Awk
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Unless the mother willingly agrees to sign over full custody to you, I believe you have no chance with even the best lawyer. Without full custody you cannot relocate the child outside of Thailand against the mother's wish, and it is normally not reasonable or fair for the court to grant you full custody against the mother's wishes so you can putter off to farangland, where the mother may never see her child again. Unless there's something special about mother (drug addict, violent, child abuser, etc.) I think starting a process with a thai lawyer at this point is a waste of money and time.
Thailand is a signature to the Hague convention of 1981 regarding child abduction and this is the only judicial avenue I think can help, but as you say, this may take some time (several months at a minimum probably) and the end result is uncertain. Thailand should return the child to the country it was domiciled, but if the mother refuses to co-operate, how much manpower will the Thai authorities use to track the child down and return it by force from it's Thai mother? Regardless of that, if perusing this avenue one must obviously start the process as soon as possible, and this you must do in your home country where the child was domiciled. The longer the child stays away from it's domiciled home, the more the odds will be in favour for letting the child stay where it is now.
A bad situation, but unless the mother cooperates I think your only option for returning the the situation to normal in a reasonable amount of time is to return home with the child alone, assuming you can get through passport control.
That you do not have the passport the child entered Thailand might be a big issue in this situation, where you want as few raised eyebrows as possible when your are exiting Thailand alone with your child. Even with that passport, you need to be prepared to be asked some questions about where the mother is when you exit Thailand. Especially since it sounds like you and your child's date of entry to Thailand will be different, a competent officer will probably wonder more than a little about the reason for that. -
5 hours ago, Gregster said:
Good advice. Sounds a better plan (IMO) than arriving in a new country at six in the morning and then having to make AT LEAST 6 or 7 phone calls from the airport before being able to tell the taxi driver which hotel to take you. That is providing of course you’re successful in one of the 6 or 7 giving you an early check-in. If not successful, you’re left to roam the streets for half a day....AFTER AN ALL-NIGHT FLIGHT. No thanks :))
It hardly means that. At any point in the process of making those 6-7 phone calls, the guy might call it quits and pay for an extra night if that is what the hotel staff demand on the phone there and then. If you are staying at an expensive hotel, up to 6,000 as the op indicated, spending a few minutes on the phone for a fairly good chance to save up to 6,000 would be worth it for many.
So worst case scenario is that the op ends up doing what seems to be your fairly worthless suggestion to this thread: pay for an extra night. Best case: saves the price of the extra night.
And that is by the way, at least one phone call, not at least 6-7 phone calls. Obviously the guy can get lucky on the first call.
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On 10/6/2017 at 8:44 AM, pgrahmm said:
And still driving around hot....
I just had a t-stat housing, waterpump, oil seal, fan belt, and cooling system renewed with distilled water & coolant on our Daughters college car - Honda Civic.....The whole thing was barely 3,000B....
E-gawd
You're possibly spending more time, confusion, & money tromping around all over the place in the heat doing it catch as catch can - better off to just take it in & have Tonn and his guys fix the darn thing - they do warranty what they do....
Yep, that's what I do. Mr. Ton and Pro Auto is a gem of a shop here in CM.
But there's a special kind of satisfaction in getting your hands dirty and working on something like this yourself, a satisfaction that is not related to saving time or money. Cheers to Mr. Cheeryble.
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On 9/21/2017 at 10:12 AM, darrendsd said:
This maybe so
This is all maybe so and I do not doubt you but all this complex info is not going to help the OP get his problem sorted
Only following what some posters have advised him to do (including yourself in another post) will resolve his problem
Hopefully he will but even when he does I doubt he will ever be told the exact reason why it happened, he will just be told it is now sorted and you can fly to Thailand again
But it does provide a quite good explanation to the OP regarding what has quite likely happened. Thanks to 007 Red for that. It was interesting to read. It would also indicate that trying again, possibly with another airline, will not help, unless there has been so many complaints since the OP's last denied boarding that Thai immigration have become aware of a systemic problem and started to recheck all old entries for correctness by themselves.
I suspect 007 Red's suggestion of turning up at immigration in Thailand may be the best way of getting the problem fixed, after entering through a land border where there will presumably be a human who will examine the records of his ban, and not an automated computer system rejecting him.
I also like UbonJoe's idea of contacting the local Thai airways office for help as a first try, showing them the old passport too. Would not expect the OP being able to make the local Thai embassy take any interest in such a problem.
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On 9/13/2017 at 1:43 PM, c411um said:
Apologies for not giving enough details.
Daughter was born in Bangkok and has lived here for 10 years (she's 10).
My ex is Thai.
Joint custody was awarded here in Thailand through Thai courts.
Ex-gf is working in Sweden and currently living with her new partner.
Just to be clear - although I will miss her, I am happy for her to go to Sweden provided I am assured she is entering a safe, stable environment. Having lived with her mother for almost 5 years I am sceptical of this. However, I have only ever encouraged my daughter to spend time with her mother. Of course I will probably only see her once a year, but it could be a good opportunity to learn another completely useless language, which incidentally is something my daughter excels at. She's fluent in both Thai and English, and is proficient in Chinese.
I think my problem is with how it may materialize. My ex is irrational and ignorant.
She will be here next year and I know that she will take my daughter without my permission which is why I asked the original questions.
Can she apply for a new passport without my consent?
No.
On 9/13/2017 at 1:43 PM, c411um said:Will she be able to leave the country without my consent?
Yes. Possibly you can ask the court to put your child on the "no exit" list, if you can convince the family court you have good reason to suspect mother will take your daughter away from Thailand and not bring her back. The child should then be blocked from leaving Thailand. Unless you have some strong evidence, I don't think this will happen however. But if you have her passports, this is hopefully not necessary anyway.
On 9/13/2017 at 1:43 PM, c411um said:If she succeeds and I travel to Sweden, will their namby-pamby government interfere?
Not sure what would happen if you turn up in Sweden. You would not be registered there as a father with shared custody, at least not initially, so don't see how you would have any rights to your daughter in Sweden. How would you even prove you are her father? The Hague treaty is the way to handle this I think.
If you were Thai, you would open a Hague case from Thailand (not Sweden) citing that the child was domiciled in Thailand until the mother without permission abducted the child to another country. The Swedish authorities should reasonably quickly (in two-three months?) return the child to you in Thailand, by force if mother refuses. They would say mother should bring a case against you in Thailand if she wants full custody and move with the child to Sweden without your permission, and mother may get some legal problems in Sweden due to her actions too (taking the child away to Sweden without permission).
But you are not Thai, only your daughter is. I'm not sure if the Thai authorities would help you the same way they would help a Thai parent in this case. Maybe they would, but I'm not sure.
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On 7/26/2017 at 8:18 AM, Mansinthe said:
Do they have CCTV on the bus ? MAYBE she did return it cuz of that.
Indeed. A doctor friend of mine says what "really" happened was that this doctor noticed he had forgot the bag on the bus when he got off, started to follow the bus and also called the bus company to alert them that he had forgotten something on the bus and please call the the driver off the bus, ask him to find the bag and take care of it until the passenger has caught up with the bus. For some reason, the driver then opened the backpack to examine the contents.
If this story is true, I can't say I would blame the doctor all that much for giving the driver a candybar or two. Rather I'd wonder why the bus driver thought it necessary to examine the bag the passengers bag after being told the passenger was coming to collect it. Did the bus driver even find it necessary to count the money?
Doesn't match the story printed her too well, which said the passenger got the bag back at the police station, so I don't know what is true either.
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On 6/26/2017 at 10:14 AM, bkk6060 said:
Has anyone every been to a Mexican restaurant in CM or for that matter anywhere in Thailand that has fresh Guacamole? Many have it on the menu but I have never found it available always get the ¨not have¨.
Try salsa kitchen on huay kaew road, opposite the shell station that is 200m up from kad suan kaew in the direction of MAYA.Sometimes they have, sometimes they don't.
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47 minutes ago, flare said:
Most Muay Thai gyms have trainers that are also good boxers, and they'll be happy to spar with or train you in that discipline. I'd ask at whatever gym is local to you, and I'd be surprised if they couldn't accommodate you.
I disagree with that. Most Muay Thai guys are pretty bad boxers, which is no wonder as they spend 80+ percent of the training time on other things than throwing punches with their hands. The stance of Muay Thai is also very different from boxing.
So I don't think attempting to train boxing with muay thai guys is a good idea.
I've seen the occasional advertisement for western boxing here in Chiang Mai, but can unfortunately not remember any off-hand at the moment. Possibly it was at Chiang Mai university or at the big 700 years sport centre?
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No recommendations for dealers, but I bought an old car (Toyota) some years ago from the owner for about 100,000. I took it to Pro Auto as they had been recommended here (Ton there speaks fluent english and is nice to deal with) and asked them to check things out. Paid a little money for it, which I think they said they would refund me if I later brought the car back to them to fix things. Which I did. Been happy with the service ever since.
If I were to buy a second hand car again, from dealer or not dealer, I'd take it to Pro Auto again.
Actually now that I think about it I do have a non-firsthand recommendation for dealer: Toyota Sure. These shops sell not too old Toyota cars and at least one mechanic recommended me to go there if I wanted to get a good second hand car, as he thought they did a decent job of checking things out before taking a car in for sale. Since they honour their warranty he said, it'd be in their very best interest to check things properly too of course.I don't think you'll find 100,000B cars there, but maybe you can find a 250,000B car there? I'd take it to Pro Auto too though, just in case. It does not cost much to have them check it and you'll get an independent opinion, assuming Toyota Sure does not mind.
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I believe there are two certificates you can get. One is "kor sam" (kor 3), which is the original, fancy one. As far as I know, you cannot get a replacement for this. That is at least what I was told.
The second one is "kor song" (kor 2). This you can get at any (?) amphur just by turning up with your passport and asking for it. Some immigration offices ask for this, to show that the marriage is still current, as kor song is provided with the date you ask for it, so should be easy to get. Somebody can get this on your behalf too I think, because somebody offered to get it on my behalf. They asked for my passport (original) in order to get it, but perhaps it's possible without handing out your passport to somebody too. Perhaps the Thai embassy where you are could help too.
I'm not aware of any police reports required, and it was certainly not required for "kor song". Will you get a new "kor sam", the fancy one, if you turn up at the amphur with a police report?
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One thing to note is that when I switched, AIS gave me the opportunity to buy any of several "packages" at half price for the first year. I said I'd think about it later (thought I'd just continue with prepaid, as I used on DTAC) but the AIS staff said the half price offer was only available now when I switched. Buying it later would require paying the standard rate. At that rate, the deal is much better than what I had at DTAC. Maybe DTAC will also offer me to pay half the rate if I switch back to them in a year, when my half-price deal at AIS runs out?
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Can anyone recommend a shop designing business cards and company paper?
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2 hours ago, heybruce said:
This issue came up several years ago. If I remember correctly the rational was that if the musicians are drawing paying customers into the business, then they need a work permit even if they aren't paid. That was the local interpretation of the law by the police at the time, however the thinking may be different now. This strikes me as one of those areas where the answer you get depends on who you ask and how you ask. If you know someone who knows how things work, and how to make them work in Thailand, you may be able to do it.
By a restaurant in Nimman, do you mean somewhere in the Nimmanhamin road area, or a place called Nimman?
If I remember correctly somebody here said the problem was that someone in the group jamming was bragging on facebook or whatever how he got free meals/beer or something in return. True or not I have no idea, but I've seen at least one restaurant/bar regularly having a farang trio playing/jamming there. If the OP (and only the OP please) wants to know the name of restaurant in order to ask the owner about it, she can message me. The owner seems a friendly enough guy, but no idea of whether he, like the OP, just assumes it's ok, or has actually checked it with someone. The restaurant is in a busy area though, so if somebody were to complain they possibly would have done so already.
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MikeyIdea, many thanks for your thoughts and realism. Especially about trying hard to get in writing some way to guarantee that any final ruling will be adhered to by HP.
Admittedly, you have now shattered all my hope of a quick improvement to the current, horrible, day to day life situation, but it is better to expect the worst.
Based on what you say, especially about not boring the judge/mediator with stories on HP's behaviour, I then think my best course of action might be to concentrate on how the children suffer now. How terrible the living environment for them is, living in constant worry that that their mother will start screaming and attacking their father. How will seeing all this violence affect my children?
Mention I have recordings of this on my phone, here, now, in the faint hope the mediator will ask to see it.
Mention shortly how I alone have supported HP and her daughter from a previous relationship for 10 years, up until recently, and then talk about how much I have cared about my own children regarding education and upbringing. That their mother is now doing her best to prevent the children from spending time with their father, and give some examples of this. Mention I have recordings of this too.Talk about the children's education needs. How it's only their father (sans an external tutor) who can help them with school and homework. That it is better for the children to stay with their father, at least for half the week. That the children have both a father and mother, and need to spend time with both of them without having to worry one parent will start screaming or attacking the other parent.
Go in with the mindset initially that all assets must be sold and shared equally. That I am willing to continue to pay alone for a good school for my children as long as I am the one who decides what school they will go to. The cost of HP and her own daughter is fully on HP, though HP must share with me the other costs of bringing up our mutual children, except the school fees. Pay for her own apartment/house, whatever.
My worry about this is that she will say something like "fine, but then she will move to her rural family village and send the children to a temple school there.", as she has threatened to do before. Will need a way to prevent that. If I am the one who decides where the children will go to school, and somehow that can be enforced, she cannot do that I guess, but not sure how to make that the reality.
And yes, based on what you've written I will attend with my own interpreter.Unfortunately my own lawyer just now, after I informed him HP's own lawyer seems to have told HP I do not have grounds for divorce, says my chance of divorce is only fifty-fifty due to the lack of witnesses willing to testify. According to Thai law, he says, my own video recordings of violence are only of some, but limited, interest, and can not compare with an eye witness. I was much shocked and saddened to hear that.
With kind regards, Awk.
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37 minutes ago, happylarry said:
The judge will only take it to a second negotiation if he sees hope and improvement in the first meeting, but from your descriptions it does not seem likely, so he wont want to waste his and everybodys time I would have thought.
HL
Thank you for the information. I cannot imagine HP would offer me anything more than the children staying with me half the time, and even that only if her lawyer convinces her that is what I will get as a minimum when the judge rules anyway.
In that case I am starting to wonder whether, unless HP should, after a year of terror, suddenly get a change of heart and want to maintain a normal, polite, relationship with her children's father, a ruling by the judge would be in both the children's and my own best interest then. Extra money/assets I would otherwise have to offer HP, to support HP and her own daughter in exchange for a mutual agreement I could then instead save for my own children.
My lawyer has warned me that a ruling from the judge would not be good for anyone. There would be no room for HP and me to adapt it to what we felt would be better for both of us, and that more worrying, in cases where there are two children, the judge will often rule that one child will stay with each parent. The latter would be horrible for the children, and I was very surprised and saddened to hear that. I am not sure if that is true or not however. Hopefully not.I'm wondering what the risk would be that the judge would not rule that the children will stay with me (a normal man with a respectable job and no adverse history/record of any kind) at least half the week? Before I thought that I may risk ending up with just visitation rights (horrible), or with just one of my daughters "all" of the time, and depend on HP for seeing my other daughter even just sometimes, but perhaps my fear is unfounded?
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11 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:
- How could I change HP's lawyer or HP's feelings about this?
Good question :) How's mummy's and her relatives financial situation? If mummy needs money, then money is clearly a weapon, child allowance you pay now sets a standard for the future so minimum already now. Minimum acceptable used to be 100 baht per day and child (as advised by court officer), perhaps more now but not more than 130 baht a day I think. 2 kids * 30 * 130 = 7,800 per month. How much did your lawyer advice? If money is a weapon that can be used, then I'd go straight down to 7,800 or less now and fill up the refrigerator instead, keep the receipts and add them down to the last Baht to what you transfer. It's enough to prove that you support your children - but mummy wants money. You will of course always be happy to help, pay some extra when mummy wants to take the kids to see her grand parents, goes on holiday with the kids... Not formal though
At the moment her financial status is quite good I think, due to her (illegally?) refinancing the car, which is part of our shared property. My lawyer says she will be forced to pay me back half of the money she got at the end of the case, but I doubt that will happen in practice. It's enough money for her daughter's school fees, lawyer, etc. I of course no longer pay of the car (but have not told her exactly why), so she will either have to start paying of that herself with the money she stole in the refinancing deal, or they will take the car I guess. Unfortunately, she says she will then drive my two children to school on her small motorbike. So I am not sure what to do. If I again start paying of the (now much larger car loan), she can of course refinance it again in some months, and get new cash. I hope the judge/mediator can help me. If HP is forced to return the money she got via refinance now, I could pay of the rest of the car loan (not much was left, but it was an interest-free loan sponsored by the car company) and have the book transferred to my name. But I cannot force this. :-/
At the moment I pay 3,000 per week, transferred to her account. She constantly complains that is too little, and the first month I was taking the children to the grocery store every second day after school to buy whatever was needed for food and household items (yes, I kept the receipts thank you), before going to the house and cooking dinner for everyone (HP and her daughter too). Now HP no longer "allows" me to pick up the children however, so I no longer do that, though sometimes I have to join her to buy food and things for the children at the cheaper Thai markets where no receipt is usually given. That does not happen after she secured her horde of cash via the refinancing almost two months ago however.
11 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:HP's status quo is great.... Yes, she has the kids
I'd still make clear from the beginning that there will be zero money for mummy's living costs - oh, she will hate that :) I'd upset her (and always be ready to video film when she cracks, that's why I like the spy pen). The house was bought while you were legally married so it must of course be sold, half of any debt left when loans for the house is paid off is her debt, stop paying for the car if she has one, always only pay school by direct transfer and nothing else. Let her lawyer know that you will be hard demanding your right, what is best for the children and you will just let court order if you don't get it.
Unfortunately the debt on the house is in farangland (a neighbouring country of yours, as it happens), so my lawyer tells me it will not be of any interest to the judges here in Thailand. It is mine alone.
If the final verdict is that the children are to stay with HP half the week, I would for the children's sake prefer they stay at the house I bought, to be safe and have a pleasant environment to live in. More pleasant than I can offer with my apartment unfortunately (though that is also decent enough), but if the children stay with me on weekdays mostly, they will be in school and kindergarten most of the day anyway.
11 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:I must go home now but I'll continue with the rest later
Thank you very much. Looking forward to it.
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1 hour ago, happylarry said:
I just wanted to clarify what the negotiation hearing is about for you , because you keep mentioning showing the judge video's etc.
You will be in a room with your wife and your respective lawyers and an interpreter if you don't speak Thai fluently. (you must know what is being said!) Also a judge will be present to act as mediator and that is all. He will not be making any judgements whatsoever except if he can see the meeting is going nowhere then he finishes it and then you get given a date for the main hearing.
The meeting is simply for the lawyers to talk to each other on your behalf and try to come to a mutually acceptable agreement to both of you.
Once it moves on to the main hearing in court you get a totally different and more senior judge who then looks at all evidence and gives his judgement.
Hope this snippet helps mate.
HL
Thank you. As I have understood it from my lawyer, the mediator (usually a retired judge I'm told) would have power to help issue a temporary ruling that could remain valid until the divorce is complete. So if HP is now preventing me from seeing my children, the mediator could, if he so wishes, issue an order that the children are to e.g. stay with me some days of the week. In this regard, he may (or may not) be interested in seeing a video of HP refusing to let me enter the house, kicking and punching me, while the children cry and try to keep the door open for me.
I now however understand it quite unlikely to happen that the mediator/judge will issue such an order in the negotiation phase. :-/
Only if the mediator feels there is no way whatsoever that the two parties will reach any mutual understanding will the negotiation phase finish and we will progress to the next step, with a "real" judge who will evaluate evidence and make a ruling. Normally, there will be several negotiation meetings, so after the first meeting, we will meet again in a month or two, and then again after that perhaps, before the mediator gives up and sends the case up to the "real" judge.
Please correct me if my understanding is wrong.
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20 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:
< many interesting things>
> Also tell court how you are going to take care of the children while you work and request court to clarify how mother is going to care for the children while she is working - If you have no plan for how / possibility to take care of the children while you work, then how can a responsible father let you have the children that time? Then you should have Mon to Fri and she gets days when she can take care of them, Sat Sun. That sets you up for education nicely
Thank you. That is a good idea. My goal is to as a minimum have the children with me Monday to Thursday, as that's the days they will have homework from school for the next day. From reading things posted by you and others, I however gather that is quite likely to happen anyway?
> - The only thing I can imagine will change her mind about this is if HP's lawyer tells HP the judge is most likely to grant me full custody, and she will lose all.
> That won't happenIf HP's lawyer tells HP that HP can agree to something like 50/50 regarding custody now, or wait for the judge to order 50/50 sometime in the distant future, I'm sure HP will chose the latter. How could I change HP's lawyer or HP's feelings about this?
HP's status quo is great. She stays in the house I recently bought with money from the bank (my last stupid attempt to part on favourable terms, when divorce was already certain), takes the children wherever she wants after school so I cannot see them. Never telling me where or for how long the children will be away from the house with her, and much of the time makes it impossible for me to see the children. She ignores my phone calls (has even blocked me) and messages, or replying the children will come back to the house
when I have left the house and are no longer waiting inside, or that the children are "hers only".She also receives from me, as advised by my lawyer, "child support money" to her account every week, so she cannot later claim in the court that I do not support my children.
My status quo is quite the opposite as you can guess. I spend much time driving around trying to see my children, using more than an hour going back and forth, only to be able to see my children for a few minutes, and sometimes not even that. All depending on how HP feels that particular day, I may see my children after school for anything from zero minutes to some hours.
> - The first day in court was actually a few weeks ago, but an assistant for HP's lawyer turned up in regards to a request from them for postponing the first meeting
> That is normal, she has the kids so benefits from the delay, she will play that card more
What can I do to make HP's lawyer, and then presumably HP herself too, feel that it is not in her best interest to keep postponing things as long as they can? Or if I cannot make her feel that, is there anything I can do that may reduce her opportunity for delaying things?
Is my only hope that the judge will, for some rare and unlikely reason I now understand, temporarily rule that the children will stay with me some days of the week?
> - the one day in court was extremely disappointing to me, letting HP continue keeping the children away from me as before without being able to say anything
> The mother will continue to keep the children away, the judges won't act as hard as you'd expect or want.
I'm very sad to hear that. I will have to try to prepare myself mentally for this then. Last time I was quite unprepared and broken hearted about the result, which consisted of the judge doing nothing more than granting HP's request to postpone.
> I'd advice you to buy a hidden camera like one of the pens with HD video and microphone they have at Pantip (can be bought on the internet too) and "set the mother up" = let her dig her own grave. Request access to the children and calmly say things in line with the law that will make her violent and video record everything. Don't even protect yourself if she hits you, just let her do it and say - I just want to see our children. Put your hands in your pockets and say that (not on video) and that you just want to see the children and try to pass her and let her forcefully stop you 10 times. The more the better.
Thank you. I already have several videos of that nature, even though she broke the first phone I used to record her attacks.
> You can burn a CD and request to hand it in as evidence. The main point that you lawyer won't tell you is that you can just sit down and refuse any deal regardless of if they don't accept to look at it or not - OK, let's continue this in the Appeals court then -> pressure goes over to the mother
Can you please clarify what you mean by refusing any deal regardless of whether they accept to look at it or not?
I've asked my lawyer to submit some videos as evidence now, before the postponed hearing. I wanted to submit the videos now before the next meeting, so that the negotiator/judge would hopefully become aware of the videos, increasing the chance he will be interested in seeing them.
My lawyer however tells me we cannot submit it to the court now "because it is negotiated proceeding. After, there will be the trials then we can submit everythings to the Court."
I know you are not a lawyer, but is that your experience too? In the initial request for divorce, police reports were submitted, but no videos, and while I still have a favourable impression of my lawyer, I have become a little concerned with his willingness to do enough. Perhaps this is partly due to our financial agreement, where he gave me a fixed price for the work up to the first negotiation (half paid when he started, half to be paid after the first negotiation).
My lawyer advised me to prepare the video regardless of that however, in case the negotiator would become curious and want to see it. "Who knows?", as he said.
I think the videos, as well as recordings of HP shouting/screaming at my children for going with me, will give a correct impression of how things are now. I am thinking a lot on how to increase the chance that the negotiator/judge will want to see them at the first negotiation.
> - we would be able to ask for the judge to make a temporary ruling, saying I must be able to see the children, or even that the children are to stay with me some days every weeks
> Ask for it but don't expect it. More likely that you won't get time with the children until court case is over which leads to the question: Is the mother going to follow the court order then even? Build in safety rules if mutual agreement and don't accept if you can't - It is pretty useless to try to appeal a mutual agreementI asked my lawyer before what I could do if the judge made a temporary ruling, but HP did not adhere to it. My lawyer however did not answer anything except something along the lines of HP having to adhere to it, or the judge will not like it and things will become worse for her in the final ruling, which at the time made sense to me. But if there is no interest from the court in "punishing" HP for doing bad things, including not adhering to the ruling, perhaps my lawyer was wrong.
I did not consider that HP would not adhere to the final ruling however, which would of course be even worse. Can you think of any safety rules that could help discourage her from that?
Money seems the most obvious, but while HP likes to occasionally scream that she wants nothing from me; no money, no house, no land - I can have it all, just I stay away from "her children", she does not mean that of course. She knows I cannot let my children starve, go without clothes, school, etc.Currently HP, while not working, has recently managed to refinance the car I bought in her name on down payment, getting a considerable amount of cash in exchange for increasing the car loan which I had almost paid of.
HP does not know that I know this and have evidence of it. I want to show it to the court at the coming meeting. The result is however that HP has enough cash to pay her lawyer (presumably more expensive than my lawyer, since her lawyer is arriving by air), and school for her daughter - from a previous relationship -
for the time being. So at the moment, while pleading poverty and hunger (since she does not know I know she got the cash from the car finance company), she probably has plenty of money.
HP does have a child from before however (three years older than your daughter), which I have provided for financially (but not emotionally) for 10 years, and which has lived with us in Thailand. She receives no money or support from her father who, as far as I know, is doing quite well financially.
After HP started to become violent and physically try to prevent me from seeing my children about half a year ago, I told her I would no longer pay for her daughter (and explained this to her daughter too, who while no longer doing much to stop HP from attacking me in front of my children, perhaps due having given up on her mother in this regard, also seems to think HP is an idiot for doing what she does) unless HP stopped behaving like that.
I can not however prevent HP from spending the money I transfer her every week equally on her daughter, herself, and on my daughters, even if the money is intended for my children. I cannot blame HP for this either I guess, as this daughter of her is of course just as much her daughter as the children we share.
Not sure if I can somehow to use this - financial support of HP's daughter, or HP herself - to make HP stop delaying the final verdict, and then adhering to the final verdict. Surely I would have to offer to continue to pay for her daughter (which I, when I still had hopes of parting on good terms, told HP I would be happy to do) before I could use threat of not paying for anything.
Since the judge will not rule that I have to support HP or her daughter in any way, perhaps there's some way I can use this during the negotiations? Offer to pay school for HP's daughter during negotiations, and continue to pay for extra-curricular activities for HP's daughter if they are activities where my own children also participate? (E.g., music and art lessons, as now).
If HP can be made to understand that this is an offer she receives from me now during negotiations, but which she will for sure not receive if the judge will have to order things, perhaps it can make HP more interested in agreeing to a negotiated agreement?
> - However, we did not have any chance to ask for anything, and the hearing was immediately postponed
> Normal. Good too in this case, use time to get violent behavior on video
Thank you. Unfortunately I already have many videos and several police reports too, but did record both a new video and police report using the extra time now.
> - I have many recordings of HP's behaviour
> Leave out only screaming if you have enough violent behavior on video and push violent. I believe in taking the opportunity if it is given to you. If the judge wants to see, then make it short and show violence and when she physically stops you from seeing the children - Impression doesn't get much stronger because it is much longer
Thank you. I will then concentrate on the video where HP does exactly that.
> - big problem with the lack of any witnesses
> It will still matter IF she is favoured. Juvenile doesn't really see it like you do. Their goal is mutual agreement that both parties like that also is good for the kids, nothing more = punishment is not in their mind
>
> - where only my children were witnesses
> The judges will ask the children but alienation is strong. I don't know the kids age
About four years younger and 8 years younger than your Idea. HP has told them the judge wants to put mommy in jail, and probably other things too.
> - Even mutual friends who strongly disagree with HP's behaviour are unwilling to serve as witness for me.
> Thais will normally never witness because it is bad to get involved in private business regardless here
>
> I'd swap point 1 and point 2 around
> - 2) Try to describe how it will be better for the children to stay with their father, who is better suited to help them with school/homework, and who is the only one with a job
> ------ who is the only one with a job ------
> No, who will support the mother after you stop doing it? Both will work, right? :) You tell them your plan for who will take care of children when you work, who will the mother have when she works? Relatives advantage. You have nice house / apartment, what living will the mother offer the kids? You don't pay for that, only for the kids part. Better suited to help with homework yes, better suited to provide schooling yes. I don't know how old the kids are.
While I rent a decent apartment now (partly due to my children), it cannot compare to the house I bought for HP half a year back, where she and my children stay. The house has a superfice in my name, though not sure if/when that will become relevant. So perhaps this will not be a strong point for me, assuming HP will get the house?
Perhaps I will get a separate piece of land, also bought during marriage and which has no superfice, but which I cannot do much with except sell to help pay for loan I've taken out (in farangland) on the house.
If I were to get the house and live there with my children on the days the children are with me, I'm sure HP would just keep waltzing in to the house as before, pretending she is my wife, and refuse to leave. Also if the children are to be with HP part of the week, probably alone and without a man to protect them, at least initially, I would like them to stay in a safe and nice place, where HP already knows everyone. That is the main reason I bought the house (we rented in the same moo baan before); it's in a safe and nice place, and was the best I could afford (though I had to borrow all the money).
> Getting weekdays is a good way to truly and honestly win the childrens heart over time. Mummy can't keep up with that with only weekends in the long run. I don't know how old the kids are - the power of playing with them every day is very strong bonding until nearly teenager
>
> Always give mummy access and your hard work trying to be a good father will persevere, close her out and the children will miss what they can't have. Important to tell the court how you want to help the mother to see the kids, the mother won't (not going to be in the court agreement but keep it anyway)Thank you. I plan to do that and do not want to deprive the children of contact with their mother.
I saw in another post you mentioned being briefed by your lawyer on how to act in court. I asked my lawyer about this before, but he said to just relax and dress nicely. He said things will not be so formal at the negotiations, but mostly informal talking. Perhaps he feels my demeanor is so calm, polite, and appropriate for court that there is nothing to improve on, but I'm not absolutely sure about that.
Many thanks you for your advice.
With kind regards, Awk.
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On 10/21/2016 at 1:09 PM, MikeyIdea said:
1) Evidence is King: You use a lot of words to describe the mothers personality. If the mother is favoured in court, then none of that ever happened if you don't have evidence. It works the other way around too. If you are favoured, then court will use what you have to put pressure on the mother and ignore her ranting
1.5) Forgot: There is nothing that judges are more bored with than mothers and fathers fighting among themselves. You ranting about how bad the mother is not going to help the judges decide what is best for the childs' future. You need to present that you are the best parent for the future of the children and that you are happy to help your children to see their mother whenever they wants. If you're a good parent and she's a bad one, then they will clear the problem
2) Either legal guardian can veto that the child leaves Thailand until reach majority
3) Beware of the power of the intimidation that a mother (parent) can put on a child, I have it at home with my own daughter (same age as yours) and I have been interpreting in court and was disappointed with that Thai Juvenile courts didn't pay as much attention to parental alienation as they should have
4) Thai Juvenile court will not be biased against a westerner, they are generally very fair in that sense. It is your Thai lawyer that you have to watch out with. I have seen the Fathers lawyer supporting the mother more than the father in court. The big question is why and answer to that lies in point 5 below
5) Thai Juvenile Courts want mutual agreement in custody cases and they really go to length negotiating one. If the judges want a negotiated solution that is not good for you, then your Thai lawyer ends up in a difficult solution, he is so small compared to the judges and he is losing face if he fights hard for you. Your Thai lawyer is very unlikely to do this so beware here. The best workaround that I have found is to make very clear from the beginning that you prefer court order, not mutual agreement and you will not accept any mutual agreement that does not include what you fight for. Tell him court order good, mutual agreement bad and watch his face :) Tell him, I have evidence, if it's not good for my children then we just appeal and watch his face
6) Feelings matter more in Thai courts. The court puts pressure on the father to accept a mutual agreement if the mother is at advantage and vice versa. You say the mother calls the police over small things. Beware if she makes police reports planning to use them in court. You write that the mother is manipulative. A person like that is thinking and is likely to find other things to use to her advantage in court. They shouldn't matter of course as they are one sided but trust me, they do
7) You are at great advantage if you really have the children on your side - if they really accept to takes side and dare to - not good for the kids to have to do. The Thai judges will interview the child / children without parents and what the children says really matters
Don't believe your lawyer if he says that appeals take a long time in Thailand. They don't in Juvenile cases. You should be in the Appeals court within one year
Don't believe if your lawyer if he wants to postpone handing in formal evidence, witnesses - if the mother is favoured - . Yes, perhaps there is a more tactical time to hand in evidence / use witnesses but you can negate that by just forcing - You have seen my evidence / witnesses, order then. The judges have the evidence and will most likely choose to put pressure on the other party
I'd advise you to plan this carefully and don't rush. 6 to 12 months more won't matter in the long run. You can end up with 2 days for you 5 for the mother if she plays dirty. If you have good reasons then it shouldn't be too difficult for you to get 5/2. If a child is 12 years old, then it's sometimes possible to get that the child decides herself which parent he / she wants to be with.
Education and health costs for children is by default shared. Never give away that education cost should be shared without getting anything in return. If I decide school, sure I can pay, otherwise share cost...
Give them a secret diary and let them fill it in themselves.
The kids are 12, they will at the end of the day decide the outcome of this regardless of what the court says
All I can think of now, Good Luck
Mikey and Idea
Thanks MikeyIdea. That is a great post. Any other tips for the first hearing in court? I.e., while still in the "negotiation" phase?
My lawyer tells me this first meeting will be a more or less informal conversation where HP (mother of my children, who I want to divorce) and I will tell our stories, and the court representative (a retired judge in most cases, my lawyer) says, will try hard to make us mutually agree on something. I'm sure HP will not agree to anything less than full custody and continued financial support for her (she does not want to get a job) and my children. The only thing I can imagine will change her mind about this is if HP's lawyer tells HP the judge is most likely to grant me full custody, and she will lose all.
The first day in court was actually a few weeks ago, but an assistant for HP's lawyer turned up in regards to a request from them for postponing the first meeting, which the judge unfortunately granted without my lawyer being able to object. I would very much have liked to object because HP is refusing me to see my children, taking them away and becoming physically violent towards me when I attempt to be with them.
My lawyer said that at the first meeting we would be able to ask for the judge to make a temporary ruling, saying I must be able to see the children, or even that the children are to stay with me some days every weeks, Hopefully the judge would believe me when I describe HP's current behaviour (refusing to let me pick up the children from school, becoming violent towards me when I come to visit the children, screaming and shouting). However, we did not have any chance to ask for anything, and the hearing was immediately postponed by a month.
My lawyer tells me that something similar cannot happen again. That HP cannot postpone again, even should she claim sickness or whatever. I am however not sure about that, as the one day in court was extremely disappointing to me, letting HP continue keeping the children away from me as before without being able to say anything.
I have many recordings of HP's behaviour. My lawyer tells me that at this point, we are only negotiating. Hard evidence of anything is not to be argued over at this time (though we have submitted our police reports regarding violence from HP), but he advised I can bring with me my phone with the recordings. Who knows he said, maybe the judge will become interested and want to take a look.
My lawyer also advises me that I have a big problem with the lack of any witnesses, as all assaults happened in the home, where only my children were witnesses. On a few occasions, relatives of HP were present too, but they will surely not witness against HP. Even mutual friends who strongly disagree with HP's behaviour are unwilling to serve as witness for me.
Apart from video recordings like this, documenting HP's behaviour, I am re-reading my diary where I document how much time I am able to see the children every day (some days for just a few minutes), and preparing what to say in court.
So far I'm thinking this:
1) Do not bore the judge with describing how horrible HP is. Even if I can show videos from my phone should the judge want to see it himself, concentrate on how strongly HP's behaviour affects the children, seeing their mother repeatedly assault their father in front of them, threatening to kill him even. How upset this makes the children, how bad it is for them to see this.
2) Try to describe how it will be better for the children to stay with their father, who is better suited to help them with school/homework, and who is the only one with a job. How I have never tried to prevent HP from seeing the children, even though she does her best to prevent me from seeing them.
Even though my post above is embarrassingly messy, If any members have advice to add, please do.
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Great. Thanks.
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On 1/1/2017 at 9:21 PM, grumbleweed said:
What and miss out on all these priceless pearls of wisdom from some of the most knowledgeable minds in the universe?
If you haven't guessed it yet, people with more than 3 cognitive brain cells ask questions on here to determine what not to do, i.e. ask the lunatics what they would do
I'm paying for a lawyer now, but the smartest thing I did before I hired him was to read up on the subject at matter here and other places. After that, I discarded the two first lawyers I consulted as being of questionable competency.
Fortunately, amongst much noise here, much of which is generated by the "why ask here? Pay a lawyer/doctor/engineer/etc. right away instead"-group, who are probably collectively sharing the three brain cells you talk about, there are also people with enough knowledge and experience to help one choose a competent lawyer/doctor/engineer/etc. Much better than blindly trusting the answer from the first lawyer or wanna-be lawyer you meet.
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3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:
If you are getting a print out at an Amphoe it will have info that is equal to page one. Page 1 has the house number and etc on it.
Ah, that's great. So in that case, I will not need page one of the house book too, just the one page printout from Ampho with the child's address, right?
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11 hours ago, ubonjoe said:
You will need copies of page 1 and the page your child is registered of the house book.
You now need 400k baht in the bank or proof of income.
Ah, that's a pity. Amphur will provide a copy of the page the child is registered on, but no page one I'm told. So looks like this is not an option for me then, as I do not have access to the original house book for copying.
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On 1/6/2016 at 8:26 AM, ubonjoe said:
Only the child's birth certificate plus a copy and a copy of their house book registry is needed.
Nothing from the mother will be needed.
Can anyone confirm this is still the current requirement in Penang for a multi-entry non-o?
- Child's original birth certificate + copy.
- Copy of child's house book page (a single page).
- About 100,000 Baht in a bank account.
Advice about wedding
in Marriage and Divorce
Posted
That is a good idea, but unfortunately Thailand is not a signatory to the Hague convention that governs agreements regarding child custody and recognition of foreign court orders regarding this (that is the Hague convention of 1996). Thailand has only signed off on the Hague convention regarding child abduction (Hague convention of 1981), which would not help the op. A court order from the op's country regarding this would thus not have any legal power in Thailand.