Sunmaster

25 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

Ok so to finalise  , you cant provide  any real  facts/evidence at all, any thats  peer  reviewed and scientific not  just mumbo  jumbo from similar mumbo  jumbo ley line, chai worshipping sites, what you can do is  quote  vagueness and nothingness, but thats  par for the course when questioning such "beliefs"

And to summarize your amazing contributions: ????????????

52 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

No.  I've seen too many people die to have any doubts about it.  Nothing after.  Just death. 

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. However, what you've seen is the death of the physical body. Nobody came back to tell you what comes after that.

11 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Just  line after  line of  mumbo jumbo thats  all  your'e  saying, no evidence is  being shown and when requested we  appear to  not be able to "see" or  "listen"

Show me some relevant repeatable facts and stop quoting  what can only be described as total crap.

1. I have told you you can easily find proof for yourself, yet you keep asking me to provide proof for you on a silver plate and spoon feed you. This would not work anyways, as you say, you don't believe in what others tell you. 

2. I'm not your personal google. If your thirst for knowledge were genuine, you would get off your lazy ass and actually do something about it. 

3. Whatever you decide you do with your life, have fun, respect and and be kind to others.

No, you said it has nothing to do with energy, that's where you are wrong.

The people who founded acupuncture claimed otherwise. They didn't know anything about hormones and compounds. How did they discover the meridians in your opinion?
Science now gives another explanation, also valid, but that doesn't exclude the notion of energy. 

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Acupuncture has a scientific explanation. Hormones and enzymes are released from muscles which are punctured by the needles. Said compounds assist in alleviating pain and healing. Imaginary energy lines have nothing to do with it.

Wrong

1 minute ago, gunderhill said:

Why do you feel the need to "know who you are"

Finally a good question.

I guess it's because I'm a curious person, I want to know why I am the way I am. That includes my upbringing, my relationships to my parents, the psychological strategies I developed growing up, how all that influences me and my surrounding. 
The deeper you go, the more you find. And when you go deep enough, you'll see that we are not living in a bubble, cut off from the world, but we are all connected. Everything is connected.
Spirituality is just a word that describes this quest for knowledge. 
To find yourself is to find God.

1 minute ago, gunderhill said:

What does "having a  vision"  have to do with a god? apart from creating yet another fantasy being.

It has a lot to do with it. I would be glad to explain it to you but I fear I would just waste my time.

More important things than knowing who you really are?
I can't think of anything even remotely as important.

Sleeping is very different from a deep meditative state. Even science can easily measure that.

3 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

I  would  seek corroborative advice and not really on my own "vision" and that  doesnt mean from  billions who just have "faith"

The  human brain is well able  to  hallucinate and fabricate the world  around it.

I agree. You do that, and maybe you find out that your vision was not as crazy and meaningless as you might think and that others had similar visions, and can repeat those visions at will. 

 

1 minute ago, gunderhill said:

 

But there you go again now let me guess  "i  just need to open my  mind" or "have faith" etc etc

Absolutely not!
Don't have faith, find out by yourself! That's the whole point of Spirituality.

Do a test, sit down, close your eyes and see how long you can go without a thought popping up. Try
 

3 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

You cant really rely on "personal experience" thats  how  many  of these crackpot  religions started in the first  place.

Can you rely on your own personal experience?

6 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

More  nonsense, what exactly is "spiritual"  show the evidence for  a "spirit", Numbers  mean nothing doesnt  matter if its  billions or  trillions "believing"

Maybe you are hearing me but you're not listening.
You can find " evidence" of Spirit if you look for it, not with microscopes and anal probes, but with the right tools: meditation, introspection. The evidence is there for all to find, but of course, you'll just say it's nonsense and be done with it.

Still waiting for your valuable contribution to the discussion. ????

6 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Total  mumbo  jumbo,  again no  such thing has any proof  whatsoever, except  of  course in "belief" and "Faith"

It's quite funny and ironic that you would say that. 
Scientists are required to keep an open and inquisitive mind, yet here you are, dismissing millennia of spiritual practice of millions and millions of people with just "mumbo jumbo". Convenient, isn't it?
What valuable insights have you brought to the discussion?

Why not start to meditate and find out by yourself?

 

6 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Yes one is better  and  this  is  mostly gobbledey  gook. Even  more vagueness.

Unlike religion science is sometimes  wrong, its there  to be tested, religion is  not even though science has on too  many occasions proven it  wrong.

 

Again, you mistake religion with spirituality. 
Science considered acupuncture as "gobbledey gook" for a long time, now it is taught to doctors all over the world and guess what...it works. But how? After all the whole acupuncture system is based on energy lines in our body that can't be seen or touched, yet have been mapped (without science) a long time before traditional science was even established. hmm
Of course religion has been proven wrong. You don't need to be a (rocket) scientist to understand that the world wasn't created in 7 days, do you?

I found it equally frustrating to talk to atheists (less so agnostics) and religious people, because they're both stuck in a rut. One claims that science has the ultimate truth and if something can not be explained through it, then it must be fairy tales. The other claims his holy book contains everything you need to know and if you don't believe it, then eternal damnation is waiting for you.
Both worldviews are at seemingly opposite places of the spectrum, yet both are equally restrictive and exclusive.

I don't want to start arguing about what caused more deaths, but I'd like to remind you that atheist governments like in China and Russia have had their fair share in bloodshed.

On 4/14/2019 at 11:22 PM, Odysseus123 said:

I am undecided about two viewpoints that have been with us through at least 3000 years and probably 10 millennia..

 

1.God in everything (pantheism)

2.Everything in God (panentheism)

 

These two memes are found across all cultures and religions...difficult to decide.

The way I see it, both are correct. One doesn't exclude the other.

I've been occupied with death, religions, spirituality, philosophy, psychology, metaphysics, psychedelic drugs, art, channelings and much else my entire life. I've been always driven by an insatiable thirst for knowledge and thanks God (pun intended) I've been open-minded enough to discover things that others dismiss out of prejudice before even attempting to understand. At the same time I love science, but I don't believe it has all the answers and I therefore treat it just like another "religion".

Having said that, I need to make an important distinction: religion and spirituality are 2 very different things.
Religion is an institutionalized system, that places itself as the intermediary between God (Spirit, the universal soul, or whatever you call the ultimate being) and you. These systems have important pieces of the Truth, but sadly these pieces have been covered by centuries of empty words and scriptures. They've become for the most part empty shells. Just look at the decline of Christianity.
I don't subscribe to any one religion and it makes my skin crawl when someone claims that his/her religion is the only true one. Nevertheless, I have studied them and found that there's value in them, but it depends on each person how he interprets that religion. 
Spirituality on the other hand, focuses more on the direct experience you can have with the Divine and this is what I've been after. Every religion started out from a spiritual experience and then got distorted by others who didn't have that experience and tried to rationalize what is not possible to put into words.

There's nothing you need to believe in, because everything you want to know is right there for you to discover. 

Unfortunately today, the atheists behave in very much the same way as the Christian inquisition (apart from the burning, torture and hanging), making it near impossible to have a mature discussion.

I know there's nothing I can say or write to make anyone change their minds. People evolve at their own pace and you can't force them to believe one way or another if they're not ready for them. The only thing one can do is to live his truth, set an example. If this example holds value in the eyes of another person, then you'll have planted an important seed. There's no need to speak of religion, nor spirituality or science.

In the end it's all extremely simple, but we like to fight over definitions and create a world where everything is black and white.

I'm glad you can see the difference.
As for the "bitter old men"...if trying to preserve the beauty of nature means I'm bitter (at 45 I may be considered old by some), then so be it.

Can you see the difference?

Some people like grasping at straws...