Mike Lister

Er, you might change your mind if they decide to enforce that foreigners need tax clearance certificates before leaving the country. Those certificates are already on the books but not enforced. https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html

That is simply incorrect, the proposed new rules begin effective January 1, 2024 for the tax return that is due Jan/Mar 2025.

That was my understanding also. But if you see Jenkins post earlier on this page he says he spoke with RD in Bangkok and he wrote, "UK State Pension is tax free as the State will have dealt with that". So, dunno, really. It would make sense that State pension would be disregarded but that's just me.

This is not altogether bad news, providing it is accurate and fairly complete. If the "UK State Pension is tax free as the State will have dealt with that", that becomes excluded income and shouldn't be reported on the Thai tax return. Ditto US SSc income which is only taxable by the US under DTA rules. The Thai tax return therefore begins with any private pension income and any property rental income. But Thai RD Allowances and deductions for people aged over 65 years total 340,000 baht or about 7,500 Pounds which will reduce the liability for many people, substantially. Capital Gains on the eventual sale of property will be taxable but the principle will be regarded as savings hence tax . free. It seems to me that a tax free income of around 70k Baht per month is easily achievable, before tax becomes due.

Some clarification on those things here, from Sherrings https://sherrings.com/assessable-income-foreign-sources-thailand.html

Non-resident bank accounts in Thailand do not pay interest on balances, neither can THB be deposited into the account.

er, yes! The point that was made earlier was that Resident and resident for tax purposes are not the same thing. A foreigner on a work permit/visa/temporary permission to remain, cannot be a Resident, only a Thai national or a naturalised foreigner can be that.

Foreigners on Work Permits are not Residents, they are foreigners on visa's, extensions or temporary permission to remain.

When you fill out the US SSc change of bank form, your address must be in the same country as the bank. The SSC payments system checks those two things and rejects any transaction where the two things are in different countries. I know this because Manilla failed to change my home address from the UK to Thailand when it changed my bank details and it took nearly three months before payments resumed....it was a nightmare and Manilla was not helpful, it took many letters to the US to get it sorted.

When I set up my US SSc transfer to the local Bangkok Bank, I had to use a US SSc form that was duly signed and stamped by the bank and a copy sent to Manilla for processing. Bangkok Bank kept the form and said they needed it for their records. In answer to your query about whether it can be tracked, yes it can.

Just taking a step back for a moment: The proposed taxation is not aimed at foreigners who live in Thailand on retirement visa's, it's aimed at Thai nationals who repatriate earnings from overseas and others engaged in illegal activities. Why do I know this to be true? Because firstly, they have said so, secondly the numbers don't stack up to warrant foreign retirees being taxed on living expenses, there aren't enough of us to make it a worthwhile venture for the RD. Once the RD works out the mechanics of this whole thing, anyone who comes from a country that has a DTA with Thailand will be ticked and passed, as Sheryl has said repeatedly.

I am neither a Resident nor a Thai citizen, I am a foreigner who remains in Thailand on an extension of stay - I am a UK citizen. But because I stay in Thailand for more than 180 days per year, I am resident in Thailand for tax purposes. PS I already told you it was verbal communications, perhaps you could go the Revenue office and ask them yourself and see what they say.

TBH I don't know if today that's still possible but I strongly suspect it is. I held a NR bank account for several years whilst residing here on an OA....but that was then and this is now!

It was verbal communication at the time I first completed the tax return at the Revenue Offices, reinforced verbally in the second year.

Yes, all DTA's are different.

THB has fallen, as in weakened, not risen, as in gained.

This is going to be painful, I already know! That's all fine and good from a RD tax perspective but the term "resident" has a broader meaning in the context of citizenship and residency. So when the likes of you and I or any other two non-Thai's use the term "resident", it need qualification. The fact the document above attempts to quantify the terms "resident" and "non-resident" and begins with a definition of Resident (capitalised) and then in the same sentence reverts back to "resident", shows even the RD is not consistent on this point and is slightly confused. A person is (a) Resident for citizenship and Immigration purposes, aka, a Thai national or a naturalised foreigner, or, they are on a visa or an extension of stay, in which case they are not Residents. Similarly, a foreign subject in Thailand can be resident for tax purposes or not-resident for tax purposes. Lastly, a person like you or I who are not Thai are not Residents but we are resident for tax purposes (presumably). Lastly, if you keep your cool and stay polite, we can debate (or not), if you don't, we won't.

It's part of the same process that many countries go through, pay tax, account for it at year end and then pay extra or get a refund.

I completely agree, that is the function of the banks Treasury Department who provides the consolidated data to BOT.

Here's a conundrum: What if a long stay expat, Thai resident for tax purposes, remits income to their bank account in Thailand but the account is a non-resident account? That means the account earns no interest and doesn't need permissions etc to repatriate the funds. As long as said expat has no income from inside Thailand, are those funds subject to Thai tax? I don't see how they can be, given that the account is specifically non-resident.

Logically, yes.

The latter, the RD didn't even want it shown on the tax return.

US SSc payments are not Thai income, they are overseas income payments received in Thailand. But I also receive income from the UK every month that is paid into the same bank, that income is not excluded income and is shown on my Thai tax return.

US SSc is specifically excluded from any taxation by any country other than the US, it says so in the DTA between the two countries. For Thai tax purposes it is considered to be disregarded income, I have filed Thai tax returns on that basis for two years, using guidance provided by Region 1 Revenue offices in Chiang Mai..

Dr Ampica recommends Dr Donyarat as the best surgeon for the job, ironically she is one of the two Dr's on the Sriphat Hospital list that you sent me above. As I recall, Dr D. has Harvard education on her resume.