Desertexile

The "test", as you put it, is provided by the UKBA approved schools, colleges, etc but must conform to the listening and speaking elements of the A1 CEFR ( as you well know by now ).

Yes, I know - I helped write the document you posted . However, my question remains - you refer to it as 'the test' I am asking you WHICH test you provide. There are many approved/accredited tests. Which one do you offer? JETSET? ELSA? IELTS? PELT? C&G?

The companies offering to carry out the test here in Thailand are appointed by the UKBA approved providers in the UK.

Yes, that's clear.

They are not making up their own test.

No, they certainly are not! There are 19 accredited tests - so the same question, which one do you provide?

You would be better asking the UKBA approved providers to "define the test ".

They have, in the document you posted - I think you already know this!

The testers here act only as agents for these UK schools, etc. They do not have any input into the content of the test, nor do they mark the test.

Actually, they are not 'UK Schools' - Companies such as EDI, EDEXEL, City & Guilds are accreditation bodies providing examinations. They are not Schools in any way.

I have already provided you with a link to the list of the UKBA approved providers.

Yes, I know all of the approved providers. I am asking you, simple, which test you provide. If you could state which test you provide , as an Agent on behalf on your UK based provider, that would help the readership in deciding if that test (of the 19) is the right one for them.

Razz - did you read this thread? It will further your understanding despite its closure:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/404303-new-a1-english-test-for-spouses-and-partners/page__st__25

My apologies - I do not wish to disagree with you on either point. I therefore apologise and make a public correction. Both companies offer a chargeable 'pre-test', more commonly known as a placement test.

Please could you define 'the test'? Which test exactly are both companies offering?As I am sure you are aware, there are many tests which are accredited by UKBA as proof that the Settler has achieved an A1 and above level of English competence. Therefore, could state which test your business offers? That will of course help the readers choose a suitable provider.

Perhaps visatogorayong could do the same?

Many thanks.

telboy - I'll check your docs for free. Just as my mate who ha previously did it, checked mine. Its really a no brainer. In fact, if you want to see my application IE all the suff prepared as a word.doc you are welcome. PM and I'll email it to you. Easy.

I gave my mrs a list of must have docs, she spent a day in a uni library photocopying and indexing. I spent the day editing letters from me, her and other referees and putting together a contents/appendix. So yeh, you are right effectively 2 days in man/yingdays.

Anyway, good luck

The only one who posts on this forum, who is offering just the required test without uneccessary bolt ons is visatogorayong.

In the coming days once I have spoken to the UKBA marriage and settlement team (who put together the whole notion of testing and approving providers) I will post up information of ALL approved Schools and Agents where you can take a test which defines A1 status.

You will also find many schools offering placement tests to check if the potential leaner is of A1 standard. However, as indicated above there are many organisations (links about) who offer free placement tests which are entirely fit for purpose to potential learners.

Maybe to help members?

As the thread I started was closed without me getting a satisfactory answer...could anyone provide a link to a course of "A1" level in BKK?

Hopefully the gf wil apply for her visa before the 29th and we won't need it but just in case.

Many thanks

RAZZ

Razz - Your Mrs could study at any language school to bring her up to A1 standard. There is no such thing as an 'A1 course'. If I were you, start the British Council Siam Square, its the best place to study and work your way down to the likes of AUA and ECC language schools - though I dont think you are that skint to have to bottom feed at the likes of ECC.

http://www.britishcouncil.org/thailand.htm

www.ecc.ac.th

www.auathailand.org

Aside, you have said that your Mrs has worked on a cruise ship for three years using English. So, there is absolutely no way whatsoever that she will not reach A1 standard. Ask her go to the British Council and take there free placement test which gives potential learners an English Language competence level. The placement test used is from Oxford quick test and is regarded throughout the world as excellent (hence why the British Council AKA gov uses it)

Once she has taken the placement test, I would bet my bottom baht that she will have a standard well above A1 (breakthrough/beginner). You can then arrange for her to take one of the many approved English tests and her result will show that she has a level of English over A1 standard. Just make sure that it is from an accredited provider.

leveldescriptionA1Can understand and use familiar everyday expressions and very basic phrases aimed at the satisfaction of needs of a concrete type. Can introduce him/herself and others and can ask and answer questions about personal details such as where he/she lives, people he/she knows and things he/she has. Can interact in a simple way provided the other person talks slowly and clearly and is prepared to help.A2Can understand sentences and frequently used expressions related to areas of most immediate relevance (e.g. very basic personal and family information, shopping, local geography, employment). Can communicate in simple and routine tasks requiring a simple and direct exchange of information on familiar and routine matters. Can describe in simple terms aspects of his/her background, immediate environment and matters in areas of immediate need.B1Can understand the main points of clear standard input on familiar matters regularly encountered in work, school, leisure, etc. Can deal with most situations likely to arise whilst travelling in an area where the language is spoken. Can produce simple connected text on topics which are familiar or of personal interest. Can describe experiences and events, dreams, hopes & ambitions and briefly give reasons and explanations for opinions and plans.B2Can understand the main ideas of complex text on both concrete and abstract topics, including technical discussions in his/her field of specialisation. Can interact with a degree of fluency and spontaneity that makes regular interaction with native speakers quite possible without strain for either party. Can produce clear, detailed text on a wide range of subjects and explain a viewpoint on a topical issue giving the advantages and disadvantages of various options.C1Can understand a wide range of demanding, longer texts, and recognise implicit meaning. Can express him/herself fluently and spontaneously without much obvious searching for expressions. Can use language flexibly and effectively for social, academic and professional purposes. Can produce clear, well-structured, detailed text on complex subjects, showing controlled use of organisational patterns, connectors and cohesive devices.C2Can understand with ease virtually everything heard or read. Can summarise information from different spoken and written sources, reconstructing arguments and accounts in a coherent presentation. Can express him/herself spontaneously, very fluently and precisely, differentiating finer shades of meaning even in the most complex situations.

Maybe to help members?

Do not continue your spat here, or sanctions will be taken.

Yeh, to help members, that's it.

28,000 to help put a settlement application together? Its robbery, you could do it all yourself in a day and essentially, you have to provide the same info to the 'Agent'.

Do it yourself, . My mate checked mine in 2 hours and his only exp was that he had been through the process before.

I am sure that you are correct, but none of these will be any use whatsoever to a settlement visa applicant!

So, logically what you are saying then is that if a placement test to define one's English language competence has no use whatsoever, then neither does a sminar at 1000 baht which does exactly the same - defines one's level.

From thewhere can she take an English course at Level A1 in BKK?

So the issue is; where can one take the required accredited assessment from an approved provider?

I cannot see anything in any of your posts in this topic which answers that question. Please cut the confusing waffle and stick to the point.

The British Council. Any language school. She can study anywhere to get up to A1 level - assuming that she now cannot speak a word,

I found this on the internet - lets take it apart: EXCUSE THE CAPS

In the summer of 2010 the British Government announced that it was introducing an English test for people from non English speaking countries

UK Border Agency has since announced that the date for the test will be 29th November 2010. From this date on if you are applying to become a resident in the UK, for example applying for a fiancé or settlement visa you will require to have a certificate confirming that you have passed the test

The test will comprise of two parts of what is known as the A1 test, speaking and listening skills. Failure of either will require a re-test.

UTTERly incorrect - THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'THE A1 TEST' - THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT TESTS WHICH MAP INTO THE COMMON EUROPEAN FRAMEWORK (A FRAMEWORK WHICH LISTS MANY TESTS AND MAPS THEN INTO DIFFERING ENGLISH ABILITY LEVELS).

UK Border Agency have listed approximately 16 UK and 2 Japanese Institutions that were accredited to carry out the A1 test. Some may have agents in Thailand and some will send a tester over to carry them out (could be expensive)

AGAIN - SCAREMONGERING. THERE ARE NO APPROVED PROVIDERS IN THE UK THAT WOULD SEND AN INTERNAL VERIFIER TO THAILAND TO HOLD A SIMPLISTIC TEST AT ITS THAILAND AGENT'S PREMISES. SIMPLE NOT NECESSARY. FOR EXAMPLE, A THAI GOING TO STUDY IN THE UK WILL GO TO THE BRITISH COUNCIL AND BE TESTED THROUGH AN IELTS TEST. A SETTLER CAN DO THE SAME AND A SCORE OF 1 EQUATE TO A1 ON THE CEF AND SATISFIES THE REQUIREMENTS.

One of the accredited companies will be running tests through their agent in Bangkok and Pattaya. This has involved introducing a very clear policy to follow exactly the requirements and have trained and accredited their tester

HE MEANS ONE OF THE APPROVED COMPANIES WILL RUN ITS ACCREDITED TESTS THROUGH AN AGENT. THEY WILL NOT HAVE TRAINED AND ACCREDITED ITS TESTER.

The test itself is fairly difficult and certainly requires good skills in listening and speaking the English language.

AGAIN, MORE REFERENCE TO 'THE TEST'. THERE IS NO 'A1 TEST' THERE ARE MANY TESTS. A TEST TO DEFINE ENGLISH ABILITY IS NOT ABOUT 'DIFFICULTY. SUCH A TEST MEASURES COMPETENCE IN THE LANGUAGE. FOR EXAMPLE IELTS TEST WILL MEASURE COMPETENCE FROM A1 (V BASIC) RIGHT THROUGH TO A NEAR NATIVE SPEAKER.

Many will find this difficult

NO, SOME PEOPLE (THOUGH VERY FEW) WOULD NOT REACH A1 STANDARD, MANY WILL BE AT A MUCH HIGHER LEVEL. EXAMPLE OF AN A1 LEARNER:

http://www.webcef.eu/?q=node/192

so Pre-Test seminars are being run in both locations to enable candidates to see for themselves whether they need further coaching/schooling and also save on a possible failed test fee.

OR JUST DO A FREE ON-LINE PLACEMENT TEST AS MENTIONED EARLIER WHICH IS, IF ONE CAN READ AND WRITE IS SUFFICIENT TO INDICATE ONE'S COMPETENCE AND CAN BE MAPPED TO THE CEF

They will take the form of group sessions, they should be fun and no one will feel embarrassed. It will help candidates to get an understanding of what and how the test is conducted so they can decide on their next course of action

FUN? DOING A PLACEMENT TEST? A TEST THAT TAKES ABOUT 20 MINUTES? OR JUST GO TO THE AUA, ECC OR THE BRITISH COUNCIL AND TAKE A TEST A PLACEMENT TEST FOR FREE OR 200 BAHT TOPS AND BE TOLD YOUR LEVEL AND IF YOU NEED REMEDIAL WORK. THOUGH IF THE SETTLER IS A RELATIONSHIP WHERE ENGLISH IS USED TO COMMUNICATE WITH SPOUSE/PARTNER THEN THIS WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR SOMONE BELOW A1 STANDARD.

From New English language requirement for partners

.........you will need to pass an acceptable English language test with one of our approved test providers..........When you make your application to us, you will need to provide evidence that you have passed the test.........

As far as I'm aware, it is not possible to obtain such evidence from an approved provider anywhere in Thailand for free.

However, I will be more than pleased to be proved wrong on this point. So, if anyone knows somewhere where it can be obtained without charge, please provide details.

Otherwise, keep quiet.

There is nowhere which will provide an accredited test for free. That is not the issue 7by7. There are many places to get a free placement test. AUA being one such place, ECC also, the British Council also. All map to the common European framework. There are many online versions too.

Well said. I'm waiting for Desertexile to show his altruistic side, and come up with his free listening and speaking assessment to benefit all concerned.

And you say my reading skills leave a lot to be desired?

You are obviously one of those people who can never admit to mistakes. Your ego is way too big for me to deal with.

End of correspondence with you.

I'll admit to a mistake - but what exactly is it? What mistake have I made? To question your motives?

I note you have chosen to ignore any of the points I made, including a viable route to the required test pass ( required by UKBA ). If you think you can provide a free asessment, or free placement test, as you said, then let's have a look at it. It has to be a "test" that incorporates no reading element, of course. You would be assisting a large number of people.

Within the link you posted there are numerous viable routes - indeed, I asked you supporter to do a little research for himself regards the providers within that list who offer online 4 skills (or indeed just L&S) tests which satisfy UKBA requirements to outline an A1 + level. As I said to you (which you ignoted) there is no 'Al Test' which you keep pushing.

No where did I mention that such a test was free. Please slow down, calm down and rethink your reading methods.

Yes, I maintain there are free placements test easily available on line, indeed I posted links - again, perhaps you need to brush up on your own reading. A placement test DOES NOT have to be a L&S test to define overall level. This is essentially something you cannot comprehend.

And, lets not forget that A1 level is extremely basic, do you know what the requirements for assessment at A1 level, in any skill, even are?

In summary i have do a mountain of paperwork and pay over 200 pounds (around 6000 baht) just to work in my home country just because i am teacher returning from overseas

dam_n right! And anyone wanting to to teacher Children should present an enhanced CRB / clearance. As a Teacher, I'm sure you'd agree. Have you tried the Thai embassy?

Your comments are offensive

I'd say they are a fair assessment. If that offends you, well, such is life. I mean, its not like they have a financial impact, right?

Well said. I'm waiting for Desertexile to show his altruistic side, and come up with his free listening and speaking assessment to benefit all concerned.

And you say my reading skills leave a lot to be desired?

I consult for the UK's largest awarding body and dealt directly with the UKBA marriage and settlement teams in creating the list of approved providers. So, without further ado if 7by7 tell me how, I'll send over an attachment that highlights ALL the approved providers as well as ALL the tests which can be taken to demonstrate an A1 level - many off which can be taken on-line, on demand from UK based companies.

I wonder if you could provide, if not the link, the name of one or two companies and the relevant test(s) that can be taken online, that will satisfy UKBA's requirement for a pass in Speaking and Listening. An applicant for a settlement visa may be able to present their university doctorate as evidence of their ability in English, but it won't satisfy what the rule actually says (kindly provided in a previous thread by 7by7):-

"(ii) the applicant provides an original English language test certificate in speaking and listening from an English language test provider approved by the Secretary of State for these purposes, which clearly shows the applicant's name and the qualification obtained (which must meet or exceed level A1 of the Common European Framework of Reference)"

You're accusing VisasPlus of peddling an unnecessary service, but having already had a candidate fail the test, it seems to me perfectly reasonable to offer an assessment and make a charge for doing so. We're doing the same.

It doesn't sound reasonable to me to charge a learner 1,000 for a placement test - sorry.

The part about the Doctorate - no idea what you mean.

You are offering a test, you should make it your business, therefore, to do a little research into the product you are offering Thais who wish to settle in the UK, not to mention the chaps that frequent this board. Take a look at the test yourself, follow the links to a few of those sites. Understanding what it is you are arguing about is a good step.

And I still think 1000 for a placement test is outrageous however its packaged. The expense here should be just charging for one of the many route into acquiring an A1 + level,

Yes, most are indeed.

And thus this thread should have a calming effect, no?

OP - check out Razzel's thread.

VP - why push this so hard if you are not directly profitting?

Visaplus - I am not able to respond because if I do I get accused of getting into it with you. I consult for the UK's largest awarding body and dealt directly with the UKBA marriage and settlement teams in creating the list of approved providers. So, without further ado if 7by7 tell me how, I'll send over an attachment that highlights ALL the approved providers as well as ALL the tests which can be taken to demonstrate an A1 level - many off which can be taken on-line, on demand from UK based companies.

1000 baht to be told ones level and that one possibly needs further training? You're having a giggle, Pal. You really should say, once the attachment is posted who exactly is the approved provider sub contracting this work out to you and yours....

7by7?

I wonder what the ratio is of approvals:rejections.

Any ideas?

As far as I am aware English Test Centre give full feedback on the Pre-test. There would be little point otherwise.

The fact is, the tester either reaches A1 on the CEF or they don't - the feedback is that simple. There is no feedback to be given. A placement test, whether than be Oxford, Michigan etc etc etc (the list goes on) requires no other feedback but 'This is your level, you need to study x to reach y, of applicable'. Frankly, this is unfair and charging a grand is wrong.

By the way, your second link is purely a reading and answering test. This is, unfortunately, not appropriate for the A1 ( settlement ) test which is a listening and speaking test.

So the tester should go to any AUA brach and take the placement test (which includes listening) for free and then study as and if required. That said, any multi choice placement test (for someone that can read) gives a real idea of overall level - there is no need for a specific L&S or 4 skills test.

I have run some of the largest technical training projects in the world for non native speakers and these include bold on EFL and ESP - I know my shit. This is just wrong and you are trading on fears.

Does't the visa have an expiry date typed into it which is also the expiry date of the passport?