sebhoff

Here's my final update to this thread: the two volunteers in Phuket have just been granted an extension to their 3-month non-O visa; they can now stay in Thailand long enough to complete their full year abroad (actually, they could now stay till 10 April 2025!). They first had to submit documents to the Department of Social Development and Welfare, the school was then visited by officials from the department who then wrote a positive report. This was submitted to the Governor's office, which then issued a letter confirming their support for continued volunteer work. The school then organised all the necessary documents for the immigration office (and they had to return twice because some tax-related stuff was still missing) - and now the extension has finally been granted. Total cost was only 1.9k Baht for the full year extension. What an odyssey!! The German sending institution is planning to send two more volunteers to the same school next year. They seem to be willing to rely on the embassy in Vientiane sticking to the old rules - something I find to be quite a gamble. Other sending organisations working with "weltwärts" seem to have dropped Thailand from their programme. This is for example the case with Volunta, which is actually not surprising, given that of their four current volunteers, only one remains in Thailand (because they also happen to have a Thai passport...). I also still feel quite strongly that the "weltwärts" people are not doing enough to make sure that up-to-date information is distributed across all volunteers funded by "weltwärts" (i.e. across the various sending organisations). It would have been much easier if their procedures included provisions for this type of information flow!

OK - here's an update: One of the volunteers has just managed to get a 3-month non-immigration "O" visa for volunteers in Vientiane/Laos. It seems that the old rules are still applied there. It would have been nice to know this a few months ago - and I'm sure other volunteers in a similar situation would love to know this... I have also been in contact with the "weltwärts" people, suggesting that it might be a good idea for them to coordinate information among the volunteers sent to Thailand from the various sending organisations, but their reply was disappointing. They basically said that the current situation in Thailand involves too many factors to be able to provide helpful information to everybody, and that the sending institutions are sufficiently connected with each other to provide this kind of information themselves. It is my impression that this is not really true... Also, the fact that old rules still apply in Vientiane would be helpful regardless of the individual local situation. Anyway... The next step will now be to get a work permit (I think) and then the extension of the 3-month visa. Whether that will be possible without ministerial support will be the next interesting question to tackle.

OK - thanks! Will pass this on to them...

Interesting - thanks! The receive 100€/month from the German sending organisation, plus accommodation and lunches. The rest is their own responsibility.

I think it's a mixture of various reasons. There is *definitely* a rule change - staff at the consulate in Frankfurt confirmed this to me. This seems to lead to issues for volunteers at NGOs where it had previously been no problem to get a non-immigrant "O" visa. The local branch of the NGO where they two volunteers currently are that I am in direct contact with had not previously worked with "weltwärts". Due to the fact that it is only their "head office" in Bangkok that appears to have the (previously) required status, It may well be the case that volunteers would have run into problems even in previous years. And that's something that the "weltwärts"-people/the German sending organisation could perhaps have been aware of. This thread does certainly help me sort out this mess - at least in my mind...

Yes - this might be part of the issue. Weltwärts work with many different NGOs - and their status seems to vary. Some are actual schools that work under the supervision of the Ministry of Education while others are "foundations"/charities whose recognition depends on the Ministry of Social Welfare (or whatever the exact name is). The NGO of the volunteers who have just re-entered the country *is* recognised by the Thai government - but they have branches in different provinces, and it seems that the individual branches each do not have this status (or the necessary documentation). At least that's how I understand things at the moment...

Yes - true. Thanks for pointing this out! Hadn't thought about it from that perspective... The NGOs do profit from it, though - but yes, they are clearly no specialists who are willing to provide their skills for free.

Apparently, the German MFA is aware of the situation - but I don't know whether this can/will have an impact on solving the problems for the current group of volunteers. I don't know how widespread the problem really is - "weltwärts" works with (I presume) dozens of sending organisations, and there are only six volunteers currently in Thailand from the sending organisation of my direct contacts. I do know, however, that volunteers of at least two other sending organisations experience similar problems, and I certainly suspect many more volunteers will in fact be affected. I'll talk again to the sending organisation in question tomorrow. Their support (at least of the person in charge of Thailand) has been less than stellar, but I'll certainly raise the issue of involving the embassy/ambassador.

Well - I wouldn't want to go that far, really... I've been told that this kind of visa surprise is not entirely uncommon - and I'm not sure "weltwärts" can really be blamed for not doing their homework. The Thai authorities apparently changed the rules at relatively short notice. The volunteers were provided with full support from their German "sending organisations" and there was no advance warning that they wouldn't fulfil all requirements for obtaining their visas. Two of the three consulates in Germany (Frankfurt and Berlin) did not list the new requirement on their website (Munich did - but this is not where the volunteers that I'm in direct contact with needed to apply). I also fully understand that Thai authorities want to fight abuse of the non-immigrant "O" (voluntary) visa. However, it would have been nice if they didn't make it almost impossible for genuine volunteers to do what they are hoping to do... I've just heard from two of the volunteers that returned from Malaysia that they almost didn't make it into the country. The immigration officer at the airport asked one of them a range of questions and it was pretty obvious that she did not believe them that they were entering the country for the purposes of tourism. It so happens that she lives near the NGO in question, knows the address the volunteers had given - and of course it *does* look suspicious... She apparently entered some comments into her computer - I suspect that there will be a follow-up from local authorities. I have now advised the two volunteers to stay away from the NGO (they are staying in a house nearby) and not to do anything that can be interpreted as "doing work" until the situation has been resolved (if it ever is). <sigh>

Yep - that is my current interpretation of the situation, too... <sigh>

Sorry - I don't understand this sentence... My question was not about whether schools can organise ED visa - I know that. I'd like to have a better idea about whether doing volunteer work on an ED visa is a potentially serious problem or not. I found a Thai document from 2019 that suggests that different governmental institutions have different ideas about this. But I don't know whether the issue has been resolved/clarified - the Google translation text is pretty ghastly...

Sigh - you seem to jump to conclusions quite quickly... No - they of course did not do zero planning. The group have had months of preparation by the organisation that sends them abroad. But everyone was surprised by the new rules - which of course did not apply when the last batch of volunteers was sent over. If you find out about new rules a few weeks before you leave and if you then also realise that not everyone in Thailand is aware of these new rules, either, this is a difficult situation that is beyond your control. As I previously said, solving this situation via a repeated visa-exempt status is not an option. Of course, this may also not be compatible with doing volunteer work anyway (but you haven't commented on that part of my question, even though it is about the ED-visa)...

Well, it's not me. It involves several people I am in contact with - partly directly, partly indirectly. "Voluntary social year" suggests that they want to stay for a year. However, on this programme it is not possible to remain on a tourist visa for the whole time; this is not compatible with the rules of the funding agency.

I'm clutching at straws here - but perhaps I can get some helpful input on visa problems that seem hard to solve... I'm wondering whether anyone here can shed light on possible solutions for getting non-immigration "O" voluntary visas for Thailand. I know a number of Germans doing a voluntary social year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_social_year) who are currently in Thailand as part of the official "weltwärts" programme that is funded by the German government - which is about as legit a programme as it can get. So we are not talking about abusing the system... For some of these volunteers, the visa application process was unsuccessful when they applied back in Germany - because the Thai government is apparently currently trying to crack down on people abusing the old system. As a result, new rules now require written consent not only from the organisation that they are doing voluntary service with but also from a governmental/ministerial office that is in charge of the organisation in question. For various reasons (e.g. the ministerial office isn't aware of the new rules, this particular branch of the NGO is not officially recognised by the government (while their "head office" in Bangkok is), etc.) this type of document cannot be obtained for some of the volunteers, and as a result the relevant visa is not issued. Other volunteers were initially successful in securing the non-immigrant "O" visa but now face difficulties when extending this to a full year, and are about to leave the country to (probably) come back as tourists. A number of these volunteers did enter Thailand on the 30-day visa-exempt scheme and tried to change their visa to a non-immigrant "O" voluntary visa locally (using TM.87). In the case of the people in Phuket, for example, this was not successful. They then extended their 30-day tourist status by another 30 days and recently left the country for Malaysia once no solution could be found during this period. They are planning to re-enter the country again for 30 days as tourists, hoping that something can finally be done to solve the situation. One solution that has been proposed to them is to apply for an education visa as soon as they are back in the country. This would be a more costly option, but at least they get some language lessons in return. What's unclear to me is whether their ED-visa will allow them to do volunteer work. They do not receive any money from their local organisations and their accommodation and food is paid for by the German government (and by the German institution that sent them abroad). I've seen conflicting evidence about whether this could technically get them into trouble or not - and I'd really like to know... Another solution for people whose local branch of the NGO does not have the necessary status might be to apply for a non-immigrant "O" visa in Bangkok (at least this was suggested by the local immigration office). Assuming that they manage to get this done, how problematic would it be to do their volunteering in a different province than where their visa was issued? Some volunteers have been advised to use the services of local agencies, but it is my impression that many of these offer fairly fishy services that explore dubious loopholes/involve bribes etc. It doesn't sound to me as if participants of an official programme funded by the German government should have to rely on this type of solution...? Anyway - any thoughts, helpful comments, suggestions? Many thanks in advance!