr T, People Power. And surely judges - or rather, his "elite" rivals - should be quietly targeting seizure of the USD 2 billion frozen in his accounts, simply to end the bankrolling of UDD and other groups that could act in aggressive and divisive ways. One can't help feeling the lethargic pace of justice in this country is bringing it down.. distracting the Thai people from the far more disturbing global financial and environmental crises; that Thais need to confront energetically.

Finally, in regard to passports, I'm pretty sure there were media reports a number of months ago indicting he had two or more - a normal one, plus his diplomatic passport. The interesting thing is where the Brits impose travel restrictions on him or his family for any reason.