Mark L.

Nice post. Have to agree. The book talks about alot of that too... When you become a non-smoker it doesn't matter when your last one was.

You can also get into some psyc stuff with 'the shaming cycle' and failing... We often do things to shame ourselves... I could see quitting (and starting again) fitting into that.

Like I said... all espects of health will play a factor I think.

The highest % of people who quit (If memeory serves) are those that just decide to. Its very largely mental.

John-does hypnotism work with some? An area that scares and interests me.

deffinatly many factors and I htin mental/emotional etc to be the highest. I do believe that the foundation needs to be there regardless of anything else.

Nutrition advice is like giving religious advice (thats how strong people hold onto beliefs) but my opinion and experience is it ###### HARD to be vegan and be healthy. Veg is hard enough.

Most vegans are very low on proteins and good fats never mind some of the B vits etc..

This is argued and studies go both ways. I'm not trying to get into it now.

Its interesting that when health fails its never considered if what the health beliefs were were even correct...

www.price-pottenger.org

www.westonaprice.org

a couple sites for anyone interested in some good health info (IMO)

anyone seriously interested in a kick ass book

"Nutrition and Physical Degeneration"

-Weston A Price

interesting how cancer was almost non-existant less than 100 years ago amoung those who ate their native diets (all of which had meat to a lesser or larger degree)

Mix diet with chemical this and toxic that... plus mental/emotional directly effects the immune system (which every one of us uses to fight cancer EVERYONE) so how come it hits some and not others??

I would bet most people with cancer had prior to it fungus issues, yeast issues, even dandruf is an indicator things aren't right.

What did she do for work?

cronic infections is lower on the list too (lower mean lower vitality)

On a scale of about 0-10. 10 being perfect health and 0 being dead... under 7 you are suseptable to natures garbage collectors and its a sign if you don't change something something more serious will follow.

Most disease processes take 15-20 years to develop.. Ceratinly don't think western med will fix that. They may nuke a symptom.. But something else almost always pops up.

But most will tink this is crazy talk... thats cool too.

Believe in which ever path you choose

plasebo operations were 65% successful!!!! (and meds) But ops!!! thats crazy..

Some of these studies come from one of the only places they ever could (not saying it should have happened but if we can learn form it..) Nazies on Jews..

Point is the mind is strong!!!! Many things that show that. So believe what ever you do, smile, lov and laugh... Love first

I think its interesting how every clumps many different methods together as 'alternate'. It may be a correct statement but it is varied and wide in approaches and methods. Of course its not what is in controle and has almost money backing (any running) it.

Its interesting where cancer research money goes if you look closely. HUGE money going on. Treatments bring in more money cures would not.

The whole health care systems would fall apart if people go theathy and the health care systems (in most places) make money when people are sick...

Use to be (is it still?) in China that docs got paid per person when they were NOT sick. When they got sick they LOST the MONEY.

Sounds like a system I'd be more ready to pay into.

I'm not trying to convince you but going with the norm (look around at the norm..pretty sub par health wise don't you think? If you think that IS normal.....

All I'm saying is its not one way or another...there are loads of options. Some are more in controle and funded by the people who make money of the treatments.

There is a whole different concisouness...

Have a look into the famous Louis Pastuer... but also the unknown BeChamp. There is quite a bit of evidence that Pasteur stole from BeChamp and only showed in part what BeChamp found and not in all detail.

Pastuer was a great self promoter. He came up with the 'germ theory'. But many, and certainly BeChamp believed that the 'terrain' was more important.

BeChamp found what he called microzymas (if memory serves). Basically he found that these were a normal part of the body and when the 'terrain' (body) got weak and sick they changed into other things...like germs and even viruses... The cool thing was he also found that when you returned the body to homeostasis that they changed back to a normal part of the body.

When you look at nature (how big an ego do we have to think we can outsmart God or Mother Nature or what ever the creative force is).. When you look at nature, say plants, you see that when they are grown weak and sickly they emit low frequency vibrations that call to pests to come and get rid of them...to return to the earth and try to build something decent and life worthy..

Healthy plants (organic etc) don't get pests because they are healthy and don't attract them with the low vibration.. Even stdies when the plants have been covered in the pests..

Funny thing is humans are the same...as our health wains so does our vibration lower.. it attracts fungus, yeasts, parasites...and germs and viruses to come and clean up...they are natures clean up crew..

Some of you will think this is wacked Thats ok. Some will be wow, lets check this out (prob not many) and some will know about it. But it is all science.

Western med studies are largely funded by the poeple who make money on the products that they sell to 'treat' you.

They attack these 'invaders', cut them out, poison them, use radiation etc etc... but if BeChamp was right then we are attacking the bodys natural function.

Also what often happens is the cause (poor health) is not addressed and though one may be successful at that time, disease, disfunction, decay etc will how up somewhere else..

The etiology (cause) is never addressed.

In fact when experts in the fields of studying viruses and cancer come out and say there are no links after years and years of research...they are kicked out, excommunicated, black listed.. Can't risk the status quo.

So if you believe what we're fed. Then all the best, seriously

If a part of you questions everything you are taught from the authorities then there are some things to maybe look into. And all the best again.

And if you go another route you got it.

But no matter what the case, even western science knows the power of the mind to some degree. Love and laugh and smile.. it goes a long long way.

Peace

(just for fun there are reports of Pasteurs rabies vaccine doing more damage than the bite and many vets, there is a group in US say there is no such thing as rabies lol but it all depends on what you believe-I'm talking bitten and no shot-fine. Not bitten and shot-problems)

I think it was in Belgium that when the docs went on strike, mortality rates dropped... US doc caused death is about 250,000 a year-refferance JAMA-low figures)

lol You're gonna piss off more people than me

Adictions are funny things regardless of the 'truth' of the matter.

My personal belief is the healthier one is the less one craves anything. This is all aspects of health.

I also suspect that when the body is lacking in any area it will want... When we have a vise that is what we think we want.

I also believe that the body talks to us but if we are unhealthy we don't get the right signals and or can't interpret them.

Example with thirst. Some researchers believe that we can't tell the difference between hunger and thirst (everyone sitting here thinking of extreams.. But when we are that thirsty we are already dehydrated) Its amazing how many people cutr back on over eating when getting adequatly hydrated.

I suspect hydration will play a factor in many peoples cravings for booze. Omega 3s certainly do..

just some rambling..

I won't comment on religion lol othyer than its funny how we all think we're right

Imagine if you were born into something else...we'd think that was the way too

Totally agree.

Also I'm not so sure I want it in the Olympics... Look at am boxing in Olympics. Its horrible.

Maybe it will build the sports name..

I htink a big reason the powers that be want in is the prestige it will give Thailand and of course the Thais will do well in it (even with the scoring). A Thai winning in the Olympics is HUGE and is set for life which reflects thier views and what it means to them IMO.

But then again maybe its good. Maybe it would help the sport grow and become more excepted.

I don't know...its just hard to like all the padding and the scoring..

Thanks everyone!!!

Sea Salt-I would be interested in sea salt from France or New Zealand..

Lots of great info thanks again..

Very little mention specifically on meat.. I process foods very quickly so I eat a higher protein and fat diet than some.

Any specific mentions on meat/chicken etc

Anyone know how bad the waters are in general (for fish). I don't expect they are great..

(side note for another thread. IMO soy is BAD. The studies done that say it is good are done by the people who sell it. Independant studies say its crap-just my opinion. Dr Getoffs food pyramid has smokes and booze before soy lol)

quinoa is much safer lol

cobrasnakenecktie(long enough name lol) umm thats a good idea...getting the seller involved. Go check it out etc.. awesome!

Thanks again to all

Which ever path she chooses will be the right one for her journey so don't stress about it all too much Keep positive and best wishes

Sorry I know nothing of the book or sites other than remmebering the title and some of what was in its early pages..

I'm sure a search on line will give you something. They have groups etc as well. (If memory serves success rates for AA-the real numbers was something like less than 10% or somethig crazy-do you gamble? Would you take those odds?)

One model says you can

One says you can't (so if you fail at the one that says you can whats the prob?)

By the way I have no idea how long ago it was-it says we should congratualte ourselves for something we shouldn't do in the first place and if you truely decide to never do it again what are you counting days for? My guess is about 2 years with practically NO cravings at all. I DID have cravings when I tried to quit the many other times.

Basically your 'reptialian brain' can't think. It just wants. When ever it starts wanting you can use your neomammilian brain ('human brain') to say no. The cravings are basically its way of getting what it wants.

When you start thinking 'i need a smoke' that is your 'human' brain expanding on your 'reptialians; brains want. When you can recognize this and change the wording its amazing what happens.

If you are serious and actually really do want to quit FOREVER. I can give you the run down. I think the book would be better but and if I won't explain it all as well but if you want I don't mind-whats the worst that can happen? You ened up where you are now?

I wouldn't take ANYONES advice blindly and without thought.

I suggest using your logic, intuition and doing a little study.

I also don't listen to much the so called medical experts say either. Read JAMAs (one of the most highly respected med journal) article on how US docs are the third leading cause of death.

Also keep in mind that out of 15,000 food and drug researchers looked at only 75 were considered independant (The Ecologist)

Its all to do with what paradigm you subscribe to..

Although if med science says its an addiction and AA says you WILL drink again. What is the harm or risk in trying something that says differently and actually says you could be done with it?

Don't blindly follow ANYONES advise when it comes to YOUR health.

I look to someone who walks the talk and IS healthy and also someone who gets results and I look for logic and study it.

On this book itself-all I can give you are my experiences and opinions.

One modle says we are weak and cannot do anything for ourselves. We are at the mercy of drugs and knives.

The other modle says we can take our health into our own hands and that we all have the reponsibility to do so and its no one else.

Follow what ever modle is right for you.

By the way if you don't like reading...

I was became a non-smoker (quitters see how long they can quit becoming a non-smoker is a perminant dec). After about 15mins of hearing about how it worked.

The woman who told me read about 2 chapters (she was a BIG drinker), became a non-drinker and never read the rest of the book.

I borrowed just to learn and see what else was in there (I knew I'd never smoke again). After a few chapters a couldn't be bothered to continue.. but I tried...I'm always hungry for knowlage.. It was good stuff but it didn't matter really and I couldn't finnish.

All you need to know is IF you are ready and how it works (you learn to controle the part of your mind that wants its wants).. thats in the first few chapters..

So even if you don't like readiong...

I don't have tons of experience with this method and drinkers but the thing makes a hel_l of a lot of sense to me and worked for me and the woman who told me.

According to the book many heroin and cocain addicts etc have used it easily enough.

(I had tried to quit many times before and always had huge cravings-fighting it so hard you think you're going crazy)

If it seems like something you want to try-good luck

If not-good luck

If anyone is serious and interesting in something a little different I suggest the book "Rational Recovery" (I believe there are groups around etc too)

The book, like most of what actually works IMO, is opposite of the norm. Quite frankly I don't see the norm succeeding in much any where.

It challanges the notion that it is a disease and is basically opposite in almost every way to AA.

According to it the success rate in AA is way lower than people who just decide to never drink again.

It pisses off alot of AA people.

It is written for alcohol and drugs (they don't use the word addiction as it says you aren't in controle and can do nothing about it..like it says 'support group' says you can't do it alone and are too weak...or if you say you will never drink again they say you're in denial).

I used it for smoking. Actually I heard about the basic concept and became a none smoker on the spot with no real cravings or difficulty.

If you're open minded and ONLY IF you are ready to become a non drinker should you read. It will tell you to put the book down if you are not ready to make that choice.

They explain how to get rid of the cravings-actually worked like a charm for me.

Now I know everyone is different but IF someone is serious this stuff make so much sense (gets into the 'reptillian' brain where our 'cravings' so to speak come from.

Anyway I hope not to offend anyone in AA. Like I said its a different angle.

On a physical level I would try to eat healthy and suppliment with good quality fish oils (high omega 3s)

Some people that focus on this area get very good results with the fish oils and there have been studies that back it all up (fresults are all that really matters though) with.

It explains why when you challenge the notion of it being a disease why it makes some people upset too... Thats the reptillian brains way of keeping what it wants coming. It needs that excuse to get you to give it what it wants.

if interested check it out...

if not don't

LOL

Actually I feel sorry for Dentists that have to put in and take out and work with the mercury... They have to breath it in and there is evidence that its messing them up..

A dentist with this concisouness and understanding of health uses methods so you and he are minimally exposed when taking it out (they wouldn't put the garbage in I'd hope)

Actually (this isn't scientific but I think quite interesting). I was listening to a guy lecture onm health and this topic came up. He was at a convention lecturing on neuro something or other. When he was done he crossed the hall and popped into a lecture in dentistry. One of the audience stood up and challanged the speaker. Someone else stood up and started arguing with that guy. Pretty soon everyone was yelling etc etc (this is a proffesional conferance!!) Well his profeessional opinion was high metal toxitdity throughout the room.

Now this is kind of funny and it certainly doesn't prove anything...but he was serious in what he said.

mbkudu

Electromagnetic pollution does much more than studies have been allowed to show. I don't know all the factors but high voltage wires etc do have negative effects on the body that science actually does know about (but there are reasons its not given to public). "The Body Electric" I believe gets into this. Dr Robert Becker (I have not read this one but have another of his). Basically just minimize exposure to EMFs etc

There are different degrees and thoughts on health.

Stress is HUGE.. As is things that relieve stress like laughing and smiling and breathing exercises, relaxation exercises etc Mental/emotional/spiritual are number one. You can not look at the adrenals alone. You can't look at the physical alone. You can not look at Vit A alone. The whole and the system must work together. IMO

Prakanong-I probably should have said that untill resently many of the drug trials etc were tested mostly on men and this is the concisouness of the system.

One thing that is still done (correct me if I'm wrong:) is not pay attention to times of day for testing.

Example being tests on mice and rats. They are nocturnal!!! About 95% of modern drug development studies are done on them. And of course given to humans in the day.

even some sleeping pills are tested in the day!! crazy...

forgot this guy... Ray Peat raypeat.com

I haven't read the article properly but he comes highly recommended in general and I have read some of his other articles.

He works for no one (is idependant)!! He sells no products.

He's a researcher

The Ecologist figures 75 out of 15000 reaearchers (drug and food) that they looked at were independant.

Anyway heres an article on Breast Cancer

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/breastcancer.shtml

...:/

p1p-Thanks!!!

any luck getting organic virgun coconut oil in Thailand I would imagine so...

sea salt is the bomb eh? You use in your water as well or just for food?

Know off hand how the waters are around Thailand (metal toxidity in fish)

One more I'll shut up after

go to mercola.com and type in things like laughter. There are studies that prove its benifits for health and buildinhg the immune system etc

(Ray Boom Boom Mancinee, great boxer, had laughter as a part of his training schedual)

Laughter, human contact, love.. etc etc

k unless you mention somehting or e-mail I'll try to be quiet

One more thing. If you decide to go with any western aproach and treatments I strongly suggest you read "The Body Clock Guide For Better Health" -Michael Smolensky Ph D and Lynne Lamberg

It looks at circadian rythems etc and shows how meds etc in the am (for example) may work better than pm for some things/ I mean think about it. Your hormones vary throughout the day. Cortisol is up in the morning and lowers in the evening and melatonin goes up (for one example).

The effects of the drugs will be different depending on the time of day.

Also most drugs are NOT tested on women as thier hormone cycles make it much more difficult. Yet of course they dish them out easily enough.

Point being the amounts needed or best times to take meds is often varried. This is not common knowlage in the med community though it is not alternative (hippy) research.

It does talk specifically about cancer treatments etc

Now I am not a fan of the western aproach...but IF you went that way its something to look at in my opinion!

Onset of menstration for example is most common between 6am and noon-14% of docs asked knew this. (more than that must have been women too!)

"Research findings suggest that WHEN people with cancer recieve drug treatment...is at least as critical a determinant of how well they do as the dose or type of treatment they recieve."

-The Body Clock Guide To Better Health"

Again I would not go that route

Think positive the brain is more powerful than we know I think!!

In that case here is an article that give a little insight to some factors.

You gotta think for the body to work its best it all needs to work its best. You look at the toxic load and the detox system. I mean deoderants for example (whats in them ain't good for your body usually and look where arm pits are)

Sleep is huge for rest and repair (some people will do best in the time zone they were born in).

But 10-2 is generally (seasons etc come into play) physical recovery and 2-6 is psyc (mental/emotional etc) recovery. So sleep is huge-quality of sleep is huge and when too.

In 1910 the average adults slept 9-10 hrs a night (about 4,370hrs)

Currently average adults sleeps 7 if lucky!! (about 2,555hrs-8years ago it was 3,395)

These might be a year or two old..

But you get the point.. Sleep is HUGE and timing an quality.

do some looking on www.mercola.com if you so choose. Its the worlds #1 travelled natural health website and its good.

Dr Mercola was western trained but is all about the alternative and natural methods (I think he's had only 2 patients out of tons that he had to keep on cholesterol lowering drugs)

Type in cancer, breast cancer, any possible angles you can think of and there will likely be a lot of articles to choose from.

Chinese medicine and QiGong healers (the study of it all in India-they call it Prana and Chakras) I think this end is very big. It deals largely with the mental and emotional factors and how they manifest in the body and can effect healing etc Believe it or not there is western scientific evidence now that can actually look at things like 'Chi'

There is a woman in Malaysia that may have some suggestions

Feel free to e-mail me if you want. If any of this sounds like the direction you're looking.

I believe and understand the body to work as a whole and as a system and that ALL of its physical parts and all the others, mental/emotional/spiritual etc really all work together when it comes to health.

If not, no worries

All the best and think positive (there are many examples of how much the mond can do!)

I was wondering if anyone can give me an idea of how hard it is to get quality food/health products etc in Thailand

Organic might not be easy but I'm curious if typical Thai farming uses pesticides etc

What are animals mostly fed etc? Grains and corn etc or something more natural and healthy for them?

Can organic be found?

Unprocessed sea salt?

Is it possible to get quality water? High TDS, 300 or greater, hardness factor 170mg/L or greater. Preferably from an artesian well.

If not then RO water but then high quality sea salt is a must!!!

Thanks!!

Are any of the gyms designed to at least incorperate things like Olympic lifting, have med balls and SB, bosu, free weights, odd cable machine or are they all cluttered with thousands of dollars worth of cardio and weight machines?

A bit of oil of oregano and grape fruit seed extract on hand is a good idea in places like that..

It would be nice if things like that didn't make it through the stomach but sadly thats not true. There are many factors.

I don't know much about those little guys you had but I have learned a bit about parasites in general. (different herbs or meds are needed for different ones-need testing)

If one doesn't chew there food well then that is one way they can make it through. Chunks of food often don't get fully broken down and therefor the acid in the stomach etc doesn't kill off any little nasties in them.

Your transit time-how long from eating till it comes out-plays a big factor in how likely your little visitors will take up residance. Also since anything sitting in there for days starts to go bad and gets that enviroment real nasty (frindly to fungus, yeasts, parasites etc)

If you take a dump every third day you should really look at changing some foods and or habits etc and get $#!% moving. Health WILL suffer one way or another sooner or later.

Its not easy to get rid of these guys.

Now I don't know what those worms were but I thought it pertanent to discussion.

I have some guys along for the ride and know many people with them (most N. Americans have some)

So chew your food like your Momma always said.

wilko-totally agree but I think you can minimize somethings or at least do the best you can. Nothing will beat being healthy and eating, sleeping and drinking right.

-not in Thailand but.. (in US)

There are a few people I would contact if I was in a situation looking for where to turn. Dr. Oliver I have personally had some interaction with an I know he works with cancer patients. I also know he has loads of contacts.

This is really alternate stuff. And I know one thing, these guys know what they are doing and get results.

If you're interested in details feel free to email me [email protected]

If not all the best and keep a positive attitude and lots of love cause the mental/emotional aspects of healing are HUGE!!! IMO

Also I hear, but have had no direct contact, that Dr Getoff is very good and I know he works with cancer patients as well.

http://www.naturopath4you.com/ca.htm

Not sure if Dr Oliver has a site but I can get contact info. A very remarcable man. He will also be able to suggest what route is good to look down if nothing else.

This is healing and living and life not drugs and death and disease.

All the best

Thanks for the info!!

Regarding melatonin. I learned loads of good stuff about the stuff as well in my studies.

It largely depends on what paradigm you subscribe to.

I'm just sharing my opinions.

Doc told you...well I don't know what country the doc was in but Docs in the US (according to the highly respected medical journal JAMA) are the third leading cause of death.

I certainly don't look to docs about my health. Intervention from a car accident maybe.

If I worked nights I would use it also (maybe) and it is 'safe' IMO. But its also messing with your hormones and Nature.

The body is extreamly energy efficient and there is also a rule of 'use it or loose it.

In terms of your wifes studies etc. I just believe that there are different view points and paradigms.

Personally I believe we (docs, scientists, holistic health practitioners, humans) knows very little about the body. We have learned loads but we are still learning new things all the time and there is way more than we could ever grasp.

I think a good rule of thumb is to go natural and not mess with Nature more than we have to. Melatonin hasn't been studied that indepth for that long and no one yet knows the long term effects from taking it and more importantly the effects on the body from not needing to. (the body is extreamly efficient and tends to not use what it doesn't need too-see what happens if you cast a perfectly good arm)

We think we know so much but we just scratch the surface. I think man is very ignorant to think he can do better than Nature.

Just my opinion.

Its certainly safe compared with med prescriptions (those kill thousands a year-over 100,000 a year in US-properly prescribed and properly taken ones too...just side effects. -things they don't talk about..

IMO