onzestan

He has lied repeatedly to the stewards

Repeatedly? Really?

Just to make my position clear plse read following article : http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9159.html

in which the FIA states that Hamilton lied on march 29th to the stewards, and again on april 2nd at a new hearing by the stewards.

No malice intended.

Onzestan

I don't think anything that Schumacher did serves in any way as a defence for what Lewis has done, but i think it's natural when someone has broken the rules to look at past examples and how they were dealt with. Of course the examples are very different in nature but they do concern a lack of sportsmanship and a lack of ethics.

When Schumacher parked his car up in the middle of the track in Monaco during qualifying and said that it stalled due to a mysterious problem with his car, despite telemetry saying otherwise, did he lie to the FIA as Hamilton has done? I think yes but maybe it's hard to prove - or maybe because he was Schumacher and he was in a Ferrari the FIA didn't want to make a meal out of it.

As far as the car versus driver argument goes - of course the car has a great bearing on it - can't believe anyone would say otherwise. The best guage of skill in a driver is to compare them with their team-mate.

Here you go again looking for excuses for Hamilton. Is this maybe because he's british?

He has lied repeatedly to the stewards and you don't have to believe me, just read the articles on formula1.com.

As to your other point to compare teammates is invalid if team orders have been issued, of which McLaren (just ask David Coulthard)has been guilty of repeatedly, as has Ferrari in the Schumacher era.

And no I'm not a Schumacher fan, far from it, but again he has absolutely nothing to do with the integrity of Lewis Hamilton.

And I don't believe one minute that he's sorry for what he did, he's sorry for having been caught.

End of my rant.

No malice intended

Onzestan

Just a few thoughts on the F1 season so far in view of what some posters on this topic have expressed.

This is entirely my point of view so feel free to disagree.

Martin Whitmarsh found it necessary to bring Schumacher in to his defence of Hamilton, as have different posters here.

Contrary to what has been said, Michael Schumacher and or his behaviour on and of the racetracks has absolutely no bearing on Hamilton's behaviour.

Hamilton lied to the stewards, and if this was on orders or not is not important. It shows a lot about his integrity as a person.

Those of you that claim that the car makes little or no difference, just look at the final standings of season 2008.

Jenson Button 3 points - Rubens Barrichello 11 points, total 14 points.

How many points do they have now after 1 and a half race, right 25 points. Case closed.

After all what has happened with McLaren in the last few years, and now this I hope the F1 throws the book at them, and I'm not talking about monetary fines.

Just my 2 cents.

No malice intended.

Onzestan

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

I had not read this before submitting my last post.

I find your above statement very insulting and would like you to retract it.

My post wasn't aimed at you. It was a general observation as to the politics of the Daily Mail. If you took unintended offence then I apologise. You'll note that I made the post in order to explain the agenda of the Daily Mail. The Daily Mail is a scurrilous rag which tells half truths in order to stoke xenophobia.

I'm not the only one that interpreted you're remark for what I found it to be. Not for it's general content but for your final remark I highlighted. Read Garro's post.

Anyway this whole topic has strengthened my belief that PC maybe has had it's use, but that it's impossible to argue with the PC-crowd.

Apologies accepted, and this really is my last contribution to this topic, and maybe to the whole forum.

onzestan

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

I had not read this before submitting my last post.

I find your above statement very insulting and would like you to retract it.

For your information I'm not British and I don't care about the reputation of a British tabloid, but I do resent your implication that I'm a staunch supporter of Hitler and the Nazis.

2 family members of mine have been killed fighting the Germans, and another one was executed by the Gestapo because of being a member of the Belgian resistance, so don't you dare telling me what you just said.

If that's your way of being PC then I'm glad I don't belong to that group.

onzestan

Isn't it a bit ironic that somebody against too much PC would now turn out to be against free speech if it concerns himself.

If implying that I have Nazi sympathies is the only way for the PC crowd to defend their PC-ness against my arguments then I pity you.

I wonder if you would dare tell me the above to my face.

onzestan

For those of you that don't know the UK newspaper scene very well during the 1930s the Daily Mail and its proprietor Lord Rothermere were staunch supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. Quoting from it is a bit of an own goal.

I had not read this before submitting my last post.

I find your above statement very insulting and would like you to retract it.

For your information I'm not British and I don't care about the reputation of a British tabloid, but I do resent your implication that I'm a staunch supporter of Hitler and the Nazis.

2 family members of mine have been killed fighting the Germans, and another one was executed by the Gestapo because of being a member of the Belgian resistance, so don't you dare telling me what you just said.

If that's your way of being PC then I'm glad I don't belong to that group.

onzestan

OK, now I also have 2 board-members against me, so I'll refrain from posting on this topic.

Just one more question and that will be the end of it as far as I'm concerned.

What is politically correct about defending PC at all costs, ignoring valuable arguments and even proof of the fact that it has gone to far?

onzestan

Here in UK no one has stopped putting up trees, wishing each other merry Christmas, putting up decorations, singing the carols, doing the nativity in schools etc so I wonder what countries the anti-pc folks claim they have been restricted?

Also read my first post on this topic, I was referring to the school in Germany where the children of my sister in law attend.

I've seen the pamphlet and at that time I didn't know that some people would imply that I'm lying or I would have taken a copy.

No malice intended

onzestan

Here in UK no one has stopped putting up trees, wishing each other merry Christmas, putting up decorations, singing the carols, doing the nativity in schools etc so I wonder what countries the anti-pc folks claim they have been restricted?

Sorry to disappoint you Boo : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...t-festival.html

cheers

onzestan

Well this conversation seems stuck on the level that those who support respect for minorities are Nazis. A shameful thing to say. I hate to spoil the rosy picture that some people on this forum have of the Nazi regime, but the Nazis were not in the business of trying to change people's minds. They quickly executed anyone who they even suspected of thinking differently. But please feel free to continue because other than name calling there doesn't seem to much else left in your arguments.

I agree with what you are saying about the nazi's, where my family and my country have suffered under their regime.

Once again I have no problem with the gist of PC being against racism in any form, as am I since before the advent of PC just because of my christian conscience and the way I was raised by my parents and the schools I attended.

My problem is, that it has gone to far, and has now become a one way street.

If I have to respect others, why can't I ask the same for me and my traditions, and I'm not talking about the right to say what I want, but about having a traditional (for centuries) christmas tree with all the trimmings in front of town hall.

That tree is NOT there to offend other religions but to celebrate the birth of Jesus, and the promotion of peace on earth.

onzestan

I have followed this topic with interest, and after first deciding to stay out of it, I now feel I have something more to say.

Both Garro and Guesthouse claim that PC has brought chance for the better, I say they’re wrong. What PC has done is made people more aware of the differences amongst them, and also providing them with a platform to get their way against democratic values. It is also true that PC has made it possible for small pressure groups, and/or groups of leftist lawyers, to exploit PC to get financial gain by attacking perceived racism, even if it’s against publications made more than 60 years ago.

I claim that the good trend of diminishing racism would have come anyway, regardless of PC, because of the enormous leaps in global communications, the growing number of persons visiting foreign countries and the confrontations with different cultures, amongst others.

It might have taken longer, but we will never know don’t we?

What I find most disturbing about PC is that so-called PC advocates think they are the only ones that have seen the truth, and we all know where such ideas lead too don’t we.

And Guesthouse can you please stop treating me in your condescending way and next time reply to some of my legitimate questions. You admit having been wrong before, who says you are right this time?

No malice intended

onzestan

Maybe the odd school here and there is not having a Christmas Service this year, but then the 'supporters' at football games are no longer hurling racial abuse and bananas at black players any more. Undoubtedly some miss the fun of all this and feel it a restriction on their freedoms.

Take the kids the the church for the Christmas service, they can enjoy it there. You can even enjoy taking your kids to the football game these days.

I think you have a problem with christianity, my country has been predominantly christian for ages, so much so that christianity is entwined in all walks of life, traditions, behaviour, rule of law and even in our food.

Not having the possibility to witness or be part of a traditional christmas party in your school, because some people of other faith might be offended is going to far I believe. They have a choice to not attend.

I ask you what is offensive about children enjoying a chrismas atmosphere, if these same children have to eat Halal food in the school cantina. I would agree if both options are available so the children have a choice, but they don't, it's Halal or nothing.

And as for not imposing signs of your faith to people of other persuasions I ask you who is the guilty part?

And don't you think that comparing a football game to a traditional christmas celebration which happens only once a year is taking it a bit to far. Afterall isn't christmas supposed to be about peace on earth?

Merry Christmas

onzestan

I guess that one good thing about the PAD protestors at the airport was that flights in/out of Thailand are now empty so airlines are discounting their fares to fill their flights. Latest example: Qatar Airways. You can get an air ticket to Europe for just THB 20,120 (excl taxes). Valid to all Qatar Airways destinations in Europe. The air ticket is valid for one month.

[reason for edit:url removed]

Just returned (yesterday) from Europe with Qatar.

I can tell you that the plane was packed, not a single seat available.

cheers

onzestan

I wonder how many people who are complaining about alleged exclusion of Christmas and Christianity by Political Correctness are actually Christian themselves (or indeed how many would on another day be complaining about Christians, Christianity and Christian Morality)?!

For your information dear Guesthouse, I am a Christian, as is the majority of the people of my country.

I thought (my mistake) that this topic was about political correctness, and that's what my posts are about.

Maybe you don't like what I'm saying but if you want to talk about christian morality plse start another topic.

I will gladly stay out of that one.

onzestan

Thanks for that, made my day.

Merry Christmas everybody, and remember the 3 wise men that came from the east to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.

How times have changed.

Happy New-Year!

cheers

onzestan

I am now in Europe visiting friends and family.

Couple of days ago I was in Germany.

The schoolchildren cannot have a traditional " Weihnachtsfeier " - Christmas feast - in school because it might upset children from other religions.

It's called " Winterfest " - winter feast - now. How does one explain to his/her child that celebrating the birth of Jesus is not PC.

In Belgium there was a row because Santa Claus (december 6 in continental Europe) wears a miter with a cross on it.

The cross had to go.

etc. etc. etc.

As I said before it's a one way street, and the end is not in sight, but hey who am I to complain? According to Garro only farangs that have adopted Thai lifestyle, and speak fluent Thai have the right to complain and I'm not one of them. But I also don't bitch about Thailand, it's their country, and I chose to live here, not become part of it.

cheers

onzestan

Ao Nang (Krabi) may be a good place now and early next year. There are spectacular beautiful islands and Railay is also beautiful. Islands and Railay are accessible by easily available long tailed boats. A friend of mine who lives there says there are VERY few tourists now.

Indeed, although I would add Koh Lanta to that, if quiet beach bungalows is what your looking at.

Also around Chumphon (which seems to gain popularity) some nice beaches with plenty of cheap accommodation right on the beach.

cheers

onzestan

i was thinking of my other persona....

the chocaholic one or the dog barking at planes one.....

Hi Mig16 not 16.

What about the picture below.

Anyway my avatar is a picture that reminds me of my youth in the countryside of Flanders.

Am in Belgium now, oooohhhhh the chocolate and the beer !!!!!

cheers

onzestan

What I don't like about PC is that it's a one way street.

It has become a weapon used and abused by so called minorities to the extreme.

Just my point of view.

onzestan

Well I think that once one found his little corner of paradise, big changes would not be welcome.

What your idea of paradise is depends for a great deal on your surroundings when you were growing up.

As a matter of fact, I have noticed that the older I get the less I welcome change, and don't mind really that life is passing me by, not the way it is heading anyway.

Far to much violence, cruelty and utter inhumanity in nowadays world and not nearly enough friendliness, gratitude, correctness and good manners amongst the young people.

But hey, that's only me.

cheers

onzestan

I agree. It is patently clear and obvious that most dual pricing in Thailand is implemented through racial profiling. Many of us find that repulsive and disgusting.

Once again I disagree. The only racial aspect in this whole comedy of capers, is that as a white-skinned person you are easily

identifiable as a non-Thai and therefore chances are high in this tourist city that you are a tourist.

Tourists get milked everywhere.

Anyway my policy is not to feel cheated everywhere I go in this fair city, and we are discussing Pattaya's Baht buses aren't we?

No malice intended

cheers

onzestan

How can something so trivial as the price of a trip on a baht bus trigger so much emotion.

I don't allow myself to be bothered by it longer than it takes to take my money from my pocket and pay.

Makes life a lot easier and a lot more fun.

cheers

onzestan

Oh, let me see, hmmm, I don't know, hmmmm, maybe it is the racial aspect of its enforcement that offends western sensibilities of basic fairness and equal treatment.

Asian faced billionaire, 5 baht

White faced pauper living on a frozen pension in a tiny room, 10 baht

Asian faced American, 5 baht

White faced luk krung, raised in Thailand, 10 baht

Took a while for the racial aspect to surface, but here we go again.

FYI I don't believe for one minute that there's a racial aspect to this Baht bus pricing policy.

For the Thais a tourist has more money than the Thais, therefore they should pay more. That's called profit enhancement!

They do what every taxi driver in the whole world does to tourists.

Live with it.

cheers

onzestan

The rule of law, and the way that police operate has something to do with it. Do you think for one moment that the Police in the UK or the US for example would allow what happened at Swammpy to happen? The fact that the PAD were armed is of little relevence. I'm pretty certain that a competent police force would have prevented that occupation in the first place, and if not they wouldn't have waited 6 days. We have already seen the BIB's idea of crowd dispersal at government house in Ocober, a total shambles.

As for your last sentence, yes I know what you are saying, but I doubt that the imcompetent and corrupt BIB would have done much anyhow.

Excuse me, but for me the most important thing about the outcome is that there was no bloodshed. As a matter of fact this should be applauded.

Just my opinion, you don't have to agree with me.

I've lived for nearly 20 years in this country, have witnessed many a crisis in this period, and I have to give it to the Thai people, they have always bounced back.

Granted there will be a backlash on the tourism industry but in my opinion this has as much to do with the current worldwide financial crisis as with the happenings at Suvarnabhumi.

Just my 2 cents

No malice intended.

onzestan

Before anyone gloats about the Stansted police, 54 protesters or a couple of thousand, that's a BIG difference.

Not that I condone the PAD actions. Just trying to keep everything in perspective.

cheers

onzestan

Come on, perspective?

Swammpy was closed for nearly a week, and it is still not fully operational, whatever BS AOT comes up with. The BIB had plenty of time to organise crowd control, and prevent the PAD from encamping at the airport, they chose not to. It is also doubtful that anyone will really be prosecuted for the disruptions.

I'm sure that if Stansted was to experience a PAD takeover, it would not last long, and they would be disperesed pretty quick, and whisked off to court and prosecuted.

OK if you say so.

Explain to me why there's no difference between a small group of peaceful protesters, and a couple of thousand protesters of which many were armed to the teeth.

Once again I do not condone the actions of the PAD, as a matter of fact I have been delayed by a week for my regular trip to Europe, but refuse to be bothered by it.

It's just that I am sick and tired of the posts claiming it would never happen in Britain.

Well it has happened albeit on a much smaller scale.

Cheers

onzestan

p.s let's also not forget who and what was behind the PAD actions.

How can something so trivial as the price of a trip on a baht bus trigger so much emotion.

I don't allow myself to be bothered by it longer than it takes to take my money from my pocket and pay.

Makes life a lot easier and a lot more fun.

cheers

onzestan