pornprong

5 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Thaksin has simply GOT to know that his audience of interested listeners shrinks by the month.   Stuff like this might stir up his ever-shrinking base, temporarily, but at the same time bores everyone else and causes them to tune out.  The "kangaroo-court" argument is threadbare and very very tired at this point.   And enlisting dead western philosophers in his cause is pathetic.   'Not sure what his long-term strategy for resurrection might be, but if this is it, he's just writing a how-not-to guide...

 

 

You don't appear to like Thaksin and you haven't tuned out so what makes you think the millions of followers who adore him would have?

Maybe they'll stumble across the footage of who stole the democracy plaque.

25 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

And that was after he was shot in his car, more Red justice.

Red justice, or military justice???

From Sondhi's son own mouth...

Sondhi appears to differ with Kasit. Judging from what his son Jittanart Limthongkul and media outlets have said it suspects a faction of the “uniformed armed forces” may be behind the move to kill him.

Sondhi apparently thinks people in the military wanted to eliminate him and put the blame on Thaksin and his red shirt mob, in a bid to provoke Sondhi’s supporters in the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to attack their foes, the reds.

28 minutes ago, djjamie said:

In a way I do agree Abhisit should be held responsible somewhat for the deaths. He was too tolerant and showed too much patience with the terrorists thus they became more and more brazen.

Too tolerant and too much patience?

He apparently gave orders to have live ammunition fired at them after just 27 days.

28 minutes ago, djjamie said:

April 9th, 2010 was the first use of force by the military and it was with rubber bullets and water cannons.

The protests began on the 12th of March. So between then and the 9th of April when the red terrorists threatened to blow up an LPG truck, grenade attacks at Thai banks, attacked Thai charity with grenades, stormed parliament, attacked NPP and TPI buildings with M16 and grenades the military did nothing. NOTHING!

Between April 9 and March 12 how many people died?

Fact is there were no injuries and no arrests prior to the April 10 murders.

28 minutes ago, djjamie said:

Imagine that. NOTHING!! In any country in the world the leader would not be able to get away with allowing the capital to be violently savaged without taking any action. They would be removed.

Again, zero arrests and zero injuries prior to the April 10 murders.

The red protests of 2010 were far, far shorter in duration than the yellow mobs of 2006, 2008 and 2014

28 minutes ago, djjamie said:

The only saving grace is the Right Honorable Abhisit's heart was in the right place. His hesitation was because he wanted to try to settle this protest peacefully. Unfortunately the red shirts were having none of that and Thaksin got what he was hoping for. Blood on the streets or as Jatuporm stated during his "peaceful protest"  "The dark sky will turn red. Red like blood".

Abhisit wasn't even in charge. He was, and remains, a cowardly front man.

28 minutes ago, djjamie said:

Red shirt protest site involved grenades coming out of the protest site. Sutheps protest site involved grades being thrown into the protest site. So much so Suthep had to install anti grenade nets to protect the protestors. 

All Thai protest sites of the last 10 years have involved grenades. 

Makes one question the competence of the military officers in charge of munitions.

Too bad Suthep didn't offer to lend some of those grenade nets to the police who were on the receiving end of grenades being thrown at them from his mob.

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Yes, he claims the charges were politically motivated. He doesn't deny it doing though! But that would be hard as they have the evidence he did. And yes, it was illegal.

It seems I know more about the case than you. Why are you ignoring the pastry box - inconvenient?

Because it wasn't a crime!

Here's how ridiculous it is.

For it to be a crime, it would have to be established that the independent Bank of Thailand is not actually independent and is under the control of the government - something which the Governor of the independent bank at the time refuted (remember - Pridiyathorn is a man who Prayuth put in is own cabinet as DPM and Finance Minister).

Pridiyathorn was not under Thaksin's supervision, there is no case!

As far as I'm aware the pastry box incidence is one man's word against another. There is zero evidence of it ever occurring other than the claims of one man made during a highly politicised period. This of course didn't stop the corrupted Thai courts from convicting the accused - hardly a shining example of justice, conviction on heresay.

I would never convict anyone based solely on one man's version of events with absolutely zero supporting evidence. 

Strip away the facade of opposing super-villain Thaksin and all that is left is a garden variety fascist.

39 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Drivel.

What a wonderfully erudite statement.

Quote

In the West, any PM who fiddled a land deal so his missus could by it cheap, way below market price, and the quickly sell it for a killing would be in trouble, very much so.

No crime in the land deal.

How, after all these years can you possibly still be repeating untruths. There was a blind auction and Thaksin's wife had the highest bid at 772 million baht which is significantly higher than the Land Departments appraised value of 700 million and slightly higher than the value the other two bidders who valued the land at the low 700 million baht range. The nonsense that the land was below market price is based on the sale of the same parcel of land in 1995 for 2.14 billion baht to the FIDF. 

How did the land go from 2.14 billion baht in 1995 to 700 million baht in 2002 is not the question.

The question is how did land acquired at 102 million get sold to a government agency for 2.14 billion in 1995?

The intentionally overpriced purchase occurred during a property market boom and went through as a mechanism to effectively bail out Erawan, which was facing liquidity issues. Perhaps you should spend a minute to investigate the properness of this deal rather than trying to blame Thaksin.

What was that you wrote earlier about apologising for writing lies?

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Even Thaksin admitted the circumstances regarding the abuse of power that led to his conviction. He never denied illegal signing of documents. There was an attempt to bribe the judges though.

What nonsense is this. Thaksin has repeatedly stated the charges against him were nothing but political. He never denied singing the documents because it was not illegal. You appear to know very little about the case.

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Made up charges - please explain your comment; or apologies for trying to post something that isn't true.

Thaksin was not the Supervisor of the FIDF, Pridiyathorn Devakula was. In order to get the ridiculous conviction to stick they decided to say Thaksin was the defacto Supervisor. Not only did Pridiyathorn support Thaksin, he also stated that the FIDF, that he was in charge of suffered no loss from the sale of the land and saw no need for any charges to be laid against Thaksin. Who is Pridiyathorn, just so happens to be the man Prayuth put in charge of the economy after the coup - so he's hardly a red.

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Corrupt Court - how so? If they were corrupt they'd have take the bribe. They didn't.

If you think the Thai courts aren't corrupt you are in an extremely small minority my friend.

12 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

That's right. You simply know in your mind that all you Shin huggers and lovers, simply instinctively know that Thakisn and his clan are innocent as the day is long. Why he even said so himself on CNN, and he never lies does he?

By western standards, Thaksin would of course be guilty of many things, but by Thai standards he is no criminal. This probably explains why the only conviction against him is the inane land purchase farce where he was declared to be a "defect" supervisor of the FIDF even when the law clearly stated the Pm was not the Supervisor of the FIDF.

Hold them all accountable to the same standards - lock them all up, both sides or lock none of them up. 

Quote

And all those who dare oppose this benevolent honest very moral clan must be guilty of all sorts of crimes, even though never convicted and should be sent to prison for eternity.

Whoever said anything of the like?

Quote

The deluded world of the Shin fan posters! And they can't even understand why few believe them.

The only delusions here are by those who need to create a demon to justify their own beliefs and views. 

Without the facade of opposing super-villain Thaksin and his devilish clan, all that's left is garden variety fascism.

(this is why every post is a constant regurgitation of "red crimes" - without the fantasies, you have nothing)

6 minutes ago, djjamie said:

The Right Honourable Abhisit should be given an award. Had he not intervened when he did the further loss of life and destruction by the red shirt terrorists would have been worse. 

There was no loss of life before he intervened and nearly 100 lives lost after he intervened.

The only award the Dishonourable Abhisit should be receiving is a lengthy jail sentence.

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Well Thaksin has been convicted, jumped bail and sentenced in absentia. And of course has 15 or so serious cases outstanding.

Q1. Convicted by who and for what?

A1. Convicted by corrupted courts on made up charges.

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Yingluck has chosen, seemingly, to do a runner before any verdict. In most minds that does tend to suggest she and her legal team think a guilty verdict probable. And of course, based on the evidence produced, that would seem a correct conclusion.

Q2. Why did Yingluck flee?

A2. See A1 above.

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

How many crimes has the person you refer to been convicted of?

Says more about the state of the judiciary than anything else.

1 hour ago, Thian said:

What i do remember is that those groups of reds occupied sukhumvitroad and built barricades there of cartires which they put on fire...They also shot at police with any kind of homemade weapon they could get their hands on.

To top it off there were men in black on the roofs and they were heavy armed.

Seems to be a very one sided memory you got there buddy.

Do you by chance happen to remember the 90+ people killed by the military with state of the art weapons of war, apparently acting under PM Abhisit's orders - that is of course what this thread is about.

Quote

The only thing the government could do was shoot the culprits since they wouldn't listen to anybody and even started shooting grenades and so.

No, the government could have dissolved parliament and called fresh elections as both Thaksin and Yingluck did when faced with similar situations. This would have ended the protest there and then without the need to shoot anyone.

Quote

Anybody who was in that area had put himself in danger, there had been plenty warnings that they should leave.

Ah yes, I clearly remember how quickly Suthep and the PDRC packed up and went home as soon as the government politely asked them to.

Funny, here you want to place the blame for the Red deaths on the Reds for putting themselves in danger but none of you guys ever apply the same standards when talking about yellow deaths. If Reds die, it's their fault for entering dangerous zones, if Yellows die , it's because the Reds are terrorist thugs. 

Quote

They also put the Central World mall on fire. 

They sure did. 

Wouldn't you be a touch angry yourself if you were witnessing your brothers and sisters being slaughtered.

Quote

I don't feel sorry that a few got hurt, i hoped the government would just get them out asap, no matter how. Those were the worst days BKK has ever seen. It took a long time before the government finally took action, next time they should do it straight away, no matter against who, reds, yellows, blacks whatever....just drive tanks through them.

Did they get hurt or murdered?

You don't feel sorry for, amongst 90+ others murderd, the young nurse shot and killed in the temple declared safe zone whilst tending to the wounded?

What made those days so bad for you if you don't feel sorry for those that were killed? Did it upset your shopping plans?

The Red shirt protest started March 14 and the army started killing protestors on April 10, that is a grand total of 27 days from start of protest to start of massacre.

How does that compare to Sutheps protest?

The PDRC was formed and took to the streets on November 29 and remained on the streets until May 22, that is a grand total of 173 days..... and yet no massacre. Why, in one case, was the only thing the government could do was shoot after 27 days, but in the other case, the government managed to not shoot for 173 days?

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

The somewhat unique nature of the justice system here may make it very different to the justice system in other countries.

However, that doesn't mean Thaksin and Yingluck are innocent either.

Not a big fan of "innocent until proven guilty" then are we?

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Really?

 

Ask Sonthi Limthongkul who was sentenced to 20 years in jail if he is a red shirt.

Sonthi was convicted in February 2012 for a crime committed in the 1990's but didn't see the inside of a jail cell until nearly 30 years later after he became vocally critical of the ruling Junta (coincidence?).

He is also one of the very few to beat a LM charge.

I think it is safe to say that had his political affiliations been of the Red variety, much more of his life would have been spent behind bars.

I bet you couldn't name 1 yellow for every 10 reds that are serving politically related sentences.

So yes, really!

12 minutes ago, hansnl said:

What about blaming the redshirts.

I seem to remember it were them starting to burn buildings, threatening people, shooting people.

I am speechless the redshirt culprits and leaders we're never brought to justice.

And speechless so many conveniently want to forget that part.

Each person should be accountable for their own crimes.

Do you seem to remember 90 people being shot dead by the military?

Should the person supposedly in charge during that period be brought to justice?

You too have conveniently forgotten the article is about Abhisit - care to comment on that?

58 minutes ago, Thian said:

And not to forget the looting/burning down of Central World plaza....

Looks like you've already forgot this thread is about Abhisiv's role in the killing 90 or so people.

2 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

You must be joking ! Abhisit is the only one of them that possesses any degree of integrity, and it would appear that the military already have their own party that is probably going to rule for many years to come :)

Why does Abhisit have integrity?

After twice boycotting elections to enable coups, after meekly allowing the military to slaughter 100 people in 2010, after allowing rampant corruption to occur during his tenure as unelected PM and after never once speaking up about the tainted Thai judiciary, integrity is not an adjective that describes Abhisit in any way, now or ever.

The military don't already have their own party and they cannot rule for many years to come without at least a facade of democracy. The newly formed military party will only take voters from the Democrats, it will split the conservative vote and probably render the final tally of votes for the Democrats at under 10%.

The military know the Democrats can't win elections for they have two great failings.

1. Their policies ignore 50% of the population

2. They're led by a man with no integrity.

Abhisit....the man knows no depths to which he cannot sink.

Next election, the military will have their own party and all the right wing nuts will vote military rendering Abhisit and the Democrats an irrelevancy.

13 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

'...overlook...'

 

Your guilty of the same, you overlook why the junta came into the whole mess.

 

And why do you think the Junta came in?

(Before you start with the but, but , but Thaksin - remember, Junta's have been "coming in" for over 80 years, well before Thaksin ever was a player)

10 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Try looking it up and do some research.

 

It is NOT compulsory.

 

I really have no interest in your posts until YOU come up with something that YOU have researched.

 

Do you really believe that EVERY student in M4, 5 and 6 does this.?

 

Do you even have children at school in Thailand?

 

For someone who only joined the forum on Friday 1st September you certainly have no idea how to use the search function of Thai visa, nor it seems have you done ANY research on the topic that you are talking about.

How about you just read the title of the thread.

18 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

It doesn't really matter if you use the term mandatory or compulsory as it is voluntary as NO student is forced to take part in the scheme.

 

It is more a matter of parental or student choice.

 

IMHO if the Thai government of whatever colour were to create a professional well paid military (pay the generals pensions until they die off) then the political scene may be completely different, and Thailand could have a military that they could be truly proud of.

So why is it called compulsory defence training and not parental or student choice training?

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

My point is not wrong... because I don't believe in coincidences. This all happened after Thaksin his money was confiscated. He is the financier. Just have fun believing what you want.

No, 2006 is before Thaksin's money was confiscated.

13 minutes ago, robblok said:

The point was baboon, that this group came together because some billionaire lost his money and hired a mob to get it back.... You don't have that much outside Asia. That is my point.

Your point is wrong.

The UDD first formed in 2006 to oppose the military government and the military coup which overthrew the prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

2 minutes ago, scorecard said:

"...The 'secret' of Thaksin and the Reds' success is that they listened to the people in the North and North East ..."

I don't believe that at all.

Believe it or not, it's true.

2 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Additionally in the last several elections the other parties were physically barred from campaigning in the NE and in the North . 

Claptrap.

18 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Many historical political dynasties, that were founded on lot's of little white lies and weren't really democratic in its entirety, got rumbled. And justice wasn't always pleasant. Some were allowed to enjoy the amazingly acquired wealth. Other "family dynasties" faced the wrath of their people. Recent history has some good examples.

 

Just like they romped home in the "safe" seat of Don Meuang By-Election and their telephone pole failed to win the Bangkok governor election! Nothing so uncertain as a political certainty!

You've chosen denial.

Hope it works out well for you.

Don't think it will though.

Bring on the election.

Whilst PTP are a busy rompin, you'll be busy a cryin.