AussieBob9999

He could be right. I know a guy that has gone 'feral' and become very 'Thai'. He lives in a remote village with his Thai wife and kids and they all like him - all he sees every day are friendly Thais - he is as happy as the proverbial pig. But that is not for me, as I love my golf and the 'luxuries' of life available in the bigger cities. But each to his/her own.

I like Thailand too - but to deny the truth is not a viable solution to the problem - that is the Thai way - they just let it all go. But to show you the truth - all it takes is google. Type 'dangerous sidewalks Thailand' and then click on 'Images' - there for all to see - including motorbikes riding on them - and blocked walks forcing people to walk on the road - and low hanging dangerous poles/awnings that hit Expats in head/eye - and lets not forget the electricity poles and wires everywhere. Then do it for Singapore - none of that - in that country it is all about trying to stop bicycle riders going too fast. Hey - I agree - it is what it is - but the fact is that TAT is saying they want only high quality rich tourists - but their 'product' does not suit that demographic - around SEAsia that is Singapore and Macau and maybe still Hong Kong. The Thailand tourism 'fit' has been for decades mainly about backpackers, value family tourists, adventurers, sexpats and retirees/expats - they should live with that and not drive them away. Sure there are some high end places in Thailand offering 5 star luxury resorts for the rich - but they aint coming in anywhere near the numbers they are claiming and they never will. Come on - think about it - you are a millionaire - you might try one of the exclusive 5 star resorts on a Thai island maybe - but you aint gonna do it again - not as much as Monaco, Maldives, St Kitts, Paris, New York, Hawaii, Aspen, Seychelles, etc etc etc. They are kidding themselves going for that market as their main target group.

I have a mate who is from Sweden - he did not live in Hua Hin, but he said the end of easy Visas did a lot of damage to those Scandinavians who wanted 6+6. That plus to general decline in Hua Hin, especially the golfing tours decline, lead to many leaving.

That makes sense and is probably right on the nose. TAT is all about the narrative, which is what the Govt wants to achieve - more Chinese tourists and less Western expats - but rich western tourists OK.

Ditto - except for the part about $3 mill Aus ????

Hua Hin? Lots of Scandinavian Expats have left there since 2015. When we were there looking at Golf Courses, one of the the Course Managers tried to sell me his house, as did a few others while we were there (2 weeks).

Just wait - if/when the tourist numbers get bigger, the TP system will collapse and they will then send it all back to the Embassies and wipe their hands of it. Personally I am waiting for that to happen, and also for the compulsory PCR test to be dropped, before I enter Thailand again. There is no way I am going to pay for my meal upfront, and then have to apply to enter the restaurant and wait outside. Likewise I aint going to risk spending 10-14 days in hospital for a 3-4 week trip - I agree that is worth it for returning Expats, Family reasons, and Business. I have heard - once you have done everything on TP, then you can apply again - and again. One bloke applied 6 times just to make sure. I believe that is why TP has had almost a million applications (which TAT of course says are all separate tourists), but far less have actually arrived.

Jingthing beat me to it - that review was not for retirement locations, it was done by Internations (mainly business people) through an online poll they did of their members at each location. If 90% of members in Taiwan said it was great and only 80% of Mexico said the same - Taiwan wins. How many Internations members in Taiwan - probably not a lot compared to say Singapore. International Living released their list and Thailand aint on it - mainly for Americans. https://internationalliving.com/the-best-places-to-retire/ An Australian site gave their cheapest list and again Thailand aint on it: https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/retirement/the-five-cheapest-countries-in-the-world-to-retire/ That site reckons 11,000 Aussies retire and move overseas every year. I imagine that number is about the same (relatively) in each western country. Does Thailand realise how many people are no longer looking at Thailand as an ideal place to retire in SEAsia - over 10 years ago they were at the top of nearly every list. I know that the current Govt doesn't want them - only the rich ones - but when will they realise what that policy is costing them - 2023 election maybe?

Very true. And my question is how do they know that amount - what methods do they use to count tourist expenditures while they are in the country. I guarantee they are not counting how much they spend with street vendors or local malls and markets or restaurants and bars etc. because there is no way they can count that. So what are they counting. TAT reckons Chinese tourists spend more than any other tourists - how do they know that. I reckon their spending numbers are as valid as their arrivals numbers - fantasies created to suit their narrative.

Yes mate - I have heard the same sort of stuff about Vietnam - thanks for sharing that info. In 2020 there were 4 times the number of TripAdvisor and Expedia searches for Vietnam than for Thailand - that had never happened before - Thailand was always number 1. When you now do a web search of best places to retire - Thailand is no longer on many of the lists - back in 2009 Thailand was always 1 or 2. And when it comes to tourist destinations searches - Vietnam (Ha Long Bay) is always listed ahead of anywhere in Thailand - and so is Cambodia (Anghor Wat). Things have changed - Thailand has competition for all segments of the market and if they think wealthy tourists going to Phuket and Samui are going to 'save' Thailand tourism, they are very much mistaken. Take a good look around the golf courses of Hua Hin - they are a disaster overall. Except for Banyan and Black Mountain and the military course, they are all run down and very shabby. Most places that look OK (we visited them all) are just keeping up appearances - they are struggling and have been since 2017. What was once the premier location for golf tourists in SEAsia and won many of the awards - is a crumbling ruin of what it once was. Greg Norman is building lots of golf courses in Vietnam - I believe that he aint built one in Thailand for over 20 years and that says something (and no one else has much either - just a few -makeovers and renames). That same thing has been happening all over Thailand in all market segments - what was once the best and most popular place in SEAsia has been in decline since 2016. Sure there are still the few gems in places like Phuket and Samui and Bangkok and Chiang Mai (and many of the past Pattaya still exists) - but overall things have been declining for Thailand in the tourist market. But unlike the Vietnam tourism industry, they aint listening to customer feedback - they just cannot accept criticism - positive or not.

Very true mate. But the nature of Thailand will not change, and that is the problem and always will be. When I was staying at a place in Chiang Mai when looking out the balcony there was an old Thai style house next door with a rundown garden etc. One day Thai blokes arrived and started cleaning up the yard and removing the old rubbish. Then they started on the house. They did not clean it - they did not prepare it - they just painted a bright lacquer straight over the old wood - everything was dodgy and not done well. They did the same for everything - it was all about looking good - not fixing and upgrading it properly. The boss saw me looking on a few days - he thought I was interested - he came over one day and said '5 million baht' - I politely declined with a smile as you have to do. I did not say that the work they had done was total khrapp and I was looking because I could not believe how bad a job they were doing. I also did not say that the house would be terrible in 1-2 years, and that all of the appliances were cheap rubbish, and that I doubted the plumbing and electricity would last a year without needing major upgrades. My point is that the same applies for many of the 'tourist places' built in Thailand - it was all about how they look - maintenance and repairs and upgrades are just not something that is done in Thailand - anyone who lived there a while knows that. Things have been going downhill for a long time - since the 90s - add the takeover and subsequent policies - and then add the pandemic - things are not good and not going to get good for a long time. Millionaires visiting Phuket and Samui and paying for easy long term Visas, aint gonna fix the problems with Thailand tourism (and economy).

Yes mate - they are the main ones who are going back at the moment (plus Expats, Family and Business people). Those are the tourists and expats that the Govt has been trying to get rid of (sexpats and sextourists). But in trying to get rid of that type of tourist and expat, they have removed and/or alienated the largest part of their 'average' tourist and expat 'market'. There has been a lot of Aussie Expats who came back to Australia, and are not looking to go back there anytime soon. Same for most western countries. Some went to Vietnam - some to Philippines - some Bali - some are waiting to see what happens because they love Thailand and/or have a Thai partner (like me).

Agree 100%. It was why I chose Thailand over Philippines over 10 years ago. Vietnam is positioning itself to take up that role. Covid brought out their 'military mentality' - but if they go back to their previous 'business mentality' they have a great opportunity to succeed in the lower/middle class tourist and Expat - who outnumber the others by a long way. Likewise, Malaysia is making a big push for the middle class Expat - they have a great Visa program with lots of incentives. Indonesia have blown it with their approach (also going for the high enders) - when Bali is deserted by the 'ordinary' Aussies they will (maybe) regret that decision and change their minds.

I think change will only happen after the 2023 elections if/when the current Govt is voted out. They clearly have an ideal Thailand in their delusional minds that is not what it was, or is, or ever will be - and that certainly does not involve Expats or western tourists. It would certainly help remove them if the numbers of tourists after Covid do not increase anywhere near the numbers that they have been stating - another reason I am reluctant to visit. TAT is not what they say they are - TAT is the Government mouthpiece for all the great things they are doing related to tourism. And when they dont work out, they merely change the narrative and provide more rhetoric such as: 1 million tourists by end 2021 because of the Govt's great job in opening up Phuket etc etc etc. Reality then arrives - and they just completely ignore that ridiculous statement (like all before them) and release more delusional rhetoric. Because what they are really all about is being a PR arm for the Government. This Government has 'politically weaponised' all Departments in the Government - TAT is just one of the most vocal. Very rare 'dissent' or criticism from any public servant is severely dealt with - demotion and re-assignment. If the current Govt is re-elected, then things will only get worse for western tourists and Expats.

Me too - and not you again.