noobexpat

1 hour ago, wordchild said:

" The  overseas use of offshore bonds has unfortunately come to be associated with high charging, opaque structures from commision-based salespeople who have sold risky investments to unsuspecting expats" Quoting AES from the above.

 

Don’t use this ....use our's instead!

Come on don’t be naive.

Fear sells.

Added: no mention of maturity dates, right? no need to reply i already know the answer.

2 hours ago, wordchild said:

 

The key takeaways for me are

     1) these products offer pretty much zero benefit for a long term expat who does not intend to return to the UK

     2) They offer the potential for loading exit charges which effectively tie in the customer.

    

Fair enough for reading the literature but you don’t actually understand when, why and who they are for. Because how could you?

Offshore bonds are not just used in connection with periods of non UK residency. They can also be suitable for people for have never left the UK and never will. Confused?

So what else don’t you understand about them. Everything really. You focus on exit charges but what about enhanced allocation, for example.

Personal finance is a strange subject. It brings out some peculiar over-confidence in folks. 

45 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

Who is "we" ?  Are you one of these IFAs?

 

 

The insurance policy wrapped investment products pushed by IFAs in Thailand and elsewhere do, in fact, have maturity dates listed in their "Policy terms"

 

No doubt similar to our offshore bonds, which don't have one and every other offshore bond i've ever seen.

So lets see these policy terms.

20 hours ago, Misty said:

 

That's great to hear that you think the only fees involved in this case will be between GBP50-1500.  However, there are insurance-wrapped investments that have been sold much more recently than the 1990s with long maturity dates.  It's the insurance wrapper, not the investment, that has the long date. 

Give me the product name. Hope you don't mean investment bonds, because they have no maturity date.

They are sometimes to referred to as life insurance bonds and thats what you are incorrectly referring to, no doubt.

19 hours ago, wordchild said:

Not True, Many offshore IFA,s still use a product called a "portfolio bond", as a kind of wrapper,   this is a structure which effectively locks the customer in for a number of years, carries high annual costs and is expensive to get out of.

 

The IFA,s  love them because they tie in the customer but they are of zero benefit to the majority of long-term expats.

 

These , portfolio bonds, can be very detrimental to your financial well being and if any advisor proposes such a structure you basically know that they are not going to act in your interests so walk away.

 

 

Incorrect. In fact more nonsense!

The wrapper is called a non qualifying investment bond. We use onshore and offshore versions.

Typically there is no initial charge but a sliding scale 6 year penalty that reduces by 1% pa. You are not locked into them at all. Some have enhanced allocation.

These plans are 99% used for IHT planning. But you won't know why. Its because they are not income producing and when created within a trust, which avoids trust taxation.

So many amateurs here. Why the guesswork guys??

37 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

Most of the IFA sold products I've seen do have hefty costs/penalties for getting out of them, with long lock-in periods.  Be sure to check the fine print, as I've run across people who thought they had a 5 year plan (IFA said verbally), when in writing it was 25 years. 

Total nonsense.

There is no investment product in 2024 that even has a fixed term. This is the over age 70 folks with their only experience being endowment "policies" from the 90's with their "maturity dates".

A qnups will likely have an admin fee for closure. A fixed amount, somewhere between £50 and £1,500. Standard practice.

58 minutes ago, MrBanks said:

Hi Mike and Misty and all others who have commented on this part of the chat, thank you for your thoughts, tips and advice, I really do appreciate it.

 

Regarding non domicile, in my case it would be virtually impossible to move my domicile, at the moment. The reason being is that I have too many financial ties to the UK. 

All of which I am selling, but until I do, my solicitors tell me that I can do everything that shows that I am domiciled in Thailand, however, HMRC will not make the final determination until after I am dead. I am not prepared to take that risk and my benefactors having to pay the 40%.

(Perhaps when all is sold and I have no ties my position will change, however, I anticipate that it could take up to 5 years to get into that position and at my age, it is a bit too much of a gamble, adopting a wait and see strategy.)

Regarding the QNUPS, I am comfortable that it is an instrument that does allow the contents to be passed on with no inheritance tax.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm17025

 

Regarding the QNUPS provider, these are only available from Guernsey, Isle of Man and Malta. My main bank is UBS in Zurich, I enquired from them if they offered QNUPS or something similar that would protect my estate from IHT, they had their lawyers in London contact me, they could offer nothing that gave the same guaranteed protection as a QNUPS, their best advice was to go down the non dom route, however, they also accepted the fact that HMRC would only decide upon my death.

I have looked at several QNUPS providers and chose OTAP, although I am still in the process of filling in all the paperwork. Next week I will be meeting one of the Co-Founders and CoDirectors of OTAP, here in Thailand.

Regarding the platform, the IFA has recommended Capital Investment Group(CIG),however, the IFA has told me that I am free to chose whichever platform I want, I am deciding between Morning Star and CIG. At the moment CIG is looking favourite, mainly because it is the one that the IFA is more familiar with, but Morning Star has the attraction of being regulated by the UK FCA.

Regarding the investments made within the QNUPS and on the platform, I am setting it up so that no transactions can take place without my approval, meaning that every recommendation I receive from the IFA can be checked out by myself, or any other advisor I choose to ask for help/guidance.

Regarding the IFA, I have done extensive research into the individual (including having a London based detective agency investigate him and report back to me). I have done less research on the company (IIMG Ltd), just google searches. I have had a very good endorsement about them from an acquaintance of mine, who he and his friend have, been dealing with IIMG Ltd for a few years.

 

I fully take on board, your concerns about the IFA, however, UK IFAs cannot offer regulated advise outside of the UK, whereas Mauritius does allow this, and IIMG Ltd have Professional Indemnity insurance, to the same standard as a UK advisor.

 

So, basically I find myself in the position of being happy with OTAP, knowing it is a genuine company.

Making the final decision about the platform, which will be used for the investing.

Restricting the power of the IFA, meaning once the money is in the QNUPS, nothing can be done with it, without my approval. Once time has passed and I have built a relationship with the IFA, by which I mean trust, then if I choose to, I can relax this.

 

I am now at the stage of filling in all the required paperwork, for OTAP, shortly after the paperwork for the chosen platform.

Once all is approved the money I transfer will go straight into OTAP, it never goes into the control of, or the bank of the IFA.

During this stage of the process my UK solicitors are reading every document that I am required to sign and going over all the terms and agreements with diligence.

After all my caution and checking, I hope that I am not part of some elaborate scam. The only downside that I can identify is that everything is outside the protection of UK FCA, however, as an expat I accept that and I am ensuring that both the the QNUPS provider and the investment platform are reputable solid companies.

I get the impression you're funding this qnups with cash, as opposed to a transfer. Makes a lot more sense now.

1 hour ago, BigBruv said:

 

 

Younger generations realise it's a scam and use vanguard direct, robinhood, trading212 or other platforms for their investments & sometimes pensions.

 

FYI, I know a guy here in the UK who does face to face for an investment advisory company (effectively a sales role).

They don't care about returns for clients - it's all about *assets under management* (as they charge 1-2% of the total whatever return or loss they make with clients money).

Almost ALL their customers are boomers.

 

As I stated before (with link), less than 10% of investment managers/advisors/whoever can beat the returns of a simple S&P Index tracker which charges approx 0.03% per annum.

If people wanna cough up 1-2% PA for a lesser of a return because they like personal service then it's fine by me - just wouldn't advise it.

Not needed for your £500 month pocket change savings, but when you get to the £millions, strangely enough finances can get a bit more complex.

Yes, nearly all boomers. But a lot of age +40's are into the £m ...like myself 

39 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

Interestingly, @MrBanks there is also another option in the Deloitte link for your wife to elect to be considered domiciled for the purposes of IHT taxes, "which would enable you to transfer assets to her free of IHT."   And this election apparently can be made after your death and even backdated.  

 

From the link: https://taxscape.deloitte.com/article/inheritance-tax--non-uk-domiciled-spouses.aspx

 

"Non-UK domiciled individuals who have a UK domiciled spouse or civil partner can elect to be treated as domiciled in the UK for IHT purposes only (i.e. not for other taxes such as income tax or capital gains tax). This enables assets to be transferred between spouses or civil partners free of IHT....Elections can be made by the non-UK domiciled individual either during the lifetime of the UK domiciled individual (a ‘lifetime election’) or following his or her death (a ‘death election’). In either case the election can be backdated to apply from an earlier date and so any gifts which were made from the date specified in the election should benefit from the uncapped spouse exemption available to UK domiciled couples. 

As you won't understand what this actually is, its just the unused transferable nil rate band allowance being made available to a non dom spouse on 2nd death. 

11 minutes ago, MrBanks said:

In my case getting involved with an IFA is all based upon the need to set up protection against UK inheritance tax. I was absolutely amazed, when I learnt that if a UK citizen was married to a non UK citizen, then if the UK citizen dies first, the spouse does not inherit tax free. Yes they get the allowance of £325,000, but everything thereafter is taxed at 40%.

Whereas if the spouse was a UK citizen, then there would be zero inheritance tax…… a totally unfair situation!

After taking advice from both my UK solicitors and accountants, I discovered that there was only 3 alternatives.

1. My wife becomes a UK citizen:

Well after being married for 24 years and having spent several of those years in the UK, we are not prepared to go back and live there for 5 years, in order for her to qualify. Our home is in Thailand.

It would seem (unless someone knows better) that the UK will not take into consideration the previous years, on an accumulation basis, when she was living there with a resident visa/permit, if they did we could go back for a year and solve the problem.

2. I become non domiciled:

In theory easy enough, I have to cut all ties with the UK, declare non domicile etc. The big problem with this is, that in my case, it is virtually impossible to cut all ties with the UK, and HMRC will not give a ruling on me being non domiciled, until after I pop my clogs, therefore making this alternative too risky.

3. Putting as much of my wealth as I can into a QNUPS, the contents of which can pass to my wife tax free.

I only found out about QNUPS after approximately 2 years of searching for a solution, my accountants did not know about them, neither did my solicitors, they both do now, because I have had them check the legitimacy.

I found out about them from an IFA. He has recommended that I open up a QNUPS with OTAP in Guernsey, so they are regulated by the Guernsey FSCC, the platform that will be used for investment is CIG, regulated by the Isle of Man FSA.

The firm of IFAs are registered in Mauritius and regulated by the Mauritius FSC.

Once the QNUPS is set up, the IFA cannot make any investments without my approval, also by using the IFAs, many of the OTAP fees are not charged.

I have met with the IFA (in Thailand) several times over the last 2 years, next week I will meet with a Co-Founder and Director of OTAP, here in Thailand.

A lot of this doesn't make sense, except the non-dom bit. 

You talk about IHT then a qnups - but there is no IHT on pension funds anyway So ...?? Pension funds only have death benefits.

This reference to "uk citizen" ...there is no such TAX term. So ...???

The bit about anything above £325k being subject to iht is a bit daft as there are a whole suite of solutions.

Both your accountant and solicitor confirmed something about IHT?? Sounds fishy. 

So a pension transfer for IHT purposes but its not subject to IHT anyway. Aware of pre and post age 75 death benefits??

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

FYI. the thread is not about the UK, it's about expat advisors in Thailand.

And they also won't be using decades old terminology either.

You're 30 years behind the curve.

Horizon wealth in the link above using a DFM, for example.

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

And all the commissions are paid for by the clients, taken out of their policies up front.

Commission and policies ??? - the 1990's wants its words back lol

The era of endowments ended decades ago which is where these terms came from.

FYI, commission has been barred in the UK for many years, as an example.

34 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

It's the fund managers getting rich, not the investors. 

 

Fund managers come and go but its time that makes investors rich.

I've seen 800% gain in 30 years from a clients mutual fund.

I'll still be under 80 in 30 years 😉

10 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

Depends how you define regulated.

 

It's the only profession in the world where they are not obligated to provide anything and still get paid. If your fund gets 0 per cent one year, they still get paid.

 

And you are claiming that you made 10 per cent during Covid when most businesses were shut down? So you made the same during Covid as you did in all other normal years?

 

I don't believe people who claim they make 10 per cent per year year after year in mutual funds without nary a glitch. 

 

It's the fund managers getting rich, not the investors. 

 

When you have no knowledge but go for it anyway 555

6 minutes ago, swissie said:

The term "investement advisor" is still a unclassified profession. Everybody including his uncle can call himself an "investement advisor".

Not in the UK they can't. And not for the past +40 years.

You need to have FCA controlled function 30 authorisation.

Even has a wiki page...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCA_Controlled_Functions

On 4/25/2024 at 10:49 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

My biggest dream?

To solve this equation. 

 

Calculus - specifically integration with limits.

Used for calculating the volume inside a non-linear shape.

As the limits are pi/2 and -p/2 ...pi is radians not 3.141 ...its clearly the volume inside a 360 degree shape - something like an arced tube.

As the final upper limit is 'bwL' the answer cannot just be a number, using that screenshot.

I suspect the text book then moves into the rate of flow of a fluid through this shape and uses differentiation, another branch of calculus.

15k baht interest pa is in the insignificant category.

I keep way more than 800k in the account but don't need it for elite visa.

1.8% meh who cares. Not me.

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Apply your actuary skills and explain why.

 

Give it your best go.

WIFM?

On 4/18/2024 at 8:20 PM, Neeranam said:

 

Does anyone here do this and or what are the benefits?

 

I can actually calculate the consequences. But for you ....not a chance. 

11 minutes ago, Stocky said:

But wealth buys you a better class of misery.

And faster wifi to degrade everyone on here!

Thats why i have fiber 

4 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Fortunately, you won't be able to see my toes as I wear shoes when I go out.

I think we could be friends. 

No teeth picking though!

7 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

The sooner the better - would you like a hand?  

With your arthritis? 😆 

5 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

They are are not bothered not many Thais are as judgmental as you plus it’s putting food in their stomachs.

They are not bothered? ...you asked them all? dumb comment

26 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

You are being very judgmental, it’s probably all these people can afford, criticising people you don’t even know, just because they dress down doesn’t make them lower class or bad people, what’s do you regard yourself as ?

If its all they can afford then why is there usually a lady in tow?

Its a shame they can't make an effort like the women do. Both visually and socially. They shame they must endure, being seen with these scruffy people.