h3ith

7 hours ago, chilly07 said:

You can get a Kor Ror 2

My wife got the updated Kor Ror 2 from the local amphoe office in early June

7 hours ago, chilly07 said:

He has a legal obligation to do the section 30 registration.

I did the TM30 registration the same day I got the house key.

I insisted on a power of attorney form when I signed the rental contract, so I could go to the immigration office myself, instead of relying on the owner, and receive the TM30 confirmation slip. 

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

What you suggest is one way but what is the value of the house if you don't own the land it sits on?.

The house as such is not important.

Ideally, in a divorce, she would get both the house and the land, but I can walk away with my 50% of my net worth, i.e. financial assets (rather than only 25%). She would certainly want to sell the house and land because her family lives in Issan, far away from the coast. So she can convert the house to cash, and I'd have the other half of my assets. I suppose she would accept this solution.

I'm more thinking in the direction of: her future lawyer may tell her that according to Thai law she can get much more than 50% of my assets, and her family urges her that she must grasp everything she can.

7 hours ago, Susco said:

If you buy a property with in mind that your wife will divorce you, then better don't buy.

I guess you can approach marriage from 3 angles:

1) Never marry because it might end in divorce, with financial implications. That's a personal choice. But I'm not sure how many self-confirmed spinsters and bachelors choose to remain single based on a risk calculus.

2) Marry, with rose-tinted glasses on. Assume that your own marriage can never end with divorce, unlike 30% or 50% of the other marriages. Enjoy this happy perspective while it lasts. 

3) Marry, but without rose-tinted glasses. There is a 1 in 3 risk that a fresh marriage will not last forever. After having survived the first 11 years, as in my case, one can assume that the risk for the next 30 years will be lower, perhaps 1 in 6 or even 1 in 10. That's still a Russian roulette risk. Out of curiosity, I'd like to learn if the rules of the game can be designed so that I just point a pea gun at my temple instead of a .357 magnum. 

3 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

If your wife does not have a decent cash reserve, how do you expect to get bought out of your end of the agreement.

She does not need to buy me out. Assume that almost the entire 10M of my net worth was accumulated during our 11 years of marriage. In a divorce, she is entitled to 50% of it. If accumulated during the marriage, all of the assets are marital property, with or without land or a house. She can claim 50% of marital assets.

But under Thai law she would get 100% of house and land, plus 50% of the remaining marital assets (mostly investment funds). That would leave me with less than 25% of the original 10M.

3 minutes ago, Susco said:

Good luck with a house, build on land you are not allowed to access.

I'm not concerned about the house. She can keep it, sell it, whatever.

But I'd like to keep at least a 50% share of my assets if we ever part ways rather than just 25%. 

16 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The figures would make sense the other way around, land 5,000,000, house 500,000.

As for marital property, this would confirm the uneven split of assets:

5M representing the land would become her personal property. And she would get 50% of the remaining 5M of our assets. So 7.5M for her, 2.5M for me in a divorce.

Did any of you have a different legal arrangement when you purchased a house? 

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

The developer is dressing up leasehold as freehold and charging the same price.

ok, thx for the advice

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

able to supply an address

I saw the tabien baan of a neighbor's house, identifying it as house number 14.

I suppose the real estate agent identified our house as number 17 just because it was the 17th house built in the community, taking the number from the community's development plan.

Just now, Peterw42 said:

The figures would make sense the other way around, land 5,000,000, house 500,000.

The property company offers the same house also as a leasehold, for the same price as a freehold. This would imply that the value of the house is much higher than the land value.

11 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

you registered a TM30 (where did the address come from?)

The rental contract that was set up by the real estate agent identifies it as house number 17 in the gated community. The address in the rental contract was accepted for TM30.

3 minutes ago, h3ith said:

hus, her total assets would be 0.5+5.0+2.25 = 7.75m = 155%

I'm not saying that she gets 155% of the house. That's not possible.

I'm saying that if our total net worth of 10M is split up, she gets much more the total net worth of 10M - if both house and land are counted as her personal property rather than joint marital property.

So the house purchase would not only transfer 5.5M into her personal assets, but 7.75M = much more than the value of the house.

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Where do you get a mystery 10% figure from, or 160% ?

Assume the house value is 5,000,000 and the land value 500,000. The land value is 10% relative to the house value.

The land would have to become personal property of my wife by Thai law, not joint marital property.

Assume my total net worth is 10,000,000 (land, house plus anything else) and her is 0.

In the case of a divorce, the 10,000,000, when it is considered joint marital property, would be split 50:50.

1) But:

The land is not married property, but her personal property. So she would get 500,000 for the land plus 50% of the remaining 9,500,000 = 5,250,000. In other words, she gets more than 50% of the 10,000,000.

2) Now, if she buys both the land and the house (with a cash gift from me), would both be counted as her personal property? If she resells the house to me for 5,000,000, would a future divorce court conclude that her "personal property" consists of a land value of 500,000 and the selling price of 5,000,000 she got from me for the house that was originally registered in her name together with the land?

Then her personal assets would amount to:

500,000 land

5,000,000 proceeds from the house sale to me

The remaining 4,500,000 would be joint marital property, of which she would get 50% in a divorce = 2.25M.

Thus, her total assets would be 0.5+5.0+2.25 = 7.75m = 155% of the house value of 5M.

My assets after a divorce would be 10 - 7.75 = 2.25. That's my concern.

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

Normally a signed copy of the landlords Blue House book

I've got a copy of the owner's passport, besides the rental contract.

But was told by the Thai real estate agent that no tabien baan exists yet because the house is new. The owner is Chinese and does not live in Thailand. I guess the Chinese must have purchased a leasehold from the property company that owns the fenced community.

My wife supposed that a tabian baan would only be created after a house is inhabited for the first time. That's wrong? The blue tabian baan should have been created as soon as the house was completed even if it stayed empty for some months?

I was wondering about "tabien baan" in the list of documents required for the extension and was not sure if it refers to our rental house; or just to my wife's tabien baan.

I understand from you that for the extension, I don't need a copy of the tabian baan of the rental house - all the more because I have a valid TM30 registration?

The required tabian baan is just evidence for my wife's identity, in addition to her national ID card, but does not serve as evidence of our residence address?

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

filed a TM30

yes, I filed the TM30 for myself, supported by a power of attorney form signed by the owner, a copy of his passport and the rental contract. I've got the TM30 confirmation slip from immigration office.

So I suppose if they accepted the rental contract for TM30, they will also accept it for the extension.

How did you organize the legal terms of a house purchase (freehold) with your wife? 

1) Last week, I suggested to a property company that my wife would buy the land as freehold and I would buy the house on it. Then my wife and I would sign a usufruct agreement.

2) But the property company replied that my wife should buy both the land and house; then my wife would sell the house to me in in a separate contract. 

Alternative 2 would certainly be simpler for the property company. But I wonder about the short end of the stick.

The sale from my wife to me would trigger a property sales tax. 

My wife would have to get the money for her purchase from me, as a gift.

My understanding is:

The land and also the house would be registered as her personal property (not marital property).

When she sells the house (minus the land) to me, this would be a sale of her personal property. So also the cash for the selling price would be classified as her personal property, while the house I purchase from her would become marital property, to be split 50:50 in the case of a divorce. Effectively, 160% of the property value would be classified as hers (first my gift to her: 100% of the house value plus ca. 10% representing the land value; and then 50% of the marital house).

I don`t mind to leave her with the land value and 50% of the house value should things go south in a couple of years. After 11+x years of marriage, I'd consider it time served for her if we don't quite make it until death doth part us. But I'm wondering about the value transfers that would increase her calculated "personal property" to more than 100% of the house price should things go to court in 10 years.

Before I ask some Thai lawyer - did you use a different legal construction for a house purchase? 

The first extension application for my Non-Imm O visa based on marriage will be due soon.

My wife's tabien baan still shows the village in Si Sa Ket where she grew up and where she owns the house her parents signed over to her 10 years ago.

This month, we rented a house in Prachuap Khiri Khan. I signed the rental contract, so she has no paperwork that states that she lives with me in our rented house.

Will this be a problem when we go the immigration office next week? Does she need to register her place of residence in our rented house? The owner is a foreigner, not living in Thailand, so our rented house does not have a blue or yellow Tabian Baan, we were told.

Or will the immigration office just rely on the police visit at our house, and some Thai witnesses, to verify that we live together?