jope

No one with any power is going to jail or paying a penalty, Democrat or PTP. Seems the courts and the Junta have decided that the best way to achieve peace and reconciliation is to let everyone walk. I'm not particularly upset about it, a lot of things may change, but not for the rich and powerful, business as usual for them.

"the Junta have decided that the best way to achieve peace and reconciliation is to let everyone walk. I'm not particularly upset about it......"

Right, so you're not upset about....an amnesty! Were you saying this six months ago? Or would you have gone along with an amnesty for everyone except Thaksin?

Would you rather Tarit was in jail, as he should be, or Yingluck banned for 5 years? I would, but it isn't going to happen, the powers that be have made a decision. Was I saying it six months ago, no, but perhaps it is for the best. Amnesty for Thaksin, as far as I'm concerned he should be drawn and quartered for what he has done to this country. Anything else?

Thaksin has done many things to this country, I'll leave you to quote your own favourites, Here's part of my list for a bit of balance;

• Shown that the old Royalist elite can be challenged.
• Taught the rural Thai populace that their votes do matter. (while there is a democracy anyway)
• Introduced (flawed) universal healthcare and extended it to cover foreign workers
• Stimulated a pride in community in some of the most depressed parts of Thailand.
• Introduced a realistic National Minimum wage and accessible low interest loans which has lifted many workers and farmers out of abject poverty (to just moderate poverty?).
• Helped Thailand recover from the 1997 financial crisis and repaid early its debt to the IMF
• Balanced the National budget and reduced public sector debt
• Introduced scholarships for children from impoverished backgrounds to study overseas
• Reduced state control of the media by privatising TV companies
• Decentralised education by removing schools from the MoE to tambon organisations
• Increased access to universities for lower income students through a student loan system
• Introduced far reaching renewable energy and energy conservation policies
• Reformed the ministerial structure of Government for the first time since the 1890s to focus onperformance and results.

Much of the best of these reforms and achievements were promptly reversed by the 2006 junta but the top 5 in the list are still there.

Some posters here wear blinkers and only ever mention his failings and failures, but Thaksin is THE most influential ELECTED leader Thailand ever had and with his well selected and competent cabinet achieved more positives for Thailand in two terms of office than the current bunch would be capable of

in 2 decades - and unfortunately we may be about to witness that over the next 18 years or so.

“Taught the rural Thai populace…”

Or bought?

Ah, finally, the vote-buying-myth. It will not die. It is simply a too convenient tool to deny millions of people their right to take part in the political process.

Is Norway involved in this as well?

If not they should be ?

Nice try, but next time better get your geography in order.

For Americans, Norway, Sweden, and Finland are all one place in the mind. But you're right, Stockholm is not Mecca either.

Bonus points for not ducking out.

Used to show passport all the time travelling in Europe in those good old days, no problem, kind of was exciting.

Yes, it was so exciting to sit in the car for hours until we reached the border control, even when just traveling from Germany to Austria or Holland.

And these exciting news on the radio when they announced the hours or days that truck drivers had to wait until they finally could continue delivering their freight to a neighboring country.

That's a new one: Merkel was member of the Stasi? [emoji1]

Do you know her Stasi-alias? I would really like to know. [emoji23]

The most popular claim is that it was Erika. The story seems to have been around for some time.

Thanks.

A brief look at the "sources" and everybody knows how serious the accusations are.

Israel investigates and indicts two murderers who are Israelis. I wonder how Palestine authorities would handle such a case...

Actually, refugee status is usually conferred on everyone in a particular household. Thus, you can have more than just parents and children. It may include grandparents as well as others. The trick is to actually show that they were all apart of the same household. It's not uncommon for people to try to 'sneak' a cousin or two and the occasional aunt.

If you can provide evidence that it was one household, then they are all allowed resettlement.

The legal situation in Germany is rather clear: "family" means closest family members, i.e. spouse and under age children.

Exceptions are possible, but attempts to bring in further family members prove difficult (i.e. close to impossible).

I do not know whether that violates international law, e.g. the Refugee Convention. I guess we have to wait for someone to sue and see how the courts (maybe even in Strasbourg) see it. But right now it is clearly established: just the "core family".

Most of the time, outside of the country where they are being resettled, the 'core family' would include all members of the household. The situation arises, for example, that the minor children of a deceased relative are living with the family. The child is not legally adopted, but culturally, it is a custom for the family to care for the child. He would be allowed, under most circumstances, to go with the rest of the family.

The same thing happens with household members who may be disabled.

The situation in Europe is a little different because they have generally already arrived. But just like the West, they do have anomalies and 'blended' families.

Probably examples where also German authorities might be willing to grant respective visas. Problem being: how to prove such extraordinary situations? And even if there was paperwork done: as my late parents once told me, it is not uncommon that documents get lost in the time of war. I'd say that it depends on numbers. If there are some very extraordinary and believable cases here and there, they will probably be handled generously. If suddenly everyone claims to have adopted a dozen children even that might change. But again, I do not see millions of family members waiting to invade and take over Europe.

That is the lemon next to the pie. Wait until 2030, when all extended family members have arrived to claim their "jizya"(tax infidels must pay to their islamic masters) or welfare as Europeans call it. It is probably illegal to show the estimated cost of this, and after a weeks suspension it's not worth it, the info is out there for anyone interested. Their block votes against the divided caucazoid votes will also yield surprising results for the left, females and homosexuals at the same time.

There will be no "extended family members", if at all, family means spouse and children, that's it.

Liked the European notion in your post, though.

Why should ANY family members be allowed to join them? They abandoned them to a fate they did not want to accept themselves- b****y cowards. Either they should have travelled together, or they should be treated as separate individuals and put into separate camps. Put them together and they will be popping out new babies as fast as possible for the western states to support.

Why are our so called leaders so stupid that they can't see what they are doing with their moronic strategy of taking them into Europe, instead of supporting them in Turkey at a fraction of the price they will cost in Euro, plus no social disruption in Euro?

Is Merkel "outlining" how she is destroying the fabric of her own country? I would guess not.

Art. 6 of the German Constitution protects marriage and family. So, legally there is no choice. Emotionally, everybody has the right to think that refugees should not be together with their spouses and children (I know, I know, no refugees but invaders an' all).

Regarding the high percentage of young males among the refugees: I guess, in most cases it's an economic decision. The family (read: Daddy) decided that the most suitable candidate of the family, usually a son, has to make the journey to support the rest of the family. Sounds strange to us, as we would probably bring the most vulnerable of our family into safety. But economically it makes sense. I doubt that it was easy for these young men to leave their family behind in a war situation. They certainly did not volunteer for that.

That brings us to the number of spouses and children that we can expect to see arriving in Germany. Right now, there are only estimates and none of these estimates are substantiated by reliable facts and figures. But looking at the age of the young men, I doubt that many of them already have wives and children. So, again, no reason to panic. There will be fewer people than we suspect.

And I completely and totally agree, that the refugees should have been supported in the countries they first fled to. I have no idea how the UNHCR could run out of funds. I hope that teaches us a lesson. Give UNHCR the money they need and everybody wins. Out of personal experience I know that they are highly professional and they know what they are doing.

Actually, refugee status is usually conferred on everyone in a particular household. Thus, you can have more than just parents and children. It may include grandparents as well as others. The trick is to actually show that they were all apart of the same household. It's not uncommon for people to try to 'sneak' a cousin or two and the occasional aunt.

If you can provide evidence that it was one household, then they are all allowed resettlement.

The legal situation in Germany is rather clear: "family" means closest family members, i.e. spouse and under age children.

Exceptions are possible, but attempts to bring in further family members prove difficult (i.e. close to impossible).

I do not know whether that violates international law, e.g. the Refugee Convention. I guess we have to wait for someone to sue and see how the courts (maybe even in Strasbourg) see it. But right now it is clearly established: just the "core family".

That is the lemon next to the pie. Wait until 2030, when all extended family members have arrived to claim their "jizya"(tax infidels must pay to their islamic masters) or welfare as Europeans call it. It is probably illegal to show the estimated cost of this, and after a weeks suspension it's not worth it, the info is out there for anyone interested. Their block votes against the divided caucazoid votes will also yield surprising results for the left, females and homosexuals at the same time.

There will be no "extended family members", if at all, family means spouse and children, that's it.

Liked the European notion in your post, though.

quote from UNHCR "according to the official commentary of the Ad Hoc Committee on Statelessness and Related Problems (E/1618, p. 40) the rights granted to a refugee are extended to members of his family,"

I wish your assertion was true, but sadly it is the case that one single migrant could in theory bring in dozens and dozens of his/her family members with the full entitlement to life on welfare for eternity for all. The 2 million odd economic migrants that arrived in Germany 2015 could swell to be a number around 30 million in just a few years time after family reunification which is an essential part of their "human rights". Nauseating.

Posts removed to enable reply.

In Germany positively vetted refugees are entitled to family reunion with their spouse and unmarried children less than 18 years of age. Family reunion with other family members may be granted, provided that the refugee is able to support him/herself and provide accommodation for the additional family members i.e. no welfare support.

As has been posted a number of times, which you consistently ignore, approx 40% of those entering Germany are identified as economic refugees or originating from 'safe countries'. The Germans have updated their laws to more easily enforce declined applicants removal from their territory.

Don't know where you got your figure of 2 million economic refugees entering Germany in 2015, presumably a figure from your imagination.

If a family member has been granted refugee status, on what grounds can the same status be refused to his family? (not talking about special personal cases)

As Mutti Merkel's right hand man Dr Schaueble likes to say "Elections can not be allowed to change anything".

Very soon the EU will operate as a super state, controlled by Brussels, and individual member states election results will have to be "approved". More and more a German dominated EU begins to look and act like the Warsaw Pact. And who was a member of the DDR secret state police - good old Mutti Merkel.

A socialist utopia, multicultural, where anything Christian is frowned upon and discouraged whilst Muslims are free to follow their own religion and laws. The Muslim countries were always friendly with the old Soviet Union and their Warsaw pact Empire. Surprise surprise, Mutti has facilitated millions of Muslim migrants into EU and wants to dictate to other countries how many they must accept. And of course these "new citizens" should be given the right to vote and all vote federal socialist.

Denmark, UK, Poland, some of the Eastern states can see this and are beginning to oppose it. Of course the EU will fight back through Juncke the puppet and his bureaucrats. 2016 could be the year EU suddenly finds itself breaking up and with the sad possibility of some violence. The imposition of "EU Border Guards" on member states without their agreement would be the first step to a new EU Military - all under the control of Juncke and his boss Mutti Merkel; and supported by Muslim extremists.

That's a new one: Merkel was member of the Stasi? [emoji1]

Do you know her Stasi-alias? I would really like to know. [emoji23]

"There is no question that the influx of so many people will still demand more from us."--

Yes, especially your money, you foolish woman. About 17 billion euros, it appears, for this year alone.

Germany's federal states are planning to spend around 17 billion euros (12.6 billion pounds) on dealing with the refugee crisis in 2016, the newspaper Die Welt said on Tuesday, citing a survey it conducted among their finance ministries. The sum, bigger than the 15.3 billion euros that the central government planned to allocate to its education and research ministry in 2015, is a measure of the strain that the influx is causing across the country as a whole.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-migrants-germany-costs-idUKKBN0UC02820151229

That is the lemon next to the pie. Wait until 2030, when all extended family members have arrived to claim their "jizya"(tax infidels must pay to their islamic masters) or welfare as Europeans call it. It is probably illegal to show the estimated cost of this, and after a weeks suspension it's not worth it, the info is out there for anyone interested. Their block votes against the divided caucazoid votes will also yield surprising results for the left, females and homosexuals at the same time.

There will be no "extended family members", if at all, family means spouse and children, that's it.

Liked the European notion in your post, though.

I wonder if he was really an ethnic German. They are usually more conscientious and meticulous about these things.

Yes he was.

In hospital his mates claimed that he had fallen down the stairs. When questioned by the police they admitted that their fiend's death "had something to do with the exploded condom machine"

On a less funny note: he had a 6-year old daughter.

Anymore proof needed that Germany has become harmless over the last 70 years?

" Teachers groups in Germany have also said the book should be studied – albeit in a critical way – to the horror of those who survived Nazi atrocities "

This is to show that no matter how long it has passed and atonements and amends Germany has made

in the last 70 years, there will always be those seeds of the vile Nazi past still alive and kicking

somewhere....

No doubt about that. I was posted to Germany for 4 years in the mid-80s. Used to go drinking with my landlord and his buddies now and then. They were in their mid-30s for the most part, born well after the war ended, but the "master race" ideology wasn't hard to see, especially after a few beers. They weren't above tossing a few Nazi salutes around either if they didn't think anyone outside their circle would see them. Just ordinary people, truck drivers, butchers, shop owners but they shared a distinct dislike for East German "defectors" and immigrants. (This was back in the mid-late 80s remember.)

If it wasn't for their laws, their sentiments (and actions) would be a lot more prevalent and I don't doubt that it wouldn't take much for that "nationalist spirit" to start gaining momentum (again), especially if they start having problems with their latest influx of economic immigrants. A lot of angry youth (and others) in that country, like the proverbial powder keg just waiting for a spark.

I don't think Mein Kampf will change things too much. The ultra-rights and neo-Nazis probably already have all the copies they could ever want already. Just like the "Communist Manifesto" by Marx/Engels it probably won't get a lot of mainstream attention anymore. (Unless the media keep publicizing it.)

Just to put your experience into perspective: in 1987 the NPD ended up at 0,6 % of the votes, elections in 2013 had all right wing parties together under 2 %.

Opinion polls see the newest right wing party AfD at 9 %. I seriously doubt that they can keep their voters once the refugee situation is under control, and 9 % for a new party is quite the motivation for the old (and democratic!) parties to get things done.

Six months, and what then? More delay? No decision takes six months.

How long does it take in your country for a law to pass the legal process until it finally goes into force?

One heck of a lot of migrants or refugees can pass through the borders in 6 months and that's what they call a "rapid exam" of the scheme. And if they decide to create this border guard it would probably take another 6+ months to create and deploy it.

Good luck with that.

Contrary to the common EU-hater's belief, it is not possible for any member state to order something and then have it the next day. Instead, 28 member states must come to an agreement and must vote on it. So, I think six months is rather speedy.

It seems, a new universal scapegoat was successfully created. If you like to comment, just scream "asylum seeker", no further explanation needed.

According to "Der Spiegel", Belgian newspaper "Le Soir" reports that two terrorists are dead, one police officer is hurt.

"Der Spiegel" refers to French TV-stations when reporting that various Police Officers have been hurt. People living in the area hear heavy gun fire.

German newspapers reported that somebody believed to have seen Salah Abdeslam, a suspect in the Paris terrorist attacks. Police approached the man who was accompanied by two women only to find out that it was not Abdeslam. In the afternoon police arrested four more persons, but Abdeslam was not among them. I guess, all that does not count as "ethnic profiling".

BTW: All persons were released later that afternoon.

The was a historically significant act of war of Islamists against the entirety of western civilization.

Charlie Hebdo could be "explained" and more marginalized as revenge against a provocative satirical magazine and also the usual Jew hatred (muddied by conflating all the Jews in the world as active soldiers of the state of Israel).

So the general public could still feel, well it's only about "them" those others that provoke the Islamists and of course Jews who are widely hated anyway.

They could choose not to provoke the Islamists with cartoons and Jews, who really cares about Jews?

This is different. Bigger. This is a message for ALL of us in the world who are NOT Islamists.

I think this change in tactics was intentional and this message was intentional. It's not only about free speech cartoons, it's not only about Jews ...

they're after ALL of us.

Message received.

Brilliant post!

Only if by "Islamist" he means "Islamist terrorists" rather than all Muslims.

Even if he does, it's a shame that he spoils his argument by implying that no one cared about the Charlie Hebdo murders because we are all anti Semitic!

Particularly as Charlie Hebdo is not a Jewish magazine, nor, as far as I am aware, were either of it's founders Jewish. The magazine describes itself as secular and atheist!

So, that is the new "unmentionable", the Jews? Mentioning Jews next to other victims is "spoiling" an argument? The Charlie Hebdo murder victims were real, the others to be ignored, or what???

The effect that ISIS wants is to bait the west into fighting them in the Levant. It's working. What choice?

Agree, let isis take over a city then nuke them. It may be the only way.

I posted in the other thread, nuke the whole middle east, muslims, christians, Israel, the lot. Nothing but trouble.

Wonder if I sound radical enough for some posters on here. But I do believe it is the only way, the whole lot, gone.

Not as easy as it sounds. The middle east is too close to Europe, that would suffer the affects of the fall out. This is why Germany wasn`t nuked in the war.

1.)

2.) Germany had to give up before the first bomb was ready to be dropped. That is the only reason why Germany got away. Targets were already marked on the map. (off topic, I know, but too wrong to be left unanswered)

The effect that ISIS wants is to bait the west into fighting them in the Levant. It's working. What choice?

Agree, let isis take over a city then nuke them. It may be the only way.

I posted in the other thread, nuke the whole middle east, muslims, christians, Israel, the lot. Nothing but trouble.

Wonder if I sound radical enough for some posters on here. But I do believe it is the only way, the whole lot, gone.

It took me a second.

Unfortunately, there are people on this forum who would actually believe that you meant what you said ... and would applaud.