Talisman

LaoPo: Totally agree with you regarding the comfort of silk duvets. Trouble is; I have not been able to find a supplier in Thailand!

Would anyone know of such a Thai supplier please?

Cheers Udon: 1500B at Tesco Lotus in Roi Et.

G,day.

Anyone happen to know: where I can buy a double bed sized duvet around these parts?

Ta in advance.

Hi: This is a really informative thread. Nice sounding lives you have up there in Isan: sounds just like my cup of tea. The other half is from Khao Wong, up in Kalasin Province, and I am planning on spending a month or two up there, in her family home, just after Christmas.

Could you guys give me any idea of a monthly budget please?

Just looking forward to some quiet R&R: quality time with the family and daughters! First time up there, so any advice would be really appreciated.

As a Buddhist, I always try and comply with the five precepts: Here is my problem;

Some people interpret the first precept as meaning: we must not kill other sentient beings!

Another interpretation being: that we should not harm other sentient beings!

I fish for sport; therefore I release any fish caught: so I do not kill! But am I harming a fish, in releasing it unharmed???

You don't have anything to lose as each visa application is judged on its own merits, so a refusal of a visit visa won't, per se, jeopardise a subsequent settlement application.

Thanks Scouse: thats exactly what I needed to hear: nothing at risk other than some potential disappointment, and maybe a few bob!

I will start researching this evening: If it works out, then its all plus points, not least of which is more "relationship time" on the clock for purposes of determining an SV application!

I may have more questions; sorry in advance!

Much food for thought here: a few more points if I may?

You will lose nothing by waiting-except of course the possibility that on the evidence you have the officer would issue a visa-but the certainty of that issue will be far more concrete in a while.

Srisatch; you make a good point! This if you think about it; is just a game of chess with human consequences! We have no choice in playing the game, but as amateurs we may risk making a premature attack before all our pieces are fully developed! Of course, the result of loosing means a draconian result for the visa applicant! To fully develop my pieces, will take six months but no more: therefore I have no choice; We will apply in six months with all necessary supporting documents! I will develop the pieces!

You should keep detailed records of all contact between the two of you, your bank accounts, your hackney carriage business and particularly all remittances to Thailand when you are in the UK. It appears to me that your continuing documented financial support of the family is important.

Taken onboard: I shall endevour to have a rock-solid file of supporting evidence!

I agree with others about the children..why leave them behind when you do apply-not for 6 months but for settlement-?

We will both give this important matter a great deal of thought! You need the wisdom of Soliman for this one, and it really does come down to what is best for the children! I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who has faced the same predicament: I am very interested in how the kids adapted to life in the UK, away from the Grandparents! Relocating them would be extremely traumatic, not only for them, but also for the grandparents with whom they have resided for nearly four years!

But as GU22 noted:

The younger they are when they come to live in the UK, the easier they will find it to adapt. I think I agree with that, and it would be a lot less traumatic for a 4 year old, than a 9 year old:

In regard to a sole custody order: she has one! After the divorce, and after the father remarried; both parents continued to work in Sony Bankok for three years, but she found it to traumatic being on the same production line as the husband, so she took a much lower paid job in a shop, which meant 2000B a month living expences, and 2000B being sent home!

The ampur granted a sole custody order in favour of the mother on the grounds of abandonment and failure to support! The family took the decision that they did not want the ex to have contact with the children, as he was failing to support them in any way at all! That’s different to an approach that a UK court would have taken, but that’s the way it actually panned out, and importantly the children accepted it, and are looking forward to having a new father figure: You know how pragmatic Thais can be, including young children!

srisatch AND gu22 raise a valid point, and obtaining a visit visa for her first may be a very good idea.

However, as she has no concrete reason to return (children don't count) then this will depend on how genuine the ECO feels the relationship to be. Basically, if the ECO feels that the relationship is genuine and therefore the reason for the visit is genuine then the ECO will also feel that she would not want to put any future settlement visa in jeopardy by overstaying a visit. However, if the ECO is not satisfied about the relationship then it is unlikely that a visit visa would be issued.

Further, although the ECO may accept 2 pre teen girls sharing a room, three may cause overcrowding issues to be raised.

The Aunts daughter actually has the prospect of things working out just right! The aunt who is now 18 ( the Mrs is 30, and I am an old fart of 46 summers) has returned home with a new long-term boyfriend and husband to be, and he seems a steady type of guy and a good un! The bad news is; that whilst he loves all the kids: she has not got around to telling boyfriend and daughter the good news: shes the mother! This is bound to happen sooner or later, and I think this guys going to be just fine about it: The long suffering type, just like me!

Now having put the Settlement application on ice until the necessary profile has been set in concrete: you have both given me reason to think about an option, that I was very keen upon; but then dismissed due to the shift of emphasis regarding burden of proof: from me to the Mrs. Visitors Visas and “ sufficient reason to return !”

I know that it would be a months R&R for us both, and a chance for her and my folks to look look; but knowing the background what do you think an ECO is going to think?? We obviously would comply and not overstay as we are looking for a long term solution, and would not wish to jeapordise that!

The only facts that you don’t know is that the family home was left to her by her grandmother! We are talking a house in Isan with a small shop attached, in which the whole family reside! She also has a five year old pickup truck as the family met the payments after papa headed west! She has zero savings, and you know the rest!

Fire away if you can Gents: Balance of probabilities on an ECO granting a VV pending a later SV application! Please don’t pull your punches! Do we have anything to loose other than a bit of disappointment: I am of course referring to potentially jeapordising the future SV application in regard to a refused VV!

Again; many thanks to you both for your thoughts based upon a great deal of experience: absolutely invaluable to people like myself!

It would appear that for want of a better expression: “The six month rule,” is going to be present in the mind of the ECO during any interview! I don’t think that this is a problem in our personal case!

She knows that I have to work for a living, and that I need to be responsible in building up a bit of a slush fund, after all that travelling! I have also informed her that in my opinion we are looking at six-months, and whilst she would prefer to be with me right now, she has been aware of this six-month figure for some time, and has mentally accepted that time period!

I am also happy that she has the opportunity to spend some quality time with her children before coming to the UK! By this I mean; she can enjoy the children without the necessity to work away: Her parents have a small Isan village shop attached to the property: No great money-spinner, but it provides enough to feed the family!

Now it’s my turn to answer a question:

May I ask about the plans for her children. Once it was obvious that we were serious about each other, my wife made it clear that she came as a package with her children. If I forced her to choose between me or her children then she would choose them. For my part, I don't think I could love a woman who would be prepared to abandon her children.

However, we were lucky. Despite initially living with my parents there was room for her daughter as well. (After much discussion and soul searching we agreed that her son, who had just started university, should do what he wished, which was remain in Bangkok and continue his studies.)

So, I understand that for many couples where the Thai partner has children it is a matter of the parent coming now and the kids later, when suitable accommodation has been found.

Though as your parents have a four bedroomed house, does this mean that there will be a spare room? If your wife's children are the same sex, or of each sex but very young (sorry, I forget the age limit), then they could share this bedroom and so come now.

The reason I am bringing them up is that if the children apply for settlement at the same time as the parent then it strengthens the parent's case. Basically, and bluntly, if she was going to do a runner to a brothel in London once she arrived here then she wouldn't be bringing her children too!

I also feel that having her children with her will help her settle into life in the UK. One of the biggest problems when a foreign partner arrives is loneliness and homesickness, especially from family centric cultures such as Thailand. I know that, even though her daughter was with her, my wife missed her son and he twin sister terribly. Five years later, despite the phone and regular visits, she still does!

Sorry, I've wandered off at a tangent there! When, or indeed whether, her children come to live with you is a matter for you and her. However, even if they are not coming at the same time as their mother, they must be included in the relevant section of the application form. Not doing so will jeopardise any future visa application of theirs, even if it's just for a visit.

Yes of course you may ask: here is my take on it so far!

As is sometimes the case: The ex-husband having fathered two children, suddenly upped sticks and left her to her own devices! Apparently the guy desperately wanted a son, and shortly after the birth of the second daughter; he left without providing support and soon after remarried!

I am informed that she would not then allow the father to see the children, and some type of order was made to prevent him doing so! Just to complicate things a little: she is also raising a sisters daughter of the same age as her youngest: the sister whom I have met is not a strong person psychologically, and she had the child when she was only fourteen!

So we have two daughters aged 4 and 9, and the sisters daughter aged 4: the child will be informed of the true situation when she is old enough to understand: at the moment she believes that the mrs is her natural mother!

As is often the case in such situations; Grandmother is the person who ends up looking after the kids, while the daughter goes off to work: In this case it meant that the kids were looked after by the grandparents for four years!

My take on it is this: Great kids are great kids, whoever the father is; and I have always felt that such children are an asset in terms of the happiness they give, as opposed to a potential for matrimonial conflict! As a lawyer in a past life, I was always impressed by The Children Act 1989; based upon the simple presumption, that “ The childs welfare is paramount,” and that any other factor takes second place!

I would dearly love to have all three children reside in the UK, but at this stage I am not sure that this would be the best thing for them personally: though perhaps the time will come when it becomes the right time! The Mrs has the same point of view at the moment, though that may well change with time!

As long as the family has enough money to live well, by which I mean pay the bills, have a good diet, afford any medical bills, and pay that little extra for good schools: It appears that children in Thailand have a very happy childhood indeed!

I just cannot see them having as much freedom in the UK, as the pre-teenagers seem to enjoy in Isan! At the moment they love their new school and friends, and love the freedom of village life, noting that other than there being five adults watching over them, they are also under the collective care of every female in the village: not a bad childhood in my eyes, and thank god the village does not seem to have an amphetamine problem amongst the youngsters yet!

As I hope that we can visit Isan as much as the terms of the ILR allow (perhaps twice a year for a few weeks?) I hope that this, combined with the daughters coming to the UK on holidays, will allow us to get an idea of whats best for the kids! We will just have to tackle this one as we go along, but I must say I do not like the way that many kids (not all obviously) are turning out in the UK at the moment, and many seem to miss out on an old-fashioned childhood!

Bottom line: I don’t actually know whats best, and neither yet does the Mrs: There is indeed room for them, and I would love to have them, but I really do not want to mess up a nice childhood! Will have to play that one by ear, and leave the Mrs make the decision: I just don’t know that much about kids, and mothers always knows best in any case! We will definately take your advice regarding including the kids on the settlement visa application; I would not wish to prejudice any future holiday/settlement visa by making that error: many thanks indeed!

Anyway: A bit of human interest there, and sorry for the long post! Your help has been invaluable, and I am very gratefull indeed to you both, for your kindness and patience in explaining the factual position to me!

I hope that you will not mind, if I ask more questions closer to getting hitched in Bangers, and also at the time of the visa application itself???

Best of luck for the moment, and please keep up the excellent and invaluable advice that you freely give to people!!! If you should happen to think of any other usefull advice, please fire away

First of all: very many thanks for such prompt and informative replies!

Could I please ask for clarification on a few points that are still unclear to me?

I guess my feelings at this stage are: I would prefer to wait until I definitely comply with an ECO’s guidelines, rather than leave it to that person to make an incorrect subjective value judgement, with the consequences that may result from such a decision! Not satisfied – refusal –appeal etc!

My present thoughts go something like this, and please correct me if I am obviously wrong:

In regards to the person in the UK, being able to support both parties!

I now understand (thanks guys) that there is a minimum realistic figure, subject to an individual’s personal circumstances! Looks like I satisfy that aspect!

But then there is the problem of substantiating that fact: Bank account statements!

Does the guideline say three months, or six??? Going by your gut feeling, should I have the Mrs submit the application in three or six months???

In regards to the need to satisfy an ECO, that:

Remember, it is not your intentions that the ECO will be concerned with, but hers. The question in the ECOs mind will be "Have they known each other long enough for the relationship to be genuine?" Provide as much evidence of the relationship as you can, lots of photos of the two of you together, phone bills, e-mails etc.

Again: going by your gut feeling; Within three months, we will have spent two month long periods together (one of which will be in the family home), and actually known each other for six months. Then you have the daily phonecalls! Is this likely to satisfy an ECO deciding whether we have “ known each other long enough for the relationship to be genuine????"

I have very few photographs at the moment (managed to travel from India to Afghanistan without taking a single photo: sad I know, but I prefer memories). Can I remedy this by taking loads of photographs during the next visit???

In terms of commitement: I decided that I wanted to help the family as much as possible! By which I mean if anyone needs a doctor, then I will cover the cost! Similarly; I covered the modest cost of sending her two kids to a slightly better village school! She doesn’t want me to send anything more than a very modest subsistance for her and the kids, but I like to do what I can! I obviously do not do this for any other reason than it feels right to do so, but now I wonder if this has a hidden benefit in showing “commitement” when an ECO is deliberating on that matter???

Don't be put off applying because the embassy asks for various documents which you are currently unable to provide. The embassy, in making their decision, is bound by the immigration rules and, on the assumption that you can otherwise manifest that you meet the criteria, there is nothing stopping your wife-to-be applying as soon as she wishes.

She wishes to apply ASAP; but knowing what you now know: what do you reckon gives us the best chance of a first attempt success? Three months, Six months or even longer?????

Thanks again guys, and sorry to labour the above points; just want to get it right first time!!!!

Hi Guys!

Sorry to hit you with all this in my first post, but I would be gratefull if any of you kind folks could clarify a few points for me!

After a fair bit of travelling around the middle and far East, I have fairly recently returned to the UK. I intend to head back to LOS during June, at which time I will marry my Thai G/f in Bangkok before spending the rest of the month up in Isan!

The first question being: I am having difficulty finding my old divorce certificate! If I cannot find it, how do I meet the embassies requirement for the original copy?

Having married the young lady; we intend to apply for a UK Settlement visa at the earliest opportunity. I think this is unfortunately going to take at least six months, and here's why!

In regards to my ability to support the pair of us: I have just bought a Hackney Carriage, and working a 5 day week gives me around £300 per week net profit! I know that if I knocked myself out, I could double that, but do I need to?

The second question being: is that £300 enough to satisfy the ability to support requirement? How much do they regard as sufficient?

The third question being: As I have only just opened a UK Bank account; will I have to wait 3/6 months before I can submit the application, due to the neccessity to provide bank statements?

I am fortunate in having a self-contained, two-room apartment in my parents house (four bedrooms)! I have their full blessings in regard to living there with my future wife! It doesn't actually cost me anything, but I give my folks £100 a week as a thank you! They own their property outright, and written confirmation that we can stay there as long as we like is not a problem!

The fourth question is: will this satisfy the accommodation aspect?

The fifth question being: Have I missed anything connected with the application that is likely to bite me in the arse? I have known the young lady for precisely one month, but I am old enough and ugly enough to know a good one when I meet one Am I likely to get any adverse inference from this brief period together, or does the marriage negate that factor, or is it not relevant at all! I will also be spending June with her, and I have three months of phone records showing two half hour phone calls every day for that period! She also texts like a obsessive texter, but we dont do emails (she doesnt have a pc) and I haven't written a letter in years! Whats says you?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give! Everything that I know has been gleaned from this site, and Scouser & GU22 in particular; your bloods good enough to bottle: many thanks indeed for all your good work!