Tanomazu
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Posts posted by Tanomazu
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8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:
So COVID hasn’t killed over 4.5million people and isn’t continuing to kill people?
Are you vaccinated?
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6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:
Stop lying.
These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”
Lol.
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2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:
Yes, luck is all you have going for you.
COVID is going to be around for a long time, stay lucky.
Lol, as Professor Gilbert has said it will just become a common cold.
You got vaccinated for, well, what will be a common cold.
"These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”
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7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:
Let’s start with the unvaccinated who get infected keeping it to themselves.
Why, the vaccinated don't keep infections to themselves.
Or were you not aware that the vaccinated spread the virus?
In fact since the vaccines only protect 49% against the Delta variant 51% of the vaccinated will spread the virus, more than half.
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47 minutes ago, placeholder said:
Nothing in what what you quote from Professor Gilbert says that the virus becoming like the common cold is nearly at hand. "Eventually" does not mean "nearly".
Here's the Oxford dictionary's definition of "eventually"
"in the end, especially after a long delay, dispute, or series of problems."
Here's the Oxford dictionary's definiton of "nearly"
very close to; almost.
Do you understand the difference?
Stop making things up.
Obviously you missed the part where she says:
“If it changes its spike protein so much that it can’t interact with that receptor, then it’s not going to be able to get inside the cell. So there aren’t very many places for the virus to go to have something that will evade immunity but still be a really infectious virus,” she said.
"These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”
Either that or you don't understand what she's saying. She's saying the virus is running out of options, dangerous mutations are unlikely and it will be like a common cold.
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4 minutes ago, placeholder said:
Then why don't you share the quote with us? I shared 2 quotes from her from that same webinar that don't seem to jibe with your claim.
I already did, see above, where you'll find this:
"The new coronavirus is unlikely to mutate into a variant that can evade vaccines because there “aren’t very many places for the virus to go”, the creator of the Oxford jab has said.
Dame Sarah Gilbert, speaking yesterday on a Royal Society of Medicine webinar, played down fears of a more deadly new variant. “We normally see that viruses become less virulent as they circulate more easily and there is no reason to think we will have a more virulent version of Sars-CoV-2,” she said.
Gilbert suggested, however, that illness caused by the virus would become ever milder. She said: “We tend to see slow genetic drift of the virus and there will be gradual immunity developing in the population as there is to all the other seasonal coronaviruses.”
These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”
She argued that the spike protein targeted by vaccines had only limited ability to mutate while still allowing the virus to get inside human cells. “If it changes its spike protein so much that it can’t interact with that receptor, then it’s not going to be able to get inside the cell. So there aren’t very many places for the virus to go to have something that will evade immunity but still be a really infectious virus,” she said.
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1 minute ago, placeholder said:
It isn't a question of the paywall or the reliability of the Times.. It's a question of the accuracy of your representation of what Professor Gilbert said.
My quote of Gilbert was 100% accurate and supported by links. Kindly show where I misrepresented her, with an exact quote of what I said.
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14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:
You have no idea. Here is some data. Where is your data?
https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/09/16/how-common-is-long-covid-that-depends-on-how-you-measure-it/
From your own link:
"In today’s publication we used three different approaches to estimate the number of people experiencing long COVID symptoms. These show that between 3% and 12% of people infected with coronavirus have symptoms 12 weeks after the initial infection; or between 7% and 18% when considering only people who were symptomatic at the acute phase of infection."
So indeed, all under 20%. Do you even read your own links?
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18 minutes ago, ozimoron said:Right, just like the Spanish Flu, not really bad at all.
Yes, in fact this pandemic is very much like the Spanish Flu pandemic, which had 4 waves. Once we see the fourth wave for Covid most likely that will be the last one and the virus will become a common cold, as Gilbert said.
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16 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:
You have provided a link to a source that's behind a paywall. My trolldar is pinging like crazy.
Of course, everyone who subscribes to quality newspapers is a troll. Naturally.
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16 minutes ago, Someone Else said:
Of course you can quantify relative risk, that's what people do every day in the real world! You are just afraid to acknowledge a proper analysis because it doesn't bode well for your antivax theme.
" You can recover from covid easily". Some do some don't, many severe life-altering cases filling the ICUs, many more so than folks afflicted with the rare side effects from vaccines. To say each can't be quantified and analyzed is childish denialism.
No, the point rather is that if you were to be so unfortunate as to get a blood clot in the brain and have a stroke no amount of numbers vodoo would be a consolation, it's much harder to recover from a stroke than from what we are now told will be akin to a common cold.
In fact 80% of people who have Covid have a very mild course of illness or are even asymptomatic.
"The majority of those who test positive for COVID-19 will survive the disease and the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO) states that, based on available data, approximately 80% of those who test positive for COVID-19 experience a mild illness or are asymptomatic"
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext
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16 minutes ago, ozimoron said:
That leaves 20% who likely will suffer from long covid if they don't die. Long covid includes major organ damage and mental issues. The public health cost is going to be astronomical. You anti vaxxers just want to downplay the reality for political purposes.
Not at all. Most estimates for Long Covid are way below 20%, however, in reality nobody really knows.
The public health cost of not treating the much more numerous, much more serious health problems that have been put off to deal with, what we are now told will be a common cold, is in fact astronomical.
Those who hysterically hype Covid have done so at the cost of millions of people who did not get much needed operations and treatment for serious illnesses other than Covid.
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17 minutes ago, mikebike said:
No I do not know better. But I do understand the English language and hers was NOT a strong statement.
I also do not blindly believe authority figures and will suggest to you that waiting for peer-reviewed papers is a more pragmatic approach than blindly believing any authority figure who agrees with your preconceived notions.
Actually it was a very strong statement to say the virus was running out of options and will be like a common cold.
The writing is on the wall in terms of what the virus will become. If we've learned anything it's that it is never as bad as those who believe in worst case scenarios would have you believe.
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1 minute ago, placeholder said:
But, of course, you have to survive Covid, in order to benefit from being infected.
Yes, and indeed well over 92% of people who have Covid survive it. In fact 80% have a very mild or asymptomatic course of illness.
"The majority of those who test positive for COVID-19 will survive the disease and the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO) states that, based on available data, approximately 80% of those who test positive for COVID-19 experience a mild illness or are asymptomatic "
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext
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2 minutes ago, placeholder said:
You may not be twisting what Professor Gilvert said, but you are also not understanding it. The key word is "eventually".
Secondly, you may not be twisting what she says about the virus lessening in virulence over time, but you are misunderstanding it. The key word you don't seem to get is "eventually.". She notes that it's the tendency of pandemics to lessen in severity over time. Some day, covid will be like the common cold. That day has yet to come.
Not at all, I think you're not understanding what Gilbert said, she actually said the virus is running out of options. So the demotion to the common cold is very near at hand. It is not a very distant event 6000 years into the future.
Read the article again.
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1 minute ago, ozimoron said:
That's a misinterpretation of the data. The 49% is relative to an unvaccinated person and does not represent the probability of infection from exposure.
Of course its relative to an unvaccinated person, no misinterpretation at all. Again, the study was linked to, I'll do it again for you.
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4 minutes ago, mikebike said:
Gilbert "suggested" that it "tends" to reduce "eventually".
I'll wait for peer-reviewed papers rather than bank on her suggested, eventual, tendencies...
Thanks tho!!
Sure, you know better than Professor Gilbert, the inventor of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, of course.
How funny that all those who said it was like a common cold got shot-down by wise guys 18 months ago, only for top academic researchers now to turn around and say the same thing, Covid will be like getting a cold.
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6 minutes ago, placeholder said:
You're argument is standard of the doublethink of anti-covid vaxxers. On the one hand, you cite the small odds of being seriously ill with covid. On the other hand, you cite the vastly smaller odds of suffering a blood clot from vaccination. On top of which, not getting vaccinated puts you at greater risk for those blood clots.
You're more likely to get a blood clot after COVID infection than with the vaccine
The risks of getting a blood clot if you contract COVID-19 is far greater than if you receive the Pfizer-BioNTech and AstraZeneca vaccines, according to a new BMJ study.
The peer-reviewed study analyzed 30 million people vaccinated in England between December 2020 and April 2021. Researchers accounted for the hospitalization rates or death from blood clots, as well as other blood disorders, within 28 days of either a positive coronavirus test or receiving the first dose of the vaccine.
Again, clearly you fail to comprehend the simple fact that you can recover from Covid fairly easily, 80% of people who have it have mild or no symptoms. Whereas the odds of surviving a stroke from a blood clot in the brain are much smaller.
You can't reduce everything to numbers.
It's not just blood clots. Israeli researchers have found that Pfizer can cause heart inflammation. The EMA has just added a paralysis syndrome to the long list of side-effects and "adverse events".
If you want to run that risk on the off chance of getting something which 97.1% of the population don't have, and which Professor Gilbert, who invented Astra-Zeneca, said will be effectively like a common cold, then it's your life.
But don't pretend you can tell others what to do. Because it certainly looks like those who have decided not to vaccinate have made the right decision. If the virus is going to be like a common cold, if vaccines only protect 49% from infection but come with very serious side effects, and if natural immunity is stronger than vaccine immunity, why should anyone risk these very serious side-effects from the vaccinations?
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46 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:You twist my words which is no surprise as you've twisted what Gilbert has said as well in order to to support your anti-vaxxer drivel.
Lame.
I have not twisted what Professor Gilbert has said, I have in fact quoted it and provided the link to her statements.
You are in fact misrepresenting my posts, which is indeed lame.
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29 minutes ago, robblok said:
Don't worry about it if you follow the argument I have with him he is not even sure about what he wrote himself.
I'm very clearly about what I wrote:
1. Professor Sarah Gilbert, the inventor of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine has said that the virus will become more like a common cold:
"Gilbert suggested, however, that illness caused by the virus would become ever milder. She said: “We tend to see slow genetic drift of the virus and there will be gradual immunity developing in the population as there is to all the other seasonal coronaviruses.”
These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”
2. Natural immunity is longer lasting than vaccine induced immunity
"Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity."
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
3. Vaccines only provide 49% protection against infection from the Delta variant
"The researchers estimated that two doses of a Covid-19 vaccine are 49% effective at preventing infection with the delta variant, in line with recent data from Israel and much lower than previous estimates."
Given the fact that only 2.9% of the world population even have the virus, meaning 97.1% do not have the virus, and given data form the Lancet that of those who have the virus 80% only have a mild or asymptomatic course of illness, hospitalisation of those who have it is only required in 14.2% of cases, and of those only 2.2% have to go to the ICU it is very clear that the risk of dying of Covid is considerably smaller than initially reported.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00074-0/fulltext
Given that Professor Gilbert further underlines that the virus will be akin to the common cold indeed one has to conclude that those who have decided not to vaccinate got it right, and those who decided to vaccinate did so for very little protection against a very small risk, yet took on new risks.
Clearly those who decide not to vaccinate have come out on top.
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10 minutes ago, robblok said:
No i have not you state that 7.5% of those on ICU die do you deny writing what i underline and made bold ?
Sorry, I only speak English. Please try to maybe put your query in Dutch so I can understand it.
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6 minutes ago, robblok said:
You said 7.5% people in ICU died that was not the case it was 7.5% of all covid cases in this study. Must be embarrassing to have it wrong that badly.
Below what you stated
And even if you DO have to go to hospital, only 2.2% go to the ICU, and of those only 7.5% die, worst case
You have completely misrepresented my post. I wrote of those who go to hospital, ie of all hospitalised people 7.5% died, not those in the ICU only. It's not my fault if you can't read English, Roblok.
I quoted 7.5% quite clearly above, and obviously it was of all cases.
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13 minutes ago, robblok said:
He did not even read the links he provided himself. He totally misrepresented / lied about what was in it.
He did the same with the lady you quoted.
But its really embarrassing if you don't read the links you use as evidence.
They had a death rate of 7.5% there (IMHO quite high) and he kept banging on how low the risk was.
This is about on a par, as outrageous lies go, as your repeated call for those who do not want to vaccinate to die, but nobody takes that seriously anyway.
I had posted the links of all the statements I quoted quite carefully, nothing was misrepresented. You are misrepresenting my posts.
If you had read the Lancet study properly you would have seen "Therefore, analyses were restricted to confirmed cases with complete data on underlying conditions.", which explains why they had a 7.5% death rate, whereas globally it is 1.9-2%.
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15 minutes ago, Someone Else said:
"Do you not see how tiny the risk is? And for that you'd risk blood clot, stroke, paralysis, heart inflammation etc, of the "adverse effects" that we know, to say nothing of what may come in the future?"
But you haven't compared the relative risks of unvaccinated hospitalizations vs. vaccine side effects in an objective manner, which is the whole point. Case in point, you fail to quantitate the side effects and only chose to talk the most rare and dramatic. Your are the other misinformation peddlers rely heavily on such blatant cherry picking.
As I made clear, you can not recover from a stroke caused by a clot in your brain. It is a fallacy that you can weigh that up with quantification. You can recover from covid easily. You can not recover easily from a stroke caused by a blood clot in the brain. If you think the risk of a blood clot in the brain, paralysis, heart inflammation etc is to be quantified away I disagree.
That's why I told Roblok, it's not all about numbers. The seriousness of some of the side effects also needs to be considered.
Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?
in COVID-19 Coronavirus
Posted
No, she is specifically saying that the virus is going to be just like any of the other coronaviruses that cause the common cold:
"These other coronavirus are causes of the common cold and Gilbert said: “Eventually Sars-CoV-2 will become one of those.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-will-just-end-up-causing-a-cold-says-oxford-vaccine-creator-sarah-gilbert-npkds93zd#top
She is also saying that the virus will become less lethal, not more, as it mutates:
“We normally see that viruses become less virulent as they circulate more easily and there is no reason to think we will have a more virulent version of Sars-CoV-2,” she said.