TaoNow

For those of you trying to justify older farang male-Thai girl relationships involving an age difference of 20+ years: The point is that this is very offensive to the general Thai society. Think "pedophilia".

On other threads, Mark45 has generously described some of his experiences with previous Thai friends and shopkeepers when he started going out in public with his teenage concubine (Mark is in his 60's)

Most Thai men don't do this. While many may have mistresses or kept women, they do not flaunt it in the public eye. Certainly not in front of friends, acquaintances or relatives.

That is the difference. You may see it as hypocrisy but it is the cultural norm.

Thai society will tolerate your inter-generational relationships, but they won't like it.

So don't expect a rose garden when you flagrantly abuse the cultural rules.

Thanks guys for the generally helpful (and flame-free) advice. I'll check out Freebird's in Rawai (?)

And, in response to others: Yes, I could buy a TV, install cable and buy the True Visions Platinum package for upteen baht a month only to watch a few sports events per year.

But as you may know from previous threads, I am trying to live frugally in Phuket. Not as an exercise in self-denial. But more out of respect for His Majesty's "sufficiency economy" philosophy.

Plus, you can meet some interesting folks while watching the games in the bars.

Party on....

With the NFL play-offs looming, do any of you have recommendations for the best bar/pub to watch live broadcasts?

These broadcasts often start at 3 a.m. local time so it would have to be a place that stays open 24/7.

In past years I've gone to Marley's and Yorkshire Pub (Saen Sabai road extension of Bangla).

But I would to try a new place if any of you have had good results there.

Just a comment on JT's observation: " If the account is static, immigration will likely ask how you get your spending money though to ferret out illegal workers."

Perhaps that is true at Immo/Pattaya.

But for my renewals with a static, fixed deposit 800K baht account, during 2008, 2009, and 2010, Immo/Bangkok never asked to see another bank account or asked how I make ends meet.

No questions were ever asked about how I supported myself during the year.

If they asked, I might say that I live with my ex-wife and she provides for meals and other basic necessities.

TN

I visit Koh Sirey about once a week in the evening and, occasionally, after dark to have a few beers at a local shop. The couple who own the shop are very nice and friendly to chat with.

I have also stopped by other places in/around the so-called Gypsy village area, the Abalone Farm, and construction sites with great views of the ocean and islands off-shore.

I have never seen a fight. I have never seen a vehicle accident. I have never been spoken to in anything but friendly terms by the local residents.

The dogs are a bit agressive in the early morning before sunrise.

I add these points as a counter-point to the above negative characterizations of Sirey Island.

Bangtao Boy said: "People are a little too desperate for something bad to say me thinks. "

I agree and I think it is because, for some people, saying something negative about the Thais makes them feel strong and tough.

There are a lot of Rambo wannabes on this Forum and that's what drags it down.

To return to the thread, after two years in Phuket, the local police have been professional and helpful when I have had cause to deal with them.

Also, after 30+ years of travel throughout Thailand, and extended living in Isaan, Bangkok and Phuket, I have personally experienced only one case of a police officer soliciting a bribe from me (100 baht for an illegal U-turn on a Sunday afternoon in Thonburi).

TN

Crutch (a newbie) said "Tourists come to this third-world country expecting bargain prices."

Crutch: "3rd world" refers to a Cold War designation of alignment with communist, capitalist or non-aligned countries.

If, however, you mean to suggest that Thailand (and Phuket in particular) is undeveloped relative to other countries and provinces in the world -- you haven't been around much.

Back to Brixton with ya.

Exactly PGM.

Have you not noticed that the people who post on this forum are a very small fraction of the resident ex-pat population of Phuket?

Most ex-pats here have an interesting life that doesn't require regular visits to TV.

Those that post frequently are either totally bored because they have no life Or...

They post out of civic-mindedness to describe first-person experience (without generalizations about Thailand) so that non-resident viewers can decide what life is like here.

You can tell who is whom.

And which type you want to be.

Since there have been several posts about Woody's Sandwich Shoppe, I'll add my 99 baht here:

I'm a regular patron (once a week) to the Woody's in Patong, but occasionally go to the branch near Chalong.

I often order a sandwich, or just coffee and a snack.

The food is excellent and good value for the price (IMHO)

The staff are exceptionally nice (to me) in both Patong and Chalong branches.

Not once have they gotten my order wrong.

The pleasant, helpful staff (and free internet) is a key reason why I keep going back.

TN

Having witnessed the past two seasons of the so-called vegetarian festival in Phuket, I intend to stay away this year for the following reasons: 1) This festival is really not about eating good vegetarian food. It is about not eating meat for 10 days as part of a purification regime. If the festival had genuine vegetarian food, for example, as that eaten in India with choice mixtures of legumes and grains, then it truly would be a gastronomic event worth staying for. As it is, most of the restaurants offering "vegetarian" food simply do stir-fry without the meat. Worse, they mold pieces of soy into the shape of meatballs and sliced meat to help the worshipers not miss meat so much. Finally, many of the really good, inexpensive Phuket town restaurants close during the festival making it even harder to get a quality meal. 2) The practice of impaling oneself with any number of sharps and sticks is grotesque, and contrary to the Thai cultural value of gentleness and the Buddhist precept of not harming life. I have seen these Mah Song several days after the festival and they have terrible scars and infected wounds in their cheeks, which are clearly painful and injurious. No tourist should come to Phuket to witness such self-inflicted violence. 3) Normally, Phuket is quiet and peaceful. Except during the 10 days of the festival when firecrackers are set off at all hours of the day and night -- with special intent to create the maximum noise (in order to waken the spirits?). 4) Finally, the festival is very clanish. it emphasizes the Chinese sub-community of Phuket at the general exclusion of foreigners and non-relatives of the practitioners. Unlike Songran (or Mardi Gras in New Orleans, or Carnivale in Brazil) the vegetarian festival does not encourage participation by the visitor. Families go together dressed in white and pay their respects to the shrines and Mah Song. There is no place for the tourist or non-practioner resident other than to gawk. So, for the one period of time during the year when this otherwise tropical paradise is uninhabitable, I will leave Phuket and head north for some peace, quiet, friendly people, and good food.

I disagree with Thules that driving on Phuket roads is dangerous. Bangkok is much worse and Chiang Mai is more congested with traffic and potential obstacles.

I have driven a motorocycle throughout Phuket during the past two years at all times of day and night. I have never had an accident or even a close call.

I find that, on the whole, Phuket drivers are courteous and do not drive recklessly -- unless there is something beyond their control (brake failure, blown-out tire).

If you are a skilled driver and use common sense, you should not have any dangerous moments in Phuket -- at least no more than in Chiang Mai or Bangkok.

Just a few clarifications for people who use a fixed deposit account for the 800K baht:

I set up the fixed deposit account 3 years ago at SCB and have never withdrawn or deposited (other than the automatic interest payments to the account made by the bank several times a year).

So there is no sign of recent activity in my passbook when I show it to Immo/Bangkok, and they don't seem to mind.

Besides, since it is a fixed account, I can't simply run to an ATM to do activity. A fixed account passbook up-date won't show any entry since the last interest payment went in (unless I make a deposit).

Also, the letter from the bank confirming the balance has to come from the bank branch where the account is held (in the case of SCB). So I can't just run down to the basement of Immo/CW to the SCB branch there to get the letter.

In the past, it never bothered Immo/Suan Plu that the bank letter was dated the previous working day -- though I haven't tried doing the bank letter the day before when processing at CW.

Mark45y (and others of a similar bent) -- it's fine to do your back-of-the-envelope calculations as part of a lively pub conversation.

But this is a public forum with global reach which was created (I think) to help others learn about Thailand and to help ex-pats adjust skillfully to life here.

Therefore, when you want to make generalizations about Thailand you need to be credible.

What are your credentials to be making estimates of the number and proportion of Thai women who sell sex?

What are your credible sources of information?

Unless you provide references to some scientific studies that are national in scope you need to accept the published figures produced by qualified researchers.

I assure you, the topic of the size of the Thai sex worker population has been studied exhaustively by epidemiologists and social scientists up to the present time.

The results of multiple scientific studies consistently estimate the number of women in the sex trade at any one time to be several hundred thousand (or about 1% of total women 15-49 yrs).

Your wildly exaggerate estimates should be left in the pub. Otherwise your remarks come off as trollish and, thus, against Forum rules.

Mark45y: I've enjoyed some of your posts on other threads, but you are seriously mistaken in your quoted estimate of "pros" and the proportion of Thai women who P4P (which presumably refers to anonymous, short-term sex for a fee).

The most exhaustive survey of female sex workers in Thailand was done in the 1990's during the HIV epidemic. The researchers were from the Institute for Population and Social Research of Mahidol University. At that time, it was very important to know the extent and different formats of commercial sex (free-lance and full-time). So the results are probably the most accurate we've got. You can probably find a copy of the study on the Institute's website.

Their estimate came out to be about 250,000 women in the sex trade. Other scientific surveys have also concurred with the 200K-300K figure. The number has probably not changed that much since then since there is no evidence for a significant increase in commercial sex in Thailand between the 1980's and the present decade.

Also, the estimate of 250,000 represents a very, very small fraction of all Thai women age 15-49 (perhaps 1% or so).

But I take your point that, over a 20-year period, the number of Thai women who ever practiced prostitution will be a higher number than those currently practicing -- maybe double the above estimate. But nowhere near the number or percentages you cite.

As for your example of the lady in the hotel bar who agreed to go with the visting farang businessman, most Thai women do not go to bars; let alone to pick up strange men. So that doesn't help your case.

Finally, I am sure there are a number of technical/private college students who may engage in P4P. But again, there is no credible evidence that it is 50% of the students. In my experience with legitimate sex behavior research in this country, the percent of female vocational college students who are sexually active (let alone P4P) is the minority.

Just a point of clarification: not all pensions pay out retiree "income" on a monthly basis.

For some plans, you may withdraw the pension funds as a 10-year annuity (i.e., one lump sum paid to you once a year for ten years).

Or, you can withdraw the entire amount in your pension account and manage the money yourself.

In this way, to satisfy the 65K baht per month retirement extension proviso, you merely need to park 800,000 baht equivalent in any liquid account anywhere outside of Thailand.

It could be a checking account, or a simple savings account, or cash under a friend's mattress.

Based on that, you could honestly swear to your embassy that you have retirement "income" in the equivalent amount of 65K baht per month for one year.

This point is important for those people without social security or an employer pension plan that only pays out on a monthly basis.

And for those who can't quite meet the 65K baht./month threshold from their monthly pension payments, and don't want to keep a savings account in Thailand.

TN

Look fellas:

I understand the craving for a good burger -- especially a cheeseburger -- having grown up on 'em.

But holding on to that craving is like retiring to Tuscany and dining at Subway.

You've got one of the world's healthiest and tastiest cuisine's nearly on your doorstep: fresh, home-cooked, inexpensive Thai meals.

Why do you even bother with burgers anymore?

Get. A. Life.

This is an interesting post T-D, and I'm sure the ending surprised many TV members who thought your acquaintance would have to leave the country.

Just as an aside, I am not sure why you criticize the US Embassy's limited requirements for proof of retirement income.

In fact, theoretically, all one would need to satisfy Immo's requirement is a checking account in an off-shore bank account with a balance of at least 800K baht equivalent when visiting one's embassy.

Based on that checking account, you can state that you have the ability to pay yourself 65K baht per month for the coming year -- whether you actually intend to or not.

Immo regulations don't require you to transfer funds into Thailand during your retirement extension year (or to withdraw money from a local account if that's your method of meeting the 800K requirement).

So, there's realy no reason for a proof of pension requirement by the foreign embassy when the minium requirement is so simple to achieve.

I agree with Tropo's point: it is the perceived age difference between a farang guy and his Thai lady that largely determines if others will think she has been bought or not.

I would also like to amend the post by Sarahsbloke about a young Thai woman's priority in choosing a mate: Her first choice will be someone in her own socio-economic group. She wants someone who speaks the same language/dialect, who likes the same leisure activities, someone who has a number of friends in common with her, and seems to be faithful and can hold a job. He need not be richer.

If that relationship doesn't work out, then she will probably try again for someone in her socio-eocnomic group, but perhaps have to settle for someone a bit older/divorced since she is no longer a virgin.

Failing that 2nd try, then I would agree with Sarahsbloke's hierarchy of preferred options.

Note that hooking up with an older (wealthier) farang guy is just about her last option.

Allane: which office did you do you extension at?

Thanks, Dah Fahrang, for reporting your experience.

I'd just like to add a postscript on the 90-day reporting issue, and suggest why it might not necessarily be linked to the location of the annual extension request.

During my last retirement extension request in April, I asked a senior official at Immo/CW what the purpose of the 90-day report is.

She said it is "to help the police locate you if you have a problem."

I didn't probe as to the nature of what kind of 'problem' she meant.

But the way she phrased it, she implied that they need the latest residence information if the ex-pat is "wanted" in a legal sense.

If that is the case, then the ex-pat would be helping the police by doing the 90-day report at the Immo office nearest to their de facto residence on the date due.

Ok Mario, I'll take that risk -- in order to save the 2,000 baht return-trip travel between Phuket and Bangkok.

As stated, I maintain two residences in Thailand: one in Bangkok (as indicated on my car driver's license), and one in Phuket (as indicated on my motorcycle driver's license).

I see nothing in Immigration law that says I must have a single residence.

And Phuket Immo has never even looked inside my passport when processing the 90-day report.

I'll report back if they do however.

Until then,

TN

To OP:

The CW Immo officer didn't need to see your bank book because it seems you weren't using the combo method (retirement income + Thai bank account).

But I am a bit concerned that she asked to see your 90-day report. When I went in April, no one asked to see my 90-day report. And they never have in previous years.

I realize they are trying to distribute the client caseload by encouraging ex-pats to go to their nearest Immo office.

But I choose to live in two cities (Phuket and Bangkok). I do most of my 90-day reports in Phuket and my annual renewal in Bangkok.

I hope to keep it that way and see no official reason why I can't.

The problem is the red flag system. Of course the beach guards don't want to be blamed for the drowning of a tourist, so they plant the red flags in April and leave them there throughout the monsoon season -- at least on Kata Noi, for example.

I go to Kata Noi to swim every week, throughout the year. The water conditions change from day to day.

This year, on most days, the sea at Kata Noi has been relatively calm (i.e., no rips). On those days, the red flags should be replaced with yellow or green. But no...

So, if we are to take the flags seriously, then entering the water above one's knees is banned during April through October.

Which doesn't make sense.

By all means, warn the tourists. Perhaps, at check-in, each hotel guest could receive a piece of paper in multiple languages which says "swim at your own risk".

But let's not 'red-flag' swimming just because a few a reckless.

Since Lopburi3 posted the reference to the minimum income requirements for ex-pats requesting extensions based on local employment, I'd like to raise the following (albeit off-topic) question:

Does anyone find it curious that the minimum "income" requirement for a retirement extension (65K baht/mo) is more than that for someone who is employed with a salary?