Desertexile

Hello Gents (and especially 7by7)

As requested - the evidence from a case worker instead of the people outlined in the last discussion at:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Marrying-Tha...nd-t349736.html

Please read from the bottom up of the email trail.

Cheers

____________________________

Dear Nick,

Yes, you will be able to marry in the UK provided that the preliminaries outlined in my previous email are carried out. However, your intended marriage in the UK will not supersede your marriage in Thailand.

It is not within the province of the Registrar General to pronounce on the legal issues of any marriage, that is a matter for a court of competent jurisdiction. However generally speaking, provided that the marriage is contracted according to the laws of the country/state where the marriage took place and is considered to be valid in that state then there is no reason to suspect that it would not be valid in the UK.

I hope this answers your query.

Kind regards,

Xxxxxx

Casework Officer

Identity and Passport Service | General Register Office | Marriages and Civil Partnerships | Room C201 | Smedley Hydro | Trafalgar Road | Southport | PR8 2HH

T: 0151 471 4814 | F: 0151 471 4523 Email: [email protected]

To find out more about the General Register Office, visit www.direct.gov.uk/gro

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________________________________________

From:

Sent: 14 May 2010 17:59

To:

Subject: Re: For Rob Parry

PS Rob - I also state that I realise Thailand raises negative connotations. My wife and I have been together since we were both 20, and she is an educated professional - no mail order involved!

-----Original Message-----

From: To: [email protected]

Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 5:56 pm

Subject: For Rob Parry

Dear Rob,

Thank you for the email:

Could you clarify some points further?

If the marriage has no legal standing, do you mean that it does not supersede my current, legal, marriage in Thailand?

If I can prove that my marriage in Thailand is legal, attested by the ministry of foreign affairs in Thailand and consider legal by UK authorities (such as the UK border agency), then how can doubt be cast upon the marriage validity? And what are the implications of this doubt?

I understand that you advise against if for the reasons you detail, however, does this mean that if I request a marriage that the registrars office will grant and conduct the marriage? Essentially, if I make the request, provide the necessary documents (including evidence of current Thai marriage) and reside in the given area for 7 days + will we be permitted to marry in the UK and be issued with a marriage certificate?

Many thanks for taking the time to answer, Rob - I appreciate it.

Best Regards

Nick

-----Original Message-----

From: GRO Marriages <[email protected]>

To:

Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 2:23 pm

Subject: RE: Legal Question

Dear Nick,

The UK marriage would have no legal standing over and above the Thai marriage.

If you are considering undertaking a further marriage in the UK, I have added some information below which outlines the preliminaries before a marriage can take place.

A summary of the legal preliminaries required for civil marriage in England or Wales is that:

Both of the parties to the marriage must have lived in a registration district in England and Wales for at least seven clear days immediately before giving their own notice of intention to marry at the district register office. If both parties live in the same registration district they should attend the register office in that district to give their notices of marriage. If the parties live in different registration districts then each will need to give their own notice in the district where they reside. After giving notice of intention to marry there is a further fifteen clear day waiting period before the marriage may take place; for example, if a couple come into the country on 1July the notice cannot be given until 9 July and the marriage may take place on or after 25 July. The marriage may take place up to one year from the date that notice was given.

It is possible to marry in any register office or any approved premise, e.g. a hotel licensed for civil marriages by the local authority, in England or Wales. However, notice of intention to marry must be given at the register office in the registration district that the seven day residence has been completed.

When a person attends before the superintendent registrar to give notice of intention to marry they will need to produce certain documents. These include evidence of name, age, marital status and nationality. A current valid full passport is the preferred document or, where appropriate, a Home Office Travel Document, a Standard Acknowledgement letter or a national identity card. If a person has been married before they will also need to produce documents to confirm they are free to marry. These documents may include a decree absolute, bearing the court's original stamp, or the death certificate of the former spouse.

Depending on individual circumstances other documents may be required. The superintendent registrar of the registration district where notice of marriage is to be given will advise further on these requirements. Please note that photocopies of documents are unlikely to be accepted.

It is advisable to contact the Register Office concerned to confirm their exact requirements on the production of documents and to arrange when to attend to give notice of intention to marry. If the marriage is at an approved premise it will also be necessary to ensure that there are staff available to conduct and register the ceremony.

Church of England or Church in Wales

If you wish to be married in the Church of England or Church in Wales generally you will be able to do so only if you or your partner live in the parish - you should first speak to the Vicar. If he is able to marry you he will arrange for the Banns to be called on three Sundays before the day of your ceremony or for a common licence to be issued. The vicar will also register the marriage and there is generally no need to involve the local superintendent registrar.

Other Places of Religious Worship

If you wish to marry by religious ceremony other than in the Church of England or Church in Wales you should first arrange to see the minister or other person in charge of marriages at the building. However, the Church or religious building in question must normally be in the registration district where you or your partner lives. It will also be necessary for both of you to give formal notice of marriage to the superintendent registrar for the district(s) where you live. A registrar may also need to be booked.

The minimum legal age for getting married in England and Wales is 16 years of age but written consent may be required for anyone under 18.

The regulations above apply to both British and foreign nationals.

PLEASE NOTE

As a result of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, Etc) Act 2004 from 1st February 2005 if you are subject to immigration control you will not be able to give a notice of marriage unless:

You have an entry clearance granted expressly for the purpose of marriage in the UK;

Entry clearance is the granting of permission to enter the UK by an Entry Clearance Officer in the British Embassy/High Commission in the person's country. It will usually be shown as a visa in the person's passport or travel document.

Or you have the written permission of the Secretary of State to marry in the UK - this will take the form of a certificate of approval which can be obtained from the Immigration and Nationality Department. The certificate of approval will have to be surrendered to the superintendent registrar when notice is given.

Or you fall within a class of persons specified by the Secretary of State. This will be someone with settled status in the UK.

For further information, please see the Home Office web site on www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk or telephoning on 0870 606 7766 or by emailing [email protected]

As a result of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, Etc) Act 2004, from 1 February 2005, if you or the person you wish to marry are subject to immigration control, you will only be able to give your notices of marriage at a specially designated register office which you must attend together. There are 76 designated register offices in England and Wales. Please telephone us on 0151 471 4803 or see the following web site www.direct.gov.uk/gro or the home office web site at www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk

If you require any further information, please email me back.

Regards,

xxxxxxx

Casework Officer

Identity and Passport Service | General Register Office | Marriages and Civil Partnerships | Room C201 | Smedley Hydro | Trafalgar Road | Southport | PR8 2HH

T: 0151 471 4814 | F: 0151 471 4523 Email: [email protected]

To find out more about the General Register Office, visit www.direct.gov.uk/gro

 Please consider the environment; do you really need to print this email?

________________________________________

From:

Sent: 14 May 2010 11:53

To: GRO Marriages

Subject: Legal Question

Dear Sir / Madame,

• I am a British national married to a Thai national

• A legal marriage was conducted in a state Registrar's office in Thailand in 2002 after I first obtaining an affidavit to marry from the British embassy in Bangkok.

• My partner was also free to marry, in Thailand, as confirmed by the Thai government to the local Thai registrars office.

• The marriage is consider legal by the British authorities

• The marriage continues and has no ceased through divorce of any other means

My question is thus:

• We wish to return to the UK and conduct a full, legal marriage in a UK registrar's office, be awarded a UK marriage certificate, have the certificate signed by both witnesses and the registrar conducting the marriage. The reason for this proposed marriage in the UK is because I want my parents, family and friends to be a part of a full marriage in the UK as none were able to make it to Thailand for my marriage ceremony in 2002. I do not seek to renew our vows I seek, as outlined above, to undergo a full legal marriage ceremony as outlined above. Thus, I ask, is this legal under UK law?

Many Thanks and I will await your response.

Best Regards

Nick

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No, you are the only one of 14 who even addressed it. Still, thanks all the same. Good on ya.

Funny thing is no mod has addressed the question of volunteering in a for profit business. Not here or the mods on the teachers forum. They've all avoided it. In itself, I reckon that speaks volumes.

Cheers Mods. Interesting stuff.

And more so, cheers forum owners - there's no flies on you!

Brilliant points folks - especially from the Mods.

It's nice to have a light-hearted banter, particularly with the stress of recent weeks.

Of course, it could all be a Cunning Plan (not seen Baldrick for a while) with 8 out of the 15 online mods/admin viewing this topic all hel_l could break loose elsewhere and nobody would notice (yes we do know about multiple tabs)

Nicely avoided.......

Brilliant points folks - especially from the Mods.

An intellectually honest and loyal MOD who demands no money or other privileges to do the job is precious.

Very much so and thats about as close as anyone has come to the question posed. Though your point is more how I would have thought the owner would respond.

Question stands if anyone is game to answer.

How do you feel about offering your labour on a voluntary basis to a 'for profit' business?

YOu can do better than that.......

Because of some excessive behaviour by the local muttawah in the foreign embassy quarters a few years back most of the more zealous ones were moved to Yanbu and Riyadh became a bit more relaxed.

Maybe that's changed over the years with the new King?

You could try the Riyadh Hash House Harriers where you'll meet people. There was also the Rugby Club but that was more a bachelors hang out. Assuming these places still exist?

Or try the Thai Embassy. On Wednesday (5 May) it's the King's Coronation Day so they may be having a private gathering at the Embassy where you can meet people.

Thanks for that.

I'll make no real bones about it. I think the forum owners have done some amazing kind of job in getting volunteers involved in a for profit business. OK, so the Princes Trust, Oxfam etc attract loads of volunteers with no much going on to help them out but I rarely see a for profit business achieve the same. From a business point of view, practical and academic, its some feat.

So, I am more interested in how Mods feel about that question.

Dont be shy.

You likely aren't rich, this isn't a charity - yet you still volunteer. What evokes that level of organisational commitment?

In a general sense, is it your psychological attachment to the forum. Can it be contrasted with other forum-related attitudes, such as Mod satisfaction?

As a Mod are you affectively committed to the forum and strongly identify with the goals (as you perceive them) of the forum and desires to remain a part of it; or is the Mod's continued commitment to the forum because he/she perceives the high costs of losing Mod membership?

I am interested from a practical and theoretical perspective. How can I get skilled people to work for free in a for profit business. From a Management perspective, its nothing short of amazing.

I am assuming that the forum makes money.

5

I'll make no real bones about it. I think the forum owners have done some amazing kind of job in getting volunteers involved in a for profit business. OK, so the Princes Trust, Oxfam etc attract loads of volunteers with no much going on to help them out but I rarely see a for profit business achieve the same. From a business point of view, practical and academic, its some feat.

So, I am more interested in how Mods feel about that question.

Dont be shy.

MODS why do you do it?

I am genuinely interested:

Why did you become a Mod?

Did you ask to be or was it offered?

How many hours do you spend on it per week?

You take a lot of &lt;deleted&gt; from posters - does this bother you?

How do you feel about offering your labour on a voluntary basis to a 'for profit' business?

Do you miss being just a poster?

Not a chance. The core business is in Riyadh! That said, if I was in Khobar, I'd live over the bridge. In fact, what the &lt;deleted&gt; am I thinking.....living in Riyadh. Oh &lt;deleted&gt;. Money is such a pain in the arse.

Thanks Folks

My Mrs and I have been in the sand for 7 years but nowhere quite as restrictive as Riyadh.

The Mrs is used to it but given the restrictions of Riyadh , getting on the right compound is key.

I just wondered if there were many Western/Thai couple there? I toyed with the idea of doing a rotation and the Mrs staying in Thailand but that's no way to live. As long as she can find some mates, then cool.

Cheers.

Hello Folks

Has anyone worked or currently working in Riyadh with your Thai Mrs?

Cheers

Instead of posting silly replies and pathetic digs, how about providing the relevent part of the 1949 Marriage Act. Couldn't 'poopoo' that, could I?

The lawyer in question is as described, but don't take my word for it; ask Scouse.

Oh come on mate, take a chill pill - the reply wasn't silly or pathetic. The only thing which was a dig was the Harry Enfield skit and ...come on, you got to admit, its bloody funny!!!

As for posting more, as I said you have poopoo'ed everything I have written - even the direct quotes of the legal marriage cert, so why would direct quotes off the marriage act be any better??? Ive gone one step further, I have paved the way for you to speak to the second in command.....doesnt get much better than that!? You'll be able to tell her ear to ear that she is wrong also

Oi Scouse, is this lawyer a specialist in EVERY aspect of ALL civil law in the UK? If so, my bro shouts over (he's an ex- barristers clerk) could he pleeeeeeeeaaase get his bitch of an exwife off his case, sue the dodgy cat that sold him a crap BMW, sort out his bankruptcy claims in the small claims court, defend his case for unfair dismissal and possible sue Thomas Cooke for sending him on a crap holiday.....being a specialist in EVERY, like hel_l, maybe he could defend 7 in court. hahah

When (and if) I eventually get married... Why stop at 2?

I could do with the wedding presents

RAZZ

My thoughts exactly! Vegas next...........

7 - that was purely a cut and paste quote mistake but now that you raise it, does it alter the meaning, implied or otherwise?

7 - I do not know ANY lawyer who would claim to be a specialist in ALL areas of civil law and I know an awful lot of lawyers on both a proessional and personal level. Lawyers are renowned for stretching the truth but let me assure you, no lawyer would be as comical to suggest he/she is an expert of 'all' areas. I am sure Scouse knows him but if Scouse has any understanding of the legal profession and I am sure he does as he is a 'professional' then I think that perhaps he would agree. I am sure Scouse has worked with many Lawyers specialising in Immingration cases. But ALL civil law................I think now.

Q and with all due respect to your mother Q

The County's Superintendent Registrar (her specialism) and her boss (in charge of all births, deaths and marriage in multi-council of which there are only five in the country (her specialism) = with a combined experience of 50, 60 odd years

I would take his opinion of the relevant law over hers.

I would bet my bottom dollar that 'he' would not for the reasons above - though I would bet my top 50 satang that you would for the many reasons you profess above

Any response to my, and also Yeesipha's, question: where in the 1949 Marriage Act does it say that a couple can marry each other twice?

My friend - you have poopooed evrything so far because any acceptance would point to you being a wee bit wrong (in this case). I will go one step further, I will give you two phone numbers where you can call and then have said they will talk to you AND explain the legal ramifications to you. Hows that? Horses mouth and all that. So you would be calling someone who oversees all those counties and is pretty much join second (with 5 others) in the country....PM me if you would like to.

Interesting quote from Ealing by Bobrussell.

So, it's now two registrars (DE ADDED and the 2nd in command so that makes 3 professionals )who say that it's legal, but not advisable; one registrar and a lawyer saying it's not legal and only your mother and her boss saying there is no problem.

Could it be that the lawyer may bow to the superior specialism, that the one registrar grounded his/her opinion in 'Tabloid style' bullshit and that all the others may are correct

As I said before, you have (repeatedly) had you say, and I have (repeatedly) had mine, as have others.

But the thing is mate - you know better and won't accept anyone not sitting down and just accepting. 3.30 onwards

7by7 in court

'7by7' date='2010-04-19 13:30:59' post='3519256'

DE, I do not need to see the certificate issued by your mother

Apologies mate - I think you have taken that the wrong way, I didn't mean you. I know you don't consider it possible, I meant the other posters who do think that its possible.

What I do believe is that you mother was mistaken in her interpretation of the law.

I think there is something quite important here. I have told you that my Ma is the registrar responsible for one county in the UK, that her boss who oversaw and witnessed the marriage is responsible for multiple counties (indeed there are just five in the whole country - she is the top lass, as it were) and now I have also told you that they have contacted 2 other registrars on behalf of posters here and ALL agree that its grounded in legislation.

Yet, you, a self professed layman,

Like most posters on this forum, and similar ones, I am an amateur. The information I post is gleaned from a combination of my own personal experience, that of others that I have read about here and elsewhere,

who admits that all your knowledge is gleaned from this forum and other user experience refuses to admit that , just maybe, you do not have the knowledge, skills and training to offer a processional opinion.

Sometime the best way to maintain a well deserves reputation is just to accept that , sometimes, you are not the oracle. Otherwise, in the face of such professional experience and opinion, your refusal could just come across as barstool rumour.

Good luck posters and, Gents good meeting you yesterday. Mines a jack jumbo at the reception.

DE

PS I thought the lawyer was a 'high court lawyer'? Now he is a specialist in 'all' aspects of civil law - now that is some legal claim

'RAZZELL'

Lucky you

I don't really know what that has to do with anything

RAZZ

A registrar has said that a couple can marry in Thailand and then marry again in the UK, though it is not advisable as it could cast doubt on the validity of the marriage.

No 'doubt' on validity, thus means no issue!

Aaaanyway, the cert is available to view should anyone wish to - I actually met 2 posters at the Birmingham Wat today and showed them the cert!!!!!!!!! They have also been in contact with the registrar who married me and she has briefed their local registrar on their concerns. And of course, all registrars agree that the marriage act of 1949 is quite clear. They wanted to contact my local registrar for fear of 'raising concern' at their local office! 7up7 should also remind the readers that the 'lawyer' he is quoting is not a family lawyer or indeed a specialist in civil law.

I think this forum is great and I have utmost respect for guys sharing expereinces but sometimes, you just gotta appreciate that its just that, advice from layman.

Good luck guys.

DE

[quote name='RAZZELL'

DE-

I don't care if you got "married" here again or not...

But when asked "current status"..."Errr, married"....didn't that raise some issues?

RAZZ

Nope, they all knew the history and of course, the Mrs wasn't in slutwear and I aint old enough to be her daddy

Just a quick update - I spoke to the Superintendent registrar, the regional and her deputy - all confirmed by marriage is indeed above board and chuckled at the context of what I told them re: the questioning. I was refered to the cert, which I hadnt looked at and it says:

(under condition 4) "previously went through a civil marriage ceremony at the Register office, XXXXXX province, Thailand on xx November 2001.

The marriage was solemmnized between us, witnessed by four people and signed off by the registrar under the 1949 marriage act.

And that is:

The End.

Excellent - thank you

Pom Chuan kon nee mar nang gap pom. Dare, pom mai dai chuan Khun ma nang gap pom, Khun maa kong Khun eng.

Thats about the best I can do in Karaoke Thai

Hi Folks

Can anyone tell me the translation for

Merit and distinction in the context of Master Degree grades? The dictionaries I have looked at, don't offer a translation in this context and I nothing of Thai higher education. Also, can someone please have a bash at translating what an MBA is?

Also, as an aside, any ideas on the Thai equivalent of PhD and Professor and the distinction between the two? I think I have it but it would be good to have some input.

The first part is more important though.

Thanks

DE

[quote name='7by7'

Why do I do it? I guess it's to put something back in return for the help my wife and I received when we were going through the visa application process, ILR and citizenship.

Good on you! Thats a fine attitude to have.

7by7

Just out of interest 7by7, whats the deal with you and all the info you offer? Do you run some kind of agency? Whats your background?

Many thanks

DE