Awk

Not sure what you mean by off the grid. The quote we have gotten from the electric company is around 60,000B, and that is for doing the job in "off duty" hours. The distance is certainly less than 1km, 3-400 metres at most. I would be surprised if, in this case I guess it would be our agent, is trying to rip off us. Does the price sound equally crazy to others?

YES!

And what's all this agent-business anyway. The fewer agents, lawyers and other townsfolk involved between you (well, your wife) and the seller, the better it is!

While I agree, unfortunately we have not been able to find anything good by ourself. If money was no subject, of course there are plenty of nice places, but in the price range we are looking at, 4-5M for land with a decent garden and a decent house included, we haven't found much. Not that I doubt others who know better how to look will be more able to find this, but things are how they are and after four months of looking, this land, and another land/house combination was the only one both Mrs. Awk and I liked.

Anyway, this particular story has now ended in an unfortunate way. Having said A, I should also say B. So to update the few members that may be curious as to how the story will end, the day after we handed over our deposit, the story ended.

I have left some lines above blank for the expected "idiot, why did you pay a deposit"-tirades, which I will not blame anyone for thinking.

Fortunately or unfortunately, what one might expect to have happened, given I have already said things ended in an unfortunate way after we paid the deposit, the perhaps most expected turn of events is not what took place.

On Tuesday Mrs. Awk was hinting that maybe we should pay substantial deposit on the land, perhaps around 500,000. I thought that was a silly idea, and reminded her that the one living neighbour the land has (the other three sides of the land are owned by farmers, using the land for farming) told us that he was offered the same land we are looking at 7 years ago. At that time, for 750,000B per rai, rather than the 1M per rai we are looking at. Mrs. Awk thought they were probably not trying to sell the land actively in all these years, but, uh, yeah, whatever, was my feeling about that.

On Wednesday Mrs. Awk informed me that the land owners niece, who seems to get a long more than just a little with Mrs. Awk, in earnest or not I do not know, had called her. This niece has been assisting her uncle in selling the land, including acquiring the necessary official permissions to access his land. This niece also has her own land to sell, neighbouring the land we are looking at, but has previously indicated she does not want to sell now, as she thinks she will get much more money if she waits. So things have developed such that while we had only meet her uncle, the actual owner, once, we have met the niece a handful of times, and Mrs Awk seems to also have spent some time talking with her on the phone.

Perhaps they have also met without me sometimes. Mrs. Awk likes to talk, a service I do not provide to an adequate degree, and seems to get fairly well along with other people and is happy to talk with anyone she thinks is a nice person.

So on Wednesday afternoon the niece as said called Mrs. Awk to inform her another couple (probably the same Thai-Thai couple I observed in the distance one afternoon when we were there looking at the land) was planing to make a deposit on the land. She explained to Mrs. Awk how much she liked us, and how she did not like the other couple much, and neither did her uncle and some other neighbour who had also met them. Yes, that is not only a little bit hard to believe for me, but Mrs. Awk thought it was true, and I agreed with her I am very handsome and many women like me. And the niece is after all a woman. Also, the littlest Awk is quite a charmer and opens many doors. At that point I thought the story was not just a little doubtful, but still, perhaps not entirely impossible. The niece had said she would really like us to buy that land, and then we would be neighbours with her land (which she plans to sell at some later point, so whatever that means) but if the other couple submitted their deposit, then her uncle would sell to them, and then that would be that. At this point, the sums being mentioned were, again, around 500,000, so now I understood where Mrs. Awk had got that idea from.

To better understand the story, it should also be mentioned that as Mrs. Awk has been told things, the land owners daughter has mortgaged some other land, which Mrs. Awk eventually was told is due for payment this month. As a bonus, it has apparently been mortgaged not to a bank, but some other "financial institution". I do not know if that is an institution of dubious character with it's representatives driving around in twos on one CBR 150, or not. Details have not been very forthcoming, except it has given Mrs. Awk the impression the reason they want to sell the land at this price is due to some financial problems. Of course, that price is still 30% above what they apparently asked for the land 7 years ago, and some indicate it might be more than a little overpriced still.

Anyway, I told Mrs. Awk I had no interest in paying a deposit on the land, least of all a hefty deposit like that. We still had things to check out, including, but not limited, finalising the rights to access the land, which required permission from all related land owners, of which there were three or four. I did not want to rush this, as it's a lot of money for us; if somebody else laid down a deposit on the land, that would be sad, but not as sad as loosing a lot of money. After that I suggested that we do not waste any more time on this and checking things, but instead wait a few days to see what happens. If the story was true, then more than likely somebody else would buy that land. Admittedly, I felt more sad about this than I indicated to Mrs. Awk, but it just did not seem like an intelligent idea at that time to put down a hefty deposit.

The next day, Thursday morning, as Mrs. Awk was dropping of little Awk to school, the niece again called Mrs. Awk and suggested Mrs. Awk accompany her to the land office, as she was going there to check out some more things related to the access to land rights. Mrs. Awk was nearby, and so for some reason, said sure. Mrs. Awk also likes the niece, I guess. At the land office Mrs. Awk and the niece in the end discovered that the dirt track used to access the land we were looking at was now a public road, or at least, on public land. It had by two original land owners, back before that they split the land up into several smaller parcels to give their relatives, some 20 years ago or more, been donated to the government (or the equivalent. It was now a public road according to the land office).

What more Mrs. Awk and the niece talked about I am not sure, but apparently it was again mentioned how much happier everybody would be if we bought that land and not that other couple. Could we pay at least 100,000B as a deposit, so they could clear some of the problems the owners daughter had with the mortgage? Mrs. Awk indicated that was too much for us, but perhaps we could pay 50,000, if that was enough for them to stall the problems related to the mortgage for a month or so, while we finalised things? Apparently, this 50,000 was enough.

I was still more than a little sceptical, but Mrs. Awk had a fair amount of faith in this niece and what she was telling. And after all, the access rights had turned out to be a non-issue now. While I was not happy to lose 50,000 on some scam, we had as said been looking for land or house for four months now before ever getting this close to something we both liked. So I thought it might be a gamble worth doing. That same afternoon we paid the 50,000B deposit in the present of the owner and his wife, his daughter and son in law, his niece, our agent, and two buffalos (four-legged) that forced me to move our car out of the way before signing the deposit contract. It gave us two months to check out everything and pay the remaining 97.5% of the sum.

Mrs. Awk waied the owner, I shook his hand, his daughter apparently immediately pocketed the money, and all seemed to be satisfied.

The afternoon next day, Friday, things were not so merry any longer. The other couple, upon being told somebody else had now made a deposit on the land, apparently became furious and drove up to owner, yelling and screaming. Who says Thais never raise their voice? There was some talk back and forth between the interested parties on the phone with Mrs. Awk, but it ended with the owner saying he will accept (accepted already?) a 500,000B deposit from the other couple, saying he would refund us our 50,000B deposit (forced upon on our agent later that same evening), and his daughter informing us they no longer have any intention to honour the agreement. His niece apparently also gave her uncle, the owner, more than a hide full and is full of apologies towards Mrs. Awk, but that did not change anything.

So, that was the sad end to this story, and we will have to start looking again after having taken a break for some weeks upon being shown this land. :-( Quite tiring and depressing it is, as I suspect it will take a long time before we see something similar.

Anyone know of a rai or two of land for sale, within 20 km or so from the city, with a view of a mountain you can see well from the ground without squinting your eyes, or perhaps near a river? Perhaps even not too many kilometres from the highway? Within 1M per rai and with no access right problems? PM welcome.

I find it rather annoing that Bangkok Bank insists we will not get the appraisal paper, but instead say some nonsense about it being a company secret. That means we will have to pay for the same appraisal at other banks no doubt, if we want to see if we can get a better deal there. The BB guy also told Mrs. Awk all banks provide the same terms, and the only difference regards when/how much we pay at the start of the loan period. Also sounds like nonsense to me.

BK Bank is incredibly hard to get home loans from.

SCB would be a much better bet for you, as the bank says, they all have the same terms, so why start with one known to be difficult.

Went all the way through with BKB just over a year ago, started offering 95%, ended offering 50%, no explanation given.

Jumped to SCB and they gave me 90%, no problems.

PS

Note they all want a life insurance taken out in the name of the loan applicant for the full value of the loan.

All premiums paid up front, so about 5-6% of the loan extra. They won't tell you about this until the last minute, unless you ask. (on a 2M loan, expect to pay 120k for a life insurance up front)

Thanks for that. Now that you mention it, I remember reading about that life insurance annoyance before, perhaps mentioned by you, though I had completely forgotten it. I must be sure to mention to Mrs. Awk that should she suffer a fatal accident, her children and I will get the land for free, while the money otherwise used to pay of the bank can hopefully be spent on go-go girls (in Bangkok of course. As we all know, there are few if any interesting go-go girls here in CM) and other more amusing things.

Interestingly enough the same thing came up when we were buying a new car a year ago. The woman from the bank the car brand had contracted with insisted we needed to pay around 5,000B for life insurance. I, to Mrs Awk's initial annoyance, told her thanks, but no thanks, no way, what a crazy idea. I could also not help chuckle a little when she first mentioned this silly idea. The bank woman in the end indicated it might make it difficult for us to get a loan then.

In this particular case, the consequence was only that we saved 5,000B, as the loan was granted anyway without anything else said. (A nice four year loan at zero interest and no extra fees as far as I have able do decipher.) I gather this is very much not the case in case of dealing with a loan for land or house then? Quite a hefty sum too.

By premiums paid up up front, I assume you mean if you are asking for a 10 year loan, you will have to pay the life insurance premiums for 10 years up front? Sounds very nasty, but good to have an early warning about that, Otherwise I would think they are scamming me and become pissed of enough to just say goodbye. Think I will peruse the financial forum here for any tips too. Thanks.

As for the reason we first went to BB, that was mostly a coincidence I guess. Mrs Awk first went to Kasikorn, where she does her own banking, but they weren't interested in lending her money just for land. If she could also show a plan for the house, things would be different they said, so Mrs. Awk suggested we get one made as cheap as possible, just for show. Seemed like a waste of money to me though, as we would then have to make another, real, plan, and I want to use the needed time for that. Since she after Kasikorn went to BB, which also said it would be better with a plan, but we could still borrow money just for the land, that's what we ended up with so far.

At that time, I was also not aware we have to pay anything to get an answer to our application, so I just suggested Mrs. Awk go to all the banks and we could later compare terms. Perhaps the terms do not differ much then, as the BB guy said, but it sounds from you that the amount we will be allowed to barrow may differ quite a bit. Ideally, I'd like to borrow 100%, or more, as we will need to spend a similar sum for the building the house itself.

BB says after I hand in that last paper they will use about a week for the appraisal, and then another two weeks for an answer. Quite a long time, so we will trot down to a SCB branch also as you suggest, where we no doubt also will have to pay 2,500B for the same appraisal we on monday will will pay BB 2,500 for.

Thanks.

Yes i agree kids better of in houses then in condos..especially cause then they can play with other children but you intend to buy a remote plot in middle of no where..So not much playmates if any for your kids..

How about renting/buying a house in a gated community? hassle free 24/7 security gym shops restaurants and pools, its all there ! it makes more sense to me then what you are trying to do here..Your children and you wife will appreciate the safer village life much more....Land and houses makes nices villages 2-3 million BHt..

I'm sure that once the CM resident nobility discovers that the Awks have settled down there, there will be no shortage of prominent neighbours building.

Safety is a concern yes. We looked at another place 3-4 months ago. This one:

http://www.bahtsold.com/view/secuded-hideaway-but-still-close-to-town-175667?doqs=1

Back then it was offered for around 3M. Sold now, and was not as beautiful as in the pictures when we went to look, as

the pictures were apparently taken a few years earlier by a semi-professional photographer friend of the man selling, when the owner maintained it better.

Nice place, but a bit too secluded, so Mrs. Awk was worried, and I also, for her if nothing else as I am frequently abroad for work.

The place we are looking at now is much less secluded, and has at least one friendly neighbour immediately nearby. Will also make it prudent for us to have a respectable dog, which I have always wanted to have. More neighbours are also nearby, a stone throw and a river/bridge crossing away.

There is just no way to find anything similar to what we are looking at now in a gated community/moo ban. We've been renting in one for 3-4 years, and as somebody else said, we can shake hands with the neighbours out the window, without getting out of bed. Most Thai's seem to be happy living like that, but I am not, and fortunately, neither is Mrs. Awk.

We can perhaps buy 5-6 moo ban plots instead of one plot, to get some space, but not possibly economically. Also we will need to pay the moo ban fee, usually per talang wah of land. For some places (e.g., Serene lake, half way to hang dong), that can become a substantial amount, almost like renting a place somewhere. Even then, the land would be only a fraction of the size we are looking at now. Not that we have any current plans for all that land, but it would be nice to be able to grow some of ones own vegetables. Currently, this and the surrounding land is used for growing beans. I like beans, but not that much. Might have to start enjoying beans more though, as financially things will be rather dry during the next years, even if things go more or less as hoped. Perhaps Salsa Kitchen will offer to buy some beans from me, seeing as I am a semi-regular there again now. Or at least give me a discount if I bring my own beans to the table.

I guess your only financing the land, not a deal that involves building a house?

Yes, that is correct. It seems not all banks are interested in that. E.g., Kasikorn wasn't interested in talking with Mrs. Awk once they understood she was only applying for a loan for the land.

^ I can't tell if you think that's way too high or way too low.

Anyway, lots of variables. But land without public road access, far from electricity and quite likely half an hour's drive from town shouldn't really be more. Same distance but with road access and electricity nearby then you're up to double that amount.

Winnie, your statement troubles me somewhat. But we have during the last 4 months looked at a fair amount of land and house, and unless all of that has been incredibly overpriced (some if it, though perhaps none of the things showed by our agent, I would say had an owner more than a little optimistic regarding his price), this land, in it's current idylic surroundings (yes, who knows how it will change in 5-10 years) instantly struck me as a great deal. Our agent, though I realise we should not trust him to much, also thinks so, and he has been honest about other things as far as I can tell.

One of the steps remaining for a bank is for us to pay the bank 2,500 for them to do an appraisal of the land. I guess they will wait till next week, when I will drop of a the remaining documents the bank wants; a paper from my off-shore employer stating I am duly employed at the company. The appraisal paper, which we to my great surprise will not be allowed to get or keep, even though we are paying for it, I assume will give an indication on whether your guess is right or wrong. If it is wrong, I will of course not hold it against you, as I have tried to not provide too many details here, at least before the deal is finialised, or we have walked away. Thus I understand it is more than a little difficult to make a decent guesstimate for you. Appreciated none the less, as a warning flag to be aware of for us.

I find it rather annoing that Bangkok Bank insists we will not get the appraisal paper, but instead say some nonsense about it being a company secret. That means we will have to pay for the same appraisal at other banks no doubt, if we want to see if we can get a better deal there. The BB guy also told Mrs. Awk all banks provide the same terms, and the only difference regards when/how much we pay at the start of the loan period. Also sounds like nonsense to me.

Find the main guy who is in charge of this area, I can not remember what they call him. Head man something like this. your Thai wife should know what I mean . He is the guy in that area that everything goes through. He will make sure it is all legal in the neighborhood. Sounds like you already have things going correct.

"puu yai ban" I guess. Thank you, we've talked with him and he says everything is ok, for whatever that means.

Just got done talking to my Thai girl friend and she say basically, No road no buy. She thinks that at anytime one of the land owners could block your access and you would have to go to court . She owns land and is building a rental property so I would say make sure you have all your paper work in order because if someone sells and the road is on there land you may find yourself in a real pickle. Let us know how it works out.

Thanks for that. Further investigation has revelaed that all the road/dirt track to the land we are looking at has been donated to public use ("saa-taa-ra-na" is the word Mrs. Awk uses), and the land office also confirms this to Mrs. Awk. Seems some of the original owners, who later split up the land for giving to their relatives, thought about this problem, some 20 years ago. At least it appears so.

Some people in the local Chiang Mai forum have previosuly recommended a laywer, so I hope to contact her and get her to verify everything again before the final step of paying.

HI i do not want to mingle with the palace that you will built and give to your wife but your whole plan its sounds rather complicated and after its all done i am sure you be a frustrated person..Also what ever amount u have in mind for this project just triple it.Then also triple the construction period..

Did u know that isolated farang occupied homes usually get robbed ran sacked couple times a year ? You will need many dogs for protection cause usually they get poisoned.

How about tell your wife that you changed your mind instead of this plot in no mans land you will buy a completed freehold condo with views over the ping river in your own name....Lets see how excited she be with that new plan

Then You can start enjoying your life in paradise country immediately

Yes, that would certainly be easier by far. Mrs. Awk has also suggested that a couple of times, since I apparently "worry too much". Also she thinks it would be nice to stay in an aparment inside the city, rather than out in the boonies. But with a couple of small children, and my wish for dog and a cat, and reasonable garden to play in, an apartment is unfortunatly not something that would be satisfying. When I will in 20 years retire, it will be nice to have a garden to take care of, with enough space to build a small house for the mia noi also.

We are looking at a plot of land which does not have direct access from public road. The access is via an unpaved dirt track that has apparently been in use for many years. In total there is perhaps around 10 owners using various lengths of this dirt track/road.

Yes, this is obviously not ideal, but we've been looking for land and/or house for a while, and within our price bracket, this is by a very far stretch the best we've found. That is the reason I did not immediately drop any further consideration of the land when I found out that the road leading of it is private. As it is, it's very unlikely that we will be able to find anything similar in our somewhat limited price bracket, and thus I would appreciate any tips on how to go about this in the safest way.

We will need to use about 300 meters of the road, and pass through land owned by four other people, to access the land we are looking at. The road continues further inwards after these 300m, for use by owners further in, but that is of no concern to us I gather.

The first 150-200m of the road, i.e. the first 150-200m of the road we use, has been donated by the owner as some sort of public use. Not exactly sure how/what, but was told this evening that the owner of the land we are looking at has a copy of the paper where that donation is specified. Will investigate this further of course, but for now assume this donation is registered where it needs to be registered, and that the first half of the 300m of road/dirt track we need to use for access, will not pose any problem. That is one of the four owners whos land we will need to pass over.

The other three owners have previously given a verbal permission for our right of access, and have said they will accompany us, with the owner of the land we are looking at, to have this properly registered at the chanote(s) at the land office. As we are told it, the various land plots have been owned by a few families through many generations, all are friends, and thus right of access has never been an issue brought up, nor do they have any objects to registering that right of access formally. They all consider it to be a public road, but I would of course like to have our access formalised.

After our real estate agent (which appears to be a decent fellow, as far as I can tell after meeting with him occasionally during the last 3-4 months) has verified everything, I will also attempt to find a decent lawyer to verify it again before we eventually all trot down to the land office. Before we get there I would appreciate some tips however, which will hopefully also help me judge whether the lawyer I eventually deal with knows his stuff or not.

My question is what kind of access does the right of access grant? Obviously there must be some limit, as I don't assume I can demand to drive an 18-wheeler through there, if that should be my normal mode of transportation for popping down to the local 7-11. Should a right of access registration specify the width of access? We have a normal car and we would like to drive that to the land of course. If at some point a disgruntled neighbour, perhaps most likely a future owner, should want to interpret "right of access" as being "right to access by foot", is that something he can do? And if so, how do we avoid that to make sure we can drive a regular car to our land?

Best would of course be if we could buy some more land, enough to make a road to our plot, but that may not be possible here, though we are still investigating the possibilities here.

Many thanks for any feedback.

<snip>

Mrs. Awk and everybody else tell me not to worry about that first part of the road, shared by a dozzen or so other people who also need to use it to access their land, but but. :-/

Fine for the poor locals, but the minute a 'rich' farang turns up and there is the smell of money then 'customs' soon change. I personally know at least 3 farangs who had this access rights problem and ended up paying near enough the same again for access rights.

Yes, that is a bit of a show stopper unless it can be resolved in a good way before buying. It now appears that part of the road may indeed be "almost government road". The owner (or rather, his niece, who is fronting for the older owner which we only met once) has procured a copy of some paper where the owner of that part of the road says he donates it to, what I from Mrs. Awk understand, is more or less the municipality. Hopefully our agent (and in the end, a decent lawyer) can verify this tomorrow.

This donation was apparently done some years ago, where somebody else from outside voiced similar concerns.

If two other people were viewing the land last time you looked, sounds like the agent is a crook. and hired them to make you a bit keener.

How else could they be there?

Walk away.

Another poster just bought over a rai near Hang dong for 1.5M

Thanks for the warning, but I do not think so. Unless the agent is tracking us with a gps sensor or similar, he should not have had any idea we were there at that time. We visited a couple of days before with the agent, and then went to have another look by ourselves.

Been shown around by this agent for some months now, and I think he might be a decent fellow.

1 million for water and 1 million for electricity for the area you are talking about is all wrong. i ran elecity in doi saket off the grid 10 kilometers cost 25000 baht. i have run elecitry in pai buying second hand electrical cememt polls and rented an off the clock electrical worker with truck for 35000 including second hand cement polls 5 of them . large ones if you pay 1 million you are getting rip off....do not do it there is some much stuff avaiable in the area in chiang mai you are talking about just be patience and look.

Not sure what you mean by off the grid. The quote we have gotten from the electric company is around 60,000B, and that is for doing the job in "off duty" hours. The distance is certainly less than 1km, 3-400 metres at most. I would be surprised if, in this case I guess it would be our agent, is trying to rip off us. Does the price sound equally crazy to others?

1M baht for electricity plus 1M Baht for water, does this mean 2 Million or 200,000?

You can probably drill a deep well, put in a submersible pump and filters if needed and get a lot of good water for 100,000 to 200,000 depending on depth of the well.

For the access, you can get a legal document prepared that says if you purchase you will get free unlimited access (right to use the road) signed by the road owners before you make a deal. Then the deal should be a legal document that says the purchase will be done at the land office at the same time that your road access rights are registered at the land office. Same time.

Two million unfortunately. Thanks for that, that price is more along of what I would expect for water. Still trying to sort out the right of use. Understood today that it is only the last part of the road, as far our usage is concerned, where a verbal yes has been given. The part of the road prior to that is apparently shared by enough people that "a problem is impossible", according to the puu yai and everybody else, our agent included. I am not so sure that it is so impossible though, so trying to sort out the right of use for the whole road/dirt-track. Not sure why it should be a problem, if that road is "almost a government road" already, and there can not be more than 2-3 additional land owners tops for that part of the road, in addition to the 2-3 that have already given their verbal yes.

Mrs. Awk and everybody else tell me not to worry about that first part of the road, shared by a dozzen or so other people who also need to use it to access their land, but but. :-/

All good points.

One thing though '2M would change the desirability of the land'.. Does that mean that the selling price is sort of up there?

Because from everything you wrote and a little between the lines, it sounds to me like the land shouldn't be more than 250K per rai as a maximum. (And quite possibly less, if you're buying more than a rai or two).

I ask because you said 'change the desirability' instead of "completely rule it out, obviously".

Yes, very much so. It is 1M per rai. One neighbour paid 750,000 per rai 6-7 years ago. Sounds steep given my description of lack of this and that, but the location makes it look very attractive. Other land at a similar distance from CM that we have looked at is both a lot more expensive and ugly. The agent, who I have grown to like somewhat, thinks it is a very good price, though he has showed us a lot of other more expensive places, both with and without a house on the land.

It looks like electricty can be provided at a much lower price to us, though I am not yet sure why the neighbour had to pay so much.

Perhaps remarket your guest house slightly.

- Experience the genuine Thai country life, smack in the middle of the city with all its accomodities.

- Be awoken at 5am by roosters.

- See real (not staged!) cock fights right outside your bedroom window*.

- Participate in gambling and betting on cock fights with real Thai people, including real Thai policemen*.

*We cannot guarantee that cock fights will be held on every night.

The land is a bit out in the wilderness, and as-is I can understand that not everybody may want to stay there. One of the neighbours paid a very hefty sum in order to get electricity and water (a well was the only option at that time, but he thinks that particular aspect may have improved recently). Also not yet sure who owns the dirt-road used to access this plot, and the 2-3 surrounding plots. Mrs. Awk says "nobody" owns it, but I can't imagine that is correct. Hopefully we will get some more answers next week as she starts visiting the various governmental offices, and the dirt road will turn out to be government owned.

• Don't be overly concerned in itself that other people didn't buy it. You have very different requirements to local buyers, who will judge it for example on the availability of water for agriculture, and not -for example- how pretty it is and that it has nice views.
• Electricity availability is important, but this is just a matter of establishing the distance to the nearest connection. Based on that you get a fee that you pay for getting connected. How much your neighbours paid is not relevant, it's relevant how far it is from your land to the neighbours.
• Getting water is a puzzling statement: land in the boonies (or even villages in the boonies) will not have a municipal water supply. In almost all cases this means getting a well, pump, storage tank (on a tower preferably), etc. Ground water access is where the geological survey could come in, though if your land is situated similarly to your neighbours then it will likely be the same in how deep you go to get water.
• Not knowing who owns the road to access the plot however is a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR red flag. Please stop doing anything else until you figure this out. First of all figure out if it is a public road or not. Even if it's not then the owner of that land can still guarantee your access (in an official document). Personally though I would want my land to be accessible on a public road, and then ideally with lots of meters facing the road. Public roads also tend to get paved eventually, but if someone else owns that road then they're not required to do anything with it and you don't want to do a 4x4 Camel Trophy trial every time you go to Big C.

With the land not being the regular moo ban plot surrounded by countless other houses, where one can at least assume that everything important is in order, and it already having been for sale for a while with no buyer, I think it will also be important to, once Mrs. Awk to the best of her abilities, has determined everything seems to be in order, including that connecting to electricity and city water is not cost prohibitive, have a decent lawyer review everything again.

I have not previously had a good reason to contact a lawyer, but many here seem to recommend a particular lawyer at 29 Tanin, so will try her first, unless others have some other recommendations.

I would only use a lawyer if you have a legal matter to settle. Looking at your water or electricity supply really isn't a lawyer's job. Possibly obtaining guaranteed road access to your land from a person owning the road/land in front of it would be, though this is also a common transaction.

Either way a lawyer is no substitute for first-hand knowledge when it comes to these matters.

Go figure out if your land has public road access. It matters a lot more than arranging electricity, digging a well or doing geological or legal surveys. I'm guessing actually that it doesn't, or else the chanote document would mention it. And this could actually be the reason others didn't buy it; also for agriculture you want to be able to get your produce out.

The dirt road that provides access to the land is unfortunately owned by two other owners. Our real estate agent, who I have grown to slightly trust, or at least, not actively distrust any longer, as I would most of his ilk, has had a talk with these owners today. They have said they won't have any problem going with us to the land office, should the day come when we will really buy the land, and officially give us the necessary right of way permission. Them both being relatives of the owner of the land we are looking at, and thus also having his best interests in mind I would hope, this is perhaps true and no problems will unexpectedly materialise on the final day.

It is however an unpleasant and non-trivial complication in my worry wart mind, of course. Nonetheless it seemed to become quickly resolved, at least apparently so, when we said there was no point for us in checking other things before an answer to this problem could be found. As we are told the story, these people have owned this land, divided into several plots, for many, many, generations, and are part of the same family. If so, I can understand that this has never been thought of as a problem before and they think of the dirt-track as a common road for them all.

An immensely better solution, first suggested by our agent, would be if we could purchase the last end of land from one of the two other owners whos plots provide the dirt road used to access the land we are looking at. This would provide much better and more direct access to "our" land, yet constitute a fairly small part of the other plot, and that part being at the very end of the other plot I think. Unfortunately the other owners are not currently interested in selling their land, and if they sell that small plot at the end to us, they might need to get a right of access permission from us instead, to access their own land (not sure, will have to go back and check the land again to see). Not that we will mind providing that access of course, but I can understand that not being in their best interest unless we paid a lot extra for that small plot. Will see how this idea goes.

The problem about electricity is that the closest neighbour paid 1M for it a handfull years back. This was probably mainly because he had to install and purchase his own transformer, for some reason. As I understand it, this should only be necessary if he for some reason was fed high voltage from the power company, rather than the regular low 230 voltage the rest of us are getting in to our house, though I'm not an EE so not sure how this works. Why this was necessary I do not yet know, but it is of course something it is necessary to find out, too see if it will apply to us also.

Unfortunately, this neighbour paid roughly the same amount, 1M, for the water. He naturally indicated the expense would depend much on what quality of water we wanted. I guess the quality of his water is quite good, pumped up from 90 meters and passing through four filters. He thought it may now be possible to connect to city water, as of half a year ago or so, but was not sure, so want to check that also of course.

An additional 2M in costs would change the desirability of this land very much, so I would obviously like to be certain the costs for us will be more reasonable than the costs our possible future neighbour incurred some 5-6 years ago. That, or we may have to live in a large tent on that land for many years to come, while I continue slaving and earning money on various off-shore contracts.

There unfortunately seems to be a fair amount of things to check and verify here, which is one of the reasons we were looking for an already built house initially. The land is however also unusually nice and and well priced, much better than anything else we have seen these last 3-4 months since we started looking. The closest thing we saw before this was a single-floor 3BR house on almost 200 TW, next to a river, located roughly between Central Festival and Promenada. Unfortunately, we would like at least two more bedrooms, otherwise we might have tried for that house. If anybody else might be interested in that house, I can perhaps put you in touch with our agent. Price was about 3.5M.

As a right of access permission now appears to at least be likely, we will continue checking the other things. And since the geological survey I would like to have done, at least on one part of the land (presumably roughly in the middle of where the house will stand), is not exactly free either, right to access can hopefully be formalised before paying for the survey, perhaps as the last step before paying for the land. Unless there is a non-symbolic cost involved in this, I do not see any reason why this can not be formalised as soon as possible, as even if we do not buy the land, other prospective buyers would presumably request it.

Many thanks to you and the other members who have provided insightful comments and suggestions so far. It is much appreciated.

With kind regards, a very novice land-buyer.

Are you aware of these facts?

A farang may own the following types of properties:

1) a condominium.

2) a house as a structure, having no interest on the land on which it sits

3) one rai (or less) of land, provided at least 40 million baht is brought into the country, and permission is obtained from the Minister of the Interior.

4) If purchase of the land is bought under a registered company that meets all the imposed requirements of the foreigner business and company acts.

Yes, thank you. Though I am unsure about whether 3) has ever been granted, in the entire lifetime of that law.

Thanks for the interest. The main plot of the land has a proper paper (Chanote/Nor Sor 4), and is in a fairly even rectangular shape. The land without paper is a small plot extending on one side, which I think is of little consequence, except that I am not interested in paying anything extra for it, and as far as I am concerned, is not part of the deal.

Aside from that I think we have to be extra careful here, as the land has apparently been for sale for many years already, yet it looks like quite a good deal to me, so I am not sure why nobody has snapped it up before. When we visited again yesterday, we also saw a Thai couple looking at it.

The land is a bit out in the wilderness, and as-is I can understand that not everybody may want to stay there. One of the neighbours paid a very hefty sum in order to get electricity and water (a well was the only option at that time, but he thinks that particular aspect may have improved recently). Also not yet sure who owns the dirt-road used to access this plot, and the 2-3 surrounding plots. Mrs. Awk says "nobody" owns it, but I can't imagine that is correct. Hopefully we will get some more answers next week as she starts visiting the various governmental offices, and the dirt road will turn out to be government owned.

With the land not being the regular moo ban plot surrounded by countless other houses, where one can at least assume that everything important is in order, and it already having been for sale for a while with no buyer, I think it will also be important to, once Mrs. Awk to the best of her abilities, has determined everything seems to be in order, including that connecting to electricity and city water is not cost prohibitive, have a decent lawyer review everything again.

I have not previously had a good reason to contact a lawyer, but many here seem to recommend a particular lawyer at 29 Tanin, so will try her first, unless others have some other recommendations.

I don't think anything is cheaper in Singapore.

Some years ago, some top of the line motorcycle helmets (Shoei, Arai, etc.) cost twice as much in Thailand. 20,000B vs 10,000B. Perhaps still the case, but I don't know.

Notwithstanding the response from the local village idiot, if somebody has compared the price of the same brand of good quality suitcases in the different countries, perhaps he would be able to answer intelligently, rather than talking about pieces of string. Lack of local market/competition and special taxes make some imported things very expensive here.

To all most some of the other members: many thanks. One respectable member messaged me in private that he hopes to find the contact info for somebody who can examine the soil properly, having previously having had that done himself. In case he does not manage to find that info, contact info from other members would sure be appreciated, if anyone has it.

Thanks.

Fortunately the info from the previously mentioned highly respected member still worked, though the company had changed name.

Price was a bit more than I hoped, quoted at 15,000B per drilling, and with at least two drillings at different places recommended. So that's something I will put of for last, when everything else, which can be checked much cheaper, has been found to be in proper order. That being mainly connecting to the power grid, water, access to land, and land papers of course. The latter appears to be mostly in order, but one small section at the end of one side, which I at first thought was not part of the plot, is supposedly part of the plot, but with "no paper".

I am assured by the Thais involved none of this will be any problem, not even the paper-less land, but being a worry wart personality that has strong control freak flare- ups (thanks for that free diagnosis. Was worth every penny), Mrs. Awk will have to check this for herself with the relevant departments, hopefully getting a written quote too if that is possible. While the land area without paper is not a deal-breaker if not included, I cannot imagine paying any money for that land either. Hopefully it will be possible to get papers for that section also without too much cost.

A worry is also flooding, and the dirt road that provides access to the land. I might have to exchange the Bentley for a 4wd pickup, as strongly recommended by the neighbour who could not imagine us accessing the land during the rain season with our current mode of transportation.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

Land and house?

Under the current old fashioned criminal Thai law foreigners in Thailand can certainly pay for any land however you will never own or control that land...

So in case you like to donate your investment over to your wife go for it.I sure have many nice land plots out there..

If that is not your plan then better start looking for condos freehold and can in the name of the person who puts the money on the table !

Actually I am planing to put the land in the dogs name.

To all most some of the other members: many thanks. One respectable member messaged me in private that he hopes to find the contact info for somebody who can examine the soil properly, having previously having had that done himself. In case he does not manage to find that info, contact info from other members would sure be appreciated, if anyone has it.

Thanks.

first stop is to pick up a flood plane map from the local ampur for the area, then look at zoning (ampur has access to this also) for the area of intrest. water, electric avaliablity, airport, schools hospital, temple near by etc.

good luck

Thank you for the tips. Hopefully I will in the not to distant future be asking for tips on a good building crew. :-)

Hi. We've been looking around the last few months for either a house, or land to build house on, and have now found what looks like a nice plot of land.

I wonder if any members can recommend some competent people/businesses who can help us evaluate how well the land is suited for building a house?

"sister high up in the government helps too."

Really, don't brag that your wife's sister is a security at a local amphur. No one gives a crap.

If she isn't mayor or governor, which she isn't, then she isn't high up anything.

I hate braggards, especially when it has nothing to do with anything. Unless you are admitting on a public forum that your in law is corrupt and uses her power to get her family advantage.

Besides that bosting on your part how succesful a wife you have, the story is great. Just because there are morons on here that tear you down, you don't need to inflate your ego or situation by boasting.

Why do guys need to give their wive's resume to justify the validity of their relationship?

While I agree with you in general, I think those statements are misplaced in this story. Rather the op was honest and indicated his own wife was not "high up", and thus negotiations were better done by somebody other than his own wife. It just added a little to a slightly amusing story and is nothing to berate the op with. Best of luck to him with the new land.

http://www.elephantnaturepark.org/ This place will cost 2500 Baht per a person, but in my opinion is the best place to go to see elephants. You do not get to ride them but spend a full day interacting and observing them. They also treat the animals much better than the majority of places.

This is the place I also went to many years ago. While I do not remember the prices, I do remember it was the most expensive. So what made us go there was that I read some good things about this place, including that they take care of the animals well, are run by a person that seems to have the animals best interest in mind, and the money is used for taking care of the animals, and not for profit.

That was my impression then. Not sure if it was right then, or now. Perhaps the OP, if interested, will do his own research and report back. Thinking about making another trip to such a place in the near future, so also interested in what place would be best to go to.