anuaaron

Sorry if someone pointed this out already but a earlier post suggested you have to go back to Ekamai and then go to Pattaya by bus. The site states clearly you can get the bus from the Airport to Pattaya.

Bus Number 389 - Ekamai - Suvarnabhumi Airport - Pattaya - Price approx 120 baht

I found the following info on the webboard which was very helpful. The thing is my Thai licence expired in 2547. I still have them both. Just wondering how old thay can be to automatically get a renewal.

Cheers

Obtaining a 5 Year Licence

Documents needed:

1. Your old, expired Thai driving licence. (On the date you apply, your licence must have already expired.)

2. Photocopies of the following pages of your passport:

- the page with your photograph and name

- the non-immigrant visa

- the departure card ("TM... card" - stapled in your passport)

- the last arrival stamp ("Admitted Until" stamp)

- the last "Application Of Stay" extension stamp.

All pages must be signed by you.

3. 2 Photographs for each licence: 1 inch square (2.5 cm square) excluding the white border, which will be cut off.

It must show your complete face, neck and top of shoulders.

4. A photocopy of and the original document, which is a letter or form (bottom of TM47 form) from Immigration confirming your address in Thailand. They will keep the photocopy and give you back the original document.

The photocopy must be signed by you.

5. 505 baht for car licence / 255 baht for motorbike - valid 5 years minimum, up to your next birthday after 5 full years.

Note: no medical certificate is required.

It offends me a lot that some people here seemed to be unaware of the seriousness of the Situation

Brutus

I guess some may be aware of the seriousness but i think the point most people raise is that it is common everywhere these days and it seems funny that some seem to think that Farngs are a protected species. I only have to read my local paper to see some gory death each day, an 8 year old girl raped and killed in a department store toilet. It is just a nasty world.

Maybe Yai Yen can explain what Shinawatra's leadership has to do, with an area under control of the Democrat party? Great influence Abhisit in that case? or is that also utmost simplicity? Blame it on the police? Maybe too simple too, but the police had received intelligence reports that this would happen. if bombs explode in your own police stations, than Shinawtra might be in the right. Think before you shout YAI RON

I think the point is that the PM has never calmed the situation down and the rgetoric he has chosen has often made the situation worse than need be. Being in the second highest office of the country if he fails to show tolerance for peace it is a bit hard to blame anyone else. You mention areas of control I would have thought the PM has the biggest area...the whole country. His efforts at restoring peace have been laughable. So the "shouter" would appear logically correct.

Reminds me of a incident in Darwin, Australia. A guy was mowing the lawn at 8.00 am on a Sunday and his neighbour lent over the fence and shot the lawn mower and then the guy with a shotgun!!! Funny thing was the dead guy did not get much sympathy. Mowing the lawn on a Sunday morning!!!

Anuaaron, as things are standing now, you can post serios posts in dedicated forums. A few months ago a Motoring forum was created, for example, and it's a nice place to talk about cars. I wasn't the one sponsoring the idea, but I stood firmly behind it, and I'm happy the way it turned out.

What do you want to talk about? Ask mods to open a new forum if your area of interest isn't covered yet.

Otherwise, ask mods to open a special forum just for you, or gang up with Colpyat and moderate it together. If there's interest in what you say there, people will come.

Understood. Basically finishes of this thread Everything has been covered I reckon

Thai culture did not develop in isolation. Much of it is based on Hindu culture via various routes, and modified over time to become Thai, much like the cultures in the Americas and Australia.

No it did not develop in isolation but it developed over a extensive period and has had many shifts and twists including dominance over a large region where it was cultural considered as advanced as India. I am comparing that to the relative short period of foreign culture arriving on anothers shores and then inventing itself. My argument comes down to time and independence I guess.

Nobody ever says that the USA is becoming Japanized because they buy more Japanese cars than they do American cars.

I think the world is flatter than that and "blaming" the west every time a country takes a technological or commercial leap forward is "passe".

If you give a computer to a kid in Africa that was made in Korea is that kid being corrupted by the WEST?

I dont think one can call it "the industrial and consumer goaled path of western countries" anymore.

Its a human condition, not a regional one.

cheers

I see where you are coming from, but the blatant use of foreign debt and conditional aid to force other countries to follow the path of the western cultural norm, by the western countries or organisation backed by those same countries, does mean that the industrial and consumer goaled path is from western countries. Other nations have had no other path to choose. Tag along with our economic blackmail or get frozen out of the system.

And the computer is being made in Korea by a trans national corportaion, acting under free trade barriers pushed by the west, to the detriment of both Korea and Africa, who are still trying to pay back foreign aid....yes they are being corrupted by the west.

Academics can discuss their academic subjects on their academic forums.

Mods can easily set up "Thai studies" forum or "Thai marine life" forum them as long as there's a common area of interest.

What would this newly proposed forum would be about? What would it be called? So far people look for "No one-liners forum", or "Heavily moderated forum", or "No stupid people" forum.

As long as it's got nothing positive to unite people around it's doomed. It will be empty in a day. It's vapour.

Then there's a question of quality - some of the posters here grossly overrate their "serious" contributions. They might not pass the entry test to their forum themselves!

I think there is a bit of overreaction. It is not an attempt to say that "clever" people have somewhere to post. It was meant as somewhere that only referenced arguments or serious debate could be held. It may not be used often. Everyone can stay and have fun in the forum but if someone wants a academic discussion, perhaps get ideas, readings, they can use that area of the forum knowing that is what the area is devoted to. They can have perhaps a more in depth discussion which would bore the board.

I am not sure why some are going on about schoolmaster mentality, eliticism, and entry tests!

I think the whole idea is based on a simple premise that some people want to make into something bigheaded and terrible.

The oneliners, putdowns, negativity, can all still abound as per usual everywhere else in amongst the conversations on the forum.

Well at least the idea created interest

Both I and a friend of mine have noted and commented on higher numbers of foreigners living in our area (just outside downtown Bangkok). Many of them look like retirees or long-term tourists, but some of them do not.

However, all I have to do is go about 30 minutes further out, and I'm the only one.

"Steven"

So true Steve. I am in the middle part of Thailand and we seem to have about twenty to thirty westerners at any time. Some go and some come but the amount stays the same. I do not know of any retirees here. I did notice that Udon Thani seemed to have a growing farang population when I left but do not know about today.

Also traveliing a small distance from where I am, means no westerners but I am not fond of village life. I prefer the small town. As I get older thsi may change

PS: I like your quote. Very wise

10- Rice cooker or electric wok

11- Plants (chilli, lemon, lime, mango tree, quava tree are quite popular)

12- Believe it or not.....a good knives set!

The electric rice cooker seems a great idea. The knife set Oh my buddha.....get that only if you are leaving the same day

Most people on this forum post both serious topics as well as shoot the sh*t! Its the very nature of the beast I'm afraid.

My advice is lighten up. As an open forum aijed at the expat community you have the full range of people here from the dossers like myself right through to the highly intellectual like Totster and Daleyboy.

Thats one reason I like it so much. You can learn from one post and then chuckle at another.

If you find a post inane or beneath you then just scroll past to the next 'sensible' post.

I agree with that but some topics would remain more relevant. Important if it has been suggested by a person as something that they would like to learn more about, . There are things I would like to learn more of and I know there are people here could help but when you have to go through a heap of "shit shooting " it makes the whole thing pointless. Sure have fun and make good points on the forum but have an area that uses references for further readings and expands on ideas. Just a thought!

Well, you are the first person so far to say that. The whole thread is about poor knowledge of geography, there are numerous posts with examples, and then you pop up and state something completely opposite.

The classic tale I'll never forget, I suppose, is a letter in Bangkok Post years ago. A farang asked young political majors at Chula University to name Thailand's neighbours, their capitals, and their current leaders. Students flopped this little test spectacularly, and so the farang wrote a letter. A few days later there was a reply that these particular questions aren't covered in students' current course and so they shouldn't be blamed for not answering.

And that's political majors at the best university in Thailand.

I myself won't be able to point all African countries on the map right away, and I always thought Belize and Benin were in Africa, too, but the capital of Vietnam or Cambodia?

It's good that your students know geography well, but it's rather an exception.

Don't get so worked up over my one liner - your "well thought post" is based on a wrong premise.

Not worked up at all. I guess the fact that my post is considered an exception may just mean that others have not posted. You said yourself the Bangkok Post article was years ago. It would be possible that things have improved. While I am willing to accept that my group in rural Thailand are the exception it would be suprising. Again i state that they are by no means geographic experts but do not seem to be as hopeless as perhaps they once were. They all know the capitals of Mynamar, Laos, and Cambodia thats for sure. Part of our English final is to name the 72 regions in English, so again perhaps the standard has improved. Perhaps the flop years earler caused a general improvement at this level.

Not sure what "premise" I have wrong. I am saying poorly educated Thais are poor at geography. Educated Thais are reasonable.

'ColPyat' in post # 321 said:

"In Thailand outside Bangkok, the eastern seaboard and Korat their is very little industrial development. In large provinces of the North and Isaarn there is very little employment opportunities. Which does lead to enormous migration that is a huge burden on village social structures, and has led to a development of a urban proletariat which in itself is a powderkeg, if you observe the industrial suburbs of Bangkok."

This makes for a great weakness in societal development, as well as causing social problems (such as the scale of the Aids epidemic, which would have been far less without so many young migrant workers uprooted and footloose).

I agree with your post but do you not feel that that internal migration is true of any country. Australia, USA, China, and just about any industrialised state moves people from the country to the cities. It is the weakness of the government not to bring about social programs to deal with this inevitable movement than to blame the migration itself. It is an economic fact that you cannot have national scale industry all over the country, and even if you could you would still get migration from villages to provincial capitals.

I used to tip my golf caddy 200 baht - a great tip of 70%. They never thanked me so I started giving 100. 3 of them asked for more so now they get bugger all. If you're giving away free tellies and getting no thanks, remember and don't do it again.

The worst one was when I bought 6 baht of gold for my wife when we ere getting married. I handed over cash to the woman in the shop and she didn't even look at me, but waied my wife. On the way out, as I realised I was getting no thanks I told them exactly what I thought of them - I was fuming.

I think that is being a bit harsh. The standard caddy tip is 200 baht so you get the normal response. I got a big wai when I gave 500 once (no change dash it) . Other posters have mentioned the age thing and really do you need thanks for helping family.

I also agree that you should not make it a habit because you open yourself up to abuse. Special occassions are nice for giving something and you also can make an issue out of it if you want. I gave a vacuum cleaner once that I wrapped and made the younger members of the family open. I wrapped it in three bits of paper so it was like pass the parcel. Everyone had fun and the tension even forced granny to clap when she saw what it was But they did know I would only help for special things on special days (worked out about three times a year and cost me about 15,000 baht a year).

But there's something missing. Something you see all over Thai Visa.

Where are all the upright members who usually jump up at any excuse and say things like ''How dare you criticise anything at all about Thailand! Why don't you go home if you don't like it! You're not in the West now, sonny. It's their country and it's perfect in every respect and you're not Thai so don't you dare suggest it could be better, you don't have the right to breathe the air ... etc., etc., etc.''

I think because this is acknowledged as not only a Thai problem but a world problem. In many developed countries the poor are mistreated.

It is great what you are trying to do. I have worked with the poor in different locations and know just how hard it can be on your own mental state as well as others. People tell you to watch out for this and not get attached...etc. But simply if everyone made some effort we would all be better off.

And the traditional knowledge of selfsufficient agriculture has been nearly lost since the green revolution of the 80's.

Good points. The traditional knowledge is still there though. It was only 20 years ago. More of the problem has been the pressure on the land as a lot of the good land has been bought for development of industry. The best rice growing land that could grow two or three crops a year in some northeast areas was used for industry and the poorer one crop a year land was left to the farmers. It could be argued that the desire to industrialise is really weakening the country.

Thai peasantry is also unlikely to argue against development ideas. The Thai government makes sure it sells development as a gift to the people and they should be grateful for anything they receive and do what they are told. Development should be considered a right and the people involved consulted. (I have a good article about an eastern village, that discusses this). Africa is only just beginning to understand this and some gains are being made.

To move forward I would think Thailand should focus on fixing social issues and improving health and education. A happier working class allows for more structured development in the future, not just building factories.

I am not a perfect poster but i am really focussing on improving. I am not trying to start arguments but wondering why do some posters......

respond to lenghty posts that have a thought out argument with a one line comment?

eg: "The evidence does not support that."

How about sharing it!!!

generalise eveything and everyone?

eg: "You are here for the sex and beer, my friend."

respond to logical comments with responses they do nothing for the topic?

eg: "Is there more to Thailand then sex and beer?? " (seen that 500 times) or, as in a discussion about Thai language, "People here should learn to use English grammar."

when someone disagrees with them and uses a logical argument the response just gets hostile?

"Your idea is idiotic, you would'nt know the real Thailand"

go out of their way to make Thailand appear as backward and all Thais corrupt and stupid?

I mean Thailand is not perfect and discussing the flaws is fine but also realise that every country has flaws. Use comparisons, think about the issue. Would be a joy for all.

The sad thing for me is that a lot of these responses come from people who have 200+ posts. Is that how they got them? It is just sad that many good posts degenerate or good topics can not develop because of things like the above.

Why do people need to do it? Do they not think before posting? I know sometimes I walk the line when I read some responses and want to say something smartassed back but then think what does it contribute to the board. I also know how hard it can be to stick to the original topic because the topic can wind off. There are so many intelligent people here, many make excellent points, and then later resort to one of the above responses!

Should there be an area inside this board that is used for academic discussion. Where comments need to be supported and thought shown. Anyone breaching the above points gets warned and banned from that area? Could it be done or should it be done?

I also bet that there will be some smartass comments made in reply to this post

Any Thai who has been all through secondary school or University has a reasonable knowledge of geography.

That statement goes agaisnt all the evidence so far.

I guess that depends what is reasonable. What level do you want?? Are you working off a study?

In my classes UK, Baltic States, USA, Brazil, Australia, and Southeast Asian states are always widely known. They have problems with many African nations and former Soviet republics, I would suggest that is common across the world.

I am not arguing that they are geographic experts but that they are probably not any worse of then other students at a University level. . I taught kids in Australia who had less knowledge off geography then some of my students. There are those who know nothing, but they have no interest. Again common world wide.

I will stick by the statement that Secondary and University students have a reasonable knowledge of geography.

There's more to Thailand than sex and beer?

Funny how someone says that every time it is mentioned

I was rather hoping this post would invite discussion rather than invective.

It is simply an education issue. Any Thai who has been all through secondary school or University has a reasonable knowledge of geography. One of my lessons at Uni is based on geography and the students are pretty good. Uneducated people just don't know and really don't care where Belarus or Japan actually is. I think this would be true anywhere in the world. Australians with poor education got very poor marks in locating Cambodia and Israel on the map.

If we are talking about locally I find they are generally pretty good in knowing roughly where cities are. Without casting dispersions against rcalsop, you have one dumbass family

An Australian Network went to the USA with a map of the world. They wrote Iraq on top of Australia and asked citizens what would be the best method to invade. only 18% worked out it wasnt Iraq Of course I don't think they were asking any rocket scientists

Yeah why tell the world ? Having been here for many years I feel we're killing the goose that laid the golden egg, Im talking about year's ago it was only the farang that had the gut's to leave their country and go off to start a new life in a strange land that came here, we knew next to nothing and had to fend for ourselves the best we could, because of this we we're in a minority, these day's with the formation of the ex pat's club and their website they are encoraging people by the thousand's to re locate here, the result's are increased prices everywere, and nowhere to park your car !

You know the actual amount of people who say that want to live here and can actually live here is pretty large, I would think. For many, once the girls and drinking becomes mundane....or kills them...there isnt much left and they become the cynical old buggers in the bar. Many romantacise about moving upcountry and tend to head back again within a month. So really unless you hang around Patpong, Pattaya, Phuket...etc you can still find places that you are welcome, especially if you are of some value to the community (no, not a walking wallett). I think boards like this are helpful to let people know there is more to Thailand than sex and beer. Perhaps we will get better people coming and therefore raising the respect of westerners that has deterioted over the years.

No. I am not saying that people who live in the tourist areas are evil and bad, I have many friends living in these places. If that is what you want, good luck to you

Urban middle class Thais never go to temples anymore. There's construction all over Bangkok, but I've never seen a new temple being built.

Dont really think that reflects that urban middle class Thais dont go to temples. Due to time they are shown to go less often but still attend reasonably regularly. They are also large contributors to existing temples. Thais also stick with their own temples and tend not to visit others. So many will wait until they return to their hometown where, often. they visit their temple. So new temples are not really required.

I have been told by language experts that you have to hear a new word about 100 times before you understand it and something like 500 times before you can speak it. I might have the numbers wrong, but it's something like this.

I can only imagine that foreigners will experience similar problems in trying to pronouince new words from the written Thai language, unless they are already fluent readers and speakers.

I have been fond of the old three times method. Below is how I learn it. TF = Thai friend. Lets say the word is acaan.

TF= acaan, acaan, acaan.

Me= acaan

TF= acaan, acaan.

Me= acaan, acaan.

Tf= acaan.

Me= acaan, acaan, accan.

We then repeat this five times. I know sounds boring but it works for me.

After that he/she uses the word in three different sentences that I know all the words.

I repeat each sentence three times and he corrects only if badly wrong.

I then write the word in Thai 20 times. I then write the sentences he gave me in Thai 2 times each.

With this method I learn five to seven words each day. Takes me 30-45 minutes. I choose words from a newspaper that I dont know. I still forget some over a period but find they come back quickly with a gentle reminder. Though tones can still be stuffed up. If that is the case writing the word reminds me of the correct tone. I call 30 words a lesson and when have thirty words I do a session of revision where I do the above exercise once to confirm.

I only started doing this after learning all the basic stuff as I seemed to hit a wall going from the "I am cold" phrase to "I am cold because the weather at this time of the year is windy." The method i used above meant to create this sentence I only had to reinforce the words "weather" and "windy" to advance my basic thai.

Again I really love learning the language and guess this method requires a lot of passion.

If you were just starting perhaps do the above method twice, sentences twice, and write the word 10 times and the sentences once. I would think you could learn 20 words in an hour this way. But know that you will have to advance that to really improve later.

Get really basic childrens books and choose words from them to learn. When you have a word choose the sentences you want to learn using that word. Better than boring phrase books.

I also used a different Thai speaker over the week. Stops them getting bored but also lets you get used to different voices. I also found some would understand a word whilst another would be confused. Guess a Thai gets used to my pronounciation as well.

Anyway. Would be cool to hear how others go about it.

I don't know anyone here personally so I can't attest to your proficiency in Thai. However all of my Thai friends feel very few farangs can speak Thai beyond a preschool level and even less can pronounce the language correctly. Living in Thailand does seem essential since the tonality goes beyond just the individual words but how they sound and flow together in sentences and speech.

I'd say some examples of what I'd personally consider proficient is if you can watch Thai TV and understand what's going on you are proficient in listening to Thai. If you can read a newspaper you are proficient in reading and if you can have a phone conversation about your wife's visa with the Thai embassy in Thai then you are proficient in speaking.

I've been studying 2 years and cannot do any of the above. I also haven't had the chance to live in Thailand, I think if I could I'd quickly fill in many of the gaps in my knowledge that stops me from gaining ground at the speed I'd like.

The point of this is not to insult or question what anyone said, only that there are many who think they are good at Thai who in actuality are fooling themselves. I think it's a very desirable skill because few can do it, so many claim they can.

Excellent post. I have been learning and studying Thai for 6 years. I still struggle with a lot of the newspapers (takes me thirty minutes to understand a complicated newsstory). Do okay with the Tele unless they use slang, Thais use words with everyday menaings in many subtle ways that i just dont get. Conversation is okay but always feel that the Thai speaker adjusts his use of words when talking to me anyway to make it easier. I know my tones still stuff up on occassions. I hope that in about 6 more years I will be spot on. The difficult part is going from basic converation to initiating and having tpical discussions.

What gave me a shove was "Thai Reference Grammar". If you get to the point that you have a large vocabulary but feel you are stuck to phrases you know get this book and practice mixing up sentences and phrases. I know for sure the level I have attained has helped me in Thailand with work and general respect. I wrote an essay in Thai at my Uni once that had people loving me for weeks It took me about a month to write 1500 words I also know I have a passion for learning the language and to continue to do so, that makes a big difference.