OldAjahn

58 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

That is exactly what I'm currently doing. (CW)

Most recent extension (Nov) using money in bank.

Started transfers at that time.

Will run both methods until next extension.

Any issue with income method I simply continue with money in bank method. 

Regarding your question re proof of source of income..,

That's down to immigration office.

Reports of bank statement showing 12 months of income each month as funds transferred from O/S is sufficient along with reports of immigration wanting to see proof such as pension etc.

Of course this refers to the 3 countries without "embassy letter" 

Thanks for the suggestion. That's definitely the safe course. But what's your estimation of the minimum requirements? I'd go with a logical deduction of the requirements if I was confident in it, and take my chances next year at CW. Failing which I wouldn't mind a trip to Singapore, it's been a while, to get a 90 day entry and follow EVENKEEL's course.

1 hour ago, ripstanley said:

The best way to find out is to go and ask your Immigration office. 

Unfortunately, while that should work, it does not always. Depends on the IO. I've been given incorrect instructions a couple of times in the past at CW by the IO officers that one deals with. Once I had to contest the IO's interpretation and the matter was settled by the senior officer who sits in the desk behind. Other times I've had to do the research myself. We're lucky who use CW because they will follow the published rules more than other offices

I'm confused. If someone with an existing non-o extension wants to convert from the 800,000 method to income method, when exactly can the 800,000 be removed? Presnock states, IIUC, that the 800,000 must be maintained for one year, simultaneously with 65,000 monthly deposits, until the next yearly extension. EVENKEEL's situation is slightly different, since he began fresh with a non-O 90-day visa.

I just did my yearly extension at CW based on 800,000, but would like next year to change to monthly income. My understanding of the rules is that three months after the date of the stamp, the bank account could be drawn down to 400,000, and the 400,000 could be withdrawn only after the new monthly income-based extension stamp became valid. When I changed from marriage to retirement status at CW, I had to present all the valid documents for a marriage visa on the day of the change, meaning I proved that I had fulfilled the requirements for my granted marriage extension throughout the previous year.

Does anybody have an experience changing the method at CW? And does CW just look at the date and amount of FFT transfer, or do they want to see documented proof of origin of the funds?

On 1/11/2024 at 12:50 AM, Gweiloman said:

This just goes to show how inept immigration officials are in Thailand. Regulations are that you have to keep a certain minimum amount of readily accessible funds in a Thai banking institution for a certain period. Why should it matter whether the account has a passbook or whether it’s an online account with electronic monthly statements? Most countries I’ve lived in dispensed with physical passbooks decades ago.
 

But this is Thailand, we just have to accept the good with the bad. We continue to stay here as long as the former outweighs the latter.

Last year at CW I renewed non-O retirement based on a US$ account, at BAY, which had only a plastic card. Presented a year statement printed out that day at BAY branch downstairs. The IO was not happy about it, but she took it.

Sorry to report, the details of the 5.1% FCD deposit accounts at Bangkok Bank, SCB, and also BAY, are not listed on their websites. Needs a call. But did learn the main catch; for all three banks, the customer must be in the "exclusive" category, meaning total deposits of either 3 or 5 million baht and an application to that status. I think for the right investor, the details would be highly interesting to learn. For me, not so much.

There's a new option, interest bearing foreign currency deposit (FCD). Bangkok Bank (from last year) and SCB (just announced), I'm not sure of the other banks, offer 5 plus percent on US dollar deposits. Last year I used a US$ FCD deposited at BAY (non-interest) in lieu of my 800,000 baht, and CW accepted it, though the IO was not quite pleased with the extra work to calculate the FX. I haven't read the offering details yet, but it seems to me these new accounts should solve the opportunity cost problem. Only special point is the need to monitor the exchange rate and deposit extra dollars when the baht rises, to avoid being short the 800,000 or the 400,000.

CW used to be 45 days. Anyone know if this is still the current rule at CW?

Just now, OldAjahn said:

Sorry, I meant the other embassy-issued certificates of residence that BKKB had previously allowed.

I subsequently did some research into the question. The Bank of Thailand is the one who issues the regulations for Thai bank accounts. A few years ago, I don't have the date, they changed the ID requirement from a passport, to passport plus some other quasi-official document which includes address. I was quoted: a Thai yellow book (non-tabien ban for foreigners), foreign government ID card, drivers license, a letter of employment from a recognized company, matriculation letter at a school, condo ownership document, and some others I've forgot. The Bank of Thailand thoughtfully provided as final option, in default of the others, an affadavit from the applicant's embassy. A grey area certainly.

As is often pointed out on this forum, it is worth while to do you business at a location with many foreign customers. My second BKKB visit was to a branch in the tourist area. Also opened accounts at BAY with even being asked for the comical US embassy letter, because it was the main branch at Ploenchit. Tried again at my local shopping center and was refused.

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Extremely lucky.

In the main without certificate of residence you cannot open a bank account in Bangkok with an entry from tourist visa or visa exempt. 

Not clear what "evidence you had"

Sorry, I meant the other embassy-issued certificates of residence that BKKB had previously allowed.

On 1/2/2024 at 1:10 AM, DrJack54 said:

It's certainly different than years gone by.

Most provinces require a certificate of residence from immigration and that might be possible with a tourist visa and even visa exempt stamp.

(not possible in Bangkok) 

Alternatively a "residence certification" from embassy, however USA,UK,AU do not provide that service.

It's possible purchase of insurance would assist the process.

 

Use of an agent is an alternative, however that also currently seems less straight forward. 

The OP in this thread asks questions however no good at answering questions such as "do you have a Thai bank account"

If not then it might be advantageous to obtain the non O prior to entering Thailand

 

 

True that the US Embassy can't provide residence certificate. Had a little spat opening a new account at a Bangkok Bank branch in Bangkok last year when I presented the comical document the embassy did provide, certifying that so-and-so, a US citizen, states that he lives at ... . The BKKB officer was quite correct to refuse my application with this document, but when I asked to see some successful residence certificates, there were others just like from the US previously approved. On the advice of my wife not to make enemies, I went to another branch, met with some resistance but showed the evidence I had, and was approved.

An additional caution on prospective bonds. 'Savings bonds', the kind sold at a bank that OldCPU has mentioned, can be sold before maturity, but only at the cost of losing your pro-rated share of the next interest payment. (Different issues have slightly different rules - make sure to ask). Pantabat Rathaban, Treasury bonds, can be sold over-the-counter at any time for the market price. Unpaid interest is accrued daily and added to the sale price of the bond, so you never loose your interest. Download the offering list at CIMB THAI bank, they will buy and sell for you.

I still think it's a risky proposition, from a strictly financial point of view. Bonds are nearly as risky as stocks, in a long-term portfolio. But then again, not all decisions in life are purely financial, are they?

Thanks, OldCPU, for the reports of your conversations with BOI. Now we need clarification of their rules. Because if a 5+ year bond is required, how could a mutual fund, so readily saleable, be allowed? If I'm following correctly, an applicant could sell the bond just after receiving the visa, and buy a new one just before the five year review, which doesn't make sense from BOI's point of view.

If 5 year + maturity and held past the review date is the true regulation, then check www.thaibma.or.th/EN/Market/YieldCurve/Government.aspx for a list of government bonds of all maturities and spreads. The over-the-counter market is not that liquid for off-the-run issues, I was told, and spreads are wide. So you need to look for recent (on-the-run) issues. To buy five year bonds, there would be an overlap at your 5-year review when you would be holding $500,000 worth of Thai paper, not a safe situation. In the US, the 30-year bond is the usual investor's choice: least volatile, most liquid. You'll see one recent 20 year and a 30-year on the ThaiBMA list. I'm thinking of going that route to the LTR myself, but there's a real question whether that fits with prudent long-term investment goals.

Following the old 60/40 rule, you would allocate 250k to bonds and 375k to equities if your total portfolio of investable assets (not including your primary residence) was 625k. But according to the home-currency rule, at least 60% should be in the home currency. So if my home is dollars, Thai bonds could be allocated 40% of 40% = 16%. Then I would expect a total port. of 1.57 million. Sorry, out of my league. If all your assets and all your expenses are in baht, and you expect to live in Thailand till the end, then your home currency is baht. But if even one of those criteria doesn't hold, then it's dollars or pounds or whatever. If you have a well-diversified international portfolio, and want a high yield on your investments, chances are your currency should be dollars.

Also, there's a recession coming, and the Thai bond yield curve is not yet showing the extreme inversion (recession-pricing) that the US curve shows, which suggests that Thai bonds bought now will loose money in the short-medium term. If you want to buy a 20 or 30 year bond, make sure your portfolio is set up to handle the inflation and FX risk.