soundman

& I forget to mention:

If you bought the car privately, you probably will not be charged VAT, therefore no input credit for your company, whereas, when you sell it, you will have to collect VAT, & pay accordingly to the tax office.

Soundman.

Hi,

I have just bought a 2nd hand car for 870k Baht cash. I am a director (24.5%) of a very small company here in Thailand, with another farang (24.5%) and 5 thais (who have 51% between them).

I was wondering is there any benefit to the company (or me to that matter) if I was to register the car under the company name and not my personal name and address? the car would be registered as a company asset... I'd imagine that could be useful should we ever apply for loans at a commercial bank?

I know that annual Road Tax and initial name/address registration costs are doubled for registering under a company name.

The company has made no revenue as yet and all income has been in the form of 'director loans' (i.e. money me and my partners have put in so far) - needless to say, no one is drawing a salary. Of course, we all hope that this situation changes in the near future.

I have asked my Thai accountant about about potential benefits, but nothing back from her yet

Any thoughts fellow TVers?

Cheers

James

Just make sure you can prove the car is actually being used for the business, or is a necessaty for the business. I tried to register a Range Rover in my wife's manufacturing business & the audit office would not allow it.

Also beware the tax office when you come to sell the vehicle. You may have bought it for 800K & 2 years down the track try to sell it for 80K. The tax office will have none of this, unless you can prove it was a POS when you sold it (eg Staff denting all the panels etc.) They will allow you what they consider "fair market value" for the vehicle & if you have allready depreciated past that figure the tax office will demand profit on sale, even if you legitimately sold the car for a lower price than their "fair market value".

Same applies for land and real estate....

Cheers,

Soundman.

Can my Thai wife and I (farang) form a company through simple 2-person legal Partnership as is done in many other countries? (e.g. to open a couple of small trading stalls at a local market).

Yes But better to put her in a sole proprietorship than a Limited partnership.

The problem with the Ltd Partnership versus a Limited company, is unlimted liability for your wife ( no liability for you as long as you don't get involved with the business)

Your name cannot be on the bank account.

No control by you.

Because of the tax involved, if these issues are not a concern, go with the sole proprietorship and a will.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

A question for Sunbelt:

When first arriving in Thailand my wife & I opened a small manufacturing business as a limited partnership in my wife's, her brother's and sister in law's names. (registered capital 5,000,00B) This business has performed OK for about 4 years, we pay all taxes, employment insurance etc.

I now want to be a partner in this business, is this possible??

Can this business also employ me??

With respects to all the qualifications to employ a foreigner the business passes, to my knowledge, on every point.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Pls post or PM.

Thank you,

Soundman.

I dispute that.

I have Thai Farmers Bank which I opened without a work permit nor a visa, and I've been earning interest with it ever since. I have a work permit now, but the interest would come in even when I didn't have the permit yet, and I never informed them when I "finally got" a work permit either. Therefore, it seems irrelevant to them (at least in my branch).

Cheers.

I agree. Kasokorn let me open an account, using my passport as the only means of ID. They pay interest, but it seems they pay on something like your lowest balance over a 6 month period & the rate seems pretty low as well.

Soundman.

I trust the answer is 'no' but I'll ask anyway..

Can my Thai wife and I (farang) form a company through simple 2-person legal Partnership as is done in many other countries? (e.g. to open a couple of small trading stalls at a local market).

Is this possible? And if so, wouldn't this get round some of the hassles of LTD registrations and 7 Thai partners and all the other stuff??

If anyone has some answers on this topic of foreigners owning percentages of "limited partnerships" or hor jor gor's, please post.

Thanks,

Soundman.

Since October 1st 2006 you can no longer get a year extension based on marriage with 400,000 in the bank . You must show a monthly income of 40,000 Baht. This can be yours , hers or a combination of both.

To get it based on retirement you need 800,000 Baht in the bank. Or a monthly income of 65,000 I think this would be the best option for you if you have the money.

Be aware that both these sums of money must be in the bank for 3 months before you apply.

From all the investigation I have done of income made in Thailand (your's, your wife's, or a combination of both to make 40K per month) you will have to provide evidence of this via monthly withholding tax receipts.

Even though I am "grandfathered" into the old system (400K is still an option) I am currently setting my wife up with an income of 45K per month & paying monthly tax on that. I am doing this to hedge against anything that may possibly come up when I go to see immigration for a my one year extension in a couple of moths time.

Soundman.

I just got a new passport.

Will I be alright just showing my old passport with my 30 day visa in it to get out of the country.

Does the old passport have the corners cut off it & a big "cancelled" stamp across the front inside page????

Soundman.

On a recent trip back to the UK I was wondering how to take out some of the money I have in LOS with me as I don't want it here anymore either. So I decided to take 500,000 THB out of my bank, converted it back to GBP (it cost me 23 baht overall in the exchange) and then I simply walked out with it in my wallet. Easy peesy pudding and pie.

Just wondering, where did you exchange your baht to pounds? I've got 500,000 baht I want to change into pounds but can't seem to find anywhere which will sell pounds.

A reply & a quetion for other forum readers.

A good place to exchange actual cash is in the market behind the Thai airways head office on Vipahwahdi Road where there are three or four exchange businesses in small offices. These businesses have large amounts of foreign currency from many different countries on hand. Their rates are more competative than the leading bank's advertised rates. (i'm not sure about the exact legal status of these businesses)

Question: Are the same limits placed on a thai national sending money out of the country as a foreigner? If anybody can answer this it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Soundman.

How is tax liability assesed on Thai Limited Companys? Our company has had income but so far has been operating in the red. Is all income that has come into the company taxed or just profit? No partner has had any disbursment of income at this point as all money that has come into the company has been spent on operating costs or put back into the company.

Company tax:

VAT 7% on most normal sales (exports excluded)

Some provisional tax on some items. (like company phone bills etc.)

With-holding tax is sometimes applicable.

Net Profit

1 - 1,000,000 - 20%

1,000,001 - 3,000,00 - 25%

3,000,000 + - 30%

Cheers, & have a good day.

Soundman.

quote]

Sure, a business PR campaign like this might work in a democratic country but Thailand is NOT a democracy right now and I have some doubts that it will ever regain it. The regime is instituting these business amendments at their own whim without any of it going to vote or public consideration. I'm pretty sure educated and informed Thai people understand that foreign investment is mostly a positive development but the powers that be will have none of it. We are dealing with a nationalistic regime that is concerned with preserving power with the old guard. They could give two sh*ts about our definition of capitalism or progress most of them are out to enrich themselves first and foremost. That's the way it is in Thailand, let the head of the pecking order fill their pockets first and then whatever bread crumbs fall along the way can be scooped up by the other poor brown hands.

Are you sure that Thailand has ever really been a democratic country? With the amount of coups, allegedly bought & rigged elections & whatever else that seems to make the country tick, please don't tell me that any of the elections I have witnessed (in the last 6 years) have ever been fair & free. I have pretty much come to the conclusion, and have to agree agree with you: almost no one in thai does anything for free, top to bottom there is always an angle: "for any form of action there must be some form of compensation".

Soundman.

I have a business here and i over staff because of the absenteeism. You have to hire at 150% of what you actually need to make sure you havee nough workers.

true, my business is staffed by 40 Thais, same business in the UK I would need 12.

my staff come late, dont turn up at all or are regulary sick. forever swapping shifts and days off. and when they do work they are not always aware of customers in the place. believe me, I treat the staff really good and I am very fair with them. they also get great salaries ranging from 8000 to 16000 a month + tips with no collage degrees. Thai's do not think that they have work the next day when they are having a night out, they just wake up and come when they are ready.

they are very dificult to control, so it just makes life easier to employ extra.

Very good point,

I run a factory where we have positions for 30 +/- staff, we have about 40 on the books, & it doesn't matter what day of the week, there will only ever be 25 - 30 in attendance. The rest are off for whatever reason, believe me I have heard all the excuses in the world for absentteism.

Fact of business life in thailand.

Soundman.

you must motivate and keep them on their toes via surprise bribes

hand out 500bht discretley once in a while for a job well done

give out free phone cards

then they will keep on their toes in hope for papa to slip them a k

it sounds so stupid but it works.

Believe me, we have tried all that & more.

It does not work, the "surprise" is well received & works for about a day or two. Then everybody who didn't get a "surprise" starts getting their noses out of joint, & the moral level in the factory slips to a position lower than when the initial "surprise" was given, cliques form, gossip abounds & people start to quit.

All because you bought a phone card of 100B for a worker who put in a few days of hard work.

This scenario has happened many times in my factory.

You might say give every staff a little something out of the blue. The only problem is that they start expecting "little somethings" with greater & greater frequency. Fools gold.

Cat-o-nine tails, ball & chain, surveilance system, very loud PA speaker & good knowledge of Thai - Essan slang.

Soundman.

Here starteth the rant of a frustrated factory owner:

My factory has positions for 30 regular staff & 4 office staff. I pay all my staff after a grace period above award wages. I hold staff functions monthly. Unlike other companies I have a staff borrowing fund to help staff with financial dificulties (all contract signed of course).

If a factory worker needs money he will show up for work.

If he does not need money it is highly likely he will not come to work or be very late.

If he has something else to do he will do that first, even if it is only something like washing the dishes.

No amount of incentive programs (100% attendance 1 month - 500B etc) will make him come every day on time. (3 years implementation, no recipient)

Double pay only makes them lazier with reference to the opening line. (have money, not work)

The staff do not care about your business at all, even if you put profit sharing schemes under their noses. They will expect their share even when you haven't made a profit.

Does it make you wonder why so many Thai companies have security on the gates? It is to protect the business from the rampant employee theft rather from the rampagging customers.... great employee respect (not...)

Fining staff for no-shows or coming late just makes them quit.

The thai labor laws are of no assistance, an employee can take almost an un-limited number of days off, more than a months sick leave & then still request severence pay when you fire them.

Forget about investing in training (or Thailand if you can help it). All that will happen is the staff member once trained, (and has enough money) will go off to all your customers and tell them how much cheaper he can make the same quality product from his part-time - soon to become full-time business.

Forget about hassling, and harrassing the ex-staff member (even if its done by a member of the local law enforcement at your bidding) - because when you do all the other staff will quit. (mass protest)

Look to thai management style and emulate it (not): happy staff in Thailand =

- low productivity

- poor QC

- contracting customer base

- no profits

Is it any wonder that thai's are poor. All profitable business's I see in this country are run by either thai-chinese families or multi-nationals.

For anyone running a SME business in Thailand, get your radar out, the microscope going, watch your back, break out the cat-o-nine tails, don't pay salary in lump sums (hand it out in dribs & drabs, - joking...) & make sure you get all ID details from all your employees including weekly phone number updates tested in the office.

For anyone who knows a thai person (probably of chinese origin), who runs a SME, they will probably indicate all the above grievences, along with many more I havent listed. (Not just a stressed farang)

Cheers and havvagoodday,

Soundman.

this is a topic i , too, have been reading about and watching every thread but there still seems to be no definite answer on. i guess the description "crapshoot " sums it up best. i intend to be in thailand by may 07 and will be bringing a fair amount of sound and musical equipment [its my occupation] but i still cant seem to get any proper guidleines regarding the tax i may or may not have to pay. i guess i will find out when i get there and hope for a good mooded customs agent!! and be equiped with 'tea money'.

When I moved to Thailand about 5 years ago, i brought about 500Kg's of personal effects & sound equipment over a month later by air freight. I decided I wanted to see how the system worked & spent the better part of a day walking around the cargo section of the old airport to various counters & departments. The customs people couldn't be bothered checking the boxes, & as long as my forms were in order were quite happy to let my stuff pass. I had all my sound gear noted with approx. values, but because there were only one or two of each unit & it was labelled personal sound gear, they weren't interested on collecting duty or tea money for that matter. All up cost me about 3000+ Baht.

The second time I imported "personal effects" to thai, I couldn't be bothered spending a whole day at the airport. i employed one of the many touts outside the cargo section, cost was about 5,500 baht all up & i was loaded & out of there in hour and a half.

Never tried sea freight.

Soundman.

I am a New Zealand citizen. My Thai friend (former girlfriend - we are not married and never will be) is having my baby in 4 months or so. Because of her personal circumstances (I won't go into them here) she does not want a child, nor does she want to admit to anyone (especially her family!) that she has had one (to a farang! the shame!)

Anyway, I am fortunate that I live in a neighbouring Asian country and have the financial means to raise a child with the support of nannies and the like (pending finding a new partner ... I know this isn't ideal, but the child comes first!) ... SO .... resident experts ... what all do we need to do to have the child become a New Zealand citizen, and have me registered as the father? Any fellow kiwis have experience with this? Maybe more sensitively, I also want this lady (who is showing me a whole new and unattractive side to her personality!) to basically relinquish her rights to this child ... in case she has some change of heart later ... Any advice on this? Issues to consider? Can she be emilinated from the birth certificate? My intention is to offer her a financial settlement to ensure she looks after herself during the pregnancy, but also to basically ensure she signs whatever she has to so I can leave this country with my child (and never return!)

If anyone could point me to a good family lawyer, please drop me an e-mail.

Please refrain from moralising if you get the urge here ... I have found myself in a very difficult situation, and am trying to make the best of it ... with that observation, all advice is welcome!

(only joking about never returning ... you have to love LOS!)

G'day Kiwi,

A close friend of mine from aussie went through a very similar situation to this with a one night stand in BKK severeal years ago.

If you want to be legal parent to the child it is imerative your name appears on the child's birth certificate as well as the mothers. If your name is not on the BC, you will have to go to a thai court, & get the mother to sign a document that you are the legitimate father of the child at a latter point in time. (you may even have to have a DNA test done as my friend did)

Once you are the legal parent you will be able to go to the NZ embassy and make all the applications for citizenship & passport for NZ.

After these steps are in order you will be able to go to thai court and have sole custodianship of the your child signed to yourself, provided the mother agrees to sign the document. If she has no genuine regard for the child she will probably want some form of compensation, and beware, the negotiations for this compensation could take a very lengthy period of time. If she has genuine feelings for the child she may not agree to sole custodianship, & everything after that will be a negotiation, with the court not really being able to do anything unless, it can be proved to the court that the mother is not a suitable person to be looking after the child.

One positive note about the court; My friend has made several appearances at the family court, & in all respects, there was no desrimination towards him for being a foreigner. The court really appeared to treat both sides fairly, the case was always treated on the facts with respect to the Thai law.

Hope this is some help.

soundman

There is no leeway for new applications but you would probably not even be expected to know about the 3 month rule so it may well not be required - it has not been up to now for renewals from reports I have seen.

Thanks for the reply.

I hope this is the case - because there is less than 3 months from todays date till I have to submit my application for extension. The previous three times I have applied for extension - all that was required was a letter from the bank stating I had 400K (200K initially) in the account when the letter was written. The immigration official never asked for a statement or didnt even look in my passbook. They just accepted the bank MGR's letter and that was it.

From my experience so far, the only grilling I received was when I made the original application for a Non-O visa, & everything since then has appeared to be just rubber stamping the application extensions. With all the changes last October, this is the first time since originally obtaining the Non-O visa that I am worried that immigration might revoke the visa & make me go through the whole process again. As someone who is planning to apply for residency in the next year or two I want to get fully legit. I really don't want to go a step back & start from the beginning. Any information on long term Non-O visas being cancelled?? Is there an appeals process?

Cheers,

S.

1. Your extension status is grandfathered and therefore 400K in the bank continues to an option for you. This amount must be in the bank for at least 3 months prior to application and until the application is approved.

2. The other option is 40K per month family income. This can be your income, your wife's income, or a combination of both. However, it cannot be the business income of companies owned by your wife's family. Using your wife's income, it will have to be her personal income (salary, bonuses, etc.) paid to her and on which she pays her income tax.

2. A third option is for one of the companies owned by your wife's family to employ you. You should be able to get a work permit as a consultant, if the type of work carried out by the companies is restricted to Thais.

--

Maestro

Many thanks for the reply..

With regards to the work permit, all the family business's are "limited partnerships" not "company limited". This is where I am confused as to whether a "limited partnership" can or cannot have foreign employees. Also I am under the impression that a "consultant" doesn't quite cut it with the labor department. I was under the impression that the WP had to be very specific with regards to the intended job & if this was a resricted industry there is no chance whats so ever as to obtaining a WP.

Thanks for the info on 400K & 40K. Being "limited partnership" the family members rarely pay themselves salaries. They just collect the yearly, monthly or daily profits straight from the till / bank acc. (& pay tax VAT monthly, business tax Yearly??)

Any idea how much lee-way the immigration official has when processing an application or are they appearing to follow the rules & count the days for example of exactly how long 400K has been in your Bank acc.

Many thanks for your reply.

S.

Hoping for some opinions... On an unusual situation....

I am 36 years old, have been living in thai since 2001, married to Thailand, with children. I have a 12 month Non-O visa approved in 2003, & been approved for 3 x 1 yearly extensions, have to apply for the next extension in April this year.

My wife's comes from a very prominent family in the amphur where we live. The family own a road construction business, petrol stations, hardware stores, rental properties, chicken farms & more that I won't go into. My wife is listed as a director & shareholder on all these business's. She also owns a few properties listed in her name, not the families.

I really want to make myself legal in all aspects of living in Thailand. All the family business's are Limited Partnerships, not companies. Most of the business's seem to appear prohibited to allow foreigners to work in them (constuction, farming etc.) Does any-body have an opinion about how I might obtain a WP to work legally in the family business??

I am also concerned about my next visa extension. Although we have plenty of money, and the means to support ourselves, I am worried that the immigration officials will try to stick me with the rule of having 400K in the bank for a minimum time period. My wife & I have several peronal & business accounts in both our names with greatly fluctuating balances depending on business activities, but we rarely keep large deposits in one location. Does anybody think this is going to a problem on my next trip to BKK immigration?? Can my wife show the business bank statements to prove 40K month income?

Many thanks to anybody having some opinions on WP & visa extension.

Regards,

S.