Khon Baan Nok

I don't think so. I cannot categorize what it is that they are doing, but each time it is done I have a new F visa with a new number and I also have a new extension of stay. The two are linked (they are issued on the same day, usually).

Immigration does not issue or renew visas, that's the job of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Immigration issues extensions of stay and re-entry permits, when applied for and you meet the requirements. As said, the OP should scan and post his latest set of US passport entries from immigration.

Two pages from US passport attached as requested.

Type F Visa.ed.pdf

As pointed out earlier in the thread, my original visa was in the UNLP - in anticipation of the change in my status, I had the visa moved from my UNLP to my national (US) passport over a year ago. I now have the "F" visa in my US passport. When I travel for official purposes, I exit Thailand on my US passport and enter the mission destination on my UNLP (in which I obtain the proper visas). It is all very straightforward.

Just to reiterate, the latest and current version of the F visa is, and has been for a year, in my US national passport which I will use for travel and residence after 31 October (or 30 November, counting the grace period).

So that's not the problem...

S.

Khun KBN -- AS you are from USA, then you have 2 passports and your 'official' passport can only be used when you are on official or diplomatic agenda... you would use your regular passport for all other travel. Therefore, it may very well be that you cannot extend your 'F' visa simply because it it is in the wrong passport which you cannot use for personal travel.. and you should obtain a new visa in your non-official passport.

reason for edit: obviously American.

I don't think so. I cannot categorize what it is that they are doing, but each time it is done I have a new F visa with a new number and I also have a new extension of stay. The two are linked (they are issued on the same day, usually).

When did the OP last visit a Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate and get a Non "F" visa which he used to entry Thailand? What was the expiration date of that visa? After that date the visa is expired and no longer valid. Immigration has been granting an extension of stay thereafter, not renewing his visa.

I do not doubt what you say, LB. As mentioned in the first post, I came in on an "F" visa that has been regularly renewed, and identified in my LP (now passport) as an "F" visa, and paired with an extension of my Permission to Stay. I have to conclude that there are different procedures for different types of visa; mine was/is an "F".

I'm curious about whether you ever leave Thailand? If you do, how do you get back in without a visa?

S.

My "O" Visa expired 6 years ago. Every year I extend my Permission to Stay, not my Visa that has long expired.

You do not extend a Visa. You extend a Permission to Stay.

With regard to the original question, there is indeed a document that seems to correspond to the OP's question, though it is not apparent that the OP would qualify for it. A picture and explanation are here:

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2496

S.

It is true that I was, and remain, confused. Welcome to the club, as you and most of the other respondents are entitled to the same distinction:

I entered Thailand in 2005 on an F visa issued in New York. UN staff are required to obtain the F visa BEFORE entering Thailand.

EVERY time my F visa has expired, I have had to obtain BOTH a new F visa, with a new number and new valid dates, AND a new Extension of Stay that corresponds to the visa.

I have no idea where any of you are getting the idea that an extension can be granted without a valid visa "underpinning" it. I cannot say that you are wrong, but I have five years of renewals that clearly demonstrate that there is a link between the extension of the F visa and the extension of stay.

It may well be that I do not require an OA visa, I'm not arguing that point. The rules for OA visa do seem to stipulate that it must be obtained from within the country of original nationality, so if that is true then indeed I should not be able to get one from here in Thailand. Whether I NEED one remains a question.

Bottom line, and I remain grateful for the education I'm getting from those more experienced in these matters than I am at present, is that the information I'm seeing posted here does not give me confidence that it is based on actual experience of converting from an F visa to...whatever it is I'm converting to.

The one piece of bankable advice I am extracting from this merry-go-round is the need to get the clarification from Immigration at Chaeng Wattana. That I will do, and will provide a fact-based summary of how it plays out...after it has played out. Hopefully successfully...

Tks again for time and effort,

S.

Khon Baan Nok, I can see you are mighty confused.

Visa. Some time in the past a Thai consulate stamped a Non-F visa in you UNLP. Make a copy of that visa and keep it as souvenir. Read it and you will see that it said that it was valid for travel to Thailand within a certain period, and use it for travel you did and on arrival in Thailand you received permission to stay for 90 days.

Permission to stay. That permission to stay, not the validity of the visa, was extended periodically for the reason of your employment or whatever you wrote on that line at the bottom of the application form TM.7

Retirement extension. To "convert" the type of your extension of stay, the next time you apply you write "retirement" on the application form on the line "Reason(s) for extension".

Transfer of stamps from UNLP to US passport. Your non-F visa, long since expired, was not transferred. In the analogous situation when somebody gets a new passport when his old one is full or near expiration the immigration office makes three entries in the new passport: a note referring to the original visa in the old passport; a copy of the last arrival stamp; a copy of the last extension of stay. Look at your US passport. Does it have these three entries?

For certain types of a new reason for extension some immigration offices want to see a new entry into Thailand with a new non-immigrant visa. The only way for you to find out what your local immigration office wants is to go and ask them. You do not have to wait until the last day of your employment. I suggest you go any time now and ask them about it.

I'm the OP and I remain thoroughly confused. The "barking up the wrong tree" comment seems to be on target.

Some additional facts:

1. I presently have both a diplomatic (UN) passport (AKA Laissez Passer, or UNLP) and a national (US) passport. My original "F" visas were in the UNLP, but in anticipation of my retirement I had the F visa moved from the LP to my national passport. When my employment ends on 31 October, I am required to return the UNLP to the UN and I will only have my US passport, which now contains the F visa.

2. The F visa expires on 30 November, but will be cancelled by the UN on or soon after 31 October. It is not apparent to me how I could get an Extension of Stay if I have no valid visa underpinning it.

3. Consequently it is my impression that a) I DO in fact require a visa of some sort (in this case, Non-Immigrant OA), and I WILL need to leave the country to get it. My original question was whether this could be done without leaving the country, and I'm still not sure even about that.

If there's anyone in the forum who has actually gone from F to OA status, it would be great to hear from her/him, as the waters still seem murky to me.

But I appreciate the discussion that is taking place, it is helpful and I appreciate the time and energy you are all putting into this.

Cheers,

S.

If you are worried go and have a chat with Immigration. They are usually helpful and friendly.

Tks to all for the clarifications. With regard to the chat with Immigration, is it better to have a native Thai speaker accompanying me, or is it possible to do it in a combination of Thai and English?

S.

I am still not able to put two and two together from your comments, Lopburi3 and LB.

Effective 31 October 2010 I will end my employment and will no longer be entitled to an "F" visa. (There is a 30 day grace period up to 30 November, but that is just for tying up loose ends and leaving.)

You both seem to be saying that all I need is an extension of stay of 12 months, but the only visa I have lapses on 30 November. So I cannot understand how I could get a 12 month extension without some kind of visa of equal validity.

Thanks in advance for your efforts to get this through my thick skull...

S.

My apologies for being obtuse.

Are you suggesting that because I already have a Non-Immigrant Type F visa, that this can be converted to a Type OA and extended for 12 months just by providing the financial proofs required for the Retirement Type OA and paying the necessary fees? Without leaving Bangkok?

Tks in advance for your clarifications, I'm new to this process.

S.

Basic facts: I am a US citizen, 62 years of age. I am just completing my fifth year in Thailand on a Non-Immigrant "F" (Diplomatic) visa. I will retire on 31 October and will remain in Thailand and will initially go for the retirement visa and subsequently the non-immigrant residential visa. I meet all of the financial and other requirements for the retirement visa.

Specific questions:

1. On the Thai Immigration web site there is a form TM86 - called Application for Change of Visa. Can I use this to convert from my F visa to an OA Retirement Visa?

2. If not, I have been told that I can actually apply for the OA Retirement visa from here in Bangkok, i.e., I do not have to leave the country to begin the visa process. Is this correct?

3. If it is correct, will I be issued an OA visa valid for three months, or for twelve?

Thanks in advance for your informed views and advice.

Regards,

NDS

I always carry a stick when monkeys are around, and they recognize the gesture of reaching down for a (real or imaginary) rock.

That's not sufficient if you are carrying food, which is an invitation for attack. Don't eat, and even be careful of your water bottle.

I believe that monkeys can sense fear, and if you show some bravado, you can sometimes intimidate them. I make noises and facial grimaces. Looks stupid, but it helps.

My final secret: I have a wonderful Wrist Rocket with double surgical tubing and stainless steel ball bearings for ammo. I'd never bring it out in front of Thai people, and never in a temple, but when I'm out hiking or walking in nowhere land, I have no qualms about inflicting a little pain - they'll spread the word...

Further to the instructions in the forum:

US citizen, will be 62 in April, retiring at that time. I have been in Thailand for 4 years as staff of an international organization.

I am seeking basic but definitive information on obtainment of a retirement visa, beginning with the basic steps and documents. I've been searching for a while, but many of the searches lead to horror stories or solicitations from "facilitators".

I have some specific questions:

1. Can I apply for the retirement visa while I'm still in Thailand, or do I have to go back to the US first?

2. I have two bank accounts at the Siam Commercial Bank, one is a US dollar account and the other is a Thai baht account. I move money between them (mostly from dollars to baht). The combined balance is always in excess of 1 million baht, though the bulk of it is usually in the dollar account. I have several passbooks dating back for four years that are filled with transactions. Will this suffice to meet the financial deposit criterion?

3. I have two vehicles in my name with up-to-date tabiyan rots. I have two driver's licenses (car and motorcycle) in the current trans-ASEAN format. Are these necessary or relevant for proof of identity?

4. What is the best way (and place) to start this process?

If I've missed the FAQ on this, I apologize.

At the risk of appearing as (or being) an ingrate, I have to give a thumbs down to the new online version, too. The interface is vastly inferior to the old one, and it appears to have been de-tuned to produce fewer, and less usable, results. Example: I was looking for the correct spelling of the word กำลัง and entered the word "now" in the search box. To my surprise, none of the results included กำลัง. It is also slower than it used to be, and a lot less convenient to user for "on the fly" translations.

I've used the online version on a near-daily basis for the several years I've been in Thailand, and have benefited enormously from Mike's labor of love. I did the download, but found it less convenient to use than the previous online version, or than the free dictionary that comes with the excellent Domnern Sathienpong Thai to English dictionary. This book/CD is 570 baht, and while the book is only Thai to English, the CD version goes both ways.

I feel like I've lost an old friend...

:-D

Thanks, however, for the several years of a truly great facility, Mike, it was super while it lasted.

S.

A question:

Most here advise rental because a non-Thai citizen can never own land.

And there is an oft quoted maxim - "never invest more in Thailand than you can afford to walk away from".

And yet there is another excellent thread on this forum, where members are proudly showing photos of their houses all over Thailand. Some of which could only be described as palaces or quasi hotels such is their size, opulance and cost.

Are all these people so rich they can afford to walk away from these incredibly expensive mansions? or:

Are they so naive that they believe they will never be divorced from their Thai spouse and therefore unlikely to lose all? or:

Have they found a way to get around the rules against owning land and, if so, could they advise others of the secret?

Old Croc has pretty much put his finger on the essence of my original question. I have a long-standing relationship with a Thai GF, and I am prepared for some portion of my "estate" to go to her and her sons with her ex-husband. My primary obligation though is to three sons in the US. If I had no one to worry about outside of Thailand, I would already have bought a place and to hel_l with what happens after I'm gone. By the same token, if I had 40-65M to invest I'd be seeking advice from lawyers, not this forum. :-D

Is there anyone amongst us who has built or bought one of these nice homes who expects to transfer ownership (relatively easily) to non-Thai family members after they die? Like Old Croc, I'm trying to figure out how...

Tks.

I'm the OP, and just wanted to thank you all for the inputs. I am following the thread closely. Bottom line is that my impression is that there is no way--I don't understand the "offshore" solution clearly--I could accomplish my purpose without either leaving my three sons a lost asset or a convoluted problem that they would have great difficulty in ever resolving.

At this point the best option seems to be the rental suggestion, or consider another country, such as Malaysia, in which I believe there are few obstacles.

Thanks to all for having contributed, and I welcome any additional comments. I have not yet met any non-Thai property owner who has personal experience of having managed this issue. If any of you have, please let me know.

Cheers,

Sandy

I have three sons in the US. I would like to retire in Thailand, but I do not want to live in a condo.

I am aware, I think, of the mechanisms through which I could acquire a non-condo property, but none of them seem to offer a reasonably simple and secure mechanism of ensuring that when I die, the investment would be transferable to them. Is there a way of doing that without going condo?

Thanks for your advice.

S.

Apologies, I thought it better not to clutter the bike classified section with this accessory...

Last week in California I bought a Nelson-Rigg Model 2000, size Large, waterproof and breathable bike cover.

It is too snug for my GS1150 with bags. I will sell it for the $85 (or baht equivalent) I paid for it, hand-carry transport to Thailand is free. :-D

It is brand-new, includes a back-pack stow bag and the little bungies that go in the grommets. Does not include the box, which I left behind.

Product description is here:

http://www.nelsonrigg.com/pages/Bike%20Cov...on-2000-Big.htm

I'm in Bangkok, PM or email if interested.

Sandy

The rental garage I used recently filled up the Nouvo I rented with gasohol. I queried it. He said it did not matter. It's his bike!

You do know it's all colour coded so the benzene (gas/petrol) 91 pump always has a red sticker and so on. I'm afraid I can't remember the other colours off the top of my head.

Yellow is gasoline 95.

Orange is gasohol 95.

If there are any owners of the Kawa W650, or if anyone has access to a legitimate (green booked) example, can you say whether the frame and the engine numbers are supposed to be identical?

Tks very much.

Thanks a million, I am just now contemplating doing this, and your report is very helpful and confidence-inspiring. Much appreciated...

อะไรกันนักหน้า or อะไรกันนักหนา ... not sure? What is nuck nah? Thanks

it's the latter or อะไรกันนนักกันหนา, meaning is 'what's all this fuss about' or 'what's the big deal' or something along those lines.

all the best.

อะไรกันนนักกันหนา is a prominent lyric in a song, I believe of the same name, on the quite entertaining CD called:

Big Ass Begins.

Be alert, sometimes you'll hear this band talked about as Beeg Att. I once listened in perplexity to a concert promotional message, and then had one of those "light bulb over head" moments when I realized that I was hearing the name of this band...

I did not know this until now, because I had never learned the word before, but Isaan is, literally, Northeast in Sanskrit/Hindi:

ईशान

That spelling is EXACTLY Isaan, minus the tone. The S in Sanskrit is retroflex, which sounds like SH.

So not exactly the same - the exact same spelling would be อีศาน. Moreover, it's a palatal sibilant, not a retroflex sibilant. The Thai spelling is the same as the Pali spelling.

Northwest: พายัพ - Phayap - Pheayoab = Skt va:yav(y)a (วายวฺย or วายว)

Southeast: อาคเนย์ - Aknai - Orknai = Skt a:gneya (อาคฺเนย)

Southwest: หรดี - Radee (No!) - Rodei (Really?) The Thai is horadi [RL]haw[H]ra[M]dii = Skt nairr.iti: (ไนรฺฤตี)

You are absolutely right again, Richard, on the Devanagiri. That's the last time I work from memory on the Devanagiri - Thai character mapping... When you say that the Thai spelling is the same as the Pali spelling, that would mean to me that the Pali spelling and the Sanskrit spelling are different from each other. Is that true?

Back to the original question, "Isaan" in Thai is directly derived from the Sanskrit(ic) word that means Northeast. I concur with Richard on his answer to the question of whether Khmer might be the root. There are words in Thai that come directly from Khmer that appear not have a Sanskritic root. When, however, the Khmer loan word DOES have a Sanskritic "twin", I believe that the Sanskrit word is in fact the root. There are zillions of words in Thai, and presumably in Khmer, that mirror a Sanskritic root word - Thammasat, for example, is spelled Dharma Shastra if you map them directly (though not EXACTLY, character by character). However, I'm not aware of there being much of, if any, migration into the Sanskritic languages from Khmer. The relationship between the two is more like Latin - Spanish. Latin has "fed" Spanish, but the reverse is rarely true.

That said, I'm expecting the next post in this thread to be from RichardW disproving what I've just said...

English - Thai - Khmer

North: อุดร - Udon - Oudor

South: ทักษิณ - Thaksin - Toaksin

East: บูรพา - Burapha - Boupor

West: ปัจฉิม - Batchim - Boschim

Northeast: อีสาน - Esan - Eysan

Northwest: พายัพ - Phayap - Pheayoab

Southeast: อาคเนย์ - Aknai - Orknai

Southwest: หรดี - Radee - Rodei

They're formal words which were loaned from the formal Khmer language, because some of the words such as UDON, it has the "r" which was converted into "n", but in Khmer, it has "r" at the end "Oudor"

Actually, Khmer was just the intermediary. I'm not sure about the non-cardinal compass points, but the four main compass points (N/E/S/W) are straight from the Sanskrit/Devanagiri roots:

उत्तर North - the middle character is a double dental T; the final character is an R, which in Thai becomes an N

दक्षिण South - the middle character is a compound of an aspirated K and a retroflex S. In Thai the first character changes from a D to a T, and the final N is retroflex in Sanskrit. The E is a short consonant.

पूरब East - the second and third characters are pronounced together in Indic languages (Purba)

पश्चिम West - the middle character is a compound of a dental (I think) S and an unaspirated CH. The E vowel is short.

I did not know this until now, because I had never learned the word before, but Isaan is, literally, Northeast in Sanskrit/Hindi:

ईशान

That spelling is EXACTLY Isaan, minus the tone. The S in Sanskrit is retroflex, which sounds like SH.

There's your answer.

I'm as surprised as you are...

S.

I will fly out of BKK Sunday morning, returning Thursday night. I've never dared to use the long-term parking, and am wondering whether those that have have found it to be a viable option. Is it easy to use, and is your car likely to still be intact when you get back?

Taxis are easy, but it would be convenient, especially with a pre-dawn departure and a midnight arrival. Tks in advance.

Hmm. Though I thought I would find it on the official airport site, I did not, so two additional questions:

1. Where the hel_l IS the long-term parking lot, and

2. How much does it cost per day?

Duh.