Xangsamhua

Jihad in support of a global Islamic Caliphate - why wasn't this goal in the open and acted upon in the last few centuries when non believers in Islam co-existed in Islamic countries.

The Caliphate ended with the demise of the Ottoman Empire after the First World War. The Ottomans had taken over the Caliphate from the Egyptian Mamluks in the 16th century. The Sultan in Constantinople was the Caliph.

Although the Ottomans were reasonably tolerant, and their territories became a place of refuge for Jews from the Inquisition and other forms of persecution in Europe, Christians and Jews were second class citizens, subject to the Dhimmi laws.

Billionaire businessman Frank Lowy says Australian multiculturalism has been a "triumph in tolerance" despite the violent Islamic protests which erupted in Sydney last weekend.

The Westfield co-founder, who was born in Czechoslovakia and came to Australia in 1952, delivered a lecture to the Australian Multicultural Council in Canberra on Wednesday evening.

He commended Muslim leaders for their response to the heated demonstrations in Sydney, and said it shows Australia's multicultural society is both strong and mature.

More at http://www.abc.net.a....mc_id=newsmail

The reason Australia's version of multiculturalism has to date been successful is that it's sensible and balanced. It acknowledges the fact that four in every ten Australians are either immigrants or the sons and daughters of immigrants, but also demands that all people accept "the basic structures and principles of Australian society". These are spelt out in the bipartisan National Agenda for a Multicultural Australia as "the Constitution and the rule of law, tolerance and equality, parliamentary democracy, freedom of speech and religion, English as the national language, and equality of the sexes". Not much room for Sharia or the Caliphate here.

A key statement in the Agenda is the following: multicultural policies impose obligations as well as conferring rights: the right to express one's own culture and beliefs involves a reciprocal responsibility to accept the right of others to express their views and values.

A summary of the National Agenda can be found here: http://www.abc.net.a....mc_id=newsmail

Strictly speaking, Santi Asoke is just the Bangkok centre of the Asoke movement. For Bangkokians though - I'm not sure about others - "Santi Asoke" is the widely used generic term.

Dhammakaya and Asoke are very different. It looks to me like Dhammakaya has taken on some Mahayana philosophy whereas Asoke is fairly purist (though Samana Bhodiraksa [Photirak] has his own take on the scriptures sometimes).

Dhammakya's general modus operandum is much closer to that of popular Thai Buddhism, but is packaged in powerful modes of media use (DMCTV), emotional manipulation and fundraising methods similar to the megachurches of evangelical Protestantism. Asoke are no mean users of media also (they have FMTV), but they do not raise funds other than by sale of publications, DVDs, etc and through their supermarkets, recycling and so on. You cannot donate to Asoke until you've visited one of their centres at least seven times, to establish your good intentions, and Asoke monks will never accept money.

It's just my impression, but Dhammakaya seems to be supported largely by Sino-Thais, especially in Bangkok, whereas Asoke has a broader base of support. Research done in the mid-90s indicated that people from Isaan were highly represented among Asoke followers, but that data is now rather old. Asoke has a number of centres in different regions and cities in Thailand.

I have posted in this forum on Dhammakaya and Asoke, the latter mainly through research done by Juliana Essen at the Asoke community in Sisaket, but with reference to the broader aims and practices of the Asoke movement.

http://www.thaivisa....ommodification/

http://www.thaivisa....nd-santi-asoke/

"Going about with matted hair, without food or bath, sleeping on the ground smeared with dust or sitting motionless - no amount of penance can help a person whose mind is not purified. But those whose mind is serene and chaste, whose senses are controlled and whose life is nonviolent - these are the true brahmins, true monks, even if they wear fine clothes."

Dhammapada, 141-142 (Tr. by Eknath Easwaran)

Yes, it seems that ethnocentrism may have trumped the Buddhadharma in the Sri Lankan civil war.

Mind you, I don't know a lot about it, but have heard that some of the clergy expressed some bloodcurdling views.

But I don't know that we could blame Colonel Olcott or the other Buddhist revivalists for that.

Too bad that the those americans could not plant enough buddhist seeds in Sri Lanka, as became painfully obvious during the civil war in Sri Lanka.

Cool username, NDNM.

cool answer, no NDNM because i do not know what that means ( is it a religious thing?)

"Ni dieu, ni maitre" ("neither God nor master"). I shortened it to NDNM.

From Wikipedia, Anarchism and religion:

Anarchists "are generally non-religious and are frequently anti-religious, and the standard anarchist slogan is the phrase coined by the (non-anarchist) socialist Auguste Blanqui in 1880: `Ni Dieu ni maître!’ (Neither God nor master!).

Too bad that the those americans could not plant enough buddhist seeds in Sri Lanka, as became painfully obvious during the civil war in Sri Lanka.

Cool username, NDNM.

As Dr Mahathir Mohamad the former Prime Minister of Malaysia correctly reminded people as

far back as 1994 there was no reason for muslims and and non-muslims to be enemies at all.

It just required tolerance towards the customs and practice of each religion. By allowing that piece

of garbage to remain on you tube did nothing to cultivate such tolerance.

Dr Mahathir, who is probably still viewed in Australia as a Muslim hardliner, in fact tried to walk a middle path between Muslim fundamentalists and liberals in Malaysia. His daughter, Marina, is a leading Malaysian liberal.

Thank you, Hermespan for bringing up the topic of the Buddhist revival in Ceylon and Madame Blavatsky's and Colonel Olcott's involvement in it.

It was Colonel Olcott more than Madame Blavatsky that played an important role in the revival. When the two of them arrived in Galle in 1880 they took refuge in the Triple Gem, becoming the first Westerners to publicly do so. Mme Blavatsky returned to India, but Olcott came back to Ceylon the following year and soon became involved in the Buddhist Revival there. However, as Stephen Protheroe (author of God is Not One) points out:

Despite claims that Olcott initiated the Sinhalese Buddhist Revival, his connection with the movement was, as he himself recognized, neither as originator (credit Mohottivatte Gunananda) nor as culminator (credit Anagarika Dharmapala) but as organizer and articulator. It was Olcott who agitated for Buddhist civil rights, and who gave the revival its organizational shape by founding voluntary associations, publishing and distributing tracts, and, perhaps most important, establishing schools. It was he who articulated most eloquently the "Protestant Buddhism" synthesis. The most Protestant of all early "Protestant Buddhists," Olcott was a culture broker with one foot planted in traditional Sinhalese Buddhism and the other in liberal American Protestantism. By creatively combining these two sources, along with other influences such as theosophy, academic Orientalism, and metropolitan gentility, he helped to craft a new form of Buddhism that thrives today not only in Sri Lanka but also in the United States. http://aryasangha.or...tt-prothero.htm

The Theosophical Society draws on Eastern mysticism and esoteric Buddhism, Hinduism and Sufism. However, although largely a Western phenomenon, its early headquarters were and are still in Adyar, a district in Chennai (Madras). Theosophy also draws on Western mysticism and esoteric religious and philosophical thought. It sits in the mainstream of Perennial Philosophy and has no core doctrines as such. It is non-dogmatic, though a believer in karma would be much more at home in it than an evangelical Christian. The Society publishes extensively Theosophical and non-Theosophical works through its publishing house, Quest Books.

I think a practising Buddhist who is not philosophically dogmatic and who enjoys exploring philosophical questions would feel comfortable in Theosophical study circles and lectures. "Theosophy", meaning "divine wisdom", is closer to Vedanta than Theravada agnosticism, but this didn't seem to worry Olcott and Blavatsky or their Sinhalese hosts.

There's a long thoroughfare in Colombo named after Colonel Olcott. From memory, it runs for quite some distance between the main shopping and business precinct and the Fort railway station. It's Olcott Mawatha (Olcott Road).

Several, I used to visit the TS Bookshop in my university days when it was still located next to the Regent Theatre in Collins Street in the old Theosophical Society building. When I left the Melbourne Catholic Education Office in 1986 to relocate to Queensland my colleagues gave me a generous voucher for purchases at the new TS Bookshop in Russell Street. They knew my interests, and, in those days at any rate, Catholics were not discouraged from looking into other traditions.

Latest I've heard is that the U.S government is negotiating with Egypt for the return of the blind sheik to Egypt (He of the world trade centre bomb plot), which was one of the demands made at the first U.S embassy demo in Cairo. If true the cowardice and incompetence of the current administration has hit new depths.

Here is an interesting link from someone who was removed from their post at the defence department for exposing the modus operandi of the Islamic OIC control tantrum day of rage so accurately that he predicted in advance the course of events after the Danish cartoons were published. Remember Hillary Clinton is very enthusiastically pushing the OIC blasphemy motion at the U.N. It's half an hour long but required viewing to understand what is going on.

http://www.gatesofvi...lamic-rage.html

The full briefing (1hr 14 minutes) is here:

A bit long, but a detailed analysis, well argued. Certainly worth watching; one wonders at the real reason for Stephen Coughlin's non-renewal of contract at the Pentagon.

I was especially interested in the discussion starting at 36 minutes on the part played by politically correct language in confusing and eviscerating one's objectives and strategy by prohibiting core defining terms. Effectively, PC language undefines the core enemy by disallowing any reference to him. Hence, in the report on the Fort Hood killings by Major Hassan, a self-declared Islamist and jihadist, in touch with al-Qaeda, there was no mention of Muslim, Jihad, al-Qaeda, or indeed of Major Hassan himself.

The latter section is eloquent in its analysis of how the US State Department, and Hillary Clinton herself, have been suckered into acceptance of a view on freedom and restraint in speech that is closer to Battered Wife Syndrome ("don't upset me or I'll bash you again") than to anything intended in the First Amendment.

I wondered a bit about Coughlin's frequent reference to an individual Islamic legal text, "Reliance of the Traveler"; however, it appears to have widespread acceptance in the Islamic world.

Sad to say, it seems that the more we know about institutional, legalistic Islam (which is the main substance of Islam in the world), the more threatening it appears to be. Having said that, I exclude Sufi Islam, philosophical Islam and aesthetic Islam. Omar Khayyam, Avicenna, Averroes and the Taj Mahal are not part of the legalistic, totalitarian and literalist cult that is fuelling its aggressive policy in the world today.

"Awareness in the present, free of conditioned reaction.

Isn't this what we should strive for?"

I think it is, Rocky. Awareness informed by understanding of the precepts and the four noble truths.

The metaphysical, ontological, etc will indeed take care of itself, but the searching, the clarification, etc. constitute for some of us an important stage along the way. Like a wooden stage, they give you a platform, a foundation on which to grow your awareness.

But the goal, I think, is to put the concepts and definitions and debates aside and to return to the centre.

The 18th century nun and poet, Ryonen, put it nicely in the last year of her life:

Sixty-six times have these eyes beheld the changing scenes of autumn.

I have said enough about moonlight,

Ask me no more.

Only listen to the voice of pines and cedars, when no wind stirs.

Pathetic! The Daily Mash, that is, not the poor old eccentric bloke.

"According to an online survey, the site's readership mainly consists of university graduates who also read newspapers such as The Independent, The Guardian and The Times." (Wikipedia: The Daily Mash)

I am an atheist, I hate everything that religon stands for, I hate to the bone what it has done to millions of inocent people throughout mans sordid history, for supposidly such a good thing it has been responsible for more death and conflict than any other single thing - why don't people get that ?

I also believe in freedom of speech but that does not give me the right to insult or disrespect someones beliefs but equally these people who are protesting right now need to take a long hard look at themselves and see how a funny video compares to walking into a packed supermarket with a bomb strapped to their waist and blowing up woman and children, if they honestly think that their god approves this behavior then we are lost, I don't know how conflict can be solved throughout the world but I do know what is right and what is wrong

Very soon on our planet something is going to snap, we already see dangerous alliances forming between countries, greed and power has already dealt a serious blow to world economies - what's next ?

I share your pessimism, but I think the world's problems result from ego, especially in the form of envy, greed and ignorance - the very things the Buddha warned us against. These things cause havoc for everyone, those who do wrong and those who have wrong done to them, regardless of whether they are done in the name of religion or of atheism.

The chasm between the top 12 sides in the AFL and the bottom 6 is borne out by the named team below. Gary Ablett is the only player from a side that finished 13th to 18th.

All-Australian Team:

Backs: Sean Dempster (St Kilda), Luke McPharlin (Fremantle), Darren Glass (West Coast)

Half-Backs: Beau Waters (West Coast), Ted Richards (Sydney), Grant Birchall (Hawthorn)

Centres: Trent Cotchin (Richmond), Jobe Watson (Essendon), Dayne Beams (Collingwood)

Half-Forwards: Patrick Dangerfield (Adelaide), Lance Franklin (Hawthorn), Cyril Rioli (Hawthorn)

Forwards: Steven Milne (St Kilda), Tom Hawkins (Geelong), Dean Cox (West Coast)

Rucks: Nic Naitanui (West Coast), Scott Thompson (Adelaide), Gary Ablett (Gold Coast)

I/Ch: Brett Deledio (Richmond), Josh Kennedy (Sydney), Scott Pendlebury (Collingwood), Dane Swan (Collingwood)

Captain: Darren Glass (West Coast)

Vice-Captain: Gary Ablett (Gold Coast)

Thanks for this offer, Godfree.

Are there TNH and/or Advaita groups in Chiangmai?

Green Papaya Sangha practices in the tradition of Thich Nhat Hanh.

Thank you.

After 389 posts the vote against censorship in this case has increased from about 75% to 80%.

It looks like a general belief in freedom of expression is alive and well on Thaivisa.com.

If you have come to believe that the religion or philosophy you believe is the only one then you have misinterpreted the only text you have read. We base our lives on a set of principals and grow from there that is what it's about.

Skimming the thread it looks to me like there's a wide range of viewpoints in a fairly meandering discussion. You seem to have the idea that everyone is dogmatic about their understanding of Buddhism. That's not the impression I get.

You're welcome to put your point of view here, as are any who post in good faith, but I don't think you need to feel pity for any perceived naivety or deludedness of posters here. Those of us who post often to this forum are aware of our different points of view and respect these differences. There's no need for you to worry

So what is your point because since you skimmed you obviously missed the points I made about the former poster NOT about Buddhism or the other posters and it seems more like you have a beef, because I sure don't have.

Maybe you should actually read through instead of skimming and you too will have a better understanding.

I apologize if I misunderstood who you were referring to. However, your statement as follows (post #77) suggests that you were referring to the posters in general:

Looking at this thread and weeping. Some posters here have already decided which religion/life philosophy is the right and therefor the only one. I'm sorry but you are buying into your on twisted dogma.

If we were to go down that path then we could ask ourselves which religion do the developed countries have? It's just as dumb as portraying YOUR religion is the only one.

I read "you are buying into your own twisted dogma" as a reference to "this thread" and "some posters", i.e. tarring a lot of people with the one brush.

Now you're speaking of "the former poster". Which one? Rockyysdt? If so, he can speak for himself, but I think your language is unfair and discourteous.

But as I said, if I've misinterpreted your intentions, I withdraw my comments.

If you have come to believe that the religion or philosophy you believe is the only one then you have misinterpreted the only text you have read. We base our lives on a set of principals and grow from there that is what it's about.

Skimming the thread it looks to me like there's a wide range of viewpoints in a fairly meandering discussion. You seem to have the idea that everyone is dogmatic about their understanding of Buddhism. That's not the impression I get.

You're welcome to put your point of view here, as are any who post in good faith, but I don't think you need to feel pity for any perceived naivety or deludedness of posters here. Those of us who post often to this forum are aware of our different points of view and respect these differences. There's no need for you to worry

Brisbane Lions Reserves defeated Northern Territory Thunder in the Grand Final of the Northeast Australia Football League (Northern Conference).

Lions 21.8.134 def. NT Thunder 10.14.74

The game was played at Yeronga (Brisbane).

Thanks for this offer, Godfree.

Are there TNH and/or Advaita groups in Chiangmai?

The last composition of Zen nun and poet, Ryonen (1797-1863):

Sixty-six times have these eyes beheld the changing scenes of autumn.

I have said enough about moonlight,

Ask me no more.

Only listen to the voice of pines and cedars, when no wind stirs.

.... and, in the recent past, Zen Master Charlotte Joko Beck's responses to an interviewer:

I read your books.

Oh you read. Well, give up reading, O.K.?

Give up reading your books?

Well, they’re all right. Read them once and that’s enough. Books are useful. But some people read for fifty years, you know. And they haven’t begun their practice.

OK, maybe I should take Master Seng Ts'an's advice, but I've just come across some possibly apt comments from Aldous Huxley.

[in Mahayana teaching] Appearances are discriminated by the sense organs, then reified by naming, so that words are taken for things and symbols are used as the measure of reality. According to this view, language is a main source of the sense of separateness and the blasphemous idea of individual self-sufficiency, with their inevitable corollaries of greed, envy, lust for power, anger and cruelty. And from these evil passions there springs the necessity of an indefinitely protracted and repeated separate existence under the same, self-perpetuated conditions of craving and infatuation.

(The Perennial Philosophy, Kindle loc. 2584)

A post which violates Fair Use Policy has been removed from view. When quoting outside sources, please use only the first 3 sentences of the material and then a link.

Sorry, I think that was me.

(I'm sure I've used more than the first three sentences in other threads. )

This was it, in 3 sentences:

At the time of writing, it is unknown whether the protests were planned by those who attacked the embassy. The film has only recently been dubbed into Arabic and promoted on Arabic channels, indicating someone was deliberately trying to provoke an angry mob. Which brings us to the intentions of the filmmakers themselves.

More at http://www.abc.net.a...ed/4261316.html

My brain hurts.

All this thinking and discussing. I don't think I'm up to it.

Maybe better to follow Zen Master Seng Ts'an's advice:

The more talking and thinking,

The farther from truth.

Cutting off all speech, all thought,

There is nowhere that you cannot go.

Returning to the root, we get the essence;

Following after appearances, we lose the spirit.

If for only a moment we see within,

We have surpassed the emptiness of things.

Changes that go on in this emptiness

All arise because of our ignorance.

Do not seek for the Truth;

Religiously avoid following it.

More at http://www.mendosa.com/way2.htm

Chien-chih Seng-ts'an (d. 606 AD) was the Third Zen Patriarch

Just a slight correction the Nazi symbol you refer to is a symbol used by Hindus and Buddhists;originally by the ancient Hindus 5000 years ago. The Nazi's used it to represent their Party

NO IT IS NOT. I know the difference. The red, black and white Nazi flag and t-shirt are quite popular items here and recently some girls attended school and did a presentation dressed up as Hitler and Nazi soldiers.

Yes, the Nazi swastika was a variant on the Hindu-Buddhist one, which could face either right or left, but Simple1 is correct in that the earlier swastika is ancient and is still used as a symbol in those religions.

In fact, there are some well-regarded schools and other charitable institutions in Hong Kong and Singapore run by the Red Swastika Society, a Buddhist-Taoist philanthropic organization. The RSS swastika faces in the opposite direction from the Nazi one.

http://en.wikipedia....wastika_Society