sonicdragon

My ex-wife recently passed away in Thailand

I live in in the UK with our two children (14/15 years old)

It was her wish to leave her assets to the children. I am insure if she made a will.

There are 2 houses/land, one plot of land, one condo/apartment, and at least one life insurance policy.

All paper documentation is now held by the family.

None of her family speak English so communication is hard, but by using Google Translate we have established that they are happy to cooperate with the probate process.

Therefore I would like to find a probate lawyer who can speak good English, and handle all the necessary details, liaising with the family where needed, the authorities, and obviously me too, to ensure that everything is done properly.

Thanks in advance.

On 2/2/2021 at 2:02 PM, Bradmeister said:

Sonic Dragon, 

 

What a heart wrenching story...  if you are truly committed to your kids, you're getting on a flight ASAP.

 

You will need to suffer all the rigamorols of COE, testing and quarantine.

 

1. Retain an attorney immediately

2. Ask your ex to fill out a will and last testament.

3 Have a power of attorney signed to you for 

transitioning all the properties to your children 4. Have attorney accompany you to all the districts and to Chon Buri, should your ex's condition deteriorate.

 

My father died of lung cancer.... it came quick, and we bearly had the estate settled in time before distant relatives challenged the last will and testament. 

 

That was pre-covid.... Times are bad now, and its still going to get worse. Desperate people will do desperate things. 

 

Best of Fortune. 

Thank you and many condolences for your father.

Unfortunately I don't have the option to get on a flight any time soon. For one thing, there is no one to look after the kids and pets while I'm away, and, due to covid, I would have to quarantine for 14 days in Thailand, and potentially again on my return. 

I have spoken to a Thai lawyer and they basically advised the same as you - she can transfer the title of the properties to the children - for this we need to get the kids' signatures on some document witnessed at the Thai Consulate here (which is actually closed due to covid at the moment, so that's something else), and they also advised that she should make a will. 

27 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

The land and properties can be put in the children's names at the Land office by changing the chanote from your ex-wifes name theirs.  This will also keep it from being sold until they come of age.  I did that with the house I had built and the property purchased upon my divorce from the Thai ex-wife.  The land and the house were put in our daughters name so that the ex could not sell it and our daughter would always have something here in Thailand.  

Thank you ???? Does that apply only to the houses, or the condo too ?  Is it something she can do with a single trip to the Land Office ?  Is it กรมที่ดิน (https://www.dol.go.th/) ?

Hey Thaivisa, it's been quite a while since I posted !

Me and my Thai ex-wife have two children, 13/14 years old. We were divorced in 2016 and me and the kids have lived here in the UK since then. The kids were born in Bangkok. They have Thai (and UK) birth certificates but do not (currently) have Thai passports.

Sadly my ex has recently been diagnosed with late stage lung cancer. She's only 50 and is a lifelong non-smoker. The prognosis isn't good.

She owns a few properties in Thailand: 3 houses in Bangkok and a condo in Chonburi.

She is somewhat estranged from her family, and she does not want any of her property to go to them. She wants it to go to our kids. Is this even possible, given their age ? If not, what are the alternatives (a Trust or something similar ?) She has suggested that we re-marry (I am single), but I don't think that would solve the problem either ?

I've told her that she has to find a lawyer, but due to her condition, she is not really feeling up to it at the moment. So I would like to try to get some advice on here and maybe contact a lawyer myself.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

SD

Dont use DHL

Why not ? I've sent things (but never clothes) to Thailand by DHL before without much drama. Which one do you suggest ? My company also has a Fedex account I think.

There have been many reports on this forum about packages (not documents, but goods) being 'inspected' by Thai customs and extortionate fees being demanded when sent via DHL or Fedex. Better results have been noted by TV members using their home country's mailing service. Check the Royal Mail Parcel Force website, it may be just as quick and almost certainly far less hassle for the receiver (and you).

Good luck.

Thanks, but I assumed those problems only occur when the duty/taxes are charged are paid by the receiver/consignee ? I am going to use my employer's DHL account and use the "duty paid by sender" option. I suppose that means customs has carte-blanche to charge whatever they like, but my employer is a fairly big customer of DHL and I guess customs might handle that kind of situation more "by the book" ?

Just thinking outside the box here - dismiss it if it seems flawed (it probably is).

Send the clothes direct to the hotel in Mexico addressed to the cousin for her to collect on arrival? Gives you a bit more time to send it by Royal Mail. No idea if workable or not or what customs dues in Mexico are like.

Just a thought.

Thanks Simon, from what I gather there is 35% duty plus 15% VAT and customs admin fees payable in Mexico, and I would also have to deal a "she wants to wear the clothes on the plane" comment from my wife probably......that is, if I can even contact her. She isn't answering her Thai phone (rings through to voicemail) - the plane landed nearly 5 hours ago according to the airline website. She went completely ballistic yesterday - the last thing she said as she went through to security was "Next month you come to Thailand and take the children. I not come back to England" and she switched her phone off. She has freaked out a bit like that before (four times, I think, in 10 years), and those times she got back to normal within a couple of days and never said another thing about it ! I also have no way to contact the cousin so I think I just have to bite the bullet and send it out by courier to Thailand first thing tomorrow.

Dont use DHL

Why not ? I've sent things (but never clothes) to Thailand by DHL before without much drama. Which one do you suggest ? My company also has a Fedex account I think.

If you can send it using standard Royal Mail then mark as 2nd hand clothing. If it has to be a courier then you are more likely to be inspected so be straight and include the receipt. There is no "right" or "wrong" in this as we are talking about customs in a corruptible country (for reference this is not Thai-bashing, the same applies to many similar countries around the world).

Thanks. I think it has to be courier due to the time. My wife's cousin is going to Mexico on Saturday. She ordered the clothes especially for her holiday (according to my wife), so I can't really just do what the other poster said and say "no problem, your cousin has other clothes to wear"

Firstly, sorry about the above

Am I missing anything ?

Yes, what you are missing is the strength to say ... "no problem, your cousin has other clothes to wear. Next time you are here we can send them over.'

Let me guess for a second that you paid for the clothes and not your wife's cousin?

In not, then the dynamics do change a little ... but not a lot.

No, my wife's cousin paid for them.

Boy am I in the dog-house ! I took the wife and kids to the airport this morning for their trip back to Thailand for the school holidays. At check-in the wife informed me I had forgotten to bring the box of clothes she ordered from a shop here last week, for her cousin who is going on holiday next weekend (of course, it's all my fault). The bottom line is: I have to send a 2.5Kg box of new clothes direct to my wife's cousin in Thailand ASAP (the cousing lives quite far away). They are all packed in the original box from the shop and have the original invoice - total value around 130 UK pounds (as per the invoice, so around 6500 baht). I'm thinking to use DHL (my workplace has it's own DHL account so I can send it duty paid by sender to hopefully minimise delays clearing customs and to avoid the cousin having to pay taxes). Then I'll reimburse my workplace. Is there anything else I need to consider ? I thought about unpacking it all and sending it as used clothing (personal effects) but I thought that may end up causing problems with customs (and the wife & her cousin). If I use the original invoice from the shop and send it with DHL al, packed in the original shop box, I hope they will just charge whatever the "standard duty/tax" is, with a minimum of delay. Am I missing anything ?

Any advice would be welcome.

As an epidemiologist I have studied the evidence presented by the many investigations into the link between mobile phone use and adverse health conditions. There is no compelling evidence of a link. On the contrary, the evidence points to there being no link.

On the other hand, the main reason for not getting a 6-7yr old child a mobile phone is to not encourage the consumerism and mine-is-better-than-yours cult.

UK medical school is a sick elitist joke.

Training the doctors and nurses of the future is not a joke.

Most doctors and nurses that work for the NHS in the UK seem to be imported from overseas.

Easier and cheaper to train as a doctor in India then return to the UK to work.

The fact that some NHS doctors trained abroad does not take away from the fact that UK medical schools are among the most rigorous, effective and well-respected trainers of future medical professionals in the world.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

The main reason for the NHS employing foreign-trained doctors is supply and demand - graduates from UK medical schools still have close to 100% employment. However, many doctors who complete their foundation years in UK hospitals (F1 and F2) then go abroad for better employment opportunities or back to their home countries. This gap is then filled with doctors trained overseas. Currently there is pressure on the government to do something about this, as there are problems with both the standard of training and spoken English with some of these doctors. Having said that, it is quite rare for a doctor above the grade of "senior house officer" (which is still a junior doctor) to be trained overseas - those positions (registrars and consultants) are usually UK-trained and when you are treated in hospital your case is overseen by them.

Whilst I don't doubt the expertise of the British medical schools, the last couple of visits to NHS hospitals was truly awful.

Unfortunately the quality of care in the NHS has gone down in most people's eyes. This is a result of

1. Cuts in the NHS budget.

2. An increasing population.

3. A dramatic increase in the "compensation culture".

UK medical school is a sick elitist joke.

Elitist ? Yes, as a result of the UK government's policies on UK university funding over the last 15 years or so.

A Joke ? That's absurd - UK medical training is among the best in the world.

<snip>Now, if two students meet at medical school, one with 5m (and the strings) having been to a school lower than an international school (not the worst schools) and the other with no money but an international school education. How much would the international one be at an advantage?

I feel that I'm in somewhat of a qualified position to comment on this, as I work part-time at one of the largest medical schools in the UK. I sit on several committees within the school, two of which deal with "student education" matters. Having reflected on this today, I have the following thoughts:

1. The majority of medical students come from fairly well-off families, as compared to the general student population. Someone who is broke may find it hard to fit it in (dependent on the individual's personality of course).

2. Medical students who don't have a pot to pi$$ in will have a very difficult time because their expenses (in addition to tuition fees) are higher than the average students - for example in their clinical placements they will often have to travel far or pay for temporary accomodation on top of their normal term-time accomodation.

3. The majority of those with an international school education from overseas will come from wealthy families - either chldren of working expatriate Brits in high-flying jobs, or children from extremely wealthy overseas families. Someone with an international school education, yet quite poor, is unusual. They might find it hard to fit in, though this would, in the end, be determined by their personality more than anything else, I would think.

4. There is a small minority of foreign students (not just medics) that come from families with moderate means and who didn't go to an international school, but instead went to a middle-of-the-road private school that gave them the qualifications they needed to get into UK medical school. These students tend to be very very bright and do very very well, as they are aware of the value of education, and they don't spend what money they have on frivolous things.

Bottom line: I don't think there is a clear advantage in having money and a non-international school education, compared to having an international school education and very little money. However the one with very little money would be at a disadvantage if it were so little that they couldn't engage in a moderate amount of social activity and pay for the necessary normal living expenses.

Why would he be a foreign student?

If this is due to the qualifications needed, at this point in time I will almost definitely send him to a secondary school that does igcse's or some kind of other international equivalent.

<snip>

No, it's because of his residence in the period prior to starting the university course - and moving back to the UK a few years before university begins does not solve it. As Guesthouse says, there are exceptions, but certainly in the case where someone retired early to Thailand, they would not be able to send their kids back to the UK and get home/EU fees.

Well, I didn't know that. I'll look for some more details on it, cheers.

I think the rules are that :

1. You have to be a UK or EU national

and

2. You have to have lived in the UK/EU for 3 years prior to the start of the course (ie been "ordinarily resident")

and

3. The main purpose of living in the UK/EU for the prior 3 years must NOT be for full time education during any part of those 3 years.

Basically, you can't just go back to the UK for the final 3 years of education - if you want to go straight from school to university then you have to go back 6 years before. There may be some loopholes around these laws, but I think that's the intention of the law as it presently stands, though I'm sure it's more complicated that this.

But you understand that he will be classed as a foreign student if he went back to the UK for university ?

That's not always entirely true.

If the applicant moved as a minor overseas due to a parent being assigned by a UK employer to work outside the UK then the application will be accepted as a UK resident.

Right, but I suspect that doesn't apply to the vast majority of TV posters in general (and to this thread in particular).

Why would he be a foreign student?

If this is due to the qualifications needed, at this point in time I will almost definitely send him to a secondary school that does igcse's or some kind of other international equivalent.

<snip>

No, it's because of his residence in the period prior to starting the university course - and moving back to the UK a few years before university begins does not solve it. As Guesthouse says, there are exceptions, but certainly in the case where someone retired early to Thailand, they would not be able to send their kids back to the UK and get home/EU fees.

I don't know anything about

Its just regarding the future outlook. A couple of posters on various threads have said they are now retired, 2 were 39, one was 40 and brit1984 stopped work to bring up his child at 27. If my children could retire at that age, I would be very happy. You very rarely hear people doing this in the UK.

But presumably the people on here who got to the position where they could retire to Thailand at 40 did so from the UK or other western country ? I doubt there are many who were brought up in Thailand, went to a non-international school, but were able to make it themselves, in Thailand, to be able to retire at 40 ? My bet is that most of these people got a good education in the UK (or other "western" country), got a good job (and/or started their own business) and then were able to retire to Thailand at 40 ? Without that education it is unlikely they would have made it to that position.

It's not that I'm against working, but not having to work is an excellent option.

Regarding my sons future. I am happy for him to go anywhere in the world for a good university education. This I dont mind paying through the nose for. It was the thought of paying 400-600k a year for kindergarten 2 that was making me question its value.

If I could chose for him, he would be a doctor. A profession that can be taken anywhere and IMO a truly admiral profession. But, he will be his own person and chose what he wants.

Except go in the forces.

But you understand that he will be classed as a foreign student if he went back to the UK for university ? Right now that costs around 100,000 pounds, for the five years just for tuition alone as a foreign student. By the time he goes to university I expect these fees will have at least doubled or trippled. Even for non-science degrees the tuition fees are 12,000 pounds per year or more. And then there is the cost of accommodation and other living expenses - current guidance, for students living outside London, is close to 10,000 per year. So you are looking at 150,000 to get your son through medical school in the UK, just based on current costs.

FWIW I don't see the point of kindergarten at all, unless you and your wife are working.

.....

The notion of moving back to the uk if you cannot afford an international school is just plain ridiculous. Life in Thailand for me is just that, life. In the uk it was a slog and a rat race. Comparative to the uk, my disposable income here is huge, my lifestyle is much improved and my general enjoyment off life has improved.

The way I see it, my "general enjoyment of life" is completely dependent on my children's quality of life, their education and their long-term outlook. I would sacrifice anything for them and if I didn't think I was doing my absolute best for them given my own circumstances and resources, then I would change whatever was necessary to do so.

I agree. That is one of the reasons we came to Thailand. Yes, the education is of a lower standard, but the cost of living a good lifestyle is much cheaper. More importantly the ability for me to fund and help my child to be able to get a good job / start a business is easier.

I said it before, so many graduates in the uk with limited opportunities because of the lack of jobs.

For me,

Quality of life - Thailand wins

Education - UK wins

Long term outlook - Thailand wins.

Look at the posters on here, many retiring at 40. How often does that happen in the UK?

Do you anticipate that your children will go to university in Thailand or the UK (if they want to) ? I presume Thailand...and also that you expect them to forge a career or business in Thailand ? If so, then we don't have much to argue over.

One thing I would say though, is that the outlook for UK university graduates, who obtain a good degree from one of the better universities (say the Russell 20), the outlook is, and will remain, very bright indeed. One problem with "university education" in the UK is that there a so many poor universities these days. Another factor is the subject studied. In medicine there is close to 100% employment rate across the board. The same can't be said of classics - you might struggle to get a job at all with a 2:2 from Roehampton but companies would be falling over themselves to take you on with a first from Cambridge.

Edit: I don't think I really got your point about retiring at 40. For singles and couples, of course Thailand is a great place to retire to. But for those with kids, or intending to have kids, unless they wanted their kids to integrate into Thai society as much as possible and live there for the foreseeable future, I don't get it.

.....

The notion of moving back to the uk if you cannot afford an international school is just plain ridiculous. Life in Thailand for me is just that, life. In the uk it was a slog and a rat race. Comparative to the uk, my disposable income here is huge, my lifestyle is much improved and my general enjoyment off life has improved.

The way I see it, my "general enjoyment of life" is completely dependent on my children's quality of life, their education and their long-term outlook. I would sacrifice anything for them and if I didn't think I was doing my absolute best for them given my own circumstances and resources, then I would change whatever was necessary to do so.

I think you summed it up at the end! Good parenting will be just as important, probably more than, the education they receive.

You should be providing the best education you can afford...its really that simple..

"Would you pay 400k for a state school in Farangland?"......yes If could afford it, without question...

Not if it meant having to work so many hours that I hardly saw my child and not if it meant no overseas travel so they couldn't experience different cultures. Like I said, being a good parent is just as important as an education as to what type of person the child turns out to be.

I don't know if overseas travel is such a good thing in itself. I've lived all over the world and I agree that to "experience different cultures" is a great thing for anyone - but it depend what you mean by "experience". A few weeks holiday in India (for example) isn't going to give a child a good experience or understanding of Indian culture. I would suggest that living in the UK would serve you better in that regard In fact that's one of the factors I omitted from my post above (#95 above) - the UK is a very cosmopolitan society and coupled with a UK education (free or private) along with good parenting (of course) can make for a very well-rounded young adult.

On the other hand, Thailand isn't very cosmopolitan at all, so if you are living there I can definitely see the benefits of foreign travel - but I think you have to do a lot of it (ie live in a country for an extended period), to see any real benefit.

Also, the worth of books, documentaries, movies and online material that can educate a child about different cultures should not be underestimated.

We made the choice of moving to the UK for the sole reason of the children's education. As Guesthouse pointed out earlier in this thread, in general the top tier of well educated young adults get the cream of the jobs in western countries. This is indisputable and will likely never change. FWIW, these were the factors we considered as to where we should educate them:

1. Consistency and stability. We had been living in Paris and a few other places beforehand. Moving around every few years is great when you are a couple, but very unsettling for school-age children. So we wanted the kids to enter a primary school that they would stay at for the duration (7 years in the case of the UK).

2. Quality of life would have been better for us, as parents, in Thailand, but not so for the kids. Here in the UK, our kids go to ballet, streetdance, football, cricket, mandarin Chinese, music and swimming and these are either done on school premises (outside the normal curriculum) or within a 5-10 minute drive. They love it (they want to do tennis too, but we have to stop at something!). On top of that, the school they attend is within a 2 minute walk of our home so there is no problem with long journeys to/from school every day.

3.The exposure to the cliques, consumerism and various kinds of prejudice/disrespect that come with the top Thai and Hong Kong international schools was a major drawback. This occurs in UK schools too, but is far less of a problem than in Hong Kong and (especially) Thailand. To some extent this can be ameliorated be the home environment, but there is an element of luck involved. I know former colleagues in Hong Kong who had a great family home life and did their utmost to instil their own values in their children, but they still got into the "wrong clique" at school (GSI and Kellett) and it wreaked havoc.

4. On the other hand, in the in the UK, it is hard to find a good state school that does not have some problems with unruly/undesirable elements.

Again this can be ameliorated at home but again there is an element of luck involved. This problem even exists in some primary schools in certain areas for kids in the 8-11 range, but is obviously a lot worse in secondary school. For this reason we chose to live near to the best state primary school we could find, however we intend to send our children to a medium-size private school for their secondary education.

5. Money was also factor, but not a major one. If the kids are in a private UK school then our normal living costs would be around the same here, in HK and in Thailand, so our costs are lower while they are in a state primary school, but will be around the same in a few years when they go to private school. I can also work here in the UK, or in HK, so that's another factor, though I've been semi-retired now for a while now so this doesn't play an important role. Then there is the issue of university fees - if they decide they want to go - which is another factor in favour of a UK education. Lastly on the money issue, my wife visits her friends and family in HK and Thailand every 3 months, and takes the children twice a year, so the cost of plane tickets does add up - it comes to about 7000 pounds / 350k baht per year - but this would be more than offset (at the moment) by school fees if we lived over there.

There is little doubt in my mind that the quality of education at the top HK and Thai international schools is as good as that at a good private school in the UK, so this was a non-issue, but given the factors above, the choice of a UK education was a fairly simple one for us.

A degree in "Thai Culture" offered outside of Thailand? Would love to find out more.

The University of Leeds, UK

The School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London

Language seems to be a major portion of both, as I thought would be the case.

Indeed. I expect a full Bachelor's degree in Thai culture / Thai Studies, without Thai language, will be impossible to find - though I imagine there could be some in "South East Asian Studies", where students can take electives to focus on Thai culture / politics etc....