obsession

I was one of the guys who complained about it on another forum. I got cheek off one of the staff as another BM had. In his case she phoned in the "heavies". I was more lucky and just got her cheek. The worst thing was that the owners "friends", joined the forum and tried to defend the behaviour. I could have accepted them saying bthat employee was a dud and they dismissed her, but sticking up for her was admitting that poor service is ok with them. I wont go back, and will advice people against it.

Why do so many people find it necessary to bash the developers and the real estate agents quite so often???? If it were not for the Agents and Developers.... We would all still be living in CAVES!!!!

Its to stop others making a "misguided" investment. imho, thats more honourable than trumpeting a "dodgy" market or method of purchase ( in the case of houses). And imho, agents use various boardnames to talk up the market.

"Saying someone cant afford a thai property is laughable and shws you up as a fool."

Yeah right, That's why in one of your previous threads you wanted to stay at the Miama Hotel or anywhere similar for under 20,000bht in central BKK

By your own words it's doubtful you could afford a descent property here

I pay 20k a month in Pattaya and would like a similar deal in Bkk.

What a saddo going back and searching someones posts Check my name on other forums and you will see that I own several properties outright in the uk. Anyone can afford property in los. Its dumb to say otherwise. You buy a cheap property in a third world country and misread other peoples concerns/dislikes about property ownership in los as "they cant afford it". I think property threads are most likely read by people who are considering buying. Not by people who arent thinking of buying.

Some condos in Spain are selling at half the price they were bought for and Bulgaria and Romania down 30%+. And thats with all the benefits Romania is about to receive from the eu. And if a full EU member like Spain can bulldoze peoples properties, they can surely do it in Thailand where you dont have any rights and have bought with a "dodgy" company. imho

that's a load of bull. "Spain" did not bulldoze any properties. stupid ignorant people and greedy investors bulldozed their properties by not being able to pay the mortgages and developers overestimated demand. the same goes for the U.S., Ireland and several other countries. UK has just started.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jan/11/spain.world

http://www.overseaspropertymall.com/buying...s-to-nightmare/

Heres the entire google page of them

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=b...mp;aq=f&oq=

If an EU country can bulldoze EU citizens properties, then Im sure Thailand would have no qualms about "relieving" foreigners of their thai houses bought by means used to cicumvent the law.

At a wild guess there would be a billion homes worldwide, an You pick one??? to prove your very powerful point here. And you had to use the world wide web to find it and this 1 example is in Spain of all places and supposed to fill us all with fear? Why not just admit your not in the market for property due to lack of funds, certainly your post is very transparent. What is it with certain TV posters?

I am not trying to fill anyone with fear, but would advise people who havent already bought a house, not to. Anyway, you have made an ass of yourself. I am a landlord with several uk properties owned outright and spend 3 or 4 months a year in los. Saying someone cant afford a thai property is laughable and shws you up as a fool. I pulled out of a deal to buy a condo in los when they introduced witholding 30% capital. They didnt exclude condos at first.

Some condos in Spain are selling at half the price they were bought for and Bulgaria and Romania down 30%+. And thats with all the benefits Romania is about to receive from the eu. And if a full EU member like Spain can bulldoze peoples properties, they can surely do it in Thailand where you dont have any rights and have bought with a "dodgy" company. imho

that's a load of bull. "Spain" did not bulldoze any properties. stupid ignorant people and greedy investors bulldozed their properties by not being able to pay the mortgages and developers overestimated demand. the same goes for the U.S., Ireland and several other countries. UK has just started.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jan/11/spain.world

http://www.overseaspropertymall.com/buying...s-to-nightmare/

Heres the entire google page of them

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=b...mp;aq=f&oq=

If an EU country can bulldoze EU citizens properties, then Im sure Thailand would have no qualms about "relieving" foreigners of their thai houses bought by means used to cicumvent the law.

They sell those safes in carrefour in Pattaya. I always put my laptop away in my suitcase and all leads/evidence of a laptop when I go out. I stay in a hotel, so I hide it from the cleaners. The hotel I stay at has 24hr security and cameras. I left the laptop in the room when I went to stay in chiang mai for 10 days and cambo for a week. I bought a holdall to take with me and left the laptop in the laptop bag and in the suitcase that has a combination lock. It was cheaper to pay by the month than leave the hotel and I didnt plan on staying so long in cm.

Think I have a bit more faith in the Thai people than you give them credit for. If they did as you suggest could happen, do you not think this would not cause a few problems? Both Internationally and within Thailand….. I'm pretty sure that even in the less well off/educated areas they still value the assistance foreigners have been to their communities. Within the business community they for sure value foreign investment etc… Remember using your scenario, 1,000's of foreigners would be in jail; they would have lost their assets and businesses. Who would come to Thailand for holiday, retirement, business etc knowing what had taken place to all foreigners just for being a director within a Thai registered nominee company, holding property as an asset. Do you not think this would affect the Thai economy in an extreme way?

With the best will in the world I don't think even you can say the Thais would want to be another Zimbabwe. For sure I don't think this would be a "vote" winner for any Thai. Please explain why you think it would?

All my instincts tell me that you are almost certainly correct.

But nothing is for sure in what is still a third world country, that regularly has coups, tears up its constitutions,rewrites the laws to suit those in power, has been at the brink of political conflict (and possible violence) for years, and is run by a bunch of power hungry, totally corrupt (moral and financial) politicians, who, at the first sign of trouble will blame all of Thailnd's ills on "evil foreigners", and stir up the nationalistic sentiments amongst the uneducated classes.

Even my own wife - who believe me is a pretty smart cookie and who has travelled abroad extensively and runs her own business, believes that no farang should be allowed to own one inch of Thai soil.

Fours ago I built an extensive property in East Pattaya. No sooner was it built than all this nominee stuff emerged. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if I had known about all this in advance, I would never have built the house.

We are talking here of an investment for most farangs of at least 50,000 pounds upwards, for some over 200,000. For many this will be the only investment they will be able to make in a retirement home. So given the current situation, most prudent buyers would certainly think twice before making an investment that may turn out to be technically illegal.

For me, however small the chances are of losing my property, I didn't want to spend the rest of my retirement worrying about it, so I got rid of my company and transferred the house to my wife with a usufruct giving me lifetime residency. Even this is not foolproof, but I'd rather my wife have it than the government take it away from me or put me in jail or deport me as an undesirable.

Excellent post. Its beyond me why anyone would take a chance with their retirement funds.

Even if they allowed full legal ownership, the market will still probably see a downturn, same as Spain, Bulgaria, Romania and other holiday/retirement destinations, not to mention UK, USA. Developers have built too many and there was a "property ownership craze". Some condos in Spain are selling at half the price they were bought for and Bulgaria and Romania down 30%+. And thats with all the benefits Romania is about to receive from the eu. And if a full EU member like Spain can bulldoze peoples properties, they can surely do it in Thailand where you dont have any rights and have bought with a "dodgy" company. imho

Does anyone think the girls are any different from an agency than a bar or gogo? I know of a girl from a soi LK Metro bar in Pattaya who left and appeared on an escort website a few months later at 12,000bht. 12 times the previous price. Same girl , different marketing.

What about HGH? Is that classed as a steroid? I heard that its a good anti ageing thing to take and that it takes years off you and gives you more energy. I wouldnt want to look like a steroid guy, but would think about anti ageing once Im over 50 (45 now) as I know my energy levels arent what they were in my 20s.

And argueing about who gets the best girls in the easiest place in the world to get laid is bizarre. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So we all think we have the hottest women.

Anyone recommend good online storage. I want to back up everything online to go travelling. Several come up on a google search, but Im not sure who is reliable. Thanks.

what utter nonsense....if there is an oversupply, then the price should decrease under the law of supply and demand...that is often not the case here...with supply often just lying dormant instead of selling at a decreased price....that is not a perfect equilibrium....

More like supply and no demand, look at real estate ads in Bangkok post and websites, properties unsold for 6 months or longer and they increase selling price, true market forces would say that if a property cannot sell at a certain price, after a period of time it means price is too high and needs to be dropped down, in Bangkok it goes up, supply and demand does not apply here

Do you two even read what you post? Have you ever read an economic book and attempted to understand the difference between short term and long term commodities?

Condos are not like bananas that have a life span of five days or so. With bananas the price must be adjusted instantly in order not to lose your entire investment.

The correlation of prices of condos in regards to the supply and the demand of condos does not adjust instantly, but incrementally over a period of time. What often happens is a few people in a building will have a need for cash after holding a unit for a period of time, usually at least a year or so. At which time they will sell at a lower rate to receive an influx of cash. When this happens a new market value has been established for that particular building for the short term.

But there are also long term investors in that building which have plenty of cash and are able to hold out until the demand for units increases again. In other words if they were to put their money in the bank at 5% interest they would only need to wait 5 years to have the essentially the same return as they would if they sold their condo for 25% more than they paid for it.

Another major point you are missing is the vast majority of the people purchasing units are not looking at them principally as an investment, but as a place to live and raise a family. And if they are fortunate enough to live there long enough their condo will increase in value.

There is a reason it is called "The Law of Supply and Demand." Because after hundreds of years of study by individuals much smarter than you or I they have been able to determine a direct correlation to prices one will pay for an item as it relates to the demand for that item and the availability of that item in the market.

If you google "supply and demand" you will find it to be a very complicated formula with many variables ,me being a simple Noodle vendor might not comprehend such complicated equations, But i do know that in the bangkok market the demand is far less than the supply , put it any way you want and lets include secondhand properites the supply far outstrips any real demand,

i have the same problem in my soi with my noodles , but when i offer them at half price all of a sudden they sell out , so that is where the demand must be ,

as for your example of holding on to a unit for a further 5 years for the market to catch up , well great theory , called the "pigs fly theory "

Good post and well spotted that Bilaa was recommending buying in Jomtien . What a donkey. Hopefully he will be too busy playing golf and whoring with his humungous profits to post any more.

Thanks for all the replies, its saved me a trip to Bkk to check it out. I have stayed at some of the ones suggested but didnt find them good value for a long stay. The Federal or soi 11 place probably sound the best but after 3 months in a hotel in Pattaya I was trying to keep the cost down to under 20,000 a month. Will maybe cut the month down to a fortnight and try those. Thanks again.

"Talking about "oversupply"... TC has updated the chart (here) about "condos registrations Bangkok and Provinces")."

The chart simply indicates the number of condos that were put on the market, and completely ignores the number of units that have been sold. I would have expected no less from a website calling itself "Thai Crisis".

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Thats because its about the Thai property crisis that seems obvious to most of us but obviously not to some. Its so apparant, that theres a website about it. .

For anyone looking at Thai property, it is utterly obvious that there are thousands of unsold units, and yet they keep building.

I leave my home empty, but realise its only insured for the first 3 months of my 5 months away. Its insured if it burns down, but not for vandalism or burst pipes. Its mortgage free but I wouldnt rent it out as I rent out others and its a lot of hassle and not in your own home. I try to sell a house/apartment every year for profit. The money goes far in asia.

I'm sure you're confident that your condo has doubled in value over the past few years, but saying the words and realising the cash gains in an actual sale are - i'm sure you'll agree - poles apart.

As a TG who owns three condos said to me, " condos easy to buy, difficult to sell". And in Pattaya"s case, difficult to rent out in a saturated rental market.

I found this reasonable hotel with wifi at nana, but someone toldme its too sleazy. He does usually stay in very good places, so Im hoping his view is off. Anyone stayed in it?

Seems to be more nicknames in PP than a poker tournament PM me contact details if you do set it up, just in case I get in to any legal difficulties whenever Im there.

I thought St johns wort caused sensitivity to sunlight. Obviously not good in los.

Why don't you call or email the Consulate and ask them? That would be the best source.

And post their reply for us please. Im applying for one in the next few weeks. Not sure what one to get.

I owned and started 3 businesses in USA for 15 years. I moved to Thailand a year and half ago and live off my investments. I have several friends in business here and another that is looking to start a restaurant. So, I have heard many things first hand about starting and running a farang owned business and participated in some of the research.

One of my successful friends is a condo salesman, with a very good referral base he makes over 70,000 US a year, he has a niche market mainly selling to successful gay men.

I have another friend that owns 4 hotels, 3 in Pattaya, and a resort in Koh Chang (he is friends with the guy that owns Royal Garden Mall, so he has very good connections and was a multimillionaire before he came here).

Other business's that seem to be doing well:

http://www.ajarn.com/

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/

I don't know much about the 2 above dot com's, if anyone else has input on what their profits might be, I don’t really know. I really like the dot com biz, my background is media and sales related. I enjoy building websites and photography as a hobby. I would be interested in doing something in this area if I was to do a business again.

http://timeoutgelato.com/

I think this timeout gelato guy is doing very well. I saw their booth at the franchise show last year and they have 3 locations here in Pattaya, plus I think there are in Koh Samui now.

My favorite business is the Thai mobile Kabob guy here in Pattaya, when I get the munchies, my girlfriend calls him and I get a delicious kabob delivered to my room for 60 baht (closest thing to a Taco Bell burrito supreme in Thailand).

Just a few ideas...

Id like to visit the franchise show. Where is it held and advertised,thanks.

Thats a good profit the condo salesman makes. Any more details on that?

Have you ever studied any business subjects e.g. economics, entreprenuership, basic accounting, finance, retail management? You might do well to read a few books on this; otherwise I suspect you will lose your shirt.

IMHO you don't even have to be that good to run a succesful business here; it isn't hard. But.... do some planning first; flying by the seat of pants approach is a sure recipe for failure.

No I havent seriously studied those subjects in an educational course. I dont even believe entreprenuership can be learned and I dont see the point in reading a "Basic Thai Accounting For Retired Farang" book or the finance, retail management or economic equivalents. I have been in business since leaving school 28 years ago (yikes).I have never had a "real job". Since I am about to retire, I must have been ok at business without those unneccesary educational qualifications usually written by professors etc, who have never owned or managed a business. You are right about a seat of the pants/ lack of planning approach being a recipe for failure. I would recommend anyone going in to business in a foreign country to start with a small established business. Especially if theyve never had a business before. If they the small business successfully, they could then try a bigger business or startup venture. Personally, a small business will do me in Thailand, with all its visa/ ownership issues etc. You might have to walk away from it.

I would also look at self-storage as a business, especially in Bangkok and Pattaya. Just some ideas........but, again, if you want to make money, I would avoid Thailand and start something in Cambodia, Philippines, or Vietnam--especially Vietnam.

I agree many farang are looking for storage and a drive through carwash is something they dont seem to have. Possibly have to pitch it too expensive for thais after paying for the water. I think Bendix was maybe right about the ice business though. You woudnt want to wake up with a buffalos head in your bed

I think its maybe a good idea for someone who hasnt lived there long to buy an established proven business. Earning from day one and no start up hassles in a difficult language and different legal system.. And you know it works.

I disagree when people say about being innovative. Here in the uk you get 6 fast food outlets within a few hundred yards of each other. Usually half of them are kebab shops. Not an innovative idea or even an new location. Thats why every shopping centre in the uk has the same shops. Best to copy what works. Richard Branson has become one of the richest men in the world copying other businesses. He started with a student magazine, to mail order record store to record company to airline etc.

A post from sunbelt asia. 3 million a month net.

For some, owning a business has a high degree of risk. For others, they have found that owning a business has been very profitable. There is no guarantee you will lose just like you will find there is no guarantee you will win. This goes for every business in every country.

Common misconception all bars lose money in Thailand. I know four bars that make over three million net a month (not gross sales either) When it’s good it can be really good. On the other hand, I’ve seen people lose money in the bar business. Most of the times it was a small beer bar which was just a hobby for the owner.

I would recommend coming over to Thailand and investigate investment opportunities. Be sure only to choose a business you have passion for. A laundry for most people will be zero passion.

If you insist on a laundry, you will need to find a genuine Thai investor. Have a good lawyer draft a partnership agreement spelling out any potential issues such as hours expected to work by the partners, bank account, distribution of any dividends, etc.

If you go into manufacturing or export, you can own the business 100% as a foreigner.

You should get a visa in your home country before coming to Thailand. If you arrive in Thailand with a tourist visa, it will be very hard to change this to a non immigrant visa. You can own shares in a company but if you will be working you will need a non immigrant visa in order to get the work permit.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

How should I know? I have absolutely no idea of the OP's skills, experience, business aptitude, personality, likes and dislikes etc etc. Surely they need to be taken into account before identifying what he can do.

All I see in this thread (and some others he has featured in) is an overwhelming desire to be in Thailand at all costs, for whatever personal reasons he may have. My personal experience of that dominant drive is that it's dangerous and common sense gets thrown out of the window, but that's another thread entirely.

If I had the time, business savvy and creativity to spot sexy little niche areas, I certainly wouldnt share them here. I'd work out ways to exploit them myself.

I have rental apartments in the uk and am only looking for a business in los to keep myself busy and the profit would be spent on rent of better quality of accomodationt to live in.I am not considering this out of desperation, but thanks for your concern. Im touched. Maybe its because Im a landlord that I hate paying rent, and see it as dead money. However I wouldnt risk buying in los. I would therefore like los to pay for itself rather than spend my hard earned on it. I am also thinking of the future and school fees etc as they will no doubt keep getting more expensive.

Disclaimer - I have no intention of buying a bar. But, contrary to what you think, some of them make very good money. Im sure it was sunbelt asia who said on a previous thread that some made over a million baht a month. I will search for the thread. And I know someone who makes 200,000 a month from a bar with some guest rooms. They are the exceptions though. 90% of them probably lose money and are subsidized by the owners savings.