khunjamespittman

allow the majority of citizens to assemble around the people that they want to be their leaders and help determine their destiny.

That's not how it works in Thailand, not in the rural areas under complete dominance of locally strong political parties, be it South for Democrats, Suphan for Chart Thai, or Isan for TRT/PPP.

Thanks for your comment.

I see many posts here that are very condescending to group (class) of people frequently referred to as rural or farmers. It is presumptuous to assume that we are in any way superior to any other person in our countries. Mutual respect is a far better relationship in a civilized world. Every farmer does not require a Phd in Political Science. If someone believes that a particular group doesn't have some necessity that would make them a more productive citizen (ie. from your implication, able to cast a better vote) then we should try to educate those persons so that the country would be a better place and they could could cast a more informed vote. Having achieved that we should not assume that these people will ever act or do everything we like. In a Democracy everyone has an equal right for their opinions and everyone deserves a mutual respect.

You think there's civil strife now? Just watch what the reaction of the urban middle and upper classes would be to the outcome of an election wherein the poor of this country put aside their regional differences and cast truly informed votes- votes supporting a genuine champion of the poor majority. A truly educated rural vote would - and probably eventually will (hence the perceived need for a New Politics)- result in the kind of governments we now see in much of Latin America- wherein THaksin's paltry attempts at populism will be looked back on (fondly) as nothing more than crumbs that didn't really hurt the tax paying minority too much at all.

Thanks for your comment.

Sorry, I don't find anything worthy of comment. If you are looking for a fight you didn't find it here. Vitriolic comments seldom accomplish anything other that more vitriolic comments. We all understand your hatred. Your words have no affect on your perceived enemies. Hatred is not a solution, only an excuse. From your comments I would suppose that you are too young to have ever seen actual civil strife. Perhaps you read about it somewhere. If you ever were confronted by it then you would never wish it on any human being. I suggest, perhaps, a calmer and more rational approach. The idea is to save Thailand not destroy it.

I only said today that the baht went below 30, because a post in this thread said so. I never got fewer than 31.25 baht for a dollar. Other folks on ThaiVisa have talked about a return to the glory, fake days of the fixed rate of 25:1, Only the perennial rose-colored glasses worn by britmaveric have predicted a return to the nearly equally fake days of 40 and above.

It seems amazing that a 40% drop in the Dow-Jones stock market is joined by a strong dollar. Flight to quality.

I see many posts here using incorrect Baht exchange rates. This leads to much anxiety and misunderstanding. Everyone please try to use current information and not just quote others. I am not an expert on currency exchange rates but I don't believe a fall in the Dow is a factor. It seems far more likely that the improvement in the Dollar is directly related to the reduction in the price of oil caused by reduced consumption, thus requiring a much lower outlay of Dollars. That would be exactly what is expected.

The Thai govt, can revoke his diplomatic passport anytime they want. He would then ridiculously have to got the Thai embassy in the UK to get a new standard one, where who knows what would happen. Under the constitution, they can't refuse him a normal Thai passport. If he wants to apply for an investors visa, he has to start the procedure in Bangkok, and those rules are set that way.

He is hedging his bets that PPP won't last and that the next ones in will revoke his diplomatic passport. If he applies for asylum, he can then start the procedure of getting a Brit passport, which enables him to go pretty much anywhere, which a standard Thai passport definitely does not.

It isn't unheard of for asylum seekers in the UK to have to give up their original passport documents, but in this situation, it may up to the given judge to decide.

RED:

They can because of the existing and legal Arrest Warrants! They need only to give an special travel document for to leave the UK directly headed to Thailand.

Cheers.

I stand corrected, so on that basis, he has absolutely no option but to apply for asylum and apply for a British passport, which could take a couple of years to process. As far as I know, investors visas have to be applied for in country of origin.

Question, when given a diplomatic passport in Thailand or anywhere in the world, does your "civilian"/standard passport become null and void? For instance, if Kofi Annan takes a holiday, does he travel on a diplomatic passport or can he choose to travel on his standard passport?

If Thaksin is carrying a Diplomatic Passport the Thai government has every right to revoke that passport. Thaksin is a Thai by birth and it would be a great embarrassment to the Thai government if they implied that he cannot hold a Thai passport. It would be acceptable to ry to restrict his travel by seizing his passport. That may not be too bad since the Thai Government is today the laughing stock of the rest of the world in that they are governing not as a sovereign state but as a bunch of rouges, each insisting on having their own way. My guess is that they would not replace Thaksin's Diplomatic passport anyway. In that case and any reading of the government's and opposition's many public statements would conclude that Thaksin's chance of avoiding persecution is very near impossible and would approve a request for asylum, contrary to the many comments by supposedly UK citizens' statement to the contrary. As stated above Thaksin could likely easily obtain a passport from any number of countries. People in this forum don't seem to be aware that every vitriolic statement they make further legitimizes Thaksin's request for asylum.

I don't have a dog in this hunt but I suggest that everyone cool the rhetoric and let litigation take its course. If the Thai government has specific charges that refute the Thaksin claims, they should submit them to the UK government for their consideration. It is my hope that Thailand can stop the railing and start acting like intelligent human beings worthy of being accepted as a sovereign nation. The world, at large, is not impressed by thugs screaming instead of helping by following the laws.

allow the majority of citizens to assemble around the people that they want to be their leaders and help determine their destiny.

That's not how it works in Thailand, not in the rural areas under complete dominance of locally strong political parties, be it South for Democrats, Suphan for Chart Thai, or Isan for TRT/PPP.

Thanks for your comment.

I see many posts here that are very condescending to group (class) of people frequently referred to as rural or farmers. It is presumptuous to assume that we are in any way superior to any other person in our countries. Mutual respect is a far better relationship in a civilized world. Every farmer does not require a Phd in Political Science. If someone believes that a particular group doesn't have some necessity that would make them a more productive citizen (ie. from your implication, able to cast a better vote) then we should try to educate those persons so that the country would be a better place and they could could cast a more informed vote. Having achieved that we should not assume that these people will ever act or do everything we like. In a Democracy everyone has an equal right for their opinions and everyone deserves a mutual respect.

I really think that perhaps it is time for the military to stop the violence and clear the PAD themselves from Government House. Ever since the PAD started dominating the Thai political scene the country has been going down hill. Somchai has no balls or ability to do that.

Oh really?

I had a slight impression that the country was going downhill far before the PAD stepped in.

This and the latter government were only busy trying to change the constitution for opening up the way..........

A people gets the government they deserve.

A government gets the opposition they deserve.

It appears that some of the leaders of Thailand are willing to sacrifice the freedom of the masses of Thailand people in exchange for a high position including the trappings of wealth and power that they hope would fall on them with a coup.

Democracy empowers all the people and a coup places the power with a few privileged people. Forget all the discussion of class and education being Thai culture and envision another Myanmar. Thailand has made great strides (financially and world respect) during its brief periods when Democracy was allowed to flourish.

I am sad that it appears that some in Thailand seem to be willing to sacrifice the country and keep the masses in a lower class to insure their perceived superiority.

Except what you describe is already the case a few elites control the country.

One bunch actually because of something more or less resembling a poll,

but effectively just a political machine control mechanism.

Like from the movie Gangs of New York, which this whole scenario so oddly resembles.

There is too much money to be made by too many

for any kind of Myanmar situation to transpire.

There also isn't the mental illness derived army culture in the same mad fashion.

I am more worried about loss of general well being, than decent in to the 7th ring of hel_l.

When was this time when "democracy was allowed to flourish"?

It is a post 19th century feudalist society grappling

with one foot in the 19th and one toe in the 21st.

No wonder the're blinking confused!

Thank you for your comments.

I have no doubt that I can never convince you that Democracy,given a chance, will work. A Democracy is not intended to make you happy with the results. It is to allow the majority of citizens to assemble around the people that they want to be their leaders and help determine their destiny. You have every right in a Democracy to disagree with their selection. Your alternative if you want your desired leader to win an election is to convince a majority of citizens that you are correct. It is unwise to destroy the very Democracy that provides you with an opportunity to choose the leaders that you believe would do what you want and by the I hope you would also like to make the country prosper.

As for your comment about when Thailand had prospered. You only have to look back a few years ago when all of Asia was talking about modeling themselves after Thailand because Thailand's growth was far outpacing the rest of world and had even contemplated creating an Asia-wide entity to help implement Thailand's economic policies. As I recall, at the time, there was much discussion amongst the Asia leaders to ask the PM of Thailand to fill this position.

It appears that some people have a failing memory about anything except their immediate gratification. Everyone should contribute to improvement rather than attack and counter attack.

I really think that perhaps it is time for the military to stop the violence and clear the PAD themselves from Government House. Ever since the PAD started dominating the Thai political scene the country has been going down hill. Somchai has no balls or ability to do that.

Oh really?

I had a slight impression that the country was going downhill far before the PAD stepped in.

This and the latter government were only busy trying to change the constitution for opening up the way..........

A people gets the government they deserve.

A government gets the opposition they deserve.

It appears that some of the leaders of Thailand are willing to sacrifice the freedom of the masses of Thailand people in exchange for a high position including the trappings of wealth and power that they hope would fall on them with a coup.

Democracy empowers all the people and a coup places the power with a few privileged people. Forget all the discussion of class and education being Thai culture and envision another Myanmar. Thailand has made great strides (financially and world respect) during its brief periods when Democracy was allowed to flourish.

I am sad that it appears that some in Thailand seem to be willing to sacrifice the country and keep the masses in a lower class to insure their perceived superiority.

I must ask those people wht would happen if the rule of law was abandoned and each person was allowed to do as they wish. Some people might like to rob banks to get their money instead of working and providing a improvement for the country. Others might like to kill people that disagree with them. - yes sure if it is the government doing it and poeple go out on the streets to protest that it's their constitutional rights - haven't read that they aren' t anymore in force! It is the government's responsibiliy and duty to maintain law and order and to prosecute ALL law-breakers. - See this government shoud have arrested itself! Surely we must all agree that PAD was acting in violation of existing Thai law and therefore gave the Government no option but to enforece the Thai laws.

We could or can agree, but nobody must agree it's directing, dictating!

In a Democracy all people have the same right to opinions within the established law including the right to change the laws and select their leaders. - yes as in following the laws! Alll have to, all even politicians! Same, same, sir! The notion of class in a Democracy is silly in the context of Democratic Governance. The concept of class is necessary for anarchy. If that is what the people Thailand want, I don't have a problem with that.

i don't think that any Thai People, even the protesting PAD people want anarchy or to dislodge the foundations of society - I think that they are out there to exactly PROTECT this from further harm and exploitation, they are exercising their rights as citizen of this country to demonstrate against a government that wont step down, follow the rules of law...

I do have a problem with someone telling that because I wasn't born in a certain place that I don't have the intelligence to comprehend wihat is happening in a "Democracy". This has absolutely nothing to do with national origin or culture. These are baseless arguments that are typically used to try to dominate like trying win a debate by shouting louder. Sorry, but this is exactly "shouting louder" polemics at its worst, sir!

Take your pills and let's have a civil discussion. - Quite funny too, now you are not only "shouting louder" but tell every body to shut up! Well, "take your pills", I am utterly sorry, Sir, but what you are trying to tell the audience I would consider undercover propaganda against the very people who wish to bring in changes and they will, they are determined the more then ever after yesterday's event's repeating almost exactly 32 years later on it's very anniversary

Thank you for your comments.

I am sorry that you didn't understand the purpose of my post. I was not advocating for any side. I was not dictating. I was only pointing out that for any 2 intelligent people to reach a compromise they have to strive to find common ground. Therefore, they must search for this common ground within the existing laws. Shouting in red isn't very helpful in this endeavor. A civil discourse would be helpful.

Percent satisfied or very satisfied with the Thaksin regime 89.5 81.8

In 2006 81.8% of Thais were "very satisfied" with Thaksin's regime, at the height of anti-Thaksin protests?

This number alone undermines the credibility of this so called "academic" paper.

Well after last nights tirade of "foreigner go home", I though it may in place to print a Thai institute's considered opinion on the matter.

Let's see if we can't find a civil resolution.

Without disparaging an persons or group and with assuming that any one of our opinions is any better that the others because of culture or national origin. After all, we are intelligent human beings capable of understanding that you can't survive long if you step in front of a moving truck on a highway. We don't need to get run over to know that. Neither do we have to live in a specific place or be of a certain national origin to understand when people are acting irrationally. That being said, can the vast majority of us agree that in order for a civil Democratic nation to survive arule of laws must be established and followed by all? I can understand why some people are upset because people were injured. I accept that. I must ask those people wht would happen if the rule of law was abandoned and each person was allowed to do as they wish. Some people might like to rob banks to get their money instead of working and providing a improvement for the country. Others might like to kill people that disagree with them. This would lead to chaos and anarchy and the country would decay and eventually disappear. Just look at Somalia. The government must enforce the rule of law even if some law-breakers are killed or injured. It is the government's responsibiliy and duty to maintain law and order and to prosecute ALL law-breakers. Surely we must all agree that PAD was acting in violation of existing Thai law and therefore gave the Government no option but to enforece the Thai laws.

In a Democracy all people have the same right to opinions within the established law including the right to change the laws and select their leaders. The notion of class in a Democracy is silly in the context of Democratic Governance. The concept of class is necessary for anarchy. If that is what the people Thailand want, I don't have a problem with that.

I do have a problem with someone telling that because I wasn't born in a certain place that I don't have the intelligence to comprehend wihat is happening in a "Democracy". This has absolutely nothing to do with national origin or culture. These are baseless arguments that are typically used to try to dominate like trying win a debate by shouting louder.

Take your pills and let's have a civil discussion.

You know what I don't like, in the real? It's that total negative attitude!

Except a few poster's most of the post are negative to one group, here the PAD and glorifying the other site. Ok, the main differences between that two sites are that the PD are mainly supported from those middle and lower class and the other site is the one with the most power.

I really frankly ask all of you: What you're doing if foreigner in YOUR Country acting like you here in Thailand?! I know from Germany and other Europe Countries what they thinking in the real and that is much different from that how they act here in Thailand!

Cheers.

Look, the Internet was never intended to have a censor or tyrant directing communication. I suggest if you can't handle people disagreeing with your thoughts it is time for a new and fair minded moderator. Your tirades don't contribute to anything.

The internet should remain open for the free expression of ideas and thoughts of all participants not just those who agree with the moderator.

I believe the actual intent was a Democratic Republic and that's what was formed.

gregb , your post is nothing but a crock of delusional madness , the sort of rubbish put together by people who imagine themselves to be brave new revolutionaries but who are in fact dysfunctional loners with skin conditions stuck in sticky bedsits in wolverhampton or walsall.

Well, I have to admit, the vitriol here isn't quite as bad as I was expecting, however may I suggest it is the cultural narratives and myths we have been raised with, rather than any individual, that is dysfunctional and delusional.

While this may be difficult, try to step back and see what is really there. Democracy today as a form of government is broken, and needs to be reformed. Some of the ideas are not necessarily bad, but they won't work in practice during the coming era of energy depletion. Communism (as implemented) as a form of government was also a laudable goal, but it didn't work either and for the most part has been abandoned. Democracy will follow the same path eventually.

BTW, the original intent of the framers of the US Constitution was that it would be a republic, NOT a democracy. There is a big difference. And there is alot of value in studying history and understanding this point.

We do have a problem here, and one point of this thread was to hope to find some of the more interesting ideas people may have about ways to fix the problems. Granted, I intentionally chose a rather provocative way to begin it. I will defend the statement to any of you who care to discuss.

TAT and Thai Airways in joint tourism effort

BANGKOK: -- The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) and Thai Airways International (THAI) are joining hands by setting up a marketing unit to beat the tourism downturn and boost business long-term.

Wanchai Sarathoonthat, TAT chairman of the board, said the new unit, to be set up soon, would not only encourage tourism for the rest of this year but also in the long term.

The tourism market is facing a tough situation due to many negative factors, particularly an increase in operation costs, the economic slowdown and political unrest.

THAI has already lost close to Bt7 billion during the first six months while TAT is worrying about missing its target of 15 million tourist arrivals for the year.

"Over the next six months, TAT and THAI will initiate marketing promotion and campaigns both at home and overseas to boost the tourism sector," said Wanchai.

THAI is also considering reducing fuel surcharges as oil prices continue to fall.

TAT will join bidding to host international tourism conferences in Thailand. It plans to talk with event organisers in the UK, Australia and other countries.

TAT governor Phornsiri Manoharn said both parties would revive the national campaign "Visit Thailand Year in 2009".

Phornsiri said TAT and THAI would combine their advertisement, corporate marketing campaigns and promotions. The deal could result in huge cost savings. TAT will also use its crisis communications centre as the centre of the working group.

TAT believes it could reach its tourism target of 15 million arrivals this year because advance bookings from Europe for the coming high season in the fourth quarter have reportedly increased by 10 per cent.

THAI president Apinan Sumanaseni said the airline was already prepared for the high season by adding more flights to countries such as Russia.

-- The Nation 2008-08-21

Does anyone know if the TAT and Thai Airways promotion will include any special air ticket prices to the US?

The JFK to BKK flight has been stopped. Where can I get the best price for a RDU to Heathrow to BKK to CNX flight?

At least in IT sector a large portion of the people are not US citizens. I don't know about pharma.

Plus, saying something doesn't make it true. A quick look at the quarterly US Economic employment statistics would show you that your assertions are just plain "BS". At least try to not to make your own facts. Your rantings show your deep lack of self-respect.http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emotic...fault/smile.gif

I am confused about how Dual Citizens (THAI/US) are required to travel to/from US and Thailand.

I have heard "rumors" that Thai Immigration is asking Thai looking travelers, if they present a US Passport, whether they have a Thai Passport and telling them that they must use it to enter Thailand.

Whne they return to US and show the US passport the US immigration raise a rukus because there is no record in the US Passport about being in Thailand.

What is the correct procedure?

Will either the Thai or US Immigration provide any help on how this travel should be done correctly?

Anyone have any info or Contacts?

I am a US citizen. My spouse is a dual (US and Thai ) citizen. What is the correct protocol for my spouse to use when traveling to/from Thailand.

I thought the proper way would be to use her Thai Passport to enter and exit immigration in Thailand and use her US Passport to enter and exit US Immigration but I have heard several people say that this is not possible.

What is the proper way?

Regards,

I signed up for the branded emaila service several days ago and have received not noitification yet. Is there a problem or is it just taking longer than expected?

regards,

KhunJames

That rhetoric sure sounds like a military government to me. Could we be looking at another Burma? I have said in other posts that this is the first time in all the years I have lived here that I have been worried. The military throws out the constitution and deposes the democratically elected leader. I for one do not take this lightly.

Hmm, as much as I was in favor of getting rid of Toxin, the current admin is certainly out to stiffle any press that might be negative... hmmm, good point.

Another Burma? There is already one in the West. The people voted for a certain person, yet another person took the thrown. Oh, and the Patriot Act disallows people to talk bad about the government. :D

It is clearly obvious that you have never read the Patriot Act provisions and the its revisions. The Act's provisions are directed solely at tracking and prosecuting terrorists. Please try to contain your political predjudices.

Who do I contact to see about installing TOT ADSL in Chiangmai?

Hi I am returning to Chiangmai this month. I need DSL service for my computer. I have checked with Loxinfo and they cannot provide this service for me. I live near Cholpratarn road and Ring 2 road.

Anyone have links to DSL service providers that I can contact?

Thanks for any assistance.

Hi all,

we've just moved to a new apartment that has a TOT line.

Unfortunately, True tells me that they can't transfer their service to the new line. Can anyone recommend something for us?

We were using the cheapest True package that cost 512 baht a month or something along those lines. Fast enough for our purposes and it had unlimited usage, which was a key feature for us.

Can someone recommend a TOT friendly service of a similar variety.

Many thanks in advance.

Hi all,

We have just got our TOT wirless modem and I have everything setup and ready to for monday when they open the connection for us.

The first month was free so we have gone for 1MB and then after that depending we will either stick with it or down grade the speed.

My question is we live in Mae Taeng Chiang Mai and I'm wondering how reliable the connection is?

If any of you are on this I would love to hear what you think of the service!

Cheers

Ash

I will be coming back to Chiangmai this month. I live near Cholpratarn Road. Is there a link I can contact to get DSL installed there? I need the fast connection..

Any help appreciated.

TOT and TT&T are both about the same because they use the same lines. but perhaps someone knows better/different.

i live in hang dong and have TT&T....and most days it works fine.

I live off Cholpratarn Road and will come back to Chiangmai this month. I need to get ADSL installed at my house. What are the links to the DSL service providers that I anc contact?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

I am coming back to chiangmai this month. What do I have to do to get DSL installed in my house. How do I contact TOT or TT&T or others to get this service?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.