Filer

What you report may be all due to the increased attention being given now by health authorities in Thailand to Dengue Fever (difficult to treat, unless caught early or a mild case, no known cure or prophylactic, quite a few fatalities in Thailand this year). There is rising regional concern in SE Asia about this serious mosquito-borne disease.

Dengue fever is carried and transmitted by the Aedes mosquito, which is typically active in the morning, unlike malaria, which is transmitted by the Anopheles mosquito, most active in the evening.

As far as I know, there is no specific 'season' for mosquitoes. The thing that you have to remember is that they need water to breed in. They lay their eggs in standing water anywhere, even in quite small amounts, and the incubation cycle is only two weeks. So the rainy season in Thailand, which results in more pools of water lying around, would be a higher risk season. The pools of water can be anywhere - water trapped in some corner of your building structure or water lying in some shady part of the vegetation. The fumigation (assuming that it is against mosquitoes and the like) is essentially to kill mosquitoes on the wing, before they lay eggs or attack people, and not to destroy mosquito larvae in pools of water.

While most of us are aware of the risk of mosquito-borne malaria and take some precautions about it, many of us are still not aware of the risks of dengue fever, which is much more serious if you get it.

I hope that this helps.

I have just raised this point by email with the Thai Consul at Hull in UK, whose detailed Web pages (www.thaiconsul-UK.com) state explicitly that 12m 'retirement visas' qualify for duty free shipments (alongside those other 12m visa and work permits). I'll post the Consul's response here. I note that their Web site pages are dated January 2006, so it may well be that the latest official position in Bangkok as communicated by AGS (retirees do not qualify) is a recent change - meaning that Thailand does not really want retirees.

I've just seen the red foot-note in the Thai Customs English-language Web pages which appears specifically to exclude retirees from the duty-free concession for household effects, but I also see that this was picked up by Chicken Curry earlier in this thread.

This is directly counter to what is being communicated orally and in writing by Thai consulates in the UK (and to the experience of many posters to this thread, it seems).

I wonder whether the aim of the footnote, which reads

"Note : Nonresidents entering into the Kingdom with a non-immigrant visa "code O" who wish to retire in Thailand or accompany spouses of Thai residents are not qualified for (1)"

is simply to clarify that you get the concession only when you are approved for 12m stay and have the first 12m extension, and that you can't get it on your initial 90 day visa, even though that may be annotated for retirement purposes. This is a point which the Thai consulates make: you have to show the 12m non-immigrant visa to get the concession.

Is there a Thai-reading member of this forum who could check the Thai version of the Customs text for some of us who are worried that the underlying intent is now to exclude retirees? The English text is at:

http://www.customs.go.th/Customs-Eng/House...nuNme=HouseHold

I have a niggling worry that the red foot-note may be a recent amendment which heralds a plan to start taxing retirees more in order to offset other losses in Customs revenues.

On a more general level, after further absorbing all the good postings by other members on this thread, I think that the key points which stick in my mind are:

1. Use a good Bangkok-based shipper who understands the Thai Customs procedures. Don't risk an overseas shipper with an unknown local handling agent in Bangkok.

2. Have a reasonably detailed packing list of what you are sending, to make it easy for Customs to see that your goods are all within limits - and reduce the risk that they may want to assume otherwise or start opening up your packaging to check.

3. Let the receiving shipper in Bangkok do the Customs Clearance (you have to provide him with your passport etc). Don't attend to the clearance in person. This seems often to cause complications.

4. If you are a retiree, aim to clear you shipment in the 6 month window apparently allowed after you arrive in Thailand (although there seesm to be some flexibility here)..

I checked my Thailand bird books and have a pic of the bird that Sir Burr suggests (it's the only one that comes close to matching your description). I'll PM you a copy of the pic, which shows the white front (cannot post on forum for copyright reasons).

Mahan Air was this weekend banned by UK aviation authorities from flying into UK because of safety concerns. I just saw it reported in the Bangkok Post.

For many years GF has been my preferred way of travel between LON and BKK (best and most consistent value for money), but I haven't flown since February. My observations are from the viewpoint of business class.

On the Bahrain-London sector they normally use the refurbished 340-300s, with flat 'skybeds' in business class, but sometimes the newer A330s, also with sky beds in business class.

On the Bahrain-Bangkok sector they normally use the slightly longer A340-343 which doesn't yet have the flat beds in business class and which is probably the un-refurbished one that you have in mind (although I did once fly in a 330 with flat beds from Bangkok). I know that the original plan was to upgrade all these planes too, but this may now be on hold.

If you are in Bangkok you might want to walk in to the Gulf Air office, which is on ground floor of the Maneeya Building opposite the Intercontinental (ex-President Hotel) on Ploenchit Rd. They are quite helpful there. Or call them 02 254 7931-4 (usually helpful on phone).

Hope this helps. Let me know if you get any more definite news.

The 'official' position is made quite clear on various Web sites including Thai consulates in UK and the Thai Customs Department's own Web site. If you have a valid one-year work permit or a one-year extension of non-immigrant O visa for retirement purposes (retirement visa), you can bring in used personal and household effects without paying customs duty.

Operationally, some rules are applied: the shipment should arrive after you do; you need to have the WP or the 12 m 'retirement visa' in your passport before you do the clearance (ie you shouldn't do the clearance while these are still pending); you are only eligible for the duty-free concession in a six-month 'window' after your original arrival. In addition there are some limitations on the number of domestic appliances of each type that you can bring in duty-free (one refrigerator would be OK, two might not be), private motor cars are not part of this deal and are a very complex subject of their own, some electrical appliances (such as fax machines) might be considered office equipment rether than household effects and thus be judged dutiable, and high-value items, such as antiques or works of art, might not be accepted as household affects and might thus be dutiable.

Some retirees fail to meet all of these requirements and naturally get charged legitimate duty. Those who do meet all the requirements do generally seem to succeed in getting the duty-free concession applied to their household effects. It seems that a couple of secrets here are: (i) use an experienced shipper in Bangkok to handle the contact with customs (ie have your shipment coordinated from the Bangkok end; do not use an overseas shipper and so have to depend on whoever happens to be his local agent in Bangkok); (ii) provide a detailed inventory of what is in every box in your shipment - don't generalise and don't leave it to customs to guess.

Having said all that, even if your whole shipment still qualifies for duty-free admission, your shipper will almost certainly have to pay a significant administrative or processing fee to customs on your behalf to complete the clearance. This seems to be a well-established practice with Thai customs, as indeed it is in many other countries. So don't get too upset about it - it's one of the things that you accept if you want to come and live here.

I'm planning to pass through this very process myself in the next few months as I finally relocate for good to LOS on retirement. I will be able to fill about half a 20 ft container and will meet all the theoretical requirements for duty-free. I've planned my shipment (from UK) through AGS Four Winds in Bangkok who seem to be well recommended. I'll trust my Bangkok shipper to minimise what I have to pay at customs, but I know there'll be something to pay. I'll be happy to post the result here when it happens.

Of course, CBRE would say all that, wouldn't they - in order to promote their high-end business in Thailand. It's a pity that Bangkok Post just publishes press releases like this without any independent comment.

On the numbers, since there is no retirement visa as such in Thailand, just an annual extension of permission to stay, I wonder what the 12,092 number refers to. Is this the total of all annual renewals in Jan-Jul 2006 (strange period to report on!), or just the first time 12m extensions in that period? If it's first time 12m extensions (ie new retirees), the number sounds on the high side. BP should have queried these numbers.

Malaysia's MM2M programme has been a relative failure among westerners so far principally because Malaysia simply hasn't promoted it adequately in western countries. If they had spent half the money promoting this that they spent on promoting Langkawi, their figures would have been much better.

Perpetual visitor since 1978. Making it permanent (retirement) this year to Phuket.

I'm sure that I've seen an Air Asia booth selling tickets inside the Tesco-Lotus supermarket in Phuket. If so, they may well exist in other Tesco-Lotus stores.

Another usefull web site is the rain radar at Phuket Airport

http://www2.tmd.go.th/radar/phuketLoop.html

Watching the rain radar show this last night's rain around Phuket was quite dramatic.

Thanks, both of you, for two great sites. It would be good if members could post any other interesting Phuket Web cam or similar sites here too.

I didn't realise that the view from the headland at that end of Karon was so good. My wife and I want to stay somewhere around there for a couple of weeks in Sep when we come over for good from UK to retire and while we're finalising a long-term rental house in the south of the island. We'll take a look at the place that has the cam.

Good news for Europe! I hope that this trickles down to Thailand too.

Let's hope also that the authorities in Europe follow on and address the similar dishonesty displayed by major hotels and hotel chains when they quote room rates while concealing the compulsory 'service charge' and government and local taxes, which only emerge in the small print when you actually book. Thailand's quite bad on this too in the big hotels.

For me too Bangkok and Thailand was my first experience of Asia.. This was 29 years ago, on a vacation trip when I was working in the Middle East. I think that my wife (farang) and I fell in love with the place on that first trip. Since then we've spent several weeks in Thailand every year and, although we've travelled a lot around all the rest of SE Asia, it became clear to us very early on that this would be the only place we would retire to. Careers and business have forced us to remain just visitors for these last 29 years, but this year we're retiring and finally making the permanent move to Thailand.

I've had all my clothes made in Bangkok for the last 30 years - suits, black tie suits, jackets, trouser, shirts etc. My wife also has trousers and overcoats made there. Our tailor for the past 10-12 years has been Laxmi Collection, run by a Thai of Indian origin, who used to manage one of the tailor shops (Royal Mantique) in the Royal Orchid Sheraton, but subsequentlty went into business on his own account, with a shop now in Silom Village in Silom Road. He's taken a lot of his customers from the hotel with him. He's become a friend now and always turns out an excellent product at reasonable prices. He won't rip you off. However, he's really not into the 2-3 day turnaround business. You ideally need 4-5 days minimum to get the stuff made with him. He's on the right in Silom Village, close to the big seafood restaurant in the middle. He's as good as you can get these days in Bangkok in terms of price/quality/service.

Contact details are:

Mr Amon Gulati

Laxmi Collection

Silom Village Trade Centre

286, Silom Road

Bangkok 10500, Thailand.

Tel - (66) 2 2374429 , Mobile (66) 81 4967730 or 81 8357142

[email protected]

Recent prices from him have been

suit with two trousers 18,300

jacket (wool) 12-15,000

trousers wool 2,500 - 4,000

trousers cotton 1,800

overcoat (cashmere - ladies) 15,000

You could talk to AGS Four Winds, an international group with an operation in Bangkok (www.agsfourwinds.com), which has been recommended by several people on this forum. The man to contact in Bangkok is

Paul Wilkinson

General Manager Eastern Seaboard

AGS Four Winds Thailand

Tel: +66 (0)81 903 9477

Fax: +66 (0)2 712 4015

[email protected]

I have recently seen adverts for a small (total 30 units) upmarket development in Phuket, on the road from Kathu down into Patong, which has a mix of 2-storey townhouses and apartments and which seems to be doing exactly what you describe. They say that, because it's all set up as a condominium, a foreigner can legally buy and own the freehold of one of the semi-detached townhouses. See their Web site (www.thecrestphuket.com) and in particular go to the 'downloads' and look at FAQs.

The offshore rate is a rate presumably more reflective of the true value of the Baht vs. the Dollar as a result of trading offshore.

Money that comes into Thailand and converted by banks in Thailand use the "onshore rate" which is affected by the Bank of Thailand efforts to "stabilize" money flows and their periodic intervention in the market.

Onshore rate is usually 3 baht weaker against the dollar and that is why most instruct the wiring institution to wire dollars rather than baht, otherwise the offshore rate prevails vs. the onshore rate which occurs when the dollars get here and are converted.

ProTHaiExpat has summarised it well. Thanks for reducing it to essentials. However, I remain curious about one thing. It seems to me that earlier in the year the banking system in London was clearly working on the 'offshore' rates, some 5-7% less advantageous than the 'onshore' rate, if you were wanting to buy Baht. Now, however, London seem to be fairly closely aligned with the 'onshore' rate, with middle commercial rates on 29 May of 68.63 for Pounds and 34.63 for Dollars (compared to 65.00 and 32.80 from a typical international currency trader, which looks correctly like the 'offshore' rate). Is it possible for London to be working now on the 'onshore 'rates?

I haven't heard of any news on the governments new land ownership laws passing ie buying land using a Thai company with Thai buisness partners. Does anyone know the lastest info.

I was wondering the same thing. Can't find any recent threads about the issue on this site. I imagine the truth is that nobody really knows. The foreign land ownership thing is now so closely bound up with all the other post-coup foreign business ownership issues that it's hard to get some focus on the matter. Yes, everything does seem to have gone strangely quiet (at least in public) recently. It would be nice to hope that some of the proposed changes will ultimately be quietly dropped and that the new Finance minister will help steer things in a more pragmatic direction.

Great story, George. The best April 1st story I've seen for years. It touched a number of nerves in many of us and I guess that's why it was so plausible until the moment of truth dawned for each of us.

London over-the-counter rates

Out of curiosity (and knowing that I would be in for a shock), I yesterday (31 Jan) checked the over-the-counter exchange rate for Pound to Thai Baht in the main branch of HSBC in London. They were offering rates of sell 57.8 and buy 83.0, which implies a middle rate of 70.4 and a "spread" of 36% around the middle rate - triple their normal spread of around 12%. Even allowing for the fact that it's personal service (rather than internet banking) and the fact that HSBC has contracted-out all its over-the counter exchange business to a third party company, the rates are still shocking and demonstrate how the UK high street banks rip off their unwary customers at any opportunity. Incidentally, the middle commercial market rate seems to have settled down around 68.1 at the end of the day's trading.

As the originator of this thread I'd like to thank all those who contributed their experience.

Here's where I have ended up. I'm not going to pursue an account with HSBC in Bangkok. My wife and I will be retirees in Phuket from this summer and our needs will be routine: 800k deposit, local transactions, ATM card, regular transfers in from abroad etc. HSBC in Bangkok respresents an offering and service level (and cost level) that would be excessive for us.

Although I currently have an HSBC account in the UK (which could have given us an intro to HSBC Bangkok), I'll be closing this when we leave since we'll no longer have any financial interests in UK and our few small UK pensions will be paid directly to our financial base (somewhere else outside UK and outside Thailand). So a direct HSBC-to-HSBC link wouldn't come into the question.

Based on the info placed in this and in some other threads, I'm inclined to look at SCB in Phuket for all our financial needs in Thailand. They seem generally to have a good reputation among retail customers all over Thailand, and an excellent reputation in the corporate world, based on various surveys which I've seen from time to time in the financial media (Asia Money, Institutional Investor etc). They also have a branch which we've used many times at Central Festival in Phuket, where my wife likes to shop!

Thanks again to all.

I have shipped my house hold effects from Tenerife, UK and some boxes from Italy and I used a company called AGSfourwinds. Office is in BKK but the manager for Pattaya is as follows paul wilkinson <[email protected]>, if you mailhim Imsure he will give you the Managers name for Phuket.

Door to Door service very good service.

Thanks for this tip. I had overlooked this group, which seems good in the Asia Pacific area. When I worked in the oil industry in Saudi Arabia my company used this group exclusively for all its world-wide employee effects removals. They moved me safely from Saudi Arabia back to UK. I'll follow your suggestion and hope to look at the Phuket end of their business when I'm over again next month.

Thanks again, Peterpan. I have spoken by phone with the person you mentioned at AGSFourWinds and he was easily able to explain to me and put in context all the points which have come up in this thread. For me the two most interesting things were (i) this firm, similar to what another poster mentioned about Accord Pilot Logistics, will coordinate your inward move from the Thai end, be in much better control of the potential problems on arrival, and invoice you for everything at the Thai end (including the UK packing and collection), (ii) - more interesting - they are very happy to use, and in fact recommend, "lift vans", which are standard vertical wooden crates holding 6 m3 and which fit into a standard shipping container and allow you to have a partial container load while still having your goods totally segregated. The two UK removals companies which I talked originally (Excess Baggage and Anglo Pacific) were not at all warm on this.

I may be missing something here, buy why do so many people wire in money in foreign currency (thus potentially exposing themselves to the capital control checks)? Apart from the exchange rates into ThB given in some countries, and apart from the requirement for condo purchase money to be documented in foreign currency, why not just simply transfer ThB in? Is there some other consideration? I'm curious.

I had noticed this too. The British Embassy Web site is conspicuously silent about local consular support in Phuket - but I imagine that there's some complex reason for this. Maybe someone should ask the Embassy to "come clean" over this.