huli

On 8/10/2017 at 7:23 PM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

For Huli and others there's probably a lot more I can say about the topic of 'bar etiquette' in general. 

 

Most prominently, keep in mind that bars are still Thailand and Thai culture and manners apply, in many ways even more so than in other places.  Things that gain you karma-brownie-points (to avoid the words 'respect' and 'appreciation') in general life in Thailand are very much the same in bars.

 

So let's hear it for "Thainess".. in no particular order:

 

* Generosity. This is most closely related to the lady drink topic, but keep in mind that there are other ways to be generous. Bar workers who know me also know that I will never ever say no to (partly) funding a food or snack purchase from some vendor.  50-80 Baht does not buy a ladydrink, but it buys a feckload of mystery-meatballs on sticks, that lots of staff can share. You've now demonstrated generosity beyond any doubt.  Even when not buying ladydrinks, you've permanently avoided the tightwad category.  Heck I even bring snacks, fruit or cookies to bars sometimes. Or small gifts and trinkets from Chiang Mai when going to Pattaya. Or, better than just about anything: stuff from Europe or the US after an overseas trip.  Girls often remember this for years, long after I completely forgot about it.

 

* Being considerate. a.k.a. 'mai pen rai'.  Being a bar girl / sex worker can be tough at times. Don't make it harder than it needs to be, also when they make mistakes, are very busy serving drinks, etc.  Don't be demanding.  They open the wrong kind of beer?  Fine, no prob. They open the wrong kind of beer (or make the wrong drink) for another customer who turns that into a big deal: fine, serve it to me.  A group of backpacker ladies break a glass and it turns into a major discussion on if they broke it or the waitress broke it…: (this last week): I nip it in the bud by asking how much a glass costs anyway (80 Baht) and ask the waitress to stop talking and put it on my bill.   Life’s too short, nobody wants to listen to that..  Plus not being demanding in other creative ways like I see so many guys do.. anyone can have an off-day, time of the month, argument with co-worker, whatever.

 

* Being polite, especially when speaking Thai.  You can never be too polite in Thailand, there’s only cred in using slangy terms if you get it spot on, which is unlikely.  Avoid the horrible bar-Tinglish.  Or when speaking English, you can speak English in such a way that almost nobody will understand you (people from the British isles especially suffer from that) or you can speak clearly, and simply, and almost everyone will understand.

 

* Making compliments and showing appreciation, about anything, no matter how small.  Find something to be nice about.  Avoid complaining, or even what many Europeans don’t call complaining but ‘observing’ or ‘asking’ but still with a critical slant on it that can be perceived as negative.  But all small talk is fine, about her kids, her parents, her life, her home town.. inevitably you learn a lot that way, I know I did.

 

* Being honest.  Admittedly this is not the first thing that comes to mind when you hear 'Thainess', but really nobody should ever have a reason to lie about anything in bars.  Don't hide you're married or in a relationship. Mostly because it doesn't matter.  Don't brag, it's not needed. Perhaps one of the best things about bars is that you can really be yourself; it's always good enough.

 

 

Yo Winnie

I swear this is one of your best posts ever, we ought to pin it. 

I think that the BG bars are underrated. More expats from CM should go and meet a BG. Its fun if you have the right attitude. And the girls will really appreciate you. Buy them 3 drinks and 100 baht tip, they make 250 baht, and you did your good deed for the day. Help the poor.

I always tell them they look great, their ear rings are beautiful, they look young, and still sexy etc. 

After reading your post I think a lot of men will be inclined to give the BG bars another go. If I go to a BG bar for the first time, and pick a BG right away out of the masses to drink with, I always have a good time. Its like shooting fish in a barrel, how can you lose? Its fun to sort out communication and then learn about a Thai person, and a woman besides. 

This thread has proven to be very popular. If members start discussing specific BG bars as being good, us men will want to go check them out. I think thats OK on TV.?

Winnie -HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU Aug 13

you are so brave to put your birthday on your Profile-few take that "risk" haha

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

I dont suppose that you were in there last night, was you ?

Just that I was in there last night watching football and I wondered whether anyone else in there was posting on TV

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

I dont suppose that you were in there last night, was you ?

Just that I was in there last night watching football and I wondered whether anyone else in there was posting on TV

No not last night, how was it? Can you give us a report?

On 8/10/2017 at 5:50 PM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

You have a very limited perception of what a bar is.  

 

And with that you managed to miss THE MAIN THING that makes nightlife in Thailand different.  What you describe is exactly what you'd do in a window in Amsterdam and the like.  

 

Thank God that Thailand isn't that.  If it was then -much like you- I wouldn't bother.

 

 

Very few bars have ladyboys at all, and among the handful that do most are reasonably well behaved, with possibly one or two exceptions.  So I would personally just skip those bars, much like skipping bars with overly aggressive people of any other gender.

Yea, you are right WTK, LB aren't a problem really. Just like any bar worker they got to get a drink make $ and since I went to the bar, I am fair game. I was just mad at a LB that crashed my table recently (I am drinking with 3 women and he welcomed himself to us). But, all he did was sit there, he was not aggressive, and I bought him 3 drinks along with the ladies, I had little choice, not happy about it at the time. I dont want to blame LB for being aggressive. Any BG might try to weasel in for a drink, why do you think they go to work? In retrospect, it was a minor expense, only that I felt taken, poor me.

On 8/10/2017 at 5:50 PM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

But on the topic of getting ganged up on (by anyone), there really is no problem in saying no.  Take out your phone and tell them you need to write some e-mails if you must.  Or tell them you're waiting for your wife who's shopping around the corner.  (Although personally I don't like lying, also because there's no need to lie about anything in a bar.  You'll get to that point. ) 

 

And then finally, ignoring girls is so much easier and more natural when you're not by yourself but have a friend (or just anyone) to talk to.  I do notice that when going to bars where people don't know me, like when in Bangkok or Pattaya:  if you're by yourself then really what are you going to do.. you could say 'no' but that telegraphs to the entire bar that you're a tightwad or otherwise not up for playing ball, which is also not quite what you want.   I know I spend a LOT less money in Bangkok bars when I'm with one or several friends.  When on your own it's really best to just buy a drink for someone.  Don't get rushed into it, but really that's just how the business model works, and part of the cost of the experience. 

 

(The above will inevitably trigger people to tell you to just 'grow a pair', 'just say no' or wonder why you're even care about a prostitute's feelings after rejecting her.   Thank you, we've heard it before. Also in this topic. )

 

What happens to me is that once I am known in a certain bar for buying lots of lady drinks, that is, many times, when I go back, I am flooded with BG that I know already. So I will always have a big group right away, and its the same every time. Eventually, I have to change bars. Could be that is some kind of natural cycle.

The only reason I go to the bar is to sit with the BG and buy them drinks, but I expect conversation, and I do a slow burn if BG attention is elsewhere talking to others. I usually offer drinks to multiple BG, if the opportunity presents.

To put in a plug for Carnival, you used to talk about it, Winnie, I went there about a month ago and had great times with 2 different BG 2 nights in a row. I remember each of their names, they spoke fine english, really enjoyed myself. I got to get back there.

Winnie, you said you have regular bars. So you know most of the BG there. How do you decide who to buy drinks for? The cashier got to have one, and the new girl(s).....hahaha 

If I go to a bar, and that bar never had any customers yesterday, and its 8pm today, those depressed BG need encouragement, a drink or two, in order to imagine that good luck is beginning for them. I always tell them, it is still early, maybe tonight will be a good night, I came didn't I? I always try to encourage them, saying " Mr Wonderful can walk into this bar anytime, maybe tonight. You never know..".

I hope this topic keeps going, but get back to how to have fun in the bars with the ladies.

For one thing I am wondering how others deal with agressive ladyboys. I only want to talk and hopefully flirt a bit with real women. What do you guys do about LB?

And I could use some pointers on how to avoid getting ganged up on too much by female BG. I do not know how to say no and I get kinda mobbed. Sound familiar guys?

I have been looking for a steady bar for over a year. I have time and money and I like to be generous. I like to hear their stories and about their lives.

Where I come from there are no such thing as welcoming bars with bar girls to sit and talk with like we have here in CM. 

If you dont like this bar BG scene, I understand, no need to comment.

If you do, this can be a good place to share experiences and strategies!

A couple of weeks back I went to see Lek and her women-folk at 69 bar in the boxing stadium on Loy Kroh. I have known Lek for years. Just wanted to blow some money having fun for a while.  Most of the girls are from Chiang Rai these days. Lek suggested I chat with Mimi since my favorite wasnt there. That was fine, and Mimi did ask me to buy 2 of her hard-up gal friends a drink , with explanations that they were Particularly deserving. Ha ha......all was well....then a particular ladyboy I saw the time before wanted one and I declined. I mean, I want to have fun with girls. But he just stood there staring at me, the other three started calling him sister, and I folded, OK OK.

Then this really young woman not a bargirl, or more probably a bg wanna be maybe? Appeared and she was really interesting. So I had 5 patrons, and once I got started I bought all of them 3 drinks. Plus mine. It ran me 2 grand, but I think Lek did give me a discount. They really only asked me for 4 drinks total, and I offered the rest,  got to admit.

As Winnie says, its best not to take things too seriously.....

I like to buy drinks for the bargirls. Either go back to see the same one or go in blind.    Ideally we talk for maybe 2 hours, have 3-4 drinks, then I give her 100 baht tip. However, I often get rather mobbed by the other poor desperate girls in the bar, and then next time I have to find a new bar because I am known to be a soft touch and they will mob me every time. I also want the girl to at least flirt a little, if she is cold and distant I wont go back to her next time. 

Whenever I go to a new bar I grab a girl on the way in just half hazardly, and buy her a drink right away. I dont mind buying a drink for her quote sister later on.

The Loy Kroh and boxing area women are not making any money and are desperate these days. Many evenings they dont make anything, not even food money. I enjoy meeting them and helping them a bit with drinks and tip. Seems like a win-win to me.

1 hour ago, XGM said:

Had lunch at Mad Dog a few hours ago, they said they won't sell alcohol today.

Had dinner at Mad Dog today, enjoyed my usual glass of red wine with my pizza. TIT 

word didnt get out?

I have enjoyed Dave2 photos and comments for years. Never met him tho.

In one of his last posts he was singing the praises of the little bakery and restaurant, Nice Sweet Place, think I got that name right, on Moon Muang. He liked to go there for a banana shake with the milk in it while enjoying the passing scene. I had done that also just days before he posted, wow, what a coincidence. Its like, we had a connection but I never met him.

Check this place out, its unique, and good pastries. Sit a spell. A smile will get you one back from the old ladies there. Its so cool. Daves hangout. RIP

Order from Lazada

I did my retirement visa last Wed.

The official wanted copies of the front page, the initial retirement visa stamp, the last visa extension stamp,the last entry to Thailand stamp, and arrival /departure card for that entry.

Thats 5 copies from your passport.

The girl out front told me to copy my bank book but the officer did not want it, because I used the income method to show I have enough dough. Just saying, the girls are guessing.

I just went to Ram hosp for sciatica. They take an xray and give pills and Ph Tx for two weeks, if not better , then MRI maybe then try an injection. But there is only surgery after that, if we still hope to get better.

The phy tx is warm compresses, electrical stimulation, and this spine stretching machine. I have been to one tx, 6 more to go. The mri is 15,000 baht, he said.

In my case the upper thigh is numb and weak, not all the way to the foot but same thing

Hope you get better, doc said 80% do with conservative tx.

BIB will do it for some tea money. No uniforn worn of course

Its not as easy to get the police to do useful things for tea money with the heavy army oversight. My wife asked them for help with something last week and they wouldnt, on this account. Actually my MIL was trying to extort money from my wife, my money, with a machete, actually threw the machete at both of us. Seemed like agood talking to from a uniform would be indicated, so I offered them a grand, but they wouldnt. Geeze, if the police wont take tea money, what country is this? Haha

Who ever reports a list of the honest karaokes by visiting them...go Winnie...!

there are small bags 5 liter I think, in Big C Hang Dong gardening supplies, nice stuff

Does it say peat moss on the bags I wonder ?

Yes, the green bags right on the shelf say Peat Moss. In the directions on the bag they direct the buyer to mix with first a measured amount of water then 1/3 vermiculite before use. You get the vermiculite at the flower market as many have said. I looked all over to finally find peat moss at Big C. I never found good peat moss at the FM but I could have missed it. Just go to Big C.

there are small bags 5 liter I think, in Big C Hang Dong gardening supplies, nice stuff

There are two go go bars in CM. Two nights ago I decided to have a beer in one of them. Foxy Lady was closed and Spotlight had a total of 4 dancers of poor quality. Seems like this may have affected the go gos too.

My Apple Mac "died" without warning and I need to replace it urgently. Any suggestions fro the best place to purchase an Apple Mac in Chiang Mai?

How dead is dead - there is an apple service centre in airport plaza now

I went to the new Apple Service Center at AP. I told them my MacBook was/is infected with a malware/adware and would they clean this out for me? After 3 trips to the back to consult with the technician, the young lady told me that the technician removed it, there is no charge, you can take it home now, goodbye. This was BS, nothing was done that improved or solved the problem. It was just a waste of time, and no fun waiting for my que.

2nd floor Pantip Plaza always fixes my Epson printer usually right away when i walk in with it

There is Zen Hydroponics tucked away in a soi between Loy Kroh and Tae pae. Google it. Sells the fertilizer and supplies. Nice guy. Its hard to find though. Just a backyard operation. Pm me i.f you want specifics of location.

The road on the Fang side gave me a major scare when decending on my Honda PCX with my wife on the back. The automatic transmission was not sufficient to slow the vehicle, my wife and I are bigish as well, making me rely on the brakes too much. They overheated and suddenly there were NO brakes. Actually, I had pulled over out of fear for the bike which was smelling from the brake heat, and when I got stopped, both brakes went totally limp apparently having boiled the brake fluid. After waiting a while the brakes came back and someone nice gave my wife the rest of the ride down. After that nightmare, I took the turn to Chiang Dao and almost ran out of gas.

I think most bikes with a standard transmission are OK. That road is unbelieveable switchbacks and steep.

Rocky said:

Lets live this life to its maximum potential free of aversion, greed & delusion."

My response:

Rocky,

IMO it is a mistake to make this statement from a Buddhist perspective.

It is quite like saying "I think therefore I am", which leads to Western thought.

It is the opposite of Buddha's teaching on selflessness.

If we want to live lives free of delusion, this is the ultimate delusion, according to my understanding of basic Buddhism.

It is possible to defend the statement, sure, but to say it is the one thing we know absolutely, that I think is wrong.

For what it's worth

Huli

Yes, my wife and I went CM to Korea with a 5 hour wait then direct to Chicago over Thanksgiving on Korean Air for about $1500 each. Good food and entertainment, nothing to complain about. On the way back the wait in Korea is only 2 hours.

Through the ages, there have always been people who know the absolute truth and are therefore competent and qualified to teach it and recognize others' realization. In the case of the Mahayana and Vajrayana, there have been many such beings who have appeared. This relates to the idea of reincarnation and the fruits of successful practice. In Mahayana and Vajrayana, realized beings do not simply end their physical existence. Those who have taken the Bodhisattva vow reincarnate as spiritually evolved beings. Moreover, a single spiritually evolved being may do this for many, many human lifetimes. For example, HH Dudjom Rinpoche, at Tibetan master of the mid-20th century was recognized as the most highly realized master from among all Tibetan schools. His incarnation lineage includes that in a previous life, he was Shariputra, one of Shakaymuni's closets disciples. Hinayanists don't accept this but it is a deeply held belief among all Tibetan schools. As further example, by the time Dudjom Rinpoche was 14 years old, he had already mastered all four schools of Tibetan Buddhism and, at that age, lead large month-long ceremonies attended by 1,000s of monks and lamas.

The question always arises, "Who decides that such-and-such person is a spiritually realized being?" Beings like Dudjom Rinpoche and others are foretold in histories and predictions left by previous masters. Also, such beings don't get to rest on their laurels...they must prove themselves. As mentioned, Dudjom Rinpoche was able to lead large groups of monks and lama through very complex, month-long ceremonies at the age of 14. No one who was not fully realized could ever accomplish it, a charlatan could not, a phony couldn't, even a very smart and well-trained monk could not - it would be impossible for someone to simply do so. It's not be any different than claiming your are great physicist but know very little about physics - you'd be discovered in two seconds by those who did know. There are many such examples in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions. It is in the Hinayana where so many doubts about this still linger.

I don't know from which sutta/writing, but didn't even the Buddha himself say: "I am not omnipotent!".

If he wasn't, how could Dudjom Rinpoche be?

No, my understanding is that when one attains Buddhahood, it includes omnipotence: knowing the past, present, and future of all beings.

The capacity to know everything is omniscience.

To have unlimited power is to be omnipotent.

Just saying.

I wouldnt doubt that a Buddha might know the past, present, and future of all beings. But that alone would not make him omniscient, much less omnipotent.

If a person sticks to Theravada, the interpretation of the dharma is pretty consistent IMO. Once you allow for the Mahayana and the Tibetans, sure, it can get all over the place, perhaps even "tangential" in some respects.

I'm finding there is a lot of "pick & choose", not only on which scriptures but also which interpretations.

We're talking about practices which can take a lifetime to master.

Practices which have the power to alter our habits.

Once we adopt new habits, right or wrong, why would we reject them? Especially if we are conditioned to believe they are the Buddhas teaching.

If you go out there and do a survey you'll find interpretations, paths and practices are all over the place.

Even the one you subscribe to contains a myriad of interpretation.

Hi Rocky,

I agree with you that it is a problem figuring out who to listen to in this world, about Buddhism or anything else. If we believe or follow the wrong person or "guide" for a long time, it would be a waste of time or "a cruel misunderstanding" as you put it.

That's why Buddha said to judge for yourself if a person makes sense or not before believing them.

If a person is following a guide for years fruitlessly, I think that person should reasonably doubt that guide. However, the basic Buddhist teachings make sense, so there is no reason to doubt those.

As you mentioned, some people on this forum say that everyone needs a guide, and there are such guides. I don't think that was what Buddha said though. Didn't he say to follow his teachings after he was gone?

Now, you may say what teachings? The teachings on the Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path, and the ones on how to meditate. These particular sutras are not subject to misinterpretation, or barely so, IMHO.

In summary, the Buddhist Path is not one of "picking and choosing", with "paths and practices all over the place", and "myriad interpretations".

Or that would be my take on it. Thank you for the dialogue.

Respectfully submitted.

Check my auto-signature phrase, "If two scholars agree, one is not a scholar; if two siddhas disagree, one not a siddha." This is a Tibetan proverb meaning that there will always be disagreements on philosophy, it's what keeps inquiry alive, fresh and meaningful. Fortunately, Buddhists don't go to war with each other over their differences. For the other part, a siddha is someone who has achieved a high state of realization and, according to the proverb, that realization is unmistakeable and beyond fault. Hence, if someone claims to be a siddha but there is a dispute about the quality of that realization, then one of them is not truly realized, ie., is not a siddha. That is to say, there is no mistake in Buddha nature; if someone perceives a mistake in Buddha nature, it is really the impure perception of the one who finds fault.

Yes, but this Siddha is only known to him/herself or to other Siddhas.

Where are the guides?

The interpretations of Dharma are so wide and numerous, they are tangential (will never meet).

Discussion and debate of the unknown is healthy, but spending a lifetime practicing a misunderstanding is cruel.

Buddha said that we should examine any teachings for ourselves, and we will be able to tell if they make sense or not (Kalamas).

If a person sticks to Theravada, the interpretation of the dharma is pretty consistent IMO. Once you allow for the Mahayana and the Tibetans, sure, it can get all over the place, perhaps even "tangential" in some respects.

Doubt in the Buddhist Path is one of the 5 basic hindrances and will prevent any progress on this Path. If you think about it, this teaching about doubt makes sense, so it can be accepted.

Spending one's life as a Buddhist, yet having doubt in the Path, is pitiful, and surely worse than having a misunderstanding (which is a noun not a verb). I mean, us regular people don't understand everything perfectly, who knows if we ever will, but that doesn't mean we are "practicing a misunderstanding".

Certain Pali scholars have made their reputation in casting doubt on the dharma in creative ways. It boils down to, either you follow them to nowhere, or get back to the basics that make sense to you.

Respectfully submitted