Soneva

That's the right thing to do. Expect the worst and have a plan B.

So, I will likely continue with tourist visas for a period of time.

One poster above suggested occasionally going somewhere on vacation and then coming back with a 30 day visa exempt entry. Would that be advisable? i.e. would that interrupt they cycle of repeated SETVs, and then reduce the risk of scrutiny?

I know that I am breaking no laws, because each of my entries actually does fit the exact description of what a tourist would be able to do. I stay here in my family’s home, also stay in hotels and resorts throughout Thailand, and used foreign sourced money from ATM withdrawals and foreign credit cards to pay for things.

I have never received one baht in compensation for any kind of employment in Thailand without an appropriate visa and work permit.

So, I will continue to do as I have been, and will hurry to get the Thailand Elite visa if a “big problem” comes up. The Thailand Elite visa is my long term goal. At my age 20 years of that would make me nearly 55 years old when it ran out. At that point I would hope to own property and/or have enough invested enough to have a proper “retirement” visa, or even Thai citizenship if I meet the requirements financially and otherwise.


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I was previously of the belief, perhaps erroneously, that BKK was less likely to scrutinize my entries. This recent incident was in fact the only time anyone has ever said anything to me. I suppose either I chose the wrong IO’s line to wait in among the six of them working fast track, or somehow the new system alerted the officer as this was my fourth consecutive tourist visa.

She was basically helpful. I answered truthfully, and she seemed to be somewhat understanding that I lived with my family. She said she would let it go this time, but that I “might have problems in the future.”

I don’t know if that constitutes a formal warning. I don’t really think so. I would expect a formal warning to be more explicit than saying that I “may have problems” in the future.

Under the circumstances she was quite friendly. I must say I am actually impressed that the Thai government is rather lenient in this regard. While I am now anxious about future visa runs, if I still need to take them, perhaps I should be thankful that I had this experience to make sure I’m more careful about this going forward.


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This is all very complicated. And maybe that’s a good thing because it has gotten me thinking about how to get a more suitable visa status.

How does one get a non immigrant visa. I should note that while I consider the family I live with to be “my family,” I am not married and therefore from a legal perspective perhaps am not viewed as such.


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I had an exfriend that lived in BKK on tourist visas for several years. Every time he went out of the country to get another visa he was worried and did not sleep well and had a folder full of documents. If you can afford the elite visa think of your health and do it. Years on living on a 90 days stress treadmill is not good for your health. If you cannot then ok and do what you are doing which is asking for help.  Some men on TF know exactly how to help and advise you. Good luck.  

In general, I agree with the advice you give people. Unless people are seriously wealthy, I would advise them to be very cautious about the investment option. The assumption that you will (i) be able to sell your investment if you wish when the economy is bad; and (ii) be able to transfer millions of baht out when you want are both dubious assumptions. I would personally not be willing to bring money into Thailand I was not willing, in the worst case, to write off.
 
That said, over the last 15 years or so, investment in Thai real estate has worked out well, especially given the appreciation of the baht against most major currencies.

On the Elite, consider what you will do when that 5 years runs out.  If you are in your 30s, the 1M Baht 20-year Elite option may be a better option.  That assumes that the retirement-requirements are still reasonable at that future-time, of course - take a look at the 5/10 year retirement options for a clue as to which way the wind is blowing - it's not pretty.
 
One of the best permanent solutions is the "investment" option, which can be renewed forever - though that requires 10M Baht to be invested in Thailand (new condos, savings accounts, etc).  The money remains yours, and can be withdrawn/sold and taken elsewhere if things go sideways, here.
 
If funds are limited, I would keep any surplus savings set-aside for learning about and potentially setting up a good life in a country that isn't moving in the direction of making it harder for foreigners to live there.  Laos has no easy "long term" stay options - so I would advise branching out and exploring other options.
 
If you have not spent time in Vietnam, I would encourage doing visa-runs there and using those runs to explore.  HCMC and Hanoi are good Thai consulates to obtain Tourist Visas.  If I were starting my SE Asia journey from scratch, today, that is where I would be checking out first.  Cambodia is another option.  This will create familiarity with nearby countries, where you could feel comfortable staying for longer periods when/if the rules on Tourist Visas are ever changed.  Even if things work out OK in Thailand, this experience would make your life here less stressful - just being familiar with another place you feel comfortable as a "Plan B."

Nothing in the Thai immigration laws states that tourist visas cannot be used to stay long term in Thailand. I appreciate that you and some immigration officials disagree with the law as it stands, and think it should be amended. However, an immigration official exercising his discretion to deny you entry with a valid tourist visa needs to lie about why he is doing it (such as claiming to know you are entering to work illegally). There is no category under Section 12 of the immigration act to deny entry because you are a tourist for too long.

I don't understand why it's so hard for so many to accept that successive Tourist Visas are NO LONGER a viable way of remaining in the country indefinitely.  Without offering any opinion as to whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, the worm has in fact turned, slowly, but it has turned.  Roll the dice if you want to; some definitely do; some will simple-mindedly assert that since they've been doing it for years & years with no problems that guarantees others will also never have a problem.  Incredibly thick-headed advice.  They're actually taking their chances just like you are.  Tourist Visas are NOT for the purpose of residence, and all it takes is for an IO somewhere, sometime, to up & decide to exercise his discretion and deny you another entry, probably when you least expect it and can least afford it.   If you have no objection to the expense - as many do - the Elite card is probably a better option (unless you have a spouse, children, are over 55, etc., as Tanoshi was mentioning above).  It's partly, but not entirely, about your working illegally, or deriving your income from within Thailand illegally.  If an IO believes you're living in Thailand on tourist visas, he certainly has the discretion to deny permission to enter; your fate is entirely in his hands at that point, and he doesn't have to prove to anyone that you're working illegally and doesn't even have to examine whatever documentation you might have to show him.
 
  

I recommend Hong Kong because of the very easy requirements, high efficiency, and lack of reports of people getting red stamped. Although it costs a bit more (in spite of no Laos visa cost) it really is the pleasantest place for a visa run in the region. I suggest Savannakhet (in spite of slightly annoying travel connections) because you enter Thailand by land, and there are no reports of red stamps from there.
 
Yangon (Myanmar) is fine, except that you need a Myanmar visa in advance. Also, if you wish to enter by land, it means a long bus trip to Myawaddy, crossing the border at Mae Sot, then (probably easiest) a domestic flight from Mae Sot airport close to the border to Bangkok.
 
For proof of staying with Thais, an invitation letter, plus a couple of photos might do it. As an alternative, you could create hotel reservations on something like Booking.com that allows free cancellation. They insist on hotel bookings or equivalent at Savannakhet. Savannakhet will also want to see bank statements, but I understand you are going to have those anyway, so it will just be a matter of copying them.

An immediate problem you are going to face if you continue to exclusively use Vientiane for your tourist visa applications is that they are going to red stamp you, which will make it very difficult to get further visas in the region.
 
My suggestion would be to use Savannakhet (returning by land) followed by Hong Kong (returning by air with the items you outline) for your next two visa runs. Savannakhet will require an onward flight out of Thailand, and your Hong Kong flight will do. Take something to Savannakhet that proves you are staying with your Thai relatives. For Hong Kong, there are basically no requirements (still true according to recent reports). You may be questioned on entry at Suvarnabhumi from Hong Kong, but should be OK using the same explanations as before.

I wouldn't necessarily assume you've been flagged, many people get questioned occasionally without problems. The comment she made about the problem of staying long term on tourist visas is pretty standard from an IO. 
 
One important problem - you state that you keep returning to VTE to get your tourist visas. Doing this more than three times in a row from the same embassy will likely get you a warning from the embassy and a warning stamp from them in your passport. The solution is to apply next time in a different embassy (Vietnam, HK, Penang or similar) and break the cycle. Even better is to get visas from the embassy in your home country whenever you touch base there. 

If possible - yes.  That depends on your age, if married to a Thai, etc.  Bottom line - you'd need a way to qualify for a different visa / permit-of-stay.

There is no evidence you have been "flagged."  One agent who doesn't agree with the law has said things - that is all.  Others have been threatened into buying tickets they didn't need, and told "big trouble" if they didn't use them, etc.  But, no one with similar experiences had any trouble when returning by land - even those denied entry (which is an official mark in the system).

Yes, you should do your homework and see what other options are available.

I just returned from a visa run to VTE and re-entered Thailand at Suvarnabhumi Airport. This was my forth consecutive SETV, and for the first time I was questioned about the purpose of my stay in Thailand and my source of income etc... I was allowed to enter, but was told that I “may have problems” in the future if I continue to do visa runs.

I am truthfully not working at all in Thailand, and have been jumping through the hoops with visa runs without any overstays. My income is foreign sourced.

I guess I just have a few questions:

1) Does a comment like that from an immigration officer constitute a warning that I need to take seriously? i.e. have I likely already been flagged for future scrutiny? I cannot see if the handwritten marking on my entry stamp means anything, or if that is just the officer’s standard way of signing. What would a negative notation look like if there were one? Would it be hand written of some kind of a stamp?

2) If I continue to visa run in the same manner, will I likely be okay if I make sure to have the requisite amount of cash on me and my next flight out of Thailand already booked? I also will bring bank statements as documentation of access to foreign source of income.

3) Do I need to change anything immediately, or would there be official warning prior to any negative action taken against my visa status and immigration clearance?

Incidentally, I noticed that a new system seems to be in place, and the visa itself contains computer inputted data fields. Perhaps this had to do with why I was questioned this time.

I answered the questions truthfully, and explained that I am not and have not been working in Thailand at all, and that I live with my Thai family here. When I mentioned that, the officer appeared to be understanding and it satisfied some of her concerns. Although understandably, these officials are used to being lied to, so they have reasons to be skeptical.

Basically, am I safe continuing BKK-VTE visa runs by air on TG, assuming I meet the financial criteria and have all necessary documentation and tickets?

Or, should I be crossing a land boarder instead, or otherwise do I need to change what I am doing?

Or, do I need to get a different visa status altogether? It seems that many people successfully visa run on SETVs for extended periods, but I know there has been heightened scrutiny of this in recent years and months.

Any advice or information is greatly appreciated!

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Quite a lot of people get to the Embassy way before they open ,6-7 AM and begin queuing outside. 
   I went there recently on a Tuesday morning and got to the Embassy at 11 AM , filled out the forms, got photos and photo copies done , and handed my application in .
   No need to get their early and queue
Got  high number for PP pick-up the next day .
They serve people, handing out PP's at a rate of 2-3 per minute
So you can work out roughly what time your number will be called

Same as Tuesday since there will not be many applications being picked up on Thursday afternoon.

Do not go on Thursdays as the visa run companies arrive on that day also
 
So Mondays, Thursdays and Fridays (unless you want to stay the weekend there and pick your PP up on Monday)

Thanks again for the above advice re day of the week. Tuesday proved to not be crowded at all.

For future reference, which are the days to avoid at the Vientiane consulate, if possible?

I know Tuesday and Friday are optimal. How are the other days?


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Thanks very much. This info really helps[emoji106]


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On a Tuesday ,I would suggest either around opening time, or between 10:30 and 11:00. The advantage of being early is mainly that you get a low number for collection on Wednesday, which can be important if you have an earlier flight.

Cheapest is to book an Air Asia and claim the airport tax. I did that once and got back from Air Asia about 700 baht out of 1500, but that was on a flight i had to lose because I delayed my departure for different reasons, and to change the date Air Asia would charge more than buying a fresh Lion Air ticket (which i ended up doing).
 
The loss I think was 800 baht. With prior planning, this loss can be reduced to 500 baht or so I reckon.
 
That is the cheapest above the board solution (for cancellation). All regional business class tickets had cancellation fees in the region of 2,000 - 3,000 baht last time I checked. Things may have changed though I am not sure.
 
Rerouting I'm not sure they do, changing dates for free on fully flexible tickets (economy or business) you'd have to check the fare rules of whatever it is you're booking.

I always prepare exit tickets for these embassies/consulates even if not required.
 
Ways to get these tickets have been discussed in other threads. They range from cheap exit tickets where you claim and get refunded the airport tax (Air Asia), or in the cases of frequent travellers that still keep old pdfs i in their inboxes,  Adobe Acrobat has some interesting features.
 
To answer your question, an exit ticket is required for Yangon Embassy. You could try your luck without one and maybe an itinerary or a bank statement, but i would not overcomplicate it.
 
As a frequent user of SETVs, I always carry a bank statement just in case as a backup wherever i apply, although Yangon does not require one.

Yes they do say it takes a few days for the Myanmar e-visa so I would do it in advance next time as well, however my last experience with the Myanmar e-visa was, payment was confirmed at 2:30 pm on a Friday and the e-mail containing the visa was received 20 minutes later, at 2:50 pm.
 
In reference to the Thai consulate, did not experience anything other than what has already been reviewed, apart from a guy that they asked to write down an itinerary and sign it, not sure why, maybe he was missing the exit ticket or something.
 
Other than that the consulate is ok, girls at the counter helpful, although the place itself (Yangon) is not really my cup of tea.