Ryan754326

I didn’t say the covid vaccine doesn’t work, I said that unlike the smallpox vaccine, which prevents infection completely, the covid vaccine does not completely eliminate the possibility of infection, or transmission to others. If the risk of vaccinated people spreading the disease to others is so low, as the peer-reviewed study posted in this thread is claiming, then why are the experts still worried about vaccinated people walking around unmasked? I’m not making any claims here, I’m just questioning the inconsistencies that I see in the information that is being presented to me.

Here’s Dr. Fauci’s early advice concerning masks. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/05/12/flashback_march_2020_fauci_says_theres_no_reason_to_be_walking_around_with_a_mask.html And here is the WHO advising against border closures, reported January 31, 2020. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1ZU1C2

I’m vaccinated, and have never denied the existence or the severity of covid. I just don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking questions, or listening to what a less popular expert has to say, and then comparing their opinion to what the TV says. Give it up with that tired old label. Do you call people nazis too?

Which experts? They all say different things. Some get more TV time than others.

Have the UK stated that 95% of the population have antibodies to the Delta variant that is the virus behind the new infections? From what I understand, being vaccinated is still very effective against Delta, at least in terms of preventing serious symptoms and death. The same appears to be true for natural immunity. Delta variant is still covid, so I would expect there to be some cross immunity between the variants, as is the case with other viruses. I’ve seen some research which even suggests that having come into contact with other common coronaviruses could give some level of immunity to covid, but I don’t know whether that has been disproven or not. If each new variant is, in fact, able to escape immunity from the last round of vaccines, then how can we ever expect to beat this? It seems unlikely that it will be possible to continually develop updated booster shots and get them into the arms of almost 8 billion people before the next variant pops up. Haven’t the UK relaxed a number of COVID related precautions? I don’t live in the UK, but from what I understand, yes, they have relaxed some restrictions. Here in Canada, we relaxed the restrictions in July, but we are now reinstating them due to rising case numbers. It will be interesting to see how things go when the colder weather comes. Case numbers and death numbers over the summer of 2021 were very similar to 2020, when no one was vaccinated, so who’s to say that we don’t see the case numbers go back up to where they were last winter, in the coming months? Has the number of vaccinated persons in the UK reached that required to prevent the rate of infections of the highly infectious Delta Variant from growing? I don’t know. What is the number of vaccinated persons required to prevent the rate of infections from growing? I hear that they are now saying 90% fully vaccinated. I guess we’ll have to wait and see if they’re right or not. I’m not a virology expert, so I don’t claim to have all the answers. I’m just a guy expressing my opinion on a discussion forum, and my opinion is that cases will continue to rise and fall regardless of the number of people who are vaccinated. If that happens, then I guess we’ll have to ask ourselves if we are willing to put up with periodic restrictions every time the numbers rise. I know that’s not the world I want to live in.

The UK is saying that 95% of their population has antibodies, but infection rates there continue to climb. At this rate, we’ll be wearing these many layers of protection forever. If the studies show that vaccinated people are at low risk of serious symptoms or death, and are extremely unlikely to spread covid to others, then why do they need all of these layers of protection?

Roll your eyes all you want, but the people in charge of making the rules apparently think that breakthrough infections and vaccinated spreaders are enough of a risk to justify keeping the vaccinated under the same restrictions as the unvaccinated.

Well, I wish my local health authorities would take this information into consideration when coming up with their policies, because I’m fully vaccinated, and yet here I am being required to wear a mask again, and not allowed to have more than five people (all from the same household) over for dinner, even if all of them are vaccinated too. If 99% of those who are hospitalized or dying from covid are unvaccinated, then why are public events that require a vaccination to attend being canceled? If the government is going to make the vaccines mandatory, then those who have had them should be able to get back to normal. The government, along with the Pharma companies, should also be willing to take responsibility if even a tiny percentage of those people have serious complications or die as a result of taking the vaccine.

1 in 5000? Okay…. I know two people who have had breakthrough infections, and I certainly don’t know 10,000 people.

The obvious difference here is that the smallpox vaccine actually stops the spread of the disease.

The story he told seems plausible enough. What is ridiculous about someone having to be re-vaccinated if they are required to travel for work? People are so eager to dismiss any anecdotal evidence that doesn’t back up their chosen narrative. I’ve had several people accuse me of lying about the two breakthrough infections that I personally know of.

Israel is already discussing a fourth round of jabs, so we can probably look forward to a future where we’re all required to have two or three boosters a year if we want to be allowed out in public, and an extra one thrown in for good luck every time we want to cross a border. I said from the beginning that it would play out like this, and everyone called me an idiot. These vaccines are like a flu shot; They will most likely keep you from getting sick, but they’re not going to make covid go away.

There seems to be a lot of conflicting evidence around. This study claims that being vaccinated significantly reduces the spread, but then other studies show similar viral loads in vaccinated people compared to unvaccinated people. We know that the vaccines do a good job of preventing symptoms, so how can we know how many breakthrough infections are really happening, unless we start doing mass testing of vaccinated people? I don’t buy the story that infections among the vaccinated are “extremely rare” (this article is saying 1 in 5000), since I personally know two fully vaccinated people who have had breakthrough infections, confirmed by tests, as they both had mild symptoms. I’ve heard a few people claim that a vaccinated person who is asymptomatic would be extremely unlikely to spread the virus, but after being told for the past year and a half that asymptomatic spread is what is driving this pandemic, I don’t buy that either.

I would think that we really have no idea how many breakthrough cases are happening, because most of them will be asymptomatic and undetected. I don’t deny that most (known) cases happening now are among the unvaccinated, and I don’t deny that being vaccinated might mitigate the spread to a certain extent, but I don’t think it matters; If someone is infected, the virus is replicating inside their body, and if it’s replicating, then the possibility of a mutation is always there.

That’s a bold claim considering the number of vaccinated people who are still becoming infected.

Get vaccinated and you’ll be fine.

Yes, I think you’re right that they mean 70% of those who are eligible for the vaccine, but it doesn’t change the fact that our death numbers have dropped to almost nothing. And yet, in spite of the low number of deaths, the health authorities are still peeing their pants over case numbers. If the whole idea is that vaccination won’t prevent infection, but will prevent serious illness, then why should cases that don’t require hospitalization be any reason to worry? The under 12 crowd has always been spreading the virus, but very few actually get very sick. The US CDC currently counts less than 500 deaths among those under 18, in a population of over 330 million. https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3 Considering that most kids who get infected with covid have no symptoms, you have to wonder how many of them already have natural immunity, but let’s not let that stop our governments from buying a few million more vaccines from the Pharma companies, just to be safe. What ever happened to antibody testing?

Apples vs oranges. It took decades to get those diseases under control, and the world wasn’t expected to remain in a state of lockdown until it was achieved. The smallpox and measles vaccines also gives sterilizing immunity, so it doesn’t continue to spread within a vaccinated population. There’s nothing anti-vax about me - I’ve had my jabs. I just don’t agree with forced vaccination and vaccine passports, mostly because I don’t see any evidence that these vaccines have what it takes to make covid go away. I’m also confident that by being vaccinated I will be protected from covid, so it’s none of my concern whether someone else chooses to take a risk with their own life.

I was being hypothetical when I said 100%. Fauci is apparently now saying that 90% is the new magic number. If that fails, 100% seems like the next logical conclusion.

I wonder if those who are so concerned about other people’s lives spend as much time and energy trying to talk them out of riding motorcycles in Thailand.

Who says 90%? Indefinite booster program? For the whole world? That doesn’t sound very feasible, but at least big pharma will make a ton of money trying. If that doesn’t work, I guess we’ll have to shoot for 110%.

So what percentage should be the new target? What happens if that number still isn’t enough? Aiming for 100% is unrealistic, especially when we haven’t even approved the vaccines for children yet. I have no issue with localized lockdowns and mask mandates when hospitals are overwhelmed, but that hasn’t been the case in my area for quite a while now. At this point, any further restrictions should be based on available hospital capacity, not case numbers.

I’m tired of wearing masks too, but Canada hit its target of 70% vaccinated, and as soon as they loosened up the rules, cases started to rise; Now they’re telling us we have to wear them again. So what is the magic number that we need to reach herd immunity now? what happens if we hit 100%, and cases still continue to pop up? Right now, Canada’s 7 day average death rate is under 20 per day, and yet we’re still freaking out about a few hundred new cases, and reinstating restrictions that were only lifted less than two months ago. At what point will it be considered safe to go back to normal? I understand that the situation in Thailand is different. I’m just using my home country as an example of how some governments apparently won’t let this go until covid has completely disappeared from the face of the earth. If that’s the goal, we’ll be wearing masks and eating take-out forever.

I was thinking the same thing. I’ve yet to meet an anti-vaxxer who cares one bit whether anyone else gets the jab or not. All they want is to be able to make their own choice, for better or worse. If the evidence was showing that these vaccines could stop covid in its tracks, then I might be a bit more sympathetic to the idea of making it mandatory, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. I’ve had my jabs, so I’m not concerned with whether the guy sitting at the next table in a restaurant has had his or not.

You say that as if this whole thing would already be over and done with, if not for a few anti-vaxxers. Most countries in the world don’t yet have enough vaccines to make a dent, and even the most vaccinated countries haven’t started vaccinating children yet, but I don’t hear anyone blaming the kids for dragging this on longer than necessary. England claims that something like 95% of the population has antibodies already, either due to previous infection or vaccination, but cases are still rising there. Here in Canada, we are claiming to have over 70% fully vaxxed, and something like 85% with one shot, but cases here are also rising again, and mask mandates just came back into effect in some provinces. It will be interesting to see how things look when the cold weather rolls around again. More and more experts are beginning to accept that this virus will probably never be eradicated, at least not with the current vaccines. Luckily, for those who have been jabbed, the vaccines seem to do a good job of suppressing serious symptoms, so why not just be happy with the fact that you will most likely be okay when you inevitably come into contact with covid?