Weasel100

All of this discussion I think has been useful and I've followed it for the past day since I appear to have kicked off a lot of it with my long and hopefully not uninteresting post yesterday morning about my experiences in Thailand since I moved here nearly seven years ago.
What it all comes down to is that some falangs appear to be very happy living in Thailand while others, like me, have a hard time here but just IN SOME WAYS.
Most of my problem is with the attitudes that most Thais appear to have to life and money and basic honesty. Their religion, like most other religions, teaches them good ways to live a life and five basic things that they should not do:

• harming living things.
• taking what is not given.
• sexual misconduct.
• lying or gossip.
• taking intoxicating substances eg drugs or drink.

I may be wrong but I suspect that something around 80 to 90 per cent of Thais would, if asked, claim to be good Buddhists. If I am right, this to me illustrates huge hypocrisy as I believe that probably 80 per cent of Thais routinely lie and gossip, 50 per cent take intoxicating substances such as alcohol, tobacco and illicit drugs, most Thai males at least could be said to lead sexually dissolute lives and a significant percentage of Thais appear to have no trouble with taking money improperly through scams and dishonest business dealings. The only one of the five basic tenets that, to me, appears to be observed by a large proportion of Thais appears to be that dealing with not harming living things. But, even there, there are problems.
A few years ago, a falang friend near where I live had a dog that developed a nasty and obviously cancerous tumour on its side. It had been confirmed to be malignant. The tumour grew to such an extent that it ruptured one morning so I loaded the dog and my falang friend into my car and drove to a Veterinary Teaching Hospital near where we live. They recommended treatment despite the fact that the dog was clearly suffering and was about to die. Not even the staff at a Veterinary Hospital were prepared to do what was necessary and put the poor dog out of its terrible distress. And no, this was not a case for treatment; it was a case for euthenasia. So, that's where the one tenet of the Buddhist religion which appears to be followed by most Thais can also cause a bad result.
And, please, I am well aware that quite possibly the majority of professed Christians don't follow the good things that whatever their brand of Christianity demands or recommends. There is hypocrisy everywhere.

But, my friends, here's the difference. In Western countries, dishonest people who go into business are not allowed to deal with their clients dishonestly or, if they do, they will find themselves in trouble with Police and Government regulatory agencies that do actually give a shit about shady businesses and prosecute them when they're found. There is little if any protection at all for people in Thailand who find that they've been ripped off by Thais as happens so very often here in my view. The Police are corrupt and useless and no Government agency wants to get involved in such things particularly when there's money to be made through back-handers.

I MUST STRESS that these are simply my observations of Thais and Thai society after having lived in Thailand for close to seven years. If others have had different experiences and do not agree with anything I've said, then that's great and fine. Everyone is entitled to an opinion so please don't seek to deny me mine.
I confess that I am a loner by nature; I always have been, even as a small boy. I cope with the problems that I have living in Thailand by keeping very much to myself. I see my one local falang friend for a few hours every week or ten days but otherwise I spend the great majority of my time at home alone.

I have plenty to keep me amused with a very large collection of DVDs and Blu-rays (I don't have TV service because I don't want any possibility of getting Thai TV shit in my house), and I have books and musical instruments that I fiddle about with.

This may sound like a pretty sad sort of life to many others but it works for me so that's all that really matters. It's fine for me and for my Thai wife whom I love to bits and who I'm quite sure loves me too (and not just the money that I have).
Am I (un)happy in Thailand. No, not really.  It's just that there are so many ways in which Thailand could be much better if it really wanted to be.

Let's just agree to disagree here.
If you were me and chose to hand over your pension money to a new Thai wife, that's your decision. It's not one that I've made or will make in the future.
Through the extraordinarily beneficial superannuation scheme under which my Australian Government pension is paid, if we are still married at the time I pass from this world, my Thai wife will be entitled to 67 per cent of whatever benefit I receive at the time of my death, subject to CPI adjustment twice a year.

So, she will be well cared for financially by me before I go and by the Australian Government when I'm gone.
Not a bad outcome for a Thai lady I'd suggest. 

Just now, AYJAYDEE said:

your married, its "our' money

So, I receive a pension from Australia after 30 years of hard work there. And THAT becomes my wife's money when I come to Thailand and marry her. Forgive me but that's a very old fashioned way of looking at it.
As it is, I provide for both my Thai wife and I very well. She has nothing to complain about  

1 minute ago, AYJAYDEE said:

and do you insist on a say on how she spends the money?

 

I don't understand the question. I've already said that my wife has no involvement in my finances. Are you asking whether I try to involve myself in how she spends her money. If so, the answer is a clear no. If I don't want my wife telling me how to spend my money, then I would hardly expect her to tolerate my interfering in her financial affairs

Look people. It all comes down to two things.
1  the fact that 80 per cent of Thais care nothing for anything but money, and
2 plain old fashioned greed.
There are good cab drivers (just a couple of days ago my Thai wife and I encountered two of then in BKK) but generally they are a greedy avaricious pack of bastards and I use taxis in BKK ONLY if I can't walk or use the MRT/BTS to where I want to go

I am by no means "infantalised" although I do understand what you mean. I am my own man and the sole boss of my finances which is I admit something that my Thai wife has had trouble understanding over the years that we've been together. I often have to remind her that she has absolutely no place in my financial affairs and that her thoughts and opinions about how I should spend my money are neither wanted nor welcome.
Nonetheless, as I've said, she is the most honest person I know (including yours truly) and has never once in nearly six years tried to take any money from me that was not freely given. I am very fortunate to have someone like Noo to help me cope with all that life in Thailand throws at me (not to baby me).

12 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

If I had to tip a taxi driver 100b for being honest and using the meter I might as well hail one of the crooked cabs...they calculate the fare and the tip together.

 

The only people I tip in thailand are the clean room ladies...they work bloody hard for a pittance.

Yes, I agree with that. And they don't prostitute themselves.

It's very simple really. All those bastards in Pattaya who are refusing to use their taxi meters are breaking the law and they should be in trouble with the authorities. But, this is Thailand we're talking about where any laws can be broken at will with no consequences at all, especuially if small or large amounts on money change hands.

Ever tried calling the 1584? taxi complaints hotline in BKK with a complaint about a taxi or taxi driver? I have tried several times and never had a call answered by anyone at all so it's my conclusion that the 'phone(s) is/are not even monitored for calls.
The complaints "hotline" is very likely a result of some senior Thai official being sent on a junket fact finding tour in the West. He or she has to bring back some idea so he or she settles on a taxi complaints hotline. OK, now we're cooking. Except that this is Thailand where such things cost money, in this case to staff and answer 'phone complaints. We don't really want to pay wages to people for something like that and we don't want to have to deal with complaints so let's just pretend to have a complaints hotline while not actually giving the slightest shit about customer satisfaction or service.
That's the simple fact in Thailand. No-one except expats gives the slightest shit about anything.
"Give me the money: I don't give a shit". It should be Thailand's national motto

22 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Ever thought that your Thai wife is the problem... and because you can't understand what Thai people (including you wife) are saying in front of you very face you just believe her that EVER Thai is ripping you off?  

 

We are a farang couple.  No Thai wife.  I learnt to speak Thai because I needed too. In 12 years living here full time, building 3 houses, living in various rented places, and all areas of buying things I have NEVER been ripped off or lied to.  In fact, I found the Thai people, and the Burmese builders, very trustworthy.  The only habit they have that is frustrating is if there is some problem they are shy to say anything about it and this causes confusion and misunderstands about motives, as they are afraid to tell us things like mistakes or that will disappoint us because of loss of face stuff. 

 

Concerning your relationship.... stop relying on your Thai wife to baby you!!!

 

Because I can speak Thai I have witnesses on several occasions a Farang husband being lied to by their (usually X bar girl) wife... when they are saying to the husband they need more money for building work, purchases, services etc, then the Thai people are asking for, and the husband blindly believing her.. and falling out with the other Thai people, neighbours and relatives. 

 

I have also seen the husband instruct the wife to tell the Thai workers or shop staff something... then she tells them something totally different... only to tell the husband she did what he asked, and he gets angry at the poor Thai people trying to do their job... (and they will not want to upset the farang wife either due to the face thing).

 

 

 

 

I am not allowing my Thai wife to baby me. She's as honest as the day is long and she simply helps me to deal with things.
I know what you're talking about but it's really not the case in my relationship with my wife.
I would never ever even have considered a relationship with a bar girl. Prostitution is morally wrong and I'll have no part of it

Sad isn't it that, for many of us, life here is only made tolerable by, variously it appears, alcohol or something stronger or masturbation.
Look, I'm not truly unhappy here or I WOULD pack up and go home. It's just that there is so much about Thai society and Thai people and the Thais' couldn't give a shit attitude that just drives me crazy. This could be a much better country if the majority of Thai people were honest in their business dealings, stopped lying all the time (and let's not have any of that crap about lying being acceptable in this culture as a face saving device - lying is lying is lying), if Government actually gave a shit about road safety, if the Police were not corrupt to the core and if Thailand had a forward looking attitude to the world and its place in it.
 

1 minute ago, Media1 said:

Criminals no schooling easy taxi licence here. WANT to earn like doctors. 

Anybody refuses meter should be stripped of licence. No warnings given. They are extorting people and have no business being employed. In regards to samui go live there goose.

Agree totally Media1

17 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

@Weasel100

 

I have experienced almost all of the sentiments you expressed in your excellent post. I would offer the following feedback.

 

Regarding your sense of never being able to let down your guard because someone is constantly trying to rip you off, the way I manage this problem is to verify prices beforehand, comparison shop, put stuff in writing, review specifications carefully, and get recommendations from Thai neighbors and friends about vendors and service providers. Slowly over time I think I have established a reputation locally as someone who can not be easily taken advantage of, but that's certainly not to suggest that I haven't been taken advantage of plenty of times along the way.

 

You mentioned the lack of English proficiency in Thailand, which begs the question about your proficiency in Thai. Please note that most of the above advice about how to avoid getting ripped off requires at least a basic proficiency in Thai in order to communicate what you need and what your expectations are. I also wanted to share with you that I have often been really surprised when complaining to Thai neighbors and friends about being ripped off or overcharged by how often I am told by them that the vendor has a similar reputation among Thai people for overcharging Thai people. 'Kaw khit paang' (He charges a lot) they always say, so it's not always because you're a foreigner that you're being overcharged. Not saying foreigners aren't sometimes overcharged here because they definitely are, but it's important not to go overboard in the paranoia department.

 

Regarding consumer protections, I make most of my major purchases through major retailers which have more consumer friendly return policies, and try to do research beforehand on the product I am in the market for so as not be overly reliant on the advice of the sales clerk helping me who may have a different agenda other than helping me select the best appliance for my needs. Regarding traffic safety, agree 100% that this is a huge problem. You have to compensate for this by slowing down and driving more defensively than you otherwise would.

 

In summary, I'd say the feeling that you don't know who you can trust over here is a fairly common reaction most people have at one time or another experienced here. I guess I'm trying to encourage you by reporting that it is possible to work through that distrust and get to a place where transactions involving money are less stressful and less likely to result in feelings you've been ripped off.  My sense is that this is possible for you. The direction I would point you in is better preparation before transactions and improving your language skills so as to be better able to communicate your needs and expectations. Good luck.

 

 

Thanks Gecko
I agree with what you say and I admit that Thai language is not a strong point for me. But please understand that it is precisely because I have had so many terrible experiences in dealing with Thais that leaves me without any real desire to improve my Thai language skills. Lazy? Certainly. Understandable? I hope so.
And I also have to say that it a huge advantage for me to have my Thai wife who is obviously fluent in her own language.
It's interesting that when we met my little wife had a very different attitude to business dealings with Thais. Now, after some six years together, she gets increasingly exasperated and borders on angry with the Thais that she deals with on our behalf and who try to rip me off via her. And trust me, this happens almost all the time.
I am not a stupid person and I do my research and try to get things nailed down before I enter into business transactions with Thais. But, even when I have believed that my wife and I have a proper understanding with a Thai who is to do work for us, lies and deceptions almost always follow and it's always me who ends up being ripped off, despite my efforts to avoid that happening. 
Thanks again for your comments and your element of support for what I was trying to say in my original post.

9 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Should just give them the ATM password; that's what they really want.

You're right Chris. I said in another thread here earlier today that 80 per cent of Thais are interested in only three things in life - money, money and money

Just now, Jack P said:

Cabbies ought to be able to charge whatever they like for their services, but the price needs to be transparent to the customer.

No. They are subject to cab laws and must comply. End of story

19 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

Have to honestly say I'm glad not to have your experiences or your overall outlook......If I did I'd constantly be swiveling my head waiting for the next anxiety attack....Not a good way to live.....

You're right. It's not a good way to live but it is a fact and a result of my psyche and what I perceive here in Thailand

Just another example of Thai people ignoring the law in order to make more money for themselves.
I agree entirely with a comment above. Comply with the law, use your <deleted>' meter and don't rip people off. If you're not making enough money from being a cab driver (3,000 baht a day?), try another non skilled job and make 300 baht a day.
The relative costs of living in Bangkok or Pattaya or Samui is quite irrelevant. The law is the law and can drivers have to comply. But, hey, this is Thailand where the law is the law only if you agree with it and choose to follow it.
I hate taxi drivers in Bangkok. Often they refuse fares which they are NOT allowed by law to do and often they give foreign passengers a Cook's tour of the Capital.
Thankfully, we don't have cabs in Hua Hin area.