Ryan754326

The reason I think it’s relevant is because if we’re going to force vaccines on those who don’t want them, then we should also be forcing lifestyle changes on the large part of the population who was responsible for straining our healthcare system before covid came along, and still continues to make up the bulk of those who die of covid, along with all of their other co-morbidities. It’s the same group of people who were already dying of heart attacks, strokes, and diabetes, who are now dying of covid in the greatest numbers, by far. The idea that vaccines alone can fix this problem, while people just continue on eating themselves to death, is not realistic.

It’s not irrelevant at all if your argument for mandatory vaccination is the cost and unnecessary strain that covid puts on hospitals.

What difference does it make? People with lifestyle related illnesses have been straining the system forever, and they represent a very large portion of those who are dying from covid as well. Without those people, the system could cope much easier. That’s all there is to it.

I’m just stating facts. I’m sorry if they’re inconvenient to you. If you can dig up a quote where I’ve ever denied the existence of covid, or it’s severity to certain groups of people I will delete my account on this forum, and you’ll never have to read one of my posts ever again.

I’m not talking about your relative. I’m talking about the people who knew the risks of smoking from the very beginning and chose to do it anyway, and then expected to be saved at any cost to the system when they predictably got cancer. These people have been taking up space in hospitals forever. I’m sorry if you think it’s disgusting that I don’t have much sympathy for them.

A good portion of the world isn’t smart enough to make most of the important decisions in life. Does that mean we should let the government make these decisions for us? Maybe they should decide what we eat, what we drink, how many hours a day we can spend sitting on the couch or at our computer desk, whether or not we’re allowed to make babies. It would probably improve a lot of people’s situation in life if they did, but it’s not the world I want to live in.

It was a question, and you didn’t answer it. Not trolling at all. You’ve suggested before that the unvaccinated should move to the back of the line for healthcare, so why shouldn’t someone who has been vaccinated, but also neglected their own health for decades, fall behind someone like me if there is limited care available?

Hospitals in my country ( Canada) have been overwhelmed like clockwork, every flu season, for as long as I can remember. Old people with chronic health problems, most of those related to obesity, kept them near capacity in the best of times.

Everyone is infecting everyone at this point. Cases are higher than ever and keep on rising, despite more and more vaccines being pushed on people. Once again, it blows my mind that you keep trying to deny this, even though I know, that you know, vaccinated people are still spreading it. A year form now, you will most likely have had covid too. Maybe then we will finally be able to move past this.

So as a young, healthy person who has been vaccinated, should I have the right to bump the fat old lung cancer patient out of his hospital bed if there aren’t enough left for me when I show up with a covid infection? Your denial that all of these self-inflicted health issues have any effect on anyone else is mind-blowing.

This again??? It’s been shown again and again that the vaccinated are still spreading covid, and when it gets shown to those here, they come back with, “yes, but it’s about saving the hospitals from being overwhelmed”. Well, drinkers, smokers, and and anyone else who lives a generally unhealthy lifestyle are straining healthcare systems too, and were doing so long before covid ever came along. So which is it? Do people need to get vaccinated because covid might kill them, even if they’ve already survived covid? Or is it about saving our overwhelmed healthcare systems? because if it’s that one, then those living unhealthy lifestyles are just as much to blame.

I’d be perfectly fine with a policy like that, as long as it also applies to those who drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, or eat too much McDonald’s. And I’m not throwing anyone under the bus. I’m arguing that they should take it upon themselves to do whatever they feel is necessary to protect themselves, rather than expecting everyone else to do it for them.

I disagree. How much extra capacity would our hospitals have if we took all of the people out of the picture who only remain alive today because of medical intervention, or a steady diet of prescription drugs? People who neglect their overall health by eating poorly and living a sedentary lifestyle are every bit as much of a strain on our hospitals as the willingly unvaccinated are.

No, it’s not the best way around. Those who are highly vulnerable to covid represent a tiny portion of the population. Right now, there are more unvaccinated people on this planet who simply can’t get a vaccine if they want one, than there are highly vulnerable people.

It seems to me like the people who don’t want to get vaccinated really don’t care what the obese do with themselves. It’s the minority of people who are most vulnerable to covid that seem to be the ones who want to put restrictions on others lives; not the other way around. If you’re afraid of getting hit by a car, it’s your job to stay off of the road. You can’t expect everyone else to stop driving so that you feel safe walking down the sidewalk.

I think you’re more worried about the “help others” part, than the “help themselves” part. Once again, you’re so focused on the anti-vaxxers, that you disregard all of the people in less developed countries who still don’t have access to a vaccine in the first place, and probably won’t have access for some time yet. These countries are where new mutations are most likely to pop up. Should those people also be forced to shut their lives off and isolate themselves until they have the opportunity to be vaccinated? The countries who do have easy access to vaccines, and high rates of vaccination, have tried excluding the unvaccinated from society, and it didn’t do anything to slow down the spread. If you think compulsion should be used to push people into being vaccinated, in order to take pressure off of our fragile healthcare systems, then why shouldn’t it be used to push people into eating better and exercising regularly? Maybe an obesity tax, or tightly controlled access to food that is high in fat and sugar are needed too.

I’ve never heard anyone suggest that old people, or those with co-morbidities should just be allowed to die. What is being said, is that going forward, those people should be ones who have to take extra precautions to protect their own health, rather than the whole of society. We can all make the world a safer place for the old and vulnerable by avoiding social contact with others in some hopeless attempt to slow the spread, but that will cause major disruptions in society. The way I see it, it makes a lot more sense for those vulnerable people to be the ones who limit their own social interactions, if they feel that they need to.

I’ve always accepted the reality that bad things can happen in life, and I’m grateful that I haven’t had to deal with a war in my lifetime, but getting on with it is exactly what most people seem to want to do at this point. There is no longer any good reason for those who are at low risk to be under any social restrictions. The UK government has apparently figured this much out, and is lifting them. All that it took was for a bunch of public servants to get caught partying, while everyone else was supposed to be locked down… And for people to see that those making the rules weren’t actually as scared of this virus as they wanted the general population to be.

The entire point of my argument is that the public health responses aren’t taking into consideration who is actually at serious risk from covid, and who is not. What you call an inconvenience has destroyed many peoples lives and businesses. There are restaurants in my area that were open for decades, that have shut down over this, and now those people are left trying to rebuild their lives from scratch. I don’t think my “perception” of risks in my day to day life is irrelevant either. It’s no perception, the numbers prove it; I’m at extremely low risk of anything bad happening if I catch covid (again). What do you think would happen if everyone perceived covid to be as dangerous as you do, and just decided it wasn’t worth the risk to go to work anymore? Medical systems would have collapsed long ago (along with rest of the economy) due to lack of tax revenues, rather than from too many people showing up at hospitals.

Call me whatever you want. My humble opinion is that most (not all) of the people who are claiming to have long covid are just anxiety ridden hypochondriacs looking for an excuse to stay home from work and collect welfare. If the nocebo effect can legitimately cause someone to think that they are suffering side effects from a vaccine, then why couldn’t it cause someone to think that their covid infection keeps lingering on in the form of symptoms that can’t really be measured, such as fatigue, brain fog, and muscle aches? I’m just telling it the way I see it: I know a lot of people who have had covid, and the only ones who claim to be suffering from some kind of long covid are the ones who need a week off of work every time they get a runny nose, or have some kind of unproven ailment that prevents them from doing any heavy lifting on the job.

Many jobs are in fact riskier than covid to the majority of younger people who are in good health. My example of a Thai moto-taxi driver is just one, and the numbers back that up. It doesn’t seem to occur to you that for many of us who are statistically at a very low risk of dying from covid, it’s an easy choice between taking our chances out in the world, or hiding inside and going broke.

I don’t see how the fact that I’m not living permanently in Thailand diminishes the point I was making. There are many people who have no choice but to spend every day doing a job that has a greater potential of killing them than covid does When you look at the numbers, do you think that the average moto-taxi driver in Thailand should be more worried about catching covid from his passengers, or being run over by a truck that is using the wrong lane to pass?

No, I’m not arguing against it, I’m arguing that it should be up to the parents of that child. Who is going to take responsibility in the rare circumstance that someone’s child suffers a severe reaction to the vaccine, or even dies? If the parents choose to have their child vaccinated, then that responsibility is theirs. If it’s forced, then that responsibility should be on the manufacturer of the vaccine, or the government who compelled them to accept it.

Sorry to bring an alternative viewpoint into the conversation. It just struck me as an interesting side point that if the nocebo effect is, in fact, real, which the research seems to confirm, then maybe it’s possible that it also affects those who have stressed themselves out more than necessary due to their fear of long covid.

Maybe he saw my reference to the even greater number of children who would still be alive today if we’d just forced those selfish swimming pool owners to fill them in with dirt. I bet all those parents who ignored the statistics wish they hadn’t left them sitting there full of water. Dig deeper into the statistics and you’ll also see that many of those kids who died of covid had much more pressing health concerns to begin with, so it’s not realistic to assume that all of them would have survived if they’d been vaccinated.