zink

I just wonder about IATA's reasoning when you consider that many other big cities have several airports out of necessity, such as New York, London, Berlin, Tokyo, etc.

Yes, out of necessity. In these citites either is no room to build a large enough airport, or the new large airport has been built too far away from the center of the city.

This of course does not apply to Bangkok, the new airport is as close to city center as Don Muang, and its capacity can be easily doubled by building additional runways and terminals. There is no practical reason why Bangkok needs two airports. Having a single airport would simplify things and reduce costs.

....

Thailand really needs to needs to take a lesson from China where a single entity (the city) manages all mass transport projects.

Isn’t communism wonderful? Probably the most successful form of government in history mankind

How easy people forget.

TH

Communism is not a form government, it's a form of economy. And China abandoned communist economy long time ago, for example private ownership or property and companies (which is allowed in China) goes against the base principle of communism.

i thought the airport link was going to be an extension of the existing BTS system. what the f was i thinking! TIT

so now we have a one and bit line overground ground train, a one line underground train with a different ticket and a long walk between connections and now it sounds like another system for the airport link with its own ticket and not connected to the other 2 systems at all.

has any other major world capital got such a f'ed up public transit system?

maybe the idea is to create more bureaucracy and menial jobs?

Yep ! It makes you realise how powerful the taxi mafia is

Even the Aiport Bus is one the best kept secrets from tourists.

The try their hardest to make it as inconvenient as possible to us public transport

This has little to do with taxi mafia. The problem is that various parts of Bangkok mass transit are owned by different factions. Basically Bangkok owns the skytrain, goverment owns the subway and Thai railways owns this airport link. There are also privately owned riverboats and some bus services. Each party wants to have biggest piece of the pie and is unwilling to share revenue with others. That's why there is no real planning and co-operation in terms of lines, infrastructure, unified tickets, etc.

Thailand really needs to needs to take a lesson from China where a single entity (the city) manages all mass transport projects.

Japanese website is listing 12, 23, and 34m^2 studios. Which one of these is available for 700B/night?

In Bangkok: "Long-term foreign residents include 250,000 mainland Chinese, 85,000 Indians (most of whom are Sikh), of whom more than 80% have dual Thai citizenship,[12] 30,000 Japanese (the largest Japanese population in Asia outside Japan)[citation needed], 25,000 Americans[citation needed], 45,000 Europeans, 15,000 Taiwanese, 20,000 South Koreans, 6,000 Nigerians, 7,500 Australians, 12,000 people of Arabic speaking countries, 20,000 Malaysians, 4,000 Singaporeans, 5,000 Filipinos, and 800 New Zealanders" (from Wikipedia).

Of about half million foreigners listed about 9% are Europeans, 5% Americans and 1.5% Australia/New Zealand.

For tourists in 2005: http://www2.tat.or.th/stat/web/static_index.php

East Asians: 52%

Europeans: 23%

Americans: 6%

Oceania: 4%

The Airport Link will also connect with the Subway. I don't remember if it's at the Rama 9 station or the Petchaburi station. For people staying on Sukhumvit, this might be a better connection than the Phaya Thai BTS station.

Although it's called the Airport Rail Link, it will probably end up serving more commuters than air travelers. I used to work out on Pattangarn Road & this line would have made my commute out there much quicker and easier.

30 minute frequency for commuter trains makes commuting unrealistic. With higher frequencies, airport link would be great for trips within the Bangkok.

The government is unfair when it comes to issuing visas to Americas as they charge us a lot more than any other people on earth.

They do that because its the same amount that the US charges foreigners who apply for a visa to the US; they are far nicer to me than my government is to foreign nationals who want to work in the US.

Why don't they do the same for other nationals? They don't have this same sort of tit-for-tat regulation with any other citizens, only Americans. And it's very strange how they dole out visas, a lot of people don't get one and there's no reason given. They just basically say, "we are not obligated to give anyone a visa or to give you a reason for our refusal either." I was never refused, but I saw quite a few people in line who were being refused.

The amount went up right after the American government sold weapons to Taiwan. So it was a knee-jerk response.

Yes they do. It's not limited just to US.

Does anyone know up to date schedules for buses from Bangkok to Loei and back? I have seen 8.30pm and 10pm departures mentioned from Bangkok, are these times still valid? How about schedules from Loei to Bangkok?

Any hotel recommendations in Loei city (500-1000B price range)? I have found these hotels, but most of them lack website and pictures:

A.P. Court Hotel

Thai Udon Hotel,

King's Hotel

Sun Palace

Royal Inn Hotel

Phu Luang Hotel

I can't help you with the bus since we drove there in a rental car. But we found a wonderful hotel, very cheap that was brand new right in the middle of town. I can't remember the name but I will contact my Thai wife in Phuket and get right back to you on this thread with that information. I can tell you that it is right next to the big trafic circle downtown with a fountain in the middle. The lady who runs that hotel brought us fresh bread and pastries every morning even though there was no restaurant there. I think the price was only 300 baht per night and the place was very nice. My email is thaisail at gmail.com if you want to write direct. My wife is from Loei and she really knows everything about it but I am now in San Francisco so I have to wait for her to wake up to contact her in Phuket.

Thanks all for helpful comments! I would like to get contact information for this hotel if possible.

Thanks for the info, but I'm not interested in how vessels pass each other. I'm interested in going to the pier on the correct side of the river. For example if I travel to east, should I go on the pier at the southern or nortner side?

Apart from Pratunam which has two piers, north and south, every other stop has only one.

The boats will arrive from both the rh and lh side and go in the opposite direction.

For example if I was stood at Asoke pier the boat coming from my right would be heading out of town towards Wat Sribunruang via Khlong Tan and The Mall Bang Kapi.

However the boat coming from my left would be heading into town to Pratunam via Nana and Chitlom.

Basically you need to know if you are going west or east and get the boat coming from the opposite direction.

This simplifies things. Thanks!

Does anyone know up to date schedules for buses from Bangkok to Loei and back? I have seen 8.30pm and 10pm departures mentioned from Bangkok, are these times still valid? How about schedules from Loei to Bangkok?

Any hotel recommendations in Loei city (500-1000B price range)? I have found these hotels, but most of them lack website and pictures:

A.P. Court Hotel

Thai Udon Hotel,

King's Hotel

Sun Palace

Royal Inn Hotel

Phu Luang Hotel

Thanks for the info, but I'm not interested in how vessels pass each other. I'm interested in going to the pier on the correct side of the river. For example if I travel to east, should I go on the pier at the southern or nortner side?

Do boats use right- or left-hand traffic on the NIDA line (Khlong Saen Saep Express Boat)?

There are many weak points in the airport link:

- Connectivity is still poor. MRT station is quite far away from the Makkasan station, and there is no express service connection to the Skytrain. Which means if you want to reach Skytrain from the airport you must take a slow commuter airport train, or take a fast train and then change to MRT and then change to BTS. Both options are very slow.

- Frequencies are horrible (due to braindead design that doesn't have passing tracks for faster trains at every station). Commuter trains are running twice in a hour, which means that there is a 15 minute wait for the train on average!

- No single ticketing system, sure it can be done, but it still hasn't (MRT was opened 5 years ago).

- Price for the express train is ridicilous. Maglev track in Shanghai is longer, has almost 3x speed, uses very expensive technology and the price of the trip is 200B.

This is another example for to take a good idea and implement it in a wrong way. With higher frequencies, single ticketing system and maximum price of 100B airport link would be much more attractive solution.

Yep, nobody will do it. Who wants to lug their bags off a 300B train and to a taxi waiting area, get a taxi, load the bags again... and THEN get to the destination after another 80B fare ?

If I read it correctly, it's only 150B (300B return). So you land at Suvarnabhumi airport and your hotel is in Sukhumvit say. All you have to do is get on the train, change at Phaya Thai and get off at Nana/Asok for 150B + 30B Skytrain. I'd certainly rather do that than get in a taxi, pay at least the same amount + the 50B airport surcharge, get stuck in traffic, get touted round gem shops or some other such scam, get a drunk/sleepy/don't know the way taxi driver. I've had enough dodgy taxi rides in my time living here, from guys falling asleep at the wheel to ones who have to look down at the gear stick when they change gear or take their hands of the wheel to wai a passing buddha shrine at 100kph - the list goes on. I'd be more than happy to never get in a taxi again!

Taking this airport link to Nana/Asok would take more than one hour:

- about 15 minutes to wait a slow train

- 30 minutes trip on a slow train to Phaya Thai

- about 5-10 minutes to transfer to BTS and waiting for a train

- about 20 minutes to reach Nana/Asok from Phaya Thai

So it's a dual-rail in both directions with tracks outside the stations to bypass any congestion caused by the normal trains [that stop at every stations] or is there a completely separate track from and to the two endstations?

Yes, you got it. More details will become available when they are available.

no bypass. its a timing thing trains only ever stop for 30seconds or so at every station. if the trains are 15 min apart the express can never catch up to the train in front the trains will travel at the same speed apart from stoping at the station.

That surely cannot be correct?

If the timing is 15 minutes that means there will only be an Express Train from Suwannabhumi to Makkasan and return every 30 minutes - hardly enough to accomodate passengers on even 20% of the Flights arriving and leaving in that time.

Patrick

Unfortunately it seems to be correct. There is a bypass, but not on every station.

It means that express train can leave every 15 minutes and normal train can leave every 30 minutes:

0:00 First express train leaves

0:00 Normal train leaves just after it

0:15 Second express train leaves

0:15 First express train arrives

0:30 Normal train arrives

0:30 Second express train arrives just after it

Naturally, this means that the system is very error prone, if one train is delayed, then many later trains will be delayed too.

It's strange that Hong Kong is on the that list. Kowloon looks quite similar than Bangkok, there are plenty of power lines, quite old buildings and it isn't very clean. Just look at these pictures:

http://www.spraguephoto.com/stock/images/7...Hong%20Kong.jpg

http://yoda.zoy.org/2001/04-Hong-Kong/20-Kowloon.jpg

If she is a "Mrs" then she is a mamasan and not papasan!

I have heard that Poseidon is an overpriced establishment which also applies a hefty farang surcharge. So we can expect new commerce minister to continue to purchase overpriced goods with taxpayers money while making life difficult for farang businesses?

Explanations mentioned here don't make any sense. Airport passenger service charges are not the reason, since the airline must pay charges to LHR also for passenger who is travelling Paris-London-Bangkok. Actually, in that case service charges are higher since there are three airports to pay charges instead of just two.

Currency fluctuations are also not a reason, since the same phenomenon exists even if the same currency is used.

The real reason is that airlines are "ripping off" passengers which want to fly directly. This applies to ALL major carriers across the world, not just Brits. Here is an example from Thai airways website:

Singapore - Bangkok - London: total price: 38,084.98 THB

Bangkok - London for the same days: total price: 54,550.00 THB

If you want to save money flying from London, check other European or Middle East carriers instead of BA/QF.

Then you can easily explain how comes that BKK SkyTrain (built by Siemens) is more expensive than some similar distance in Tokyo?

Shinjuku-Shinagawa, takes 15 minutes, has 6 stops, the train hits 120km/h. Could be distance between Saphan Thaksin and Suvarnabhumi airport.

Price? 160Yen, about 50-55 baht. The cheapest ticket is 120Yen, 40B, for half that.

Take a compaable distance (On Nut - Saphan Thaksin) as an example. What would that be? 40 baht? That is 120 Yen.

Surprisingly, that same distance would be 30B on Tokyo Yamanote line.

The carriages themselves are not the major cost, they can be built in China (as Chinese own are, licensed and supervised by Shinkansen).

When it comes to operating that sophisticated equipment and network, wage difference between Thailand and Japan becomes negligible.

Travelers will have to pay what it cost, as they do pay for Sky Train,

With 6 stops and only 15 minutes travel time, the distance can't be too long even if the maximum speed of the train is high.

According to your information: minimum ticket price is 30-40B in Japan while it's about 15B in Bangkok and 10B in several Chinese cities. Maximum price is about 40-45B in Bangkok, what is the maximum price in Tokyo? I think it would be over 100B. There is a significant price difference here in my opinion....

I'm not saying that high-speed trains would be automatically successful in Thailand. But price isn't the reason why they wouldn't work (just look at China which has lower GDP per capita).

What does the price of plane ticket on Tokyo-BKK route have to do with the price of the trains within a country?

Given identical equipment, identical route and weather, somehow it does not show that Thai crews earn less than Japanese crews opeating the same route and same aircraft. Contrary, as TG is more expensive than Japanese carriers, one would thing Thais earn more!

Generally, when it comes to high tech, what can be saved in lower wages is eaten up by lower efficiency.

In free market (as when international airlines are competing for the same route) price is determined by the supply and demand and competition and not by the actual costs. It would be stupid for Thai airways to charge significantly less than Japanese airlines, even if Thai's costs would be much lower.

The Shinkansen (Hikari type, older than the newest Nozomi 700) from Tokyo to Nagoya goes about that - 200km/h - and the price for the 360km ride is about 4000 (4 thousand) baht. There is still a levy on petrol to pay for the cost of Shinkansen.

Many takers in Thailand for a 4000B ride between, say, Bangkok and Surat Thani?

Big difference between offering free train rides today and Shinkansen type of service in 20 years....

In a case you haven't noticed, everything is much more expensive in Japan. More valid comparison would be China, where high-speed trains are relatively cheap. Fastest traditional train route launched for olympics is running at 350kmph.

Where should I get educated about how expensive Japan is?

If last 5 years of living in Japan have not been enough, I must be a hopeless case.

Why is then Thai Airways on par or slightly more expensive than Japan Airlines and ANA from Tokyo to BKK?

Why are the very same products at the Emporium 10-15% more expensive then in similar shop in Tokyo?

What does the price of plane ticket on Tokyo-BKK route have to do with the price of the trains within a country?

And how do you know that 350km train is cheap? The government is subsidising it as they do pay for China space programs, nobody would make a sqeek in protest.

I have travelled by high-speed train in China... no, I didn't pay 4000B for 350km trip.

Goverment is subsiding all types of transport everywhere in the world by building the infrastructure (roads, rails and airports).

Here is a hint why train ticket are more expensive in Japan:

- Japanese workers earn a "bit" more than workers in China or Thailand

- Japanese trains a "bit" more expensive than trains made in China

The Shinkansen (Hikari type, older than the newest Nozomi 700) from Tokyo to Nagoya goes about that - 200km/h - and the price for the 360km ride is about 4000 (4 thousand) baht. There is still a levy on petrol to pay for the cost of Shinkansen.

Many takers in Thailand for a 4000B ride between, say, Bangkok and Surat Thani?

Big difference between offering free train rides today and Shinkansen type of service in 20 years....

In a case you haven't noticed, everything is much more expensive in Japan. More valid comparison would be China, where high-speed trains are relatively cheap. Fastest traditional train route launched for olympics is running at 350kmph.

Both airports have a train connection (to different train stations), so if you have a lot of time, you can take this option: take train to the center, take subway/taxi to another train station, take train to the airport.

Sorry, but Thailand is much cheaper than Australia or any other Western type of country. Once you pay for the plane ticket, the rest is mostly all gravy.

Your mileage may vary. Look around you. For the type of traveler who comes to say, Chiang Mai, and stays at hotels like The Four Seasons or The Chedi, it's assuredly not a cheaper holiday than in the West. Granted that I am stacking the deck using those examples, but the poster who mentioned things not being necessarily cheap in Thailand specifically pointed to the higher end tourist market.

If you look at higher end of the market, you should compare it to higher end market in western countries. Have you checked how much 5-star hotel costs at mediterranean? Here is one example of daily rate of almost 20000B: http://www.ghotw.com/hotel/rates/blau-porto-petro.htm , I'm sure you can find much more expensive examples.

Same applies to food, it's much, much cheaper in Thailand. A modest dinner in an ordinary restaurant (nothing fancy) costs easily 20 euros (1000B) per person in tourist areas in Greece/Italy/Spain. In Thailand same costs maybe about 300B...

So, I'm wondering if anyone has had a similar experience lately with trying to change the date of an already purchased ticket/reservation. EVA's interpretation of that came as quite a surprise... and I wasn't going to give them an extra $175....on top of the already expensive RT ticket price...

And,with the way ticket prices are soaring, I may not be making trips back to the USA quite so often as has been my practice the past couple years...

Why it came as a surpise to you? It's quite obvious that if you change the date with any airline, you will pay rebooking fee AND any price difference between the new ticket and the old ticket.

EURUSD = 1.5610

USDJPY = 100.06

Soon we will have USDTHB = 25 once again...