khunkarl

14 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

you really need to check your info before posting -

Of I'm sorry it's was an RoRo vessel having cargo not a ferry carrying passengers. A RoRo vessel carrying cargo is in technical terms a cargo ship.

1 hour ago, cardinalblue said:

How are they going to collect the garbage? It will be washing up on the island beaches in a matter of days...

 

And then the resort managers will hear the complaints from the guests...

 

The garbage should never leave the island and put it at risk for potential ocean contamination...

 

Koh Samui has enough generated waste volume to justify an incinerator...terrible waste management practices....

 

this is a high risk incident rather than an accident and will continue to be so...

Yes it's much better to put in a land fill which they been doing since the incinerator blew up 2008.. Seriously of course a lot better to ship the garbage to the mainland until there is a incinerator running on the island. Of course it's very bad that all this garbage ended up in the sea but there are ways to retrieve it. Same as the fuel and the oil from the sunken ship and the trucks on it. This is the first time a ship of this size sunk here. Stop to ship garbage to the mainland because of that? Ok but then no fuel trucks should be allowed either as they pose a much bigger threat than garbage. Then we can go back to horse and carriage.. It's an island we need sea transport as a fish needs water.

1 hour ago, keystonecoppers2 said:

 

 

 

                                  Khunkarl.

 

              I agree with you that precautions will make a progress to be

              safer sailing in the future, but it will never be 100%, because

             of human error. Estonia was a human error, made by the captain

             and his officers on the bridge. They where speeding more than was

             needed in the very bad sea, because they where racing against another

             passenger ship from Helsinki, both en route to Stockholm. Why?

             Because they wanted to get to the Stockholm archipelago first,

             you could say ego took over.

             Scandinavian Star was a human error as well, even if arson was involved. 

             They had rebuilt the corridors on both starboard and port side,

             actually making it a death trap, instead of a safe way out, as it was, before 

             rebuilding. The human error I would suggest lies at the hands of the

             "architects" for the new layout, as well in the hands of the shipyard people

             that did not "see" what mistake they where about to build.

 

             I`ve been sailing for more than 40 years, and everytime I`ve been to

             a fire course (every 5 year, 5 days, mandatory), discussions always come up

             about S. Star. 

             Try to Google the ship and find the blueprint, then you know what I`m 

             talking about.  Anyway, nice to talk to a fellow seaman.   Cheers!     

 

             

 

Dear Keystonecoppers!

Nice to come across a fellow seaman here. I'll send you a private message.

Cheers!

I've been giving this some thought as a seafarer myself. In my opinion the rapidness of events does indicate that Raja 4 did not have sufficient ballast. Therefore not overloaded but the exact opposite. And probably they didn't fill any as they normally don't need to. Which would result in heavy rolling causing rapid water intrusion and/or shift of cargo, even if the trucks were properly secured which I doubt they were, as again normally not needed. Probably just a wedge to prevent them from rolling forward and back, which is useless when the ship rolls side to side. RORO vessels (which stands for roll on roll off) are in particular vulnerable for heavy rolling side to side. As a seafarer my thoughts go today the victims and their families. It's so sad this had to happen when it could have been avoided in the first place.

16 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

He's dead.

Even worse

29 minutes ago, keystonecoppers2 said:

 

 

                      Please keep in mind, this kind of accidents happens all over

                      the world.

                      The capsize of a passenger ship very close to land in Italy,

                      "Concordia" something, where the Captain fleed the ship like

                      a rat, and sure, he was a rat! The passenger ship in S. Korea,

                      with another rat Captain fleeing, to save HIS life, and leaving

                      school shildren to die (I have pictures of that one, after salvation

                      of the ship, lying on a pier in a harbour where my ship came in to.

                      If you want to have a look, just say so and I will give it to you all).

                      The Estonia ship in the Baltic Sea, The fire accident of "Scandinavian

                      Star" between Norway and Sweden, not to mention all ferry accidents

                      around the Philiphine Islands. I could go on, but I guess you get the picture!

                      And most of these accidents are related to "human error".

                      And for sure, it will happen again and again, no matter what

                      precautions anyone will take.

                        

 

It happens everywhere in the world, totally correct. It will happen again no matter what precautions we take, totally wrong. Of course it will happen again but precautions, risk assessment, stability calculations, updated weather reports, ship maintenance, good seamanship and so much more are all keys factors for a safe sea passage. I've been working at sea for 20 years of my life and it's not by mere chance I'm still alive to do continue do the same. By the way Estonia sunk because the captain was pushing his ship 3 times as hard as any another passenger ferry of the same size in the same waters that night. Scandinavian star was arsoned  due to a insurance fraud..

4 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

No! Extremely unlikely.

 

although Raja 4 if that was the boat is quite small a fewwtrucks would not overload it. 

What invariably happens is water gets onto te cargo deck - tis this and the load slurps around th boat is flipped. This can be incredibly quick too.

 

As for setting off, rthat is a different matter - virtually EVERY Ro-RO ferry in Thailand is suitable to sail on only flat seas - any strong swell or chop is potentially lethal for these vessels.

My guess is that because it was a "trade only" crossing the skipper or someone decided to push the envelope a little as there were no tourists to get frightened or sick.

 

Overloaded, poor stability, free liquid surfaces it doesn't really matter, the ship should never have left port as it was not seaworthy the weather, if seaworthy at all! An example of poor seamanship and a reminder how quickly things can go badly wrong at sea. Estonia sunk in the Baltic sea 1994 because the captain's priority was the time schedule and not the safety of ship and passengers. The other passenger ferries did 4 knots that night when Estonia did 15 knots. Because of that captain's poor judgement 852 people lost their lives that night.

4 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

I don't believe how naive this comment is - you realise this is THAILAND we are talking about???

As explained, as it should be but here are things not as they should be. Read the entire comment again if you don't understand.

4 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Or how about the captain of the boat ignored the bad conditions and still went ahead ?  

Probably he was under pressure by the ship owners however taking the gamble with the weather makes him a captain with poor judgement. And now he will have to take the full responsibility for what has happened. If he had refused to leave port the worst that could have happened was him being sacked. Sad story and loss of lives that should not have happened. ????

9 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

You got angry and became annoyed .

Do you realise that in Thailand , getting angry and annoyed is seen as a weakness and of a person who is unable to control themselves ?

  You showed yourself to be weak, lacking self control and also rude and confrontational 

That is probably true. I was annoyed not angry, that's another level. However living here as farang never getting annoyed would surely result in high blood pressure or worse. Have you never seen annoyed Thai people? And have you never been spoken to rudely by a Thai person? If that's I'm moving to where you are living.. I've never claimed I'm perfect, I'm just human.

11 minutes ago, CH1961 said:

He is German, he can't smile ... and can't accept. 

No I'm not German, that's just you being judgemental

6 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

They quite clearly explained to you that they couldnt sell you the soy sauce because of its alcohol content .

  An *OK*, shrug of the shoulders and a smile would be an acceptable reply

So I'm under trial here suddenly as have been questioning why, when I thought they were wrong, which they are quite often in the LOS. I become annoyed yes, not optimal maybe, but I have not shown bad manners by solely arguing. I did not raise my voice and using any foul vocabulary. For this I have know been accused of childish bad manners and should be considered persona non grata according to another members earlier quote. It's not me having bad manners here... ????

16 hours ago, BigStar said:

No, stupid farang not listening, wants to argue because of course thinks he knows better, can't or won't understand the rule, and showing childish bad manners, not appropriate in Asia.

 

Just another bad impression. They need to tighten up visas and extensions more.

So it's bad manners to want to know why when they can't explain probably. Just accepting everything with a smile, that's how you get through daily life here is it? <deleted>...

1 hour ago, PEE TEE said:

I did not know the ferries ran after 7pm. sad news i wonder how good the inspections for safety are on the  Raja company? 

 

It was a cargo vessel not a ferry fortunately. There are classification societies that at least annually checks the standards of ships. Without classification the ship owners can't get any certificates, which they need to legally operate their vessels. How that works here in Thailand is for me unknow but it is a worldwide standard so I can't see how they can do differently, but it's obviously not as it should be.

1 hour ago, DoctorG said:

Overloaded/badly balanced?

Without doubt as it rolled over just 2 nautical miles from port.. A port it should never have left.

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Agreed, it's silly really, but them's the rulez ????

 

Do outlets need an alcohol licence to sell Kikkoman?

I seriously doubt that. Would a sushi restaurant need a alcohol license having Kikkoman on the tables?

13 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

Why you buy soy sauce with alcohol? You bad man! I buy Yamamori Tokkyu, much cheaper and no have alcohol showing. You try.

Kikkoman is the best brand but yeah maybe I'll try that one if when I go shopping during the banned hours ????

It's not difficult, find places were they are polite and attentive and stick to them.

On 7/11/2020 at 9:48 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

The island that sold its soul for greed got its comeuppance!

I for one have no sympathy.

I stopped going there last century when it went trendy and expensive. Kicked the cheap places out ( like Charlie's hut ), destroyed the old Ark bar and built horrid concrete places everywhere.

Couldn't believe it last time I sailed past on the ferry to Phangan- concrete villas destroying every hillside. Used to be a great place to holiday- Chaweng is one of the most beautiful beaches I've ever seen, but ruined by greed and aircraft.

Only people to blame are the Thais that destroyed it to get rich.

And the first price for the most cynical statement of the century goes to...

On 7/22/2020 at 11:35 AM, Tropicalevo said:

Let's waste some money on the unimportant stuff. Cameras do not stop accidents. They record what happened.

 

Street lights are quite helpful though..

I totally do sympathize with these brave young people who are opinionwise representing the large majority of Thais. However these peaceful demonstrations tends to become less peaceful as tensions build up. They are in their total right to demonstrate and express their demands. But once the police goes in and makes arrests, things will turn ugly and hell can brake lose. However it's not 1976 it's 2020, the world is watching and social media is a powerful weapon. I seriously doubt the army can repeat the Thammasat university slaughter, that happend 1976 in Bangkok, on a nationwide scale and get away with it. Regardless it's the same generals and their descent still ruling the country as it was then...