SlowRida

On 12/19/2021 at 1:00 PM, papa al said:

Maybe use 1/2 heavier and 1/2 lighter weights.?

I might try that eventually, but yeah, basically I'm trying to get the engine to rev a bit more at a given speed so it doesn't lug itself. Just that the clutch can't handle it at lower speeds lol

3 hours ago, bbko said:

A few years ago my brother-in-law bought a new 125cc motorbike and decided to start replacing parts in an attempt to make it faster, after several months the thing was junk, hard to start, always needing adjustments, not a smooth ride anymore.  Always replacing parts in an attempt to get it back to normal. Somethings are best left to the pros.

Made engine adjustments probably? I wouldn't go that far, unless i actually had an entire service center's worth of tools and equipment with me, as well as a second bike

3 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

#1 Clutch shudder is normally caused by dust in the clutch. caused by being ridden too cautiously. But since you have had the whole thing apart the dust may have been cleaned out.

 

#2 You have changed too many things at once. So which bits made what difference we don't know. We don't have Vario here? So I will assume the same as a Click 125 which uses the old PCX 125 engine.

Stock weights are 15g or 17g on the newer ESP set up. Conventional thinking says 85-90% for a bit more get up and go. So 12g or 13g should do the trick. With stock spring. Engine produces max torque at 5000rpm so for uphill work the engine should be kept at that. 

 

#3 800 rpm counter spring? I have never really figures out what means. 800 rpm clutch springs OK.  That should mean that the clutch engages at 800 rpm which would be about 800x2.85=2280 rpm which seems a bit low to me. My Zoomer (110) stall, as I bought it, was 3150. So 1000rpm higher than yours. Now it is 5300 which is better for uphill 2-up. ( max torgue at 6500). I am using Dr. Pulley variator and 11g weights all else is stock.

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#4 I don't have any experience with NYC. It has a slightly smaller included angle at 28 degrees vs 30. but is the same diameter as stock . Or used to be. Whether it is machined, like Dr.Pulley/J.Costa to allow the weights to be more recessed at rest, lower gearing, I do not know. Did NYC come with a longer bushing than stock or shorter? Use the longest one.

Thanks for the info, but yeah, the shudders started as soon as i dropped roller weights and kept all others stock. The current setup works fine but the roller weights actually ended up being too heavy (probably because of the pulley), almost like having 16 or 17 grams on the stock pulley (15 is stock)

I appreciate it though, i might just end up going the easy way and slapping higher rated clutch springs so it fully engages at speeds that no longer slips. 

3 hours ago, papa al said:

Many tens of thousands of riders do just fine w/ stock transmission

in the  Click/Vario

that top Honda engineers specified...

Shocking that you attempt to re-engineer

disappoints.?

I do know what the problem is, I'm just trying to find if people had actually solved the issue of the trans allowing for more torque than what the clutch could effectively transfer at low speed. Basically matching the engine speed at low speed to the capacity of the clutch by finding the right combinations, it'll eventually show itself, but asking at a forum is much easier lol.

Also stock  is mostly fine, especially for relatively flat and open areas. But for my use case, which necessitates frequent stops and a sudden steep ascents and long stretches with shallow gradients, I'd prefer a more prompt 0-50 rather than the stretched out acceleration of the stock config, as well as a bit more revs to hold the speed steady rather than lugging it and needing to pump the throttle often. The stock config would definitely be ok, I'm just trying to find my ideal configuration that doesn't necessitate constant 50% throttle. Top speed is also not too important for me, others tinker with the cvt to eke out more top speed, bit I'd be fine if it tops out at 90 if it could reach it sooner. 80 is the legal limit lol.

I do realize that a more powerful motorcycle or a manual transmission would solve my problems, but yeah it is what it is

I am often very gentle on the throttle, but i do want better take off rather than just slipping the clutch and lugging the engine on uphills so i changed some parts of the cvt, particularly the roller weights (15-14 grams). Now the whole scoot shudders when feathering the throttle at 8-11 kph. I switched back to stock configuration and the shudder is gone, now it just slips way too much at takeoff.

Currently i have the ncy variator w/ 14 grams as well as ncy clutch with 800rpm clutch spring and contra spring, the shudder is there but it is not very noticeable, but the gearing feels too high for hills so i intend to either increase the contra spring rate or decrease variator weight.

I had the feeling that the shudder is because the engine is quite torquey at low rpms, and that same torque is wasted on clutch slip hence the reason why I'm changing parts 

Any ideas how i can switch to lower variator weights without having shudders?