obsession

There is so much obfuscation generated by vested interests that is often very difficult to know exactly what is going on in the housing market and the Thai economy in general.

Hardly a day goes by when you don 't read in the Pattaya or National business press about pronouncements from people involved and / or connected with the property business to the effect that apart from a few minor glitches, that it's business as normal, and houses and condos are selling like hot cakes.

In a similar way, anyone and everyone connected with the travel and tour business will assure you that there is no drop in tourist numbers and farangs are continuing to flock to Thailand's shores.

Well, it would not be in their interests to say anything different, would it?

To show the other side of the coin, here an extract of a post made yesterday in the general forum:

Without being an expert on Thai tourism I will tell you anyway, that yesterday I spoke with 2 owners of real estate companies here in Pattaya, and they told me that things have ground to an almost dead stop over the last many months, they simply can not sell houses, so according to them it is not only low income people that choose to leave( if that is the case?), but also people with money to spend that now choose not to spend them here in Thailand.

I believe that things like this have a tendency to spiral out of control, dictatorship, low growth rate, stop from outside investors in the big business, bad press in the west, insurgency in the south, tsunami the list is long and every bit of it is being vigorously reported at least in the western country I come from, and I know my own people well enough to know that these things will instantly put a lot of people of coming here.

A subject like this is also very sensitive for a lot of people, and I clearly sense this in some of the posts, to some people with investments in this country, be it property or something else, the mere mentioning of that things might go sour for a while is almost a crime, and they react quite strongly, but I fear they are not being objective. on my estate a house was just sold with a 50% loss 2,5 mill. bath, and there are on a 2 year old estate already several houses for sale and several for rent out off only 36 houses all in all, and you have to believe when I tell you that it is a very nice estate well placed and well kept.

Please don't slaughter me, but in my purely personal opinion, Thailand is rapidly heading for a low spell that will put Thailand several years back compared to the economic growth in the surrounding nations.

To me, it seems inconceivable that it's 'business as usual' in the property business after all the visa crack downs, land crack downs and a general anti - farang sentiment that has grown up over the past few months. It must be having an effect on property sales, despite the best efforts of sharp talking agents.

I would like to read that thread. What was the title , thanks.

Property in Pattaya was overprised anyway.It was getting ridiculous. Jomtien has so much empty land, why would anyone invest and pay top dollar. A new building adds hundreds of units onto the market. How can your property appreciate in the long term. They have enough land to keep building for years to come adding thousands of units in a country its getting difficult to stay in. I can understand buying to retire in, but not buying to invest.

Why not just teach English ?

I know farangs who teach part time tutoring and pull in 20K/month

Full time teachers make more than twice that in good schools.

Not much risk either as there is large demand for white faces

to teach English here. Plenty of jobs.

Just a thought .....

That was my initial plan, Id even picked a course and it included a 1 year visa. But there were changes which meant you couldnt get a job without a work permit, and work permits arent issued to part timers. I think they also want you to have a degree now, which I havent got.

Obsession, Thailand is not a land of milk and honey !

If you want to have a good life here, then make your

fortune before you arrive on these barmly shores.

Why do you think all those foreign folks are banging on the

gates trying to get into your own country ?

Naka.

I agree with you. I dont think I would risk it if I had to rely on the thai business profits. I am in fact being overly cautious. I have an income from 4 properties ( ex local authority flats ) in scotland and the proceeds from selling my house. Thats why I just want a top up of 20,000bht. I have spent 6 of the last 16 months in los, and have a fair idea of the difficulties facing a foreign business owner. Thats why I wouldnt go for a bar and thought of a laundry or small guesthouse or even a second hand bookshop. One of my properties didnt get any rent last year from july to november ( bad tenant ) and also there are local authority refurbishments( roofs and roughcast) coming up in the next few years, so I would like to save towards them and have the safety net of a thai income without touching my savings ( house sale money).

I was meaning 20,000 net.

I think people are banging on the door of the uk because they have a false image of life in the uk. I believe many are very disappointed with the real uk. I have only spoken to 2 immigrants about this, and they were both disappointed with the violent slum they were housed in ( ibrox in glasgow, only a mile from my house, the cheeky blighters ). And they didnt know places were as cold as it is.

What about a website, should be pretty easy to draw 20k baht out on that, register it in the UK and you avoid the hassle of setting up a Thai company.

Internet earnings would be perfect, but not sure how to make money from a website.

Sunbelt Asia.

Thanks for rhe advice. Ok, laundry is out, I didnt know I would need a Thai partner. One of the Thais I know seems trustworthy but why take the risk. Next to internet earnings, exporting would be good but I couldnt find any opportunities in my recent four month stay. The opportunities are there, I just need to hook up with the right mentor.

Sure you wanna join the ranks of Farangs who lost a pot?

Only risking a small pot. No more than 1 million baht for a small guesrhouse or a laundry. I think its the bars that lose their shirt. Also. I have experience of running a business, but not in a foreign country 20,000 bht a month drawings would be enough. Surely I can manage to make that.

As the title says, I am going to go with the intention of buying a small business. Im not sure if you can own a business with a tourist visa or how I would change the visa from tourist to whatever. I am under 50 and single. Thanks

Oh dear. Now why would you seriously be bothering to own and run a business here in LOS?

I ask myself the same question You are completely right, it is like selling your soul to the thais, but if you had been back in scotland for two weeks like I have, then desperate measures are called for. I just need to earn a little to top up some rental income I get and buying a business seems the only way.I have also been looking at cambodia due to the difficulty in getting thai visas. At least you can actually work there and look further ahead than your next visa application.

As the title says, I am going to go with the intention of buying a small business. Im not sure if you can own a business with a tourist visa or how I would change the visa from tourist to whatever. I am under 50 and single. Thanks

Thanks for the answer.

I didnt have time to read all 9 pages, but my first thought is... who the f*** is the OP to start exposing people. Is he on some kind of crusade. Why stick your nose in someone elses situation, unless its to help. Maybe the beggar suffers from depression or something. I wouldnt beg, but dont critisize people who do, as you dont know their circumstances. What is so rightious about the OPs lifestyle. Live and let live.

Read the transcript, I didn't expose him, I filmed the guy and had a chat with him.

If he has been exposed because of this, then so be it

If he has exposed himself by saying some things that perhaps he shouldn't, then that's his business.

If you can find a part of the transcript where I have exposed him, please quote it.

You have exposed him on Thaivisa.com. How else did we all hear of him?

I admit he may well be " a waste of space". But who are you to decide? It takes a certain type of person to beg in the street, and usually they have mental health issues. If you could earn 100,000 baht a month begging, I guarantee most of us still wouldnt do it.

I didnt have time to read all 9 pages, but my first thought is... who the f*** is the OP to start exposing people. Is he on some kind of crusade. Why stick your nose in someone elses situation, unless its to help. Maybe the beggar suffers from depression or something. I wouldnt beg, but dont critisize people who do, as you dont know their circumstances. What is so rightious about the OPs lifestyle. Live and let live.

I went to see a condo in Bang Na, Bangkok. They have been trying to sell them for 8 years. They are "new" as in never lived in, but obviously not really new. They dropped it to under 900,000baht and threw in furniture and a tv. I think it speaks volumes about the property market. Its all hype and some people are falling for it. Theres hundreds if not a few thousand unsold unita all over Bkk.

An agent told me condos over 10 million arent selling at all.

Thank you for suggesting that I rent which is what I think we will do. After a few years in Thailand who knows maybe Malaysia next- somewhere like Langkawi? At least they have a well thought thru package and clearer rules for foreigners on property ownership and visas etc.

The place we saw was very nice indeed as are many places in phuket but while we were walking around the place we noticed a lot of bad design features and the spec was very low. The finishing was shoddy and fixtures were cheap and badly fitted. The water in the bathroom drained away rather than towards the drainage etc etc. We've come across this time and time again. We could see that we would have to put in more money and time to fix things before we could move in. I would never buy anything so substandard with such little protection anywhere else in the world for two hundred thousand pounds and can't understand why I like so many others would be inclined to do so here.

Is there something here in the air?

We bumped into a Western couple who were living in Singapore last week when we went to look at some villas here. They had come over for the day with their 3 small children to buy something in Phuket. The agent had lined up some places for them to see. They had arrived at 10am and it was 1pm and they had already been to 4 different places. They were going to leave to go back to Singapore that very evening. The poor woman looked absolutely harried and was running around keeping her kids who weren't the slightest bit interested under control and wasn't even looking at the placeproperly. They said they had to buy by the end of the day. His boss it seems had just bought something for US$ 2 million and said the time was ripe etc etc so they didn't want to lose out. We have met people who don't think twice about buying something off plan for 30 40 million baht. There are places we have been to see that are selling for 200 million baht and people have bought.

What is going on.

I just don't get it.

palmtree

I agree with you. People are paying crazy prices for poor condos/villas in poor locations with poor infrastructure. In the case of villas ,they arent even in their own name.

And you can never be sure that they will renew your visa. Its madness.

I cant understand why they are stopping people from getting unlimited 30 day exemptions unless they are trying to remove permanent tourists. So why would they issue tourist visas indefinately. I think after a year or so of tourist visas they will refuse you as you are obviously living in los and not a tourist. I am postponing buying a condo because of all this crap. And as someone else pointed out, £1000 every 15 months for a trip to the uk for a 1 year visa is expensive and a complete waste of a week.

I guess it must be true that AA only helps 5% of alcoholics quit, since no one is disputing the figure. Sounds a bit on the low side.

Thanks for the replies. I ended up booking an Air Asia flight for 3,900 baht return but it leaves at 7am which means leaving Patts at 4 or 5 ish. Bangkok air was over 9,000 baht, but had better flying times. Uploading the passport photo in an internet cafe sounds a like a chore, so I will probably get a visa on arrival.

I like the idea of going by land next time, how much does it cost all in? By the time I add a taxi fare to the airport and a bus for the later return journey, it will probably have cost 6,000 bht.

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Is that your company? If not why post? It is a sales pitch and doesnt neccesarily have any basis in fact. Every real estate business tells you the properties will appreciate in value. You wouldt buy real estate if you thought you would lose money on it.

I have to leave Thaialnd on the 7th January when the 1st stamp on my double entry tourist visa runs out. I have asked in several travel agents in Pattaya, but they want to just take me to the border and tell me to get a taxi. Could anyone give me any advise about the best way to do this. I was thinking of getting an evisa for cambo. And it is Phnom Penh I would like to visit. Thanks. I have left things really late as usual

Asia Property Report - December 20 - news

This means foreign purchasers of condominiums can bring funds into Thailand to purchase condominium property. According to a major local bank, foreign condominium purchasers should clearly state the project name and unit number when remitting funds.

Thanks Geppis72.

I had to fill out the uk banks swift form online and print it out. Its the only way they transfer funds. Theres no space for extra information like a condo address. I guess I am still not going ahead yet, but thanks for the info.

If you decide to go ahead:

1. print a copy and send it registered (with receipt of delivery) to the bank with additional info for which condo the money is.

2. send the same per email telling them the money is on its way.

3. You might ask your bank to write a letter what the money is for. (if you wish them to know, that is )

LaoPo

Thanks. I will do that when I go ahead with a purchase. I have pulled the plug on the one I was buying untill I see if prices change with this fiasco and the visa rule effect kicking in.

It says in the Bkk post today ,that property is exempt. A leading real estate company says many people will be holding off to see what happens to the baht.

Asia Property Report - December 20 - news

This means foreign purchasers of condominiums can bring funds into Thailand to purchase condominium property. According to a major local bank, foreign condominium purchasers should clearly state the project name and unit number when remitting funds.

Thanks Geppis72.

I had to fill out the uk banks swift form online and print it out. Its the only way they transfer funds. Theres no space for extra information like a condo address. I guess I am still not going ahead yet, but thanks for the info.

Thanks for the replies. I was hoping I had missed a press release or something, but it is now clear that even the banks dont know. It was a very inexpensive condo I was buying, but I dont want to risk tying up the extra 30% for a year interest free. I feel a bit guilty because the seller has cleared out the furniture for me, which will make it harder for them to sell or rent out. But it aint my fault.

I forgot to add that the property agent didnt put up much of an argument when I said that I was holding off transfering the money until the rules wre made clear. They initially said that they hadnt heard of it, but eventually admitted they had. So if they accept that property might be subject to the 30% witholding tax then I will hold off until I read otherwise.

expecially this paragraph:

"The rules would have limited international investors to using 70 percent of their funds to buy Thai stocks. The requirements stay in effect on other investments, including bonds and property, Pridiyathorn said."

Thanks Gaudente. Thats what I read too.

DrNaam. Could you please post where it says that property is exempt as I cant find it. It would be much appreciated.

Why does everyone think that people are panicking for just trying to clarify if 30% of their money is going to be held. Not panicking, just being sensible. Do you expect us to transfer possible short funds? Its easy to scoff when your not the one sending funds at this time.

Its a catch 22 for condo buyers. If you transfer less then 800,000 baht you wont get the necessary FET certificate. If you transfer more ,they might withold 30% of it. Ive got my swift form filled out and ready to post today, but wont do it until this matter is cleared. Between that and the anticipated empty rental condos vacated by the visa runners whose 90 days run out, it might be a good idea to hold off on condo purchases. IMHO

Thanks for the reply. Sorry I think I put it wrong,. On the visa it says "this visa must be utilised before 1st May 2007". When I came in to Thailand I got a stamp saying 7th January 2007. What do you think? Thanks again. Thai visas and the thai language are 2 things I just cant seem to get my head around.

I have a double entry tourist visa. My passport says 7 th January 2007 on the visa page. So can I leave on the 7th and go to Cambodia for 5 days or so and then get another 60 days when I re enter Thailand. Also, someone told me I will need a visa for Cambodia if I stay for more than 2 days. Is that true. Thanks.