Ryan754326

I don’t know what to tell you. All of my pessimistic predictions have come true so far, and most of the optimistic ones that were being made by others when the vaccines first arrived have now been proven to be wrong. I’m not saying the vaccines don’t work, but they aren’t going to return us to normal. I suspect, like you, that nature will eventually take care of that. What I’m skeptical about, is whether politicians and the media will allow the hype to die down once the disease itself has.

You might be right. I hope you’re right. Only time will tell. Last spring, when the vaccines first arrived on the scene, I was called a conspiracy theorist and more when I said that it wouldn’t end at 2 jabs. “Why would you think that?”, they said. “The studies all show that the vaccines are 90-something percent effective at blah blah blah”. They’re already talking about the next generation of vaccines that will be tweaked for the new variants. Do you think those ones will be optional for people like me who have already had covid, and lived to tell the tale?

No, I can’t provide a link, it’s just my own pessimistic prediction, but back in 2020 when I said that mass vaccinations wouldn’t be the end of masks, social distancing, and travel restrictions, people called me a fear mongering pessimist too… yet here we are. If 3 or 4 jabs isn’t enough, then what’s the magic number? I’m well aware that an updated flu shot is required every year in order to maintain protection, but they were never a requirement to keep your job or go to a restaurant. It was a choice for those who thought they needed it. So where do you think this will end? If we all get 3 jabs, will Covid cease to be a problem like most people expected it would after two jabs? If it doesn’t, then how many should we be expected to take before we just accept that we live with a new disease that must be managed along with everything else in life?

I acknowledge that having been vaccinated may have lightened my symptoms and accelerated my recovery, although I’m fairly confident that I, personally, would have survived either way. The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t see why I would need any more jabs at this point, when the ones I’ve already had, along with natural immunity, appear to have done the job. What I don’t agree with is the the prospect of mandatory jabs every few months in order for someone to be part of society. If big pharma had their way, the whole world would be eating a Tylenol every three hours to prevent us all from ever getting a headache.

The point of my comment was that I’ve had the jabs, I’ve had the disease, I survived, and I don’t see why I should get any more jabs. Weren’t we discussing the apparently diminishing returns on repeated jabs spaced too closely together? The last bit was just me poking some fun at those who still believe that a healthy 35 year old will inevitably die if they contract covid. The data obviously suggests otherwise (vaccinated or not), but I’d never suggest that it can’t happen. If I delete that part of my comment, will you acknowledge the point I was actually trying to make, and explain why I would be wise to have a third or fourth jab down the road?

Yes, I said that, tongue in cheek, because at the time I got infected, none of my family and friends had known anyone at all who had been infected yet, and some of them were genuinely concerned that I might die, even though the statistics were very clearly indicating that I almost certainly would not.

Yes, I did consider that, and maybe that’s what saved me, but I’m in my 30’s, in good health, and I know plenty of unvaccinated people, much older and fatter than me, who brushed off covid just as easily as I did, so maybe it’s also possible that I just had a mild case like the majority of people who get covid. I’m not against vaccinations by any means, but I am against the idea that the only solution to this problem is endless booster shots for everyone, when the science apparently says that people like me (vaccinated + recovered from covid) should be “super immune” by now.

I’ve read all sorts of ridiculous stories about the vaccines causing strange side effects too, but I bet if posted links to those stories, you’d (rightfully) call it fake news.

If we’re even having to discuss a fourth shot, then why would anyone think it will stop with four? It looks to me like the plan is to have as much of the world’s population as possible getting jabbed every few months, until the end of time. It would be nice if the pharma corps would just come out and say as much, but I guess it’s easier to get people on board if you can convince them it will just take “one more”. I got my two jabs, and still got infected (miraculously recovered after a few days of sniffles). I’m done now.

You can greatly reduce that risk if you avoid quoting people who aren’t wearing a mask in their profile picture.

The UK is claiming that 95% of the population already has antibodies, so with the Delta variant tearing through the rest, the entire population should either be immune or dead in no time. But… they are reporting almost 40,000 cases per day, so if 3/4 of those are unvaccinated, wouldn’t that mean almost 10,000 of those are breakthrough cases?

I’m just telling you what other people tell me, and I don’t feel like I live in an echo chamber either, I associate with a fairly diverse group of people. Are you living in Thailand at the moment? How do the Thais that you interact with feel about the covid situation? I know that the ones I keep in contact with stopped worrying about catching covid a long time ago. Now they’re just worried about where their next meal will come from. I often hear the word “selfish” being used to describe anyone who thinks that their life and livelihood are more important than staying home and waiting for covid to disappear. Does it ever occur to the people making these criticisms that maybe it’s them who are being selfish, by expecting the rest of society to put their lives on hold in order to keep the minority of those at serious risk safe? I don’t know what the consensus is in your social circle, but for me, it’s extremely rare to meet someone who isn’t just tired of it all, and more than willing to take their chances with covid if it means getting their lives back. Even my 86 year old Grandmother has had enough of it all.

Has Howard Stern been vaccinated? If so, what is he worried about? There’s never going to be a 100% guarantee of safety against covid, even if every human on earth is vaccinated, but your chances of surviving are very good if you’ve had the jab, so why not just let those who refuse it take their chances with their own lives?

I feel the same way. I’ve never complained about the masks because I accept that I’m not going to win any arguments against them, but I don’t like them, and if they were to become normal and expected post-covid, I’d probably pack up my camper and move out into the woods. One thing that really gets on my nerves is the people who only ever leave their house once a week to buy groceries, telling me how it’s no big deal. I’m required to wear a mask at work, 12 hours a day, whether inside or outside, whether it’s 30 degrees, or minus 30. I spent last winter working outdoors with a block of ice growing on my mask; water running down my neck as my breath melted it. Seemed totally unnecessary. Another thing that gets to me is the people who have no social life thinking that we should keep them on forever. It’s not a big deal to throw one on before you walk into the store, but do we really want to live in a world where it’s required to wear one in a night club? I’m a young single guy. Having your face covered makes it a lot more difficult to meet a woman in public. It’s said that facial expressions and body language are more important than the actual words you use when talking to someone. Or am I just being selfish?

Maybe I’m downplaying covid, but I could argue that the government and media has played it up a fair bit, and I think many people would agree with me. I live in an area that was hit hard by covid, so people here have first hand experience with it, and most of us don’t feel like what we see in the media reflects what we see in our day-to-day lives. When people see politicians who are forcing small businesses to stay closed, and then going out to private dinners with their rich friends, they begin to wonder why those politicians don’t appear to be very worried for their own safety. When people see the stats showing that the majority of those dying are older than the average life expectancy, they begin to wonder why young, healthy people are being forced to live under the same restrictions as those who are actually at high risk. When people have recovered from covid without any serious complications, but have lost their job or their business due to shutdowns, they start to wonder if the cure is worse than the disease. I don’t meet very many people who deny that covid can be very deadly to certain groups of people, but I think we have to be more honest about who these people are, and stop with the one size fits all approach. I’ve never said that the initial restrictions were unjustified, but at this point, where I live, vaccines are available to anyone who wants them, so I think it’s time that we learn to live with this virus and move on. I do understand that the situation is different in Thailand and other countries, where vaccines are not yet widely available, but once they are, things should be opened up. Let those who refuse the vaccine live, or possibly die, with their decision.

I would guess that I’ve personally spoken to 20 or so people who have had a confirmed case of covid. I live with co-workers, and three of the five people living in our house tested positive last Christmas. Me and one other had no symptoms, so we were never tested - just told to quarantine for two weeks, and report any symptoms if they arose. I work at a mining operation, and at any given time there are thousands of people working on site. Every employee is tested every 72 hours. The mine did a maintenance shutdown last spring, and thousands more workers were brought in, and put into camps. Predictably, there was a major outbreak, and the shutdown had to be scaled back, but at one point, about 10% of the tests were said to be coming back positive. Things have calmed down now, but during that time, my company was losing a few employees a week due to either a positive case, or close contact with a positive case (we spend a lot of time on crew buses). The city nearby was overrun with covid for a few months during late winter/early spring, so anyone you talk to will know a few people who have had covid, or will have had it themselves. I’ve talked to plenty more people around here who believe that they had covid at some point, but like you, I disregard any stories that weren’t confirmed by a positive test. Here is an article from last April, describing the situation that we were in. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/canada/alberta/article-fort-mcmurray-declares-state-of-emergency-as-covid-19-cases-rise/

Everyone I know who’s had covid was over it in less than a week. Most in 2 or 3 days. I don’t know anyone who was hospitalized, or died, or ended up with long covid after the fact. I’m not saying that covid isn’t dangerous, or that it hasn’t killed people who appeared to be healthy, I’m just describing what I’ve seen within my own circle. You’d be amazed how many people refuse to believe me when I say this, and assume that I’m lying to promote an agenda. It’s interesting how upset some people get when you tell them that someone shrugged covid off like a mild cold. A lot of people still believe that covid kills 10% of those who get it. Even more seem to believe that vast numbers of children are dying.

According to a study posted on another thread, that is the probability of a vaccinated person spreading covid to another.

It seems like the hypochondriacs who live in an over-sanitized environment are always the ones who get sick the most. Maybe it’s time the world designates Australia as a sterile colony for those who can’t handle getting a cold once or twice a year.

Go on, tell us what the reason was.

Being safe is great, but at some point we have to accept that life comes with risks and let people get back to living like normal human beings. If a 1 in 5000 chance of spreading the virus is not an acceptable level of safety, then what is?

I’m not saying he should have guessed, I’m saying that he should have been much more careful about what he was implying. Did you watch the video? He plays down the effectiveness of masks and says that there’s no reason for anyone besides healthcare workers to be wearing them. Why not just say that scientists are looking into whether masks might help, but for now we have a shortage, and the ones we have are needed by doctors, so just stay home as much as possible? I have no interest in getting into a debate about Donald Trump. I don’t like the guy, and I never defended his policies or actions concerning covid, but he did stop arrivals coming in from China and was criticized for it at the time. Whether that was genuinely out of concern for people’s safety, or simply to appeal to his base, is a separate conversation that I don’t feel like having. You asked for a link showing that experts advised against closing borders, and I provided it.

Easy to Google the WHO position on lockdowns, but here you go. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/15/lockdowns-should-be-last-resort-whos-europe-chief-says.html https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12753688 Can we agree that Australia, with the military patrolling the streets, is in a state of “full lockdown”? I’m glad you’d never call anyone a Nazi, but can you also stop calling people covid deniers? (unless, of course, they actually deny covid). It’s an annoying thing to do.

So it never occurred to Dr. Fauci, one of the worlds most informed experts on infectious diseases, that covid might be airborne, and that maybe masks could help, even if they were just homemade cloth ones? I understand that there was a PPE shortage, and he didn’t want everyone rushing out and buying up all the available masks that were desperately needed for healthcare workers, but he should have chosen his words much more carefully. The link I posted clearly shows the WHO’s position on border closures at that time. Trump went against that advice and banned most incoming passengers from China. He didn’t ban all passengers from China because they were US citizens, and had a legal right to return. I would agree that it was incredibly stupid of him to not require those Americans to quarantine on arrival. The fact remains that experts DID advise against closing borders, and they were wrong.

How about the experts at the WHO who have been saying for a long time that lockdowns are a destructive and unsustainable strategy that should only be used under the most extreme circumstances? Why aren’t Australia and NZ listening to their advice? I brought up Nazis because thats what you get called nowadays if you disagree with certain people’s political beliefs, similar to the way that you called me a denier because I disagreed with your opinion on covid, despite the fact that I have never denied covid on this forum or anywhere else.