1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

There is ample data on Sinovac side effects.

Could you give some sources to read up on them?

47 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Please note that spreading false rumors about COVID/COVID vaccines is a crime under Thai law. People have been arrested for ti, and it pouts the forum in jeopardy.

'nuff said.

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

states that there is sufficient evidence of safety in

I quote page 32: "moderate level of confidence"

I would not call this "sufficient evidence"

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Ya think they run these tests and don't keep track of side effects? And if there were serious side effects, they would still be using this stuff. Your kind of objection smacks of desperation. That said...

CoronaVac’s Overall Efficacy in Brazil Measured at 50.4%

"Localized pain was the biggest side effect of Sinovac’s shot, as well as headaches and fatigue but there haven’t been any serious adverse effects recorded, according to Butantan. Seven volunteers in the placebo arm of the trial needed hospitalization, while none in the group who received the shot did."

CoronaVac’s Overall Efficacy in Brazil Measured at 50.4% - Bloomberg

 

Turkey says China's Sinovac COVID vaccine 91.25% effective in late trials

Turkish researchers said on Thursday no major side-effects were seen during their trial, apart from one person who had an allergic reaction. Common adverse effects caused by the vaccine were fever, mild pain and slight fatigue, they said.

Turkish researchers said on Thursday no major side-effects were seen during their trial, apart from one person who had an allergic reaction. Common adverse effects caused by the vaccine were fever, mild pain and slight fatigue, they said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-turkey-china-int/turkey-says-chinas-sinovac-covid-vaccine-91-25-effective-in-late-trials-idUSKBN28Y1R3

I knew what Butantan says, and they are certainly trustworthy.

The Turkish report,  I didn't know.  Thank you for linking it.

(BTW Turkey uses Pfizer right now,  but I don't think that's relevant here)

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You can start with this link

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1218065-thailand-reports-3382-new-covid-19-cases-17-more-deaths/?tab=comments#comment-16500935

All about effectiveness, nothing about side effects.

BTW all behind paywalls, not easy to read

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Phase III trials were conducted in Turkey, Chile, Indonesia and Brazil overseen investigators from multiple countries including Western ones.  The panel of experts which reviewed the data included scientists form North American and Europe.

 

Sinovac WHO.pdf 4.51 MB · 1 download

 

https://www.who.int/immunization/sage/members/en/

Yes, and the WHO concluded to NOT approve Sinovac. Not yet.

Because they were not convinced there were no side effects, as they write in this paper. 

They did approve Sinopharm, so probably no anti-China bias.

Now let us wait and see if these guys will come to a more definitive conclusion. 

3 minutes ago, Fromas said:

 

I don't plan to. My point was : Keep political biases out of it. 

You tried to introduce a political bias

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

've been posting this stuff ad nauseam

Where?

I am interested in the side effects of Sinovac, not the effectiveness, which is well documented. 

6 minutes ago, Fromas said:

Look at Taiwan now. Perfect?

This thread is about Sinovac.

If you want to talk about public health response in Taiwan,  still about the best in the world, feel free to start a new thread.

15 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

 

here are some reports about the China vaccine, if you read the article, you will see that
China didn't report any, Not One,  death related to the vaccine and the ones that were reported by Hong Kong they were "miraculously"  reported as people with "other" disease..... and some of the Chinese lovers would claim that's a non reliable source from the philippines but HK news reporting has been removed from my site. I never trusted crooks and cheaters, thus will never trust China and have plenty of reasons to do so as I lived there for 12+ years thus know first hand how it works over there

 

https://www.manilatimes.net/2021/04/06/opinion/columnists/topanalysis/shocking-report-on-sinovac-vaccinations-increased-covid-cases-after-using-vaccine/860478/

Shocking report on Sinovac vaccinations: Increased Covid cases after using vaccine

In response to the death of 13 people in Hong Kong after receiving the vaccine, authorities responded on March 30, saying that current data show that most of the cases died of cardiovascular disease and none of the individual cases were directly related to the vaccination.

 

 

 

That's from the Epoch Times, not exactly without bias when it comes to Covid19 or China. 

But there seems to be no unbiased reporting,  China keeps a lid on it.

Why?

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

There are now many studies outside of Hong Kong that show very low serious side effects for Coronavac

Please give me links to just a couple of these "many studies"

49 minutes ago, Jimbo2014 said:

So kind of like not having a vaccination at all

No.

The calculation works like this:

We have an unvaccinated group of people. 

Some people get infected (we don't know how many,  and we don't care how many). We end up with 100 symptomatic cases.

Now a group of the same size, same circumstances,  but they are vaccinated with Sinovac.

Only 50 end up with symptoms of covid. 

That's 50% efficacy against symptomatic infection.  Not very good,  but better than nothing. 

Now repeat with another,  bigger group of unvaccinated people and see how many will get seriously sick. It turns out, in this group 100 people get seriously sick.

Now again a group of the same size, same circumstances,  but they are vaccinated with Sinovac.

Only 20 end up seriously ill.

That's 80% efficacy against seriously illness, quite good.

My problem with Sinovac is not the efficacy. It is the fact that we know nothing about side effects. Sinovac and governments (does any democracy use Sinovac?) are not transparent, and the fears of the public are downplayed and ridiculed.

One would not expect a lot of serious side effects, because it is a traditional vaccine,  effects and side effects should be limited.

But blindly trust an injection from a Chinese company known for corruption and vaccine scandals? That's what they ask me to do.

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

So why the comment about lack of stories about side effects? To those of whom it would be a concern there seem to be plenty.

Stories, there are plenty. 

Serious studies,  hard to find.

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I have the sinovac vac tomorrow and drop dead, it wont be noted, studied, published,

Thai social media are full of stories like that.  I doubt them very much. 

But they are ridiculed,  written off as fake news or hysterical reactions of stupid Thai girls...I would rather see serious studies. 

15 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I used google translate to turn the following phrase into portuguese: brazil sinovac coronavac side effects

 I googled the translation. efeitos colaterais do brasil sinovac coronavac

You might want to try that.

I did that long ago. No need for google, I used to live in Brazil.

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Have you stopped to consider there may not be any rare side effects of note, therefore no side effects to study or publish. I'm pretty sure if people are dropping dead, results will be published, the same as any other vaccine.

I am still very confident that health departments all over the world are monitoring "all" vaccines equally for side effects, not sure why they would leave sinovac off the list.

I have considered that there may be no rare side effects at all. I even opened a thread with this title. 

It is hard to believe. Every vaccine (not only covid vaccines) tends to have some side effects.

6 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

health departments all over the world are monitoring "all" vaccines equally

No.

Western health department do not and cannot monitor Sinovac(it is not used in the West).

And China is smart enough to sell the stuff only to countries they can buy off should the need arise.

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

50.4 percent. That figure is repeatedly cited here by vaccine bashers. Where do you think they got that from from? Reading medical journas? And has repeatedly been pointed by epidemiologists and public health community, that is a very poor criterion by which to judge the usefulness of a vaccine.

That's correct. 

Butantã has said that, too (those 50.4% came from Brazil).

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

In most of the English speaking world and Europe, the Chinese vaccines aren't being used. So naturally there will be less written about it.

?????

Other languages can be written, too. Maybe not by you.

Even Chinese can be written,  in case you didn't know.

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S1473-3099(20)30843-4/fulltext

Are you kidding? That's the phase 1/2 study. 

I want studies of rare side effects in the millions who received Sinovac in real life, just like we have these studies for the Western vaccines.

10 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Its looking bit shabby. Will renew soon.

I have been warned by 2 different airlines that they wouldn't let me fly again with my shabby pp (5 years old, valid for 5 more years).

One of them, the problem could be solved by paying a small fee (no, not THAI - their country is in the top ten of Tranparency International)

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Where do you get this from ? Nobody is registering and counting sinovac side effects ?????

Every country in the world records side effects for all vaccines. Its part of the approval process, a process to monitor and record effectiveness, side effects etc.

Go to a doctor/hospitial anywhere in the world with vaccine side effects, there will be a process in place to monitor/record the side effects

 

Show me publications of Sinovacs side effects,  please.

Especially publications as thorough as the ones for side effects of mRNA vaccines,  AZ, J&J.

I will read them with great interest. 

9 hours ago, DavisH said:

It was about 400 students, actually (my error). Severe side effects are rare, any way you look at it. No vaccine is 100% safe for everyone. I think most people know that. The problem there is a lot of misinformation that Thais will grab hold of. The last one I heard of was that each jab takes 2 years off your life. I think the more people that vaccinate and show no/few side effects may encourage more people to get vaccinated. They are far more likely to fall off their bike and die on the road than from any vaccination. 

400 is way not enough.

Rare side effects happen with every vaccine,  and you have to vaccinate millions AND REGISTER AND COUNT AND PUBLISH THE SIDE EFFECTS. 

That's how the world learned about anaphylaxis with mRNA vaccines and thrombosis with vector vaccines (in the magnitude of 10 per million).

This is not happening with Sinovac, that's why they cannot be trusted.

14 hours ago, mohinga said:

U.S. stops Brazil from importing Sputnik V

You probably are not familar with the medical establishment in Brazil.

Butantã has a worldwide reputation. They are quite capable of deciding themselves. 

They had reasons to refuse Sputnik.

BTW They accepted Sinovac, I don't think the US was happy about it.

8 hours ago, zhounan said:

donor countries

Correct: vendor countries

Sinovac is the most expensive of all vaccines in Thailand as published elsewhere on TVF.

8 hours ago, treetops said:

 

Five times weekly to Helsinki - it coul be your next leg restricting it further.

 

That's what their website says, I know. And they will happily accept my money for these published trips.

Question: do they actually physically fly and transport passengers?

Flight radar (thx, corman) and the airport websites seem to be the only option to find out.

7 hours ago, josthomz said:

 

Donated. Free. 

 

They have sold 2,000,000 doses to Thailand, and donated this last batch of 500,000 doses which 200,000 are destined to Chinese nationals. 

 

Is that so bad? 

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/thailandnews/china-donates-500000-doses-of-sinovac-vaccine-to-thailand-355361

Do you consider the pattayamail a trustworthy source?

9 hours ago, josthomz said:

 

 

What you are (purposefully) forgetting to state is that anyone born in Hong Kong after 1997 get's a People's Republic of China passport, which would qualify them for getting the vaccine here in Thailand. 

 

You were born in a HK which belonged to the UK, and thus your nationality is British (British Overseas). Even if Hong Kong now belongs to the PRC, it's not the place where you were born; and you weren't either born from Chinese parents, since your parents also were British citizens of Hong Kong. 

 

Nevertheless, if you wanted to for example say live in China, you could just apply one of those Mainland ID Card's for HKers and you could reside in the Mainland without any hassles, whereas say a British citizen not born in Hong Kong would still need a Mainland VISA and Residence Permit. 

 

So yes, IMO you were not born in the People's Republic of China and neither your parents were citizens of the People's Republic of China, so why should they give you PRC nationality? 

 

And answering to your post title: The Chinese have donated 500,000 doses of the vaccine for the Thai elderly and sick, can you really criticize them for ensuring that around 200,000 of those doses go to their nationals?

 

People born in Hong Kong after 1997 but who have the wrong skin color are not considered Chinese nationals by China. 

Millions of people who are of Chinese race (what's that?) but have never in there lives been to China (neither have their parents or grandparents) are considered Chinese nationals by China.