Kiujunn

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

I don't think that  is  correct. WHO released advisory panel findings which noted insufficient data on adverse effects in people over 60 and people with certain chronic diseases .  As far as I know they have not yet issued a decision on whether or not to approve it for emergency use. It is possible they still will (though likely only for those under 60). Or they may hold off on a decision until more data is available.

 

I attach the actual WHO Advisory Group briefing for those interested.

 

Sinovac WHO.pdf 4.51 MB · 1 download

 

Playing with words. 

China and Sinovac were hoping for WHO approval this week. Sinopharm got it, China gained face. Sinovac didn't - no loss of face?  Of course,  if they can provide better data they may still get it, and they may deserve it.

My point is mainly about trust and distrust.

Many Thais are scared of Sinovac, and the history and behavior of Sinovac makes this understandable.

But for a vaccine to work you need the trust of the people.

On 2/6/2021 at 7:26 PM, TaoNow said:

The third group are the budget, world travelers who were attracted to Thailand for its lax enforcement of minor drug offenses (e.g., weed).

If you mean young farang, travelling the world - they left Thailand long ago.

For them,  Thailand is a boring destination where they had to travel with mom and dad, as a kid, 20 years ago. It is just another Cancún or Mallorca.

They go to Myanmar and Laos, Beijing, Berlin and NZ.

On 5/4/2021 at 7:17 PM, TaoNow said:

re-surfacing

Thailand's bad reputation is very sticky. 

It doesn't just disappear in a year or two.

In Europe, it will take decades to get rid of it, even it is outdated already.

In China, Thailand never had this reputation.

On 5/6/2021 at 6:40 PM, TaoNow said:

 

Exactly Ben.  And my calculation is that Thai society -- as a whole -- is willing to trade that smile for the eradication of the image of Thailand as an international sex tourist mecca.  IOW, they would willingly forego the lost income as a result.

Sex hasn't been the selling point of Thai tourism for years. 

Chinese come for an exotic locale, shopping and food. They are not into Thai girls. 

Neither are Russians, they mostly have their own women.

Even many of the Europeans nowadays are family tourists. 

On 5/11/2021 at 7:51 PM, TaoNow said:

Covid-19 catastrophe.   It is in no one's interest to let that happen

Are you talking about Thailand or the pandemic generally?

Jeff made 100bn from the pandemic, give or take a few billion

Pfizer made 1bn

That urologist in Tyrol who sold fake tests to his buddies in the local goverment made 1m

My friends at my old work place all made almost 100,000 (full salary, WFH, nothing to do at all, just watch netflix)

You can profit from the pandemic, and in Thailand too.

On 5/6/2021 at 7:11 PM, TaoNow said:

he key point to keep in mind is that the sex industry is demand-driven. 

Wasn't foreigner-oriented sex industry in Thailand after the VN war the exact opposite?

The girls were here, so the customers came, from Europe, later Japan or Korea.

There certainly always was high demand in a place like Switzerland - but why should Swiss fly to Bangkok to have sex?  Because they built it, and they came,  even from far away.

I don't think it started because Europeans started to want Asian girls,  so let's fly to Thailand and find one. That would be demand driven.

13 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

this virus will never go away.

Ending the pandemic doesn't mean the virus has gone away. It means it has become endemic,  with sporadic infections,  maybe severe ones.  But no more tsunamis of sick flooding hospitals. 

15 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

this rise in infections is due to them letting their guard down, not wearing masks, not social distancing, not protecting themselves

Yes, and letting tourists in too early.

Which other country do you know that wants the tourists to return in July,  even hardly anybody in the whole country is vaccinated?

19 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Hopefully, more jabs will be coming out soon that have a better efficacy.  Until then, the Chinese ones help keep people out of the ICU.

Correct.

Actually,  better jabs are here already but not available for most people in the world. Because of hoarding (Canada), patents, production bottlenecks, because someone wants a kickback or because a locally produced vaccine is exported (EU, Russia, China).

13 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

There is an article in the New England Journal of Medicine which I think is quite persuasive  https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2104882

 

Note however this discussion is solely with regard to the vaccines that use an Adenovirus platform (AZ and J&J). And that all studies confirm that the incidence is (1) very, very low and (2) disproportionately occurs in younger women.

 

It has taken a while to determine if the occurrence of this  rare clotting disorder was greater than average in people who got these vaccines precisely because the incidence was so low among both vaccinated and unvaccinated people.  However enough evidence has amassed at this point that it seems clear there is an increased incidence, though still a very low one; I don't know any public health professional who doubts that.  It also  seems clear that the increased incidence is disporoportionately in younger people and especially women, though we do not have the necessary age and sex disaggregated data on incidence in non-immunized people to quantify it.  There have only been a few studies on this condition prior to this and they did not capture enough cases to be able to compute rates by gender and age group.

 

It is clear that on an overall population level the very small risk is less than the risk of being unvaccinated. So if an across the board decision has to be made for everyone, it makes sense to use these vaccines. However, in countries where it is feasible to offer alternative vaccines not using the adenoviral platform to younger people, it makes sense to do that where possible.  The UK decision using age 40 makes sense to me, EU countries making it under 60 seem over the top and politically influenced.

 

All this has nothing at all to do with Sinovac, which is made from inactivated virus. There have been no blood clots identified linked to Sinovac or other similar vaccines. The Thai public on the whole is very unclear about this and does not seem to understand  the difference between one type of vaccine and another hence many receiving Sinovac think it is linked to blood clots and thsi may explain the groups of young women reporting symptoms for which no cause can be identified and which then spontraneously disappear.

 

It was clear to me right at the start that the reports from Rayong and now this one were almost surely not genuine and rather reflected social media-fueled mass hysteria. When rare vaccine side effects occur, they do not occur in a whole groups of people immunized together and then not at all in elsewhere. They will occur in isolated cases here and there, which is exactly what happened with AZ and J&J.  Even if the problem was batch specific, it should occur evenly among all peopel immunized with the same batch, which is not what happened here.

 

The pattern we are seeing in Thailand does not look like genuine rare adverse effects, especially since not being reported elsewhere with the same vaccine.  Rather it seems to be an "infectious" process due to auto-suggestion and spread on social media and through person to person rumor mongering.

 

There is are also  individual case reports in Facebook of things that happened to just one person and are almost certainly unrelated to the vaccine, i.g. one circulating of what appears to be either ringworm or psoriasis. People do nto seem to understand that every single thing that occurs to a person in the days and weeks after vaccination are nto due to the vaccine and that there are clear scientific  methods for determining this through comparing the incidence in both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. 

 

 

 

 

Nevertheless,  WHO (don't forget,  ruled by China's man) refused emergency approval of Sinovac a couple of days ago.

The reason: the Chinese couldn't convince the WHO expert panel that the number of serious side effects is low (not only with the elderly, whith whom Thailand doesn't want to use it anyway).

BTW Indonesia yesterday published very good numbers of efficiency, over 90%, much better than the oft-quoted Brazilian 50%. Numbers are from real life, vaccinations of medical workers. 

You are in the convenient position not to have to decide whether to take a Sinovac vaccine or not.  Thai's generally cannot choose,  this alone causes distrust.

AZ, developed by scientists of a public university (not private, profit-seeking enterprise) of an open country,  is the most transparent of all vaccines. That's a big reason why it's side effects are well known. 

Sinovac, developed by a scandal-plagued company in a secretive (even on TVF one cannot discuss side effects of Sinovac) dictatorship known for shoddy products, is the opposite. No wonder many people don't trust them.

I don't know trustworthy reports of side effects of Sinovac.

But I don't know trustworthy reports of their safety either. 

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

Given that the Sinovac vaccinie has been the subject of numerous stuidies in countries outside of China and given a clean bill of health, I'd say the odds are pretty good that you are a conspiracy theorist.

Sinovac vaccine has not been given a clean bill of health:

Indonesia yesterday published very good numbers of efficiency, over 90%, much better than the oft-quoted Brazilian 50%. Numbers are from real life, vaccinations of medical workers. 

Nevertheless,  WHO (don't forget,  ruled by China's man) refused emergency approval of Sinovac a couple of days ago.

The reason: the Chinese couldn't convince the WHO expert panel that the number of serious side effects is low (not only with the elderly).

So, Sinovac seems to be effective, which is good. But the fears of the Thais,  many of them are scared of Sinovac, are not without reason. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/business/economy/covid-seychelles-sinopharm.html

You probably cannot end this pandemic with Sinopharm.

You can do it with Pfizer, as Israel did.

2 hours ago, Robin said:

Despite what some Thais try to claim,  there is no medical history of any human surviving Rabies

There is.

But it's more or less in single digits, worldwide.

So for all practical purposes,  you are right. 

6 minutes ago, wandasloan said:

sight of anyone dying of rabies

In Thailand and the US, patients dying from rabies are sedated,  in ICU.

Nothing to see.

22 hours ago, Kiujunn said:

AFAIK even PDA does it now.

I eas wrong,  they don't.  

Khlong Tan Hospital has been doing it for years. 

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

They have always treated foreigners. When did this change? Are you sure?

 

 

They told me today on the phone.  Repeatedly,  insisting very clearly that only Thais can come. 

Maybe it's not true and tomorrow another person says something different,  but it was no misunderstanding.

I was surprised,  too, because it was news to me as well

8 hours ago, vadid said:

I have just received my new passport. My Non Immigrant B extension runs out on 14 July. So I will try to get my transfers and extension done in one hit at Chaengwattana. Now could someone with experience of getting a transfer done at CW tell me:

 

1) Are transfers done at same L section  where extensions are done?

2)If yes, is it possible to get the transfer with the same officer who does the extension or do I have to queue up twice?

3) Is there a booking system for transfers? I've had a look on the booking site and can't see one for transfers.

 

Thank you

1 yes

2 dunno, didn't do it together

3 no, must wait, 1-2 hours

24 minutes ago, Excel said:

So nothing to do with the point I raised, thought so ????

What was your point?

That Sheryl's explanation doesn't apply to field hospitals?

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I seen the problems first hand, at my GF her company they had 10 people who had covid (some serious too one in ICU). But only 1 was counted as he had the second test from the goverment to confirm. Basically they won't count a test unless a second test has been done by the government. Its a easy way to keep numbers low. 

This is not their policy. 

They do one PCR test. 

What kind of test was the first one?

2 minutes ago, Excel said:

Agreed but exactly what has that to do with the point I was making ?

It explains what Sheryl said

16 minutes ago, Excel said:

But that is also a generalisation as that does not hold true for Field hospitals does it ? Surely it would be more definitive to say that those seriously ill and/or requiring ICU facilities require special rooms etc etc ?

In a general hospital, where there are non-covid patients,  you need to set up separate, isolated wards,  often separate buildings,  for covid. 

Staff cannot easily switch between covid and non-covid sections.  

Ventilation systems should be physically separated.  

Ideally, the covid section consists of negative pressure rooms.

So you have covid beds and non- covid beds,  they are not easily interchangeable. 

I find it impossible to get decent information.

(Interested in Surin, coming from Bangkok)

Thais tell me all kinds of rumors.

Anybody knows a reliable source? 

On 4/30/2021 at 3:50 PM, Pla Simon said:

https://www.tatnews.org/2021/04/thailand-reinstates-14-day-quarantine-strengthens-covid-19-restrictions-nationwide/

 

Have a flick through this site - all the info you need, upto date, including a list of all provinces, and pertinent restrictions imposed - including travel.

Sorry, i cannot find anything there. 

Can you tell me how to click?

On 4/21/2021 at 2:06 PM, canopus1969 said:

Both are Red Zones so yes, home quarantine

Is  this a rule? 

Are there any rules? 

Can I find them anywhere? 

All I found was an article in the other newspaper referring to moicovid.com. I was not able to find anything on this website. 

I would like to travel to Surin, by train or by taxi, but cannot find out what the current Covid entry restrictions are.

I will be travelling from Bangkok and am worried that I might be required to be in state quarantine for 14 days. 

I was hoping that I could enter with no quarantine requirement (or with maybe just a test).

Is a test before traveling required or helpful? 

PS

PDA now works only half day.

They don't treat foreigners.