Sateev

Some years ago I read the memoirs of a British consul who spent most of his life in Siam, but I can't remember his name. He had been the beneficiary of an aborted British scheme to take youth into its foreign service and educate them on the job. I believe he said that he and another fellow were inducted at age 18, but neither the other fellow or the scheme lasted for long. It was a fascinating read, but he left out the chapter on his experiences during WWII, other than to indicate he was so embittered that he would have been happy for Britain to occupy Thailand, and exact heavy reparations. Anybody know his name?

That would be W.A.R. Wood, who also wrote a book on the history of Thailand. I have both books in my library. ' A Brief History of Thailand' leaned heavily on Prince Damrong's accounts. Excellent, but parochial reading.

Sateev

Oops, my library is not where I am...it should be 'A History of Siam'.

Sateev

Some years ago I read the memoirs of a British consul who spent most of his life in Siam, but I can't remember his name. He had been the beneficiary of an aborted British scheme to take youth into its foreign service and educate them on the job. I believe he said that he and another fellow were inducted at age 18, but neither the other fellow or the scheme lasted for long. It was a fascinating read, but he left out the chapter on his experiences during WWII, other than to indicate he was so embittered that he would have been happy for Britain to occupy Thailand, and exact heavy reparations. Anybody know his name?

That would be W.A.R. Wood, who also wrote a book on the history of Thailand. I have both books in my library. ' A Brief History of Thailand' leaned heavily on Prince Damrong's accounts. Excellent, but parochial reading.

Sateev

Regardless of what 'they' (Immigration clerks) are doing, it's just another example of arbitrary decision-making by a higher-up with an axe to grind. Unless the police issue a new regulation, specifying the level of achievement required to meet the visa requirement, it's all BS...

And for the 'som num na' crowd: it is becoming more and more typically petty here in TV. So many insecure a**holes with nothing else to do but revel in others' misfortune, judgemental to the bitter end. Yeah, you'll last a long time here...

There is a long-standing caution in Asia against breaking someone else's rice bowl. So typical of the late comers to bring a disregard of same from their own careworn countries...maybe better stay home, and gossip about the neighbors, and call the law if you see something actionable. Please.

Oh, and for those who miss no opportunity to bash Americans, well, 'nuff said.

Sateev

While I know nothing of the AUA branch in Chiang Mai, I can attest to the fact that the AUA school in Bangkok is initially a listening ONLY type of school.

It uses the "ALG" aka "Automatic Language Growth" method when learning thai. While I did research into the methodology, I was less than impressed. The innovators of the ALG system allege that after 600 hours of listening to two thai people interact on a stage using a variety of props, you will magically be able to converse in thai to thais. This is done with ZERO student interaction, no question/answers in class and not actually speaking ANY thai at all in the classroom. A dubious claim at best, but with that being said, I did meet several people who had attended 300+ hours and could speak some sort of semi-intelligible thai. Although upon further questioning; they were also learning thai with other resources.

To their credit the teachers or "actors" at AUA are innovative, interesting, theatrical and being thai nationals, speak clear thai. They tend to speak at normal speed and cadence so it's hard to hear the word breaks if you're not used to listening to thais speak. On the up side, if you buy blocks of hours, it's by far the most inexpensive thai language school to attend. The classes are offered many, many hours a day, and you can go at your convenience.

If I am not mistaken, AUA is one of the hardest schools to get an education visa from. Last time I was there they said you must attend class 30 hours a week to qualify for them to help you get your visa. Most private thai language schools stick to the Ministry of Education's minimum of 4 hours a week spread over a year to get a visa.

AUA does have a reading and writing course, but you must test into if you don't attend their whacky "learn to speak by listening only" class before hand. I spoke to the lady who oversees enrollment and it appears the test is such that even a marginal reader of thai, and/or a very basic speaker could probably get into the class if they pushed it, and were motivated to learn once they got in.

The good news is AUA sells all the old text books that they used (before they converted to the ALG method) to teach speaking, reading and writing thai at the bookstore. I couldn't get the cassettes that go with the speaking thai books (that shows you how old the material and method is) as they are all out of stock. Maybe bit-torrent has them I dunno.

...

As a former AUA student for whom the experience was wildly boring, there are a few mistaken impressions I should clear up.

While, as I said, I couldn't tolerate the endless hours of listening to stories, it is NOT true that there is no student interaction. While "Please don't speak Thai" is the stated theoretical optimum (per Marvin Brown, and, especially, David Long, the director of the school), in practice, students are encouraged to indicate their understanding (or not) of the subject being presented. Some of the more pragmatic (and less dogmatic) teachers even encourage answers in simple Thai. And I really believe that the method works for absolute beginners MUCH better than for folks with a smattering of conversational ability. Dictionaries are discouraged, in favor of 'sussing out' the meaning of the overall subject. As you learn, cross correlation begins to single out common words, and substitution becomes possible, so understanding of similarly constructed sentences dawns, albeit slowly.

My personal problem is that I already spoke too much Thai (although not necessarily well), and was placed in Level 3 when I first enrolled. I found it frustrating, because the match was spotty: On some topics, I was bored; on others I was in over my head. Also, I wanted to learn to read as soon as possible, which was going to be several hundred hours hence at AUA, even though I already knew the alphabet (no reading until Level 5).

As for what is the best school, of course, as tod-daniels points out, it depends on how you learn, and what your goals are. I learned to hear and reproduce tones fairly early, because I had a teacher who understood the problems farangs have with them. That occurred at a Wat Thai in the US, and was the true watershed in my Thai education, and I have continued at my normal (not-so-fast) pace ever since. The Union-type language schools were not the best fit for me, either. In the end, I probably took a lot longer with the eclectic approach to get to my current skill set. I get by.

I have friends who swear by AUA, and I have friends who teach there, as well. I try to be unbiased, and I realize that AUA is a radical departure from the usual Second Language methods. I would neither praise, nor condemn it on that basis alone...

Find what works for you.

Sateev

Thailand will never move on because even if they arrest Thaksin the powers that be in this country will manage to create another mess that damages the Thailand, it doesn't matter which side they are on Democrats, reds, yellows, blues, PAD, it just doesn't matter, the results are always the same. Thailand is a 2nd would country and always will be.

Thailand isn't, and never has been a 'second world' country. That it is a second rate country is arguable. 'Second World' means that it is developed AND aligned with the former Soviet bloc. Thailand is a Third World country, which may someday become a First World country, developed and aligned with the so-called 'free world'...

But not if Thaksin has his way...

When visiting Nong Khai several years ago, I heard multiple references to a "condo" near the river. At least one farang I met was renting there. Maybe it's not really a condo, maybe all units sold and only available for rental .. not sure.

Best to make a trip and have a chat with some of the long-term expats there.

Perhaps farangs in the northeast mistaken apartments for condos. An apartment building belongs to a single owner with the purpose of renting out the units.

There is most definitely a condo building on the river in Nong Khai, at the west end of town, not far from the old wet market (the one that moved from the street to the enclosed area in the soi, near FGCC/the old Provincial Hall).

When I lived there (2006), there was some kind of problem with the management, and people were withholding the association fees. A rather well-connected Democrat, with whom I had a business relationship, owned a really nice river-view unit in the building, that had been thoroughly trashed by a tenant. I wanted to buy it, but he wasn't selling...

The situation may have changed by now, so the advice to make the trip there is the only good advice to follow...

Sateev

Edit - I might add that these counter measures always seem to be driven by changes initiated by the US. You'd think they had better things to do than annoy their allies in new and imaginative ways !

It would be unexpectedly nice if the UK/Euro contingent here could pass up the opportunity to bash the US, at least occasionally.

Fortunately, the EDIT function affords even the forgetful the chance to get in their licks...

I'm having trouble following this thread. Is there only one AUA school, as mentioned above?

AUA is a good example of a school with pseudo-scientific claims – this school states in its sales leaflet that they have never seen a student master Thai who has not learned via the natural method.

Is this the same AUA company which has a branch in Seri Center, or is it a separate Thai language school? I was trying to work out whether AUA was a university, but someone in the 'Teaching In Thailand' forum said it was a langauge center - AUA's website says they teach English - do they also teach Thai?

Appreciate any info.

Also, there was a member called 'Soloman' who seemed interested in learning Thai. I have advice for him and anyone else which is that location is a key factor in deciding where to study. When I was looking around, UTL was one of the closest to where I live. If someone told me that Bangkok's best school was 30km away from my house - what difference would it make? I'd spend more on transport than on learning Thai - you just need the access to a real teacher (there is a difference!)

AUA is 'American University Alumni', and primarily teaches English to Thai students. They also have a rather small (compared to their English program) Thai Language department, where they use ALG - Automatic Language Growth, a method sometimes described as 'natural learning'. The main campus is located on Ratchdamri Rd., not far from the BTS station. They have had a branch in Chiang Mai, but I am not sure they use ALG there. They may have recently opened other branches in/near BKK, check the website for more info.

Having studied there, and at UTL, I can offer only my own impression: AUA does encourage natural sounding speech, mainly because they, in contrast to UTL (and Union, UTL's predecessor), do NOT use Romanization, or, indeed, ANY written lesson work, for the first 1000-2000 hrs. of instruction. They rely on the teachers acting and drawing on a whiteboard, to impart meaning and understanding of the material presented, and conduct class in Thai ONLY.

In my opinion, though, the missing pieces are speaking and feedback, which I believe, are required to facilitate improvement. The ALG method is quite clear: "DO NOT SPEAK THAI". I find this rule is broken frequently, with the encouragement of the teachers there, presumably because it is next to impossible to participate in class without speaking at least SOME Thai...

My experience at UTL was, however, not very good, either. The early reliance on transliteration and their script was especially problematic for me, since I joined the school, and was placed in Module 3, beginning reading and writing. I knew the alphabet and vowels BEFORE I started, and had to go back and learn their Romanization script in order to follow the lessons.

So my complaint with UTL may just be a problem with my own set of circumstances. However, once I overcame the initial problems, I still found the approach to be difficult: repetition, and many hours of written homework. I could do most of it on my own, and at my own pace to better effect than trying to keep up with the rather fast pace of the class.

Part of the problem may have been my age: I was 55 when I studied at UTL. Most of my classmates were in their 20s, or early 30s, and seemed to pick it up faster. The method, which as I said earlier, is exactly the same as Union Language School, established by Christ Church Thailand to train (presumably young) missionaries, and was considered one of the best schools. I have friends who finished the course, and were successful at passing the Prathom 6 test.

There are many examples of AUA's classes on YouTube; search for 'ALG'. David Long, who is the school's director, explains (and touts) ALG in great detail.

In the end, I agree with those who say that there is NO single best method for all learners. Your own learning style and intellectual capacities will determine how best to proceed. Given enough time, however, I DO believe that immersion can be profitable for almost anyone who wants to learn Thai.

It is hard to be all you can be in ABBI when you have 3 Bosses and each one of them wants to be the Main Huncho to all. So give the want to be a chance.

This, too, reminds me of something, and I basically agree with what you say:

I keep hearing that "Obama hasn't delivered on his promises". I hear it from Americans. I hear it a lot from Brits. I even hear if from Filipinos, who want certain veteran's affairs matters resolved to their benefit.

The guy is just one member, albeit the top member, of the Executive Branch of the US Government. He, unlike, certain island leaders, is not a dictator. He is constrained by the system he has chosen to serve, and can not MAKE ANYTHING HAPPEN ALONE. Nor, I believe, did he promise to make anything happen. He promised, I recall, to work hard and tirelessly to bring about changes which sufficiently numerous people thought worthy, such that those people voted him into office.

Much the same for Abhisit. Assume his good intentions. Then visualize the array of powerful vested interests opposing him, or, for that matter, ANY change.

It's a thankless job, thanks to those who expect one man to fix what they have passively let happen to their country.

Apply this to Abhisit, or Obama, Sarkozy, or whomever. Maybe somewhere, some benevolent dictator can claim success at this game in a few short months, but even those guys piss SOMEONE off and end up shark bait.

Abhisit stepped up. So did Obama. What have we as individuals done? Shuffled off to Cowboy, and had another beer.

Jeez.

Sateev

"Mark" is much like Bill Clinton. Clinton was very good at introducing popular changes but the statements were purely made for the "feel good" effect. Clinton almost never followed up on his numerous "changes". Clinton's changes disappeared and a new one appeared the following week. It appears this PM is walking the same path. Soon it will be obvious that he is completely ineffective.

No idea where you get this "comparison". Clinton's efforts, especially at healthcare reform, were stifled by obstructionist Republicans, who dragged the country into the doldrums in the name of a holy crusade to rid the Whitehouse of a philanderer. Never mind that leaders of almost every other 'first world' country are renowned (and usually applauded) for their sexual escapades. It seems that the UK and the US are the only ones who are still hypocritical enough to flush their best and brightest down the drain in the name of Puritanism. I'm an American, by the way, so flame on.

Am I the only one that sees that after these things happen time and time again that Thailand just isn't ready to run with the big dogs yet? They are still a second world developing country trying to take matters that are too big into their hands. It screaming out of everything from education to medicine, tourism and politics. None of this surprises me.

A pet peeve of mine is the misuse of the terms First, Second and Third World. It is NOT an ordinal ranking of the relative state of development of the countries of the world. It dates back to the polarization that was present during the Cold War.

Third world countries are those who were supposedly non-aligned, with either the US, or with the Soviet Bloc. First world countries are those who were aligned withe the US and her allies, the major developed countries of the world. Second world countries are (were) those aligned with the old Soviet empire.

The fact that many developing countries are/were Third World countries is a natural consequence of their being non-aligned: they suck hind tit, after the the friends of the major powers got theirs. Therefore, Cuba, for instance, is NOT a Third World country, although it is quite poor by US standards.

Thailand is NOT, and will probably NEVER BE a 'Second World' country, although with current overtures to China, it may achieve similar status. It is, and has been, a developing, Third World country, in the sense that it is a poor country.

From Wikipedia:

"Although the term continues to be used colloquially to describe the poorest countries in the world, this usage is widely disparaged since the term no longer holds any verifiable meaning after the fall of the Soviet Union deprecated the terms First World and Second World. While there is no identical contemporary replacement, common alternatives include developing world and Global South."

Thailand may be 'second rate", but NEVER 'Second World'.

I love the place.

Sateev

I'm coming to Bangkok soon and staying for a good few months maybe a couple of years.

Is there anything I should bring with me I can't get over there?

I guess most things can be purchased in Bangkok - they have Tesco don't they?

I'm bringing lots of t-shirts and shorts and some trainers and shoes so that should be ok.

I hear protein powder is hard to come buy but not sure if I want to bring that through customs!

Thanks.

It never ceases to amaze me how people try to reproduce their home country when they move to Thailand. The most liberating realization is that, other than personal items (pictures of Granny, the dog, etc.), YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING! You may prefer certain clothes, brands of toiletries, etc. My advice is to learn to use locally available solutions to ALL those problems. Learn to live like Thai people, and to the extent you do, you will be rewarded richly. You will gain self-confidence, have the satisfaction of self-sufficiency, and transcend your cultural limitations.

Or, bring Jaffa Cakes, Tetley's, and hang out at the local expat bar, paying 10x the price for a meal and a drink. At least you'll FEEL at home...

Sateev

I learned to read and write at the same time as I began to learn to speak. Not only did it not stifle my communication skills, it, (the ability to read), improved them greatly. One only learns incorrect pronunciation by using an inaccurate source. If the people in question, (the ones you mention who can read but cannot order a plate of rice), learned the sounds of the consonants and vowels, only via a Latin transliteration, then yes, it's quite possible to pick up poor pronunciation. However, if, like I did, you learn the sounds of the consonants and vowels by imitating the sound of a native Thai speaker, you cannot go wrong. Most people in my acquaintance, who can read and write, learned to do so by copying the sound of a native speaker. As a result, their spoken Thai is clear and understandable by any native Thai speaker. To suggest that learning to read first leads to incorrect pronunciation is, at best misleading. My own view is that learning to read and write should occur not first, but in tandem with the study of speech. I base this opinion on my own experience and the experience of others in my acquaintance.

I agree that learning the consonants in class/group order is probably more beneficial in the first instance.

Maybe I didn't state it as clearly as I might: I have found that learning to read FIRST is counterproductive. Doing so concurrently, if you can, is certainly possible, and productive for SOME.

In the end, each person will have strengths and weaknesses that determine the best way for THEM to learn.

I do, however, take issue with the poster who made the comparison with teaching English as a Second Language (ESL). Teaching non-tonal language speakers to speak a tonal language has no correlation to teaching English (a non-tonal language) to anybody. Learning to 'hear', i.e., distinguish the different tones, and finally, to be able to reproduce them, is essential - not, as some students seem to think, an afterthought. To the extent that reading causes you to mentally 'intone' the word wrong, it is counterproductive, period. If you have the basic ability to hear, and reproduce the tonal quality of a word, reading becomes effective.

I should note, too, that there are different kinds of reading, and the study of reading. As an example, one well-known school in Times Square teaches by presenting words arranged in a sentence, and having the class repeat them, with the correct tone. This 'sight-pattern' reading is relatively effective in vocabulary building, and with the attendant feedback, is effective for some in conversing.

As another example, another well-known school in the same building, teaches listening and repeating for two month-long modules, using the dreaded phonetics. Later, the students are weaned off phonetics, as they study vowels and tone rules. The result is an ability to read, and pronounce, ANY Thai word. Subsequent modules build speed and vocabulary.

Contrast these with the ALG method, taught at another well-known school on Ratchadamri. There, they want you to LISTEN only for 1000 - 2000 hours! Speaking is introduced only after the student had heard a LOT of Thai, and seen a lot of gestures and stick-figures drawn on the board.

ALG is discussed on many venues, and it's originator, Marvin Brown, did a LOT of research to validate it. Still, I don't believe it's the best way for everyone. People learn differently; some of the best Thai speakers certainly had other methods than those mentioned here.

I would say that it's best to be diligent: all roads lead to Rome. At least eventually...

Sateev

It seems to me that there is a piece of the original poster's question missing: what is the goal? Is it to be able to converse fluently? To read street signs, or to read scholarly works?

Given enough time, and a lack of a goal, any order will do...

If conversational fluency is the goal, however, attempting to learn to read first will utterly stifle your communication skills. This is because your mind will learn incorrect pronunciation, and associate it firmly with the words you are memorizing. When you finally do begin to speak, it will be doubly difficult to go back and unlearn these errors.

I know several people who know how to read fairly well, but can't order a plate of rice. Their speech is unintelligible to Thais.

I, along with an apparent minority of posters, believe that the key is listening. Learn to hear the tones, which most Westerners can not distinguish until they have expended many hours of effort. When the light finally comes on, and you hear the different sounds, you will realize that that close is NOT good enough -- the tone makes all the difference.

In order to begin to speak, feedback is essential. At this stage, boring and repetitive reciting of the vowel sounds in each of the five tones is really your friend. A teacher is essential at this point, to correct the inevitable mistakes, until you learn all five tones and how to speak, and especially, hear them.

No harm memorizing the alphabet in this beginning phase, but my experience is that actual reading of words is counter-productive at this stage. Also, how you memorize the alphabet is important. Often it is taught in 'alphabetical order'. While this may help you find words in a dictionary, it is of no other use. Better to learn the alphabet in consonant class order, so that, later, when you know the tones, you can apply the tone rules, which depend on the consonant class (among other things).

Listening is the key to speaking, and learning to read should follow your ability to hear (listen) well.

Sateev

Heloo i searched around this forum but i could not find what im lookin for.

Im looking for Motorcycle tuning parts for Yamaha mio 2008. such as cylinder,exhaust system,carbuerator. and a very soft seat as well. i took my bike and drove around charan sanitwong . and looked in every shop but they did not have what i was looking for.

Does anyone know a good motorcycle shop for the parts that im looking for in bangkok area?.

answers would be much appreciated.

/Erik

Right under the BTS at Saphan Kwai are several motorcycle parts shops. They are on the right hand side if you walk toward Morchit/Chatuchak. I have bought MANY parts for several types of motorcycles there. Also, Chokchai 4 near Ladprao Rd. has several shops, if you look closely.

While much of the aftermarket is aimed at Honda Wave customizatiion, the Mio has been out long enough that you will probably have no problem finding what you need.

Hope this helps.

I know one...the best best best indian in bkk

but am keeping it a secret

Very mature...

Meanwhile, one of the Himali Cha-Cha outlets (most recent being Sukhumvit, between soi 3/1 and soi 5).

I like it because it is one of the least oily North Indian restaurants I have found, using little or no ghee.

For South Indian, Dosa King, formerly on Sukhumvit soi 19, but relocated to the old Hair Design digs on Soi 11/1, or Malaysian Aunty, who was a victim of the Great Soi 10 Bulldozing and Liquor Grab. She now has a tiny place off Surawong, almost to the river. I can't think of the name of the road, but it runs parallel to Surawong, and just north of it. She has dosa, and many South Indian dishes, EXTREMELY reasonable pricing.

Yeah, keep the good one secret, so it will dry up and disappear. Good MiG16...good.

Sateev

Vandalization???? Bloody yanks, learn some English

Slimey non-Yanks, get a hobby which doesn't involve flaming outbursts when others ask legitimate questions.

By the way, anyone recommend a nice little hotel with attached bathroom and a TV in Singapore for under 1500 Baht

This may (barely) meet your needs:

Haising Hotel

37 Jalan Besar Singapore 208801

Tel: (65) 62981223 Fax: (65) 62986609

They have a BIG internet presense, and TINY rooms, albeit clean, and with attached bathroom. They have no lift, and try to charge you an extra S$5.00 for a 'window', which amounted to a small portal near the ceiling, through which the always-on hall lamp illuminated the room while I tried to sleep.

On the plus side, (I mentioned cleanliness), it is very near Little India, the MRT, Bugis Street, etc., and was only about S$50.00. Plenty of good food and transport around. Very helpful staff.

Like the subject of this thread, Tiger Airways, it seems they try to outsmart you with their website, but deliver on a much smaller scale than you are led to believe. VERY SMALL ROOMS.

Still, there isn't much in that price range in Singapura. Good enough to do a bit of sightseeing, and get your Thai visa sorted.

Sateev

Not being inclined to scour the middle 13 pages of this inane topic, I will accept the pouncing/trouncing if my sentiments have been duplicated there:

First, since the topic is stated as the "Percentage of farangs in Thailand who are here for sex", I assume it includes the largely transient vacationers, among whom I would guess there are a large number of pure sex tourists. So, I would guess it's a rather large percentage at any given time.

That said, there seems to be a larger question about motive for staying here.

I submit that the lifestyle, which includes but is not limited to easy access to sex, is the major reason for most who stay here more than a few weeks. It just won't help to try to excise the sex factor from the large equation of which it is merely one term.

For me, it's the relaxed lifestyle, the warm, if superficial, reception from the citizenry, the natural beauty and the ease of travel to see it, and the food, oh yes, the food...and the warmth of knowing that, should I find myself in need, sex is available any time/place in the country. All of those things contribute to the attraction of living here for me.

To single out the sex drive as a major motivator seems silly to me: the obstacles of language, culture, and infrastructure are far too great to overcome for any but the most Thai-obsessed sex tourists to move on to resident status. So, guys who live here just for the sex are probably limited in numbers.

And, truth-to-tell, even filet mignon gets boring every night: dyed-in-the-wool sex tourists NEED variety, which is why Cuba, Cambodia, Dominican Republic, Brazil, Philippines, Mexico, and too may others to name, enjoy many tourist dollars.

What interests me most is the posters who say that the number is 99%, and the rest are liars. I am at a loss as to what would give such people such a jaundiced view of Thailand and her expat population. Is it projection, and a need to belong? Or is is derision and pious righteousness?

It seems to me that Thailand is what it is. If you fit, stay. If you don't, leave.

Simple.

Sateev.

Whatever the spelling it still means bird shit, and the implied meaning of bird shit farang, amongst others is cheap charlie, the great unwashed, low class tourists etc. When used jokingly between friends/work associates it is only mildly offensive. When delivered with venom, it can be considered a genuine insult.

Farang kee nok can also supposedly also mean feijoa according to a kiwi mate - feijoa is another type of guava (maybe not even available here?), as used in the flavoured vodka, the name of which escapes me. Tell me that's not useful info.

Edit: brand is '42 Below'

I'm using thai script here..because that IS the spelling :

ฝรั่ง(farang) can mean guava or person of caucasian appearance

ขี้นก(kee nok) literally means "bird excrement"....colloquially can mean several bad things ie: worthless, inferior,insignificant,meaningless, low class

so ฝรั่งขี้นก (farang kee nok) basically means "you worthless caucasian "

ขี้เหนียว(kee neeow) literally means "sticky shit"..but is used to mean stingy. It is akin to the term "cheap charlie"..this is more slang than anything.

งก (ngok) , the adjective, also means stingy ....so ฝรั่งงก (farang ngok) could mean stingy caucasian person.

นก (nok), means bird

To the non-thai reader/writer , obviously ngok and nok seem similar, but pronounced VERY differently (many people find the ง ng consonant the hardest to grasp..but that is another subject)

Well, my turn to deflate a myth/misnomer:

ขี้เหนียว(kee neeow) may well read as 'shit sticky', but the descriptor ขี้(kee) actually means 'tends to or has a propensity to be", for example, ขี้โกหก (kee gohok), liar, one who tends to lie; ขี้ลืม (kee leuum), one who forgets, forgetful person.

Of course, one could argue that the above examples mean 'lying shit' and 'forgetful shit', but they do not. Ascribing the state of being a shit to someone whose behavior is disapproved is NOT a Thai speech pattern. It is uniquely farang.

ฝรั่งขี้นก (farang kee nok) IS a Thai construct, and it can be seen to be a completely different construct, hence the interpretation for ขี้(kee) is correct as 'shit' in this case.

There are many other projections of farang culture onto Thai language that cause confusion to real Thai communications. They are almost always the result of a false "Ah ha!", by naive students of Thai language...

Avoid literal translation; here there be monsters...

Reading is good, speaking is good. Listening is best.

Sateev

The bar girls aren't calling you "Darling" (English)..... they are called you "NaLing" (Thai -> Monkey Face)

You wont find that on Wikipedia !!!

Nah. They are calling you "dak ling", which means monkey's ass, in Isaan...

(most bar girls are from Isaan, doncha know)

Sateev

Uh No one mentions and I'm assuming from the attacks whenever feminist ideals pop up side that most of the members of Thai Visa are boys, (and highly chauvanistic boys, ) but as of yet on this thread no one acknowledges that just perhaps the reason they stay on - despite the pitfalls is because of ...

Thai women.

C'mon boys, admit it .

Totally trained to serve, cook ,clean bear children , AND can hold property and business registrations

The totally aquiescent, smiling Thai Woman.

I wish I had one.

First, specifically, if you think Thai women are totally acquiescent, wishing you had one is as close as you're going to get. I could go on, but I prefer to address the general case:

Expectations.

The OP's assumptions about the downside to Thailand, stem, I offer, from failure to meet the generally false assumptions which cause people to pull up stakes and head for Thailand. A simple summary would be the assumption that everything works in a similar fashion to the way things work in [name your country], only cheaper, and with a pleasant smile. I couldn't keep track of how many bitterly angry people complain about the lack of real customer service, efficency, diligence, etc. And if you get past your week on Sukhumvit, to actually meet a regular Thai woman, perhaps fall in love, and set up housekeeping, you will find out how acquiescent and subservient they are. Not.

The key is recognizing what you want from Thailand, and then asking yourself how YOU can adapt to life here, NOT the other way around. All due respect to those highly paid expats, who can insulate themselves from actual life in Thailand, or take it in managable doses; money merely prolongs the fantasy. The more Thai you live, the more you will have to adapt. Some of us, who have a choice, find that interesting; others find it frustrating.

The notion that men stay here because of the women, presumes that they can live the fantasy semi-indefinitely: bars, MPs, discos are inherently self-limiting pursuits. Either you run out of cash, or you run out of stimulation. Either way, it's hardly enough to keep you here.

Sateev

I would like some recommendations for self teaching methods/programs. I have considered getting Rosetta Stone but I'm not sure if this is the best for me or not. I am very much at the beginner level. I know a few basic phrases and have a vocabulary that is all over the map (airplane, hospital, traffic, walk, drink, eat, shower, brush teeth, bird, boy/girl, etc)

Self teaching is not my preferred method but it's what I am stuck with for the moment. I plan to supplement it with some short courses during my future visits to Thailand (which I will start a separate thread for).

I know everyone learns differently but if you have any input on Rosetta Stone or others, I'd like to hear it.

Thanks,

-k

In the early stage, before you can recognize/reproduce the tones, self-teaching is 100% useless. You will create problems it will take years to overcome. Feedback from a qualified teacher is required to get you over that initial phase.

Listening is key, and after you begin to hear the tones, which can be a LONG time for some, and relatively fast for others, Rosetta Stone is a good, if somewhat boring and tedious method. I have NEVER been able to get the microphone feedback system to work well, and my girlfriend, who is Thai, can not get it to 'approve' her speech, either.

It is really best for learning correct syntax, and building vocabulary. It is mainly an organized system for listening, and reading. If you can imitate the sounds, without anyone correcting you, you are indeed gifted, and the rest should be easy. We mortals need qualified, attentive Thai TEACHERS to get us over the hump.

Without immersion, Thai is a VERY difficult language to learn. Hearing it spoken day-after-day is one of the best methods of increasing your fluency, IF it is spoken correctly. Hanging around Bangkok, so much dialect and slang is in use, that you will have a hard time moving forward, unless you 'hang around' an educational institution or other more formal setting. Street Thai takes a long time to sink in...

Sateev

Amazing Thailand.

Not for the Thais, but for the "That's what you get for hanging out in place where there are hookers (and Alcohol!)" farangs in never-never land.

Here's a clue: just because you live in some high-rise in Phuket, and never set foot in the street, doesn't mean you are immune. You can create that 'special Thailand' in your delusional minds, but the fact is that it IS Thailand, and bringing all your little moralistic notions with you will NEVER change that.

You want San Fernando Valley? Move there. Otherwise, learn to accept that you live in a country where you are not particularly wanted, except to the extent that you serve a purpose. That purpose is $$. Complaining about the place will NOT endear you to, nor save you from, the local thuggery.

Over the years, it has become apparent to me that farangs cause the greater share of problems. It's evident in the rise and decline of the various tourist areas. 20 years ago, Nana was rowdy, raunchy, and fun, but no where near as dangerous as it is now. Koh Samui, as recently as five years ago, was still pleasant, and the locals were friendly and natural. Now, surly is the nicest adjective I can think of with respect to the island. And farang shenannigans are at the heart of it. Bad behavior, compounded.

I really have to laugh at those who think Thailand is shopping at the Central Food Court, riding in a taxi back to their gated high rise. No sour grapes here: if you like that life, great. But don't start trashing others, who actually get out in the street and mix in. If Khao San Road is your thing, fine: eat banana pancakes, hang out and get high. You never need to speak Thai, or buy food in a street market. But lay off the people who appreciate the other, real, Thailand.

Sateev

Take the bike apart. Ship frame and engine seperate. No problems.

Hi

How much would it cost to import a frame and an engine (seperately)? I am talking about a 30-year old 50cc motorbike (not a "moped"!! I mean one that's speedwise legally unrestricted, type "Zundapp KS 50", see attached image). I want to get one such, to build it up and ride it here.

If i import it in parts, can i get it legally registered here?

Best regards.....

Thanh

I had a bike that was imported from Japan. It was imported as engine and frame separated, by a company in Pathumwan who apparently specailzed in the process.

I bought the bike from another farang, who was on his way out of the country to another assignment. He had paid 89,000 baht for a 200cc Yamaha, with NO registration or book!

I wondered why he happily accepted 40,000 for the bike, thinking there MUST be a way to get it registered. After all, this is Thailand...

Bottom line, I rode the bike for a few months, always looking over my shoulder because it had a bogus license plate, and I had no book.

The process for getting a 'rot pagop' registered consists of taking it to the Thai Institute of Standards in Samut Prakan, and paying 27,000 baht to have it thoroughly tested for emissions. You pay this money, pass or fail, and the test apparently takes 7-10 days. The engineer who certifies it is the ONLY one in Thailand who can do it. The local emissions test guys you see all around Bangkok can not perform the tests, nor issue the paperwork to get the bike registered.

When I called him, there was some talk of paying 30,000, instead of 27,000, which entitled you to a free re-test. This sounds fishy, and probably means that they actually tell you what is wrong with the bike, see that it is 'fixed', and give you the pass. I doubt this is 'official', and I'm sure you don't repeat the whole multi-day test sequence. Just a way for some one to make a quick 3000, and insure your passing the tests.

I have heard recently that the price for a shop to do the process has gone up; perhaps the re-test fee is steeper now...

At the end, I sold the bike to another farang, who didn't seem concerned about any of this (which I told him in detail, before selling him the bike).

There are/were alternatives to the strict by-the-book process, but I think they are getting tougher to do, and often result in a 'dodgy book'.

Riding with an invoice only is common, by Thais and farang alike. The difference is the incidental tea money paid to the local police box attendant. As a farang, you will pay more, although, if you have the tax documents that should come with the invoice, they will not confiscate it. Presumably, since your bike will stand out, you will be a target every time you see that cop or his friends.

50 or 100 baht a pop is OK, even for Thais, but 1000 can add up quickly.

Advice: buy a Wave 125 with book.

Sateev

Foot-operated mechanical lift for motorcycles without centerstand!

Lifts your bike from 12" to 16" with the press of a foot. Rubber platform prevents paint scratches on the frame.

Located 500M from Ladprao subway station in Bangkok.

Paid 1400, used once, sold the bike.

Accept 1000 baht.

See more here: For Sale under Misc.

Sateev