Mr_Dave

I dread the long flights to Asia.

So does most everybody. There are two things you can do to make the long flights less dreadful.

First, travel EVA Airlines and book Evergreen Deluxe Class. This gives you a wider seat, much more leg room, better service, and a special seating section at the front of the plane. The extra cost from Europe/USA/Canada to Asia is roughly 100 Euro/Pounds/Dollars per flight. That extra cost also keeps out the crying children, drunken louts and smelly backpackers who congregate in the economy section.

Second, EVA's hub is in Taipei. Arrange your BKK connection so you have a couple of hours layover at Taipei airport. Walk to the rear of the terminal (away from the departure area) and go up one flight of stairs to the airport hotel. For US$ 10 you can get a hot shower. You'll have time to shave, brush your teeth, change underwear and socks. You'll feel refreshed. The locker room and showers are spotless. There is no time limit. The airport hotel is within the restricted area, so you do NOT need to go through the inspection lanes.

Those two things have made a huge improvement in my comfort on long flights, at a very small cost.

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Then walked out, and waiing on the way, said good night in my best and clearest Thai.

When necessary, I've used the same technique, responding in clear Thai, in a strong voice - using the sort of tone that a senior manager would use with underlyings. I don't go looking for trouble - as you did with your escapade above - but sometimes it approaches me, say a Tuk-Tuk driver who just won't stop walking next to me. I make sure to respond loudly enough for other Thais in the vicinity to hear: motocy boys lounging on the courner, the grilled sausage lady, the tailor with the Singer on the footpath. A few words in clear Thai language is great "repellant" for two-legged mosquitoes.

A Thai person going about their normal business will never approach someone they don't know. If one does, and just so happens to speak suprisingly good english, turn around, and walk away from them.

The best advice on this topic. Thank you, Samran.

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Culture shock was mentioned in passing on this thread, but it is worth emphasizing. The culture differences between Western society and Thailand are immense.

I've lived in five countries on four continents. Thailand is - by far - the most unusual in terms of cultural differences. I thrive on the challenge, and consider every new encounter a fascinating lesson. However, some people will recoil from the never-ending cultural differences. For example: the concept of "face", how Thai people relate to each other, what Thais do and say in the presence of foreigners compared to what they do and say among themselves.

I recommend careful consideration of the huge cultural differences - and your response to them - before you make any committments to Thailand.

That said, I'll be pleased to spend all the rest of my days right here in Thailand. That is, until the Muslims start taking over here. Then I may get very interested in Costa Rica.

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I work so I can say the next letter before the CD plays it and repeat to correct my pronunciation. I have a very thick skull and just need lots of drilling to get something to stick in my brain.

That's a valuable technique. Thanks, Valjean, for mentioning it. I also use this method to be certain I know the consonants in order. Since I don't drive a car here, I just ask my girl friend to say any letter of the alphabet - walking along the street, going down in the lift, you get the picture. Then I say the letter before, the same letter, and the letter after. If any mistakes, she corrects me with unabashed glee at catching the farang. So, it is "sanuk" for her and good learning for me.

I also want to concur with Valjean's comment about "lots of drilling". I've studied many languages - both spoken and written-only (computer and other engineering "languages".) The difficulty of Thai is orders of magnitude above anything I've learned previously. I was not prepared for the difficulty and the length of time it is taking. Lots of drill - plus a patient tutor - is the only way I've found to learn this language.

Learning to recognize the consonants and vowels took an entire year. Included in that year was learning the tone rules and memorizing the consonant classes. One surprising difficulty is that vowels change "shape" depending on their position relative to other consonants. The tone rules were a totally unfamiliar concept to me, but with seemingly endless drill, I've memorized them.

What is still exceedingly difficult is getting the sound of Thai. My tutor and I have studied each other's voices and discussed throat movement, tongue placement, and breath. He wants to learn English as much as I want to learn Thai, so we often compare differences. The key lesson is that Thai-speakers develop different muscles in their voice apparatus than do English-speakers. Starting in middle-age to develop these muscles in my mouth and throat has been very difficult.

There is a psychological barrier, too. Many of the Thai sounds, when parsed to their simple components, sound like "baby talk" to us. My brain keeps rebelling, "Grown men don't make sounds like that!!!" Well, in Thailand they do. Learning Thai has been as much about changing my thinking as about training my throat and mouth in new ways.

Many people - here in Thailand and "back home" - have inquired what I find to keep me busy now that I am retired. Just learning Thai language is a full-time job!

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I got through the consonant alphabet pretty easily, but I'm finding the vowel alpahabet a bit harder to remember

Exactly! I've been studying Thai language for 18 months now, and still struggle with the vowels ("sa-ra"). The vowels are much more difficult because many are not even close to any sounds in English.

That learning method that worked for me is the same method that was used in Thai schools a generation ago. Learn one or two vowels, then learn assorted words which use those vowels. Then move on to another vowel or two, and words that use those vowels. The specific book for this is "Learn to Read with Manee". It is out of print, but is available free on the Internet from this site: http://www.learningthai.com/books/manee/index.html

Be prepared: it's not easy. I tried CDs and Internet voice files, but didn't make much progress learning the correct vowel sounds. I attended a good language school in Bangkok for 3 months, but my vowel sounds still didn't sound "Thai". Then I hired a private tutor who coached me 5 days a week, 1-2 hours per day, for a year. Now, my vowel sounds are just, barely, sounding like they might be Thai language! So I have one more recommendation for you: "Kopiko" brand, coffee-flavoured candy, is great for the sore throats you will get from practicing the Thai vowels.

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I didn't realise how difficukt it would be to find words in my dictionary if i don't know what order the letters are listed.

any help appreciated.

A better dictionary is the one by Benjawan Poomsan Becker. The Thai-to-English section displays the 44 Thai letters in order, at the bottom of every page. Each page shows the letters on that page in bold. But, sorry, the font is very small.

The Becker dictionary is a bit larger than pocket size. About the size of two decks of playing cards. 425 Baht at Asia Books and most other bookstores in Thailand. Or you can order on the web for international delivery.

thai keyboard layout that hovered on my screen so i knew which keys represented which letters.. i can't find it now.. did i just dream it?

Rikker -

Wonderful post, really superb.

I've just memorized the Thai alphabet, with a Thai man coaching me thru the tones.

But even he couldn't ascribe any reason for the order of the "ax-on".

Your post is the first explanation I've seen that explains why what is where.

Thank you for taking the time to prepare that message.

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...I had excellent experience at Thai Language Achievement School in Silom.

...Attended 3 months in 2004.

Curriculum well-organized and easy to follow.

Teachers thoroughly prepared and instruction is clear.

Everything neat, clean, well-organized, but the chairs in classrooms are Thai-size = a bit small and low.

Other than that, I have only good things to say about this school.

...Schedule is intense: every morning, afternoon, or evening (your choice), five days a week, for a month.

They don't offer any more relaxed schedules than that, so if you just want a few hours a week, this is not the school.

Teachers are available for privates, but I never took privates.

...I repeated level 1 to review.

Turned out to be wise decision - made it much easier to progress to level 2.

Most other students went directly from level 1 into level 2 and they really floundered.

No discount for repeating a level, but I certainly would do that again, probably at every level, to learn thoroughly.

...Location: Bangkok Silom, midway between skytrain Sala Daeng and Bangkok Bank - opposite Patpong.

Also, close to subway Silom station.

Web site . . . http://www.tlaschool.com/index2.html

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You would think PeptoBismol would be a huge seller over here -- but I can't find it anywhere. Maybe there are similar medicines locally, but I haven't found any.

I agree. PeptoBismol has worked well for me, too. There are local equivalents here. Gelusil and Mag 77 are two that I've found effective. Available in any pharmacy, including Villa, Tesco, etc.

Click to enlarge.

Will be coming to Thailand soon. Everytime I come, I seem to contract this "stomach thing" to some degree.

Excellent question - thanks for posting.

I live in Bangkok. I eat just about everything, from street food and noodles, to fancy farang food. I take ice in my drinks. One thing that immediately made a big improvement is washing my hands frequently with anti-bacterial soap. Wash 6-8 times a day. Not compulsive, just more frequently than before I arrived. Anti-bacterial soap available in all Villa/Tops/Tesco/Carrefor markets. Since I started washing my hands more often, never a problem.

Here is one common brand you'll find in most stores. Click to enlarge.

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I thought this might be an invaluable thread to quite a few people working in Thailand or owning a business with Thai employees

Tippaporn - Great topic. Thank you for starting this thread.

I managed employees for 40 years. Now I am retired and living in Bangkok. Here I have two employees, personal staff, both part-time. They are superb employees. Here are 8 lessons I've learned with my Thai staff:

1. Pay often.

My staff don't work every day, but I pay them every day they do work. Both also have other jobs - where they normally get paid at the end of the month. I've observed that getting money frequently is very important to them.

2. In Thailand, an employeer is also a god-father.

Thais look to their employeer to take care of them in many ways. If one comes in with a sore throat, I give them throat lozanges. If the other cuts her finger on the job, I instruct her to wash with warm water and soap, while I get the antiseptic and a band-aid. I do not accept "mai-pen-rai". Instead I clean and bandage the cut. I've learned that the more I look after my staff, the more they look after me.

3. Allow for Thai-time.

If they are late, I smile and accept that their time "sense" is different than mine. I've never criticized either of them for being late, and I never will. But I always make a back-up plan in case they are late or don't appear for some critical event. I never depend on any Thai to arrive on time, but, surprisingly, most Thais I deal with, including my staff, do arrive on time, most of the time.

4. Always take the blame.

If a glass of water spills on the floor, I am the first to say, "kho-tord, kho-tord", as if it is my fault, even if it is not. Embarassment carries a huge price for Thais, but very little for me. I've learned to bear any embarassing situation myself.

5. Listen to their talk about their families, and, as appropriate, provide something for the families.

Last year the man and his wife had a baby daughter. I bought a car-safety-seat for the baby. My woman employee does not own a camera. I took some pleasing photos of her to show to her mother and daughter on her next trip up-country.

6. Provide extra food, beyond what's expected on the job.

I've learned that food is a "currency" of sorts in Thai relationships. If they see some food, and comment on it, I always offer it to them. The woman commented on some bananas, "Where you buy glu-ay-hom?" I offered the bananas to her. By the way she ate, it was obvious she was hungry that day. I don't mean starving, just hungry. A few weeks later she brought me a small watermellon. She knows I like watermellon. Giving - and accepting - food, is a Thai way of exchanging favours and obligations.

7. Borrowing money is a test of trust.

The man asked me for 2,000 baht "until end of month". I didn't ask why, I just gave the money to him, and I gave 3,000 baht, not 2,000. He was surprised, almost shocked. I said, "Maybe you need more tomorrow, okay, no problem." He was highly relieved. At the end of the month, immediately after being paid from his full-time job, he came to pay me back. It was a two-way test: he passed my test, and I passed his.

8. Generosity - "jai-dee" - is more highly valued in Thai culture than we Westerners can imagine.

Thais talk constantly about jai-dee when describing people. When I go shopping at Tesco with my woman staff, I always ask "What you need today?" She always says, "No need anything, ka." So I pick a bottle of shampoo off the shelf, or a bar of scented soap, and hold it out to her, "Do you like this?" Polite Thais always refuse the first offer, so I pick out something else and offer again. Quickly she understands I mean it. At first she picked a different shampoo, and the next time a different soap. But then, at another time she selected something I never would have thought of, a bottle of fabric softener for her personal laundry, "Can make cloths haawm (smell sweet)". It was something she never would spend her own money to buy. I learned that providing small luxuries is highly appreciated.

Overall, I treat my two Thai staff not like employees, but like family. They see themselves in a position somewhere between my children and my younger brother and sister. I take care of them - and, in small, indirect ways - help them to take care of their families, too. That is most important to them. In turn, they treat me as somewhere between a father and an older brother. They respect me, they obey my wishes, and they take care of me with a loving faithfulness that is wonderful to experience.

Final note: I certainly am not saying that all Thai people are like these two. They are exceptional. I observed both of them at their other jobs for about 6 months before I hired either of them. I know what to look for in choosing employees, and I looked very, very, carefully before I offered jobs to these two. I learned years ago to be very cautious before taking on any new employee. That is even more important in a different culture like Thailand.

I hope these comments are useful to other expats here, and I look forward to reading other comments on this topic.

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My favorite is Duilio's on Sukhumvit 49 - about 100 meters North of Suk.

Delicious, rich-flavor mozzarella, not processed cheese.

Wood oven baked until edges are just crispy.

Also try the contadina salad - served warm.

Duillio's have their own delivery service and they also deliver via Food-by-Phone.

http://www.duilios.com/

Also see this page for "best-Bangkok-pizza:

http://www.dininginthailand.com/best-bangkok-pizza.asp

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In hindsight, i think i would have started with the reading and writing as it makes it a lot easier to pronounce.

I agree with Wuggiman.

I attended four months of conversation classes at two Thai language schools in Bangkok.

I still could not understand everyday speach.

Then a year ago I found a private teacher.

He insisted that I learn to read and write.

Only then did I start to make progress.

Now I know that the only way to learn the correct tones is to learn to read the Thai script.

English and phonetic alphabets are not capable of correct transliteration.

Yes, learning to read Thai is difficult, but it's not impossible.

To learn a few phrases conversation classes in a typical language school can be fun.

But the only way to really understand and pronounce the tones is with a private teacher who will correct your mistakes and drill the sounds over and over again.

And the only way to understand the tones - and the tone rules - is to learn to read.

As a very new expat in Thailand, I need to know urgently the best way of bringing an income in another currency into Thailand without the necessity of having cheques posted.

The most reliable way to move money quickly -- anywhere in the world -- is wire transfer.

Sometimes this is referred to as SWIFT transfer.

In America they call it Fed Funds wire.

Any and every bank can handle a wire transfer to any other bank anywhere in the world.

The fee is not related to the amount of money transferred.

About Euro 15-40 for each transaction.

Western Union is another option, and very quick, but the fees are very high: a percentage of the amount.

The monk at my local wat assures me that, when global-meltdown happens ...[snip] ... my money will be totally secure in Baht in a Thai bank-account. ...[snip]...  thinks the Baht is a good bet for 2006.

Ricardo, excellent topic.

Your bank account may be safe, but the purchasing power will be washed away on the tide.

The polite word is "inflation".

A more accurate concept is, as you indicated, "global, melt-down".

All fiat currencies - not gold or silver - are headed for very stormy times.

The details are beyond the scope of this forum, but a Google search will reveal many sources.

As for your friend, the monk, money would seem of little concern to any monk, would it not?

But we can easily observe that Buddah images in the wats are covered in thick layers of gold, not baht paper.

Hmmmm...

The Baht sinking? Source?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wise question.

Source is the front window of every gold shop in Thailand.

For thousands of years, gold has been a steady, reliable, store of value.

In ancient Rome, a common gold coin could buy a nice toga.

In Bangkok today, a similar weight of gold will buy a nice suit.

Most people look at gold prices and think, "The price of gold is going up."

That's exactly wrong.

The value of the counter-currency is going down.

So it takes more currency (baht, euro, dollar, yen, peso), to buy the same amount of gold.

If you wish to look at details, here is one source . . . http://www.oanda.com/convert/fxhistory

I went back to 1999.

The Thai baht has been sinking steadily since then.

There is nothing, anywhere, to indicate a change in the trend in the next few years.

I welcome reading any knowledgable counter claims.

And, thank you, Ricardo, for starting a topic which will become increasingly important to all of us with an interest in Thailand

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I haven't been to LOS yet, and posts about noise like this may keep me from going. I'm looking for a cheap place to retire, but peace and quiet are a prerequisite. ...[snip] ...a person should be able to find SOMEplace quiet to live..??

"Pbrane" brings up an important point.

All these posts about noise are an indicator of where people actually live.

Here's the clue: In general, the more you pay (for rent/housing), the less the noise.

I live in an expensive area of Bangkok, which, in turn, is the most expensive city in LOS.

There is very little noise in this neighborhood - aside from tuk-tuks and some condo construction.

If I go down the soi, at night, there are some bars, and, yes, music/noise from them.

Unless I walk to that specific area of the soi, there is none of the noise I read about in other posts here.

On the other hand, in another small soi is a cheap housing area.

Really cheap apartments.

I've only walked there once - just to look around.

The noise was constant: boom-boxes, TV blaring, kids shouting, adults not quite shouting - that wouldn't be Thai - but many loud, loud, voices.

Once I left that particular soi, and returned to the high-rent district, the noise level went right down.

My solution to noise in LOS: pay more, get less.

After hearing all the advice, I might want to marry a Philippino, live in Thailand, and vacation in Bali.

Bret has got it exactly right - the best of everything.

Filipino women, ahhhh, but nowhere in the PI is anywhere I'd want to live.

I don't even want to visit there again.

Having lived in Thailand, yes, in certain areas the living is superb for a white man with a bit of money to spend.

Am I in the ballpark for tips?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, you are in the ballpark.

Best advice I've ever received for good service in Thailand, "tip early and often".

So I start tipping as soon as I arrive: not excessive, but often.

For bellboys who carry bags to room, 100 baht, same as you.

My bags have rolling wheels so easy to do myself, but I want to make friends,

rather than save a few baht.

I give 40-50 baht to room maid every day.

If I don't see her one day, then I make up for it next day, or day after that.

Or I will walk down the hall and hand the tip to her.

Word gets around than I am "jai-dee", and they take care of me.

If one maid, she gets it all (40-50 baht every day).

If two maids make up my room, then 20 baht each per day.

I plan ahead to have small bills available.

I stay long time - month or more - and always get everything I ask for:

extra towels, extra water, extra pillow, more shampoo, etc.

Plus, because I use the same hotels again and again, I actively look for ways to tip the staff: word gets around and I get treated very well.

Any small service or favor, minimum 50 or, more usually, 100 baht.

Examples:

Reception staff writes address of some location for taxi driver in Thai.

Bellboy provides me with hotel umbrella, saving me trip back to my room.

Doorman goes out into the rain to flag down a taxi for me.

In Thailand, "money talks".

I've learned that a little money, handed in person, with a smile, says a lot about you to Thai people.

I stayed at City Beach hotel in October, 2005.

Everything was adequate, but nothing special.

I forget the room rate, but I remember thinking it was a fair price.

The rooms are clean.

The room size is comfortable.

There was plenty of hot water in the shower.

Desk staff was reasonably pleasant and helpful.

Included in the room package I purchased was dinner and breakfast.

The dinner was a selection from a limited menu of Thai food.

The food was adequate, but portions small, so we went for pizza later in the evening.

Next time I would by-pass the dinner package.

Breakfast was an all-you-want buffet.

Again, food was adequate for hotel in this price range.

The swimming pool was moderately small and not very inviting.

Overhead are concrete construction supports for the building.

Like swimming inside a parking garage.

Best thing about City Beach is combination of superb location and fair price.

For those reasons, I'd stay there again.

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Thohts - Those maps are very useful. Thank you for posting.

Any good recommendations for a Thanksgiving dinner this year?  As close to the real thing as possible would be nice.  With turkey and all the other traditional fare.  Where and about how much should I pay?  Will I need to book somewhere in advance?

Imperial Queen's Park Hotel in Sukhumvit 22 is advertising an authentic Yankee-style, Thanksgiving dinner: including clam chowder,roast turkey with traditional stuffing, pumpkin and apple pie, and all the rest.

It's a buffet - all you can eat.

I eat at the Queen's Park dining room once or twice a week.

The food is consistently excellent.

For farang/European foods, they do get the flavors just right.

There are buffets at every meal - breakfast, lunch and dinner.

The variety is huge.

The regular menu offerings (not buffet) are equally good.

Making a reservation would be smart.

But, knowing the level of service at that hotel, if you didn't have a reservation, they would most likely smile and find seating for you - but you might have a wait.

Like everything else at Queen's Park Hotel, it's not cheap: 750++.

Maybe cheaper for children, I don't know.

If you want more details, send PM to me, and I'll ask next time I'm there.

http://www.imperialhotels.com/queenspark/dining.html

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Rembrandt Hotel in soi 18: You've made a fine choice of hotel and location.

Soi 18 is pleasant, quiet, and safe.

Also, you will be walking distance to Asoke for skytrain and subway.

I second the recommendation by think_too_mut of Jim Thompson House.

It's fascinating and beautiful to see.

Tours are available in English and Thai - take your pick.

However, Jim Thompson House is NOT "nearby" the Rembrandt Hotel.

It is near National Stadium and requires a change of skytrain at Siam station.

Yet, highly worth the effort.

Emporium Mall is big, fancy and nearby, but I've never found it interesting in any way.

When I have visitors from up-country, I take them right to MBK.

They are always delighted, and, in a good way, overwhelmed.

MBK is in the same area as Jim Thompson House.

Start at Jim Thompson House in the cooler morning.

Then MBK for lunch - food court on 5th floor has something to please every taste.

Soi 22 (to me, a walking distance from the Rembrandt), "Seafood & Market Restaurant".

That seafood restaurant is in Soi 24, NOT soi 22.

I don't recommend walking, not at all.

2 kilometres on Sukhumvit - in the worst of the pollution - and then 1.5 kilometres down soi 24 - another busy soi with lots of cars.

No matter how devoted she is to you, I can't imagine a Thai woman walking all that way and maintaining her smile.

If you go to the seafood restaurant in soi 24, take a taxi.

Within easy walking distance - about 100 meters North from Rembrandt in soi 18 - is a very nice restaurant: Admiral's Pub.

Open air restaurant with Scandinavian/European & Thai food.

If you are visiting on Sunday night that is pizza night: make your own pizza.

Tomato sauce for farangs, tom-yom sauce for the locals, fun for everyone.

http://www.admiralspub.dk/index.html

For bars, there are none right near the Rembrandt.

There's Cowboy and Soi 33 in the area, but the wife might not like that.

Safer locations would be Dubliner Pub (Irish), Bull's Head, Londoner, Robin Hood (British), and Bourbon Street (American).

Should the wife come to find you in any of those places, you would not be embarassed in the least.

If you're a farang-size man, you might appreciate the Robinson's department store on Sukhumvit 19, next to Asoke.

They always have a selection of farang-size, mens' clothes at decent prices.

Finally, for a 12-year-old, you would create a memory forever with a Segway tour of Bangkok

I'll prepare a separate message about that and post to this forum topic.

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