On 10/5/2017 at 11:07 PM, amvet said:

1.  Where have the NFL players and owners written they are protesting against  "National Police Homicide Crime Wave Against Unarmed Black Americans?"  2.  If #1 is in fact true (I don't think it is) Who and what are they proposing be done about it? 3.  What will it take for the kneeling, sitting and black power saluting footballers to stop kneeling, sitting and black power saluting during the National anthem?

 

Of course your and the footballers idea (if it actually is there idea) is false. In reality, a randomly selected black man is overwhelmingly unlikely to be victim of police violence — and though white men experience such violence even less often, the disparity is consistent with the racial gap in violent crime, suggesting that the role of racial bias is small.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451466/police-violence-against-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say
 

In the OP.....

Instead, Kaepernick put one knee to the ground to protest against police violence against African-Americans. Several players have since made similar gestures of protest before games.

And in your post above, the 2nd graf. The post also presents a NR article to discuss police violence against black Americans -- from your point of view of course.

And in your hundreds of posts throughout the thread as the posts have didactically and ad hoc attempted numerous tacts, approaches, stabs, concerning violence against black Americans. You yourself in your right to post have produced many posts grifting to make the thread both ongoing and eternal. 

The 8 year old football players and coaches who took a knee presented their Constitutional and legal act in the context of a homicidal cop in St. Louis who shot and killed an unarmed black man and was acquitted in court for it. 

It is also the case that anyone who wants to avoid anger would need to start with himself which is what the eight year old footballers did. They went on record as Constitutionally and legally objecting to "black people being killed and nobody goes to jail."

The things kids say eh!

And do.

27 minutes ago, amvet said:

I don't know what a grift is or who a nihilist is but I'm sure the 8th graders and NFL footballers who are giving the black power salute during the playing of the American anthem do.  I know it will only be a short time before the race problems are completely solved in the USA because like I posted before I heard today on ESPN (appropriate venue for race problems) that the protests were about unity and love. 

 

I was thinking that those NFL guys who are kneeling and sitting and fisting the crowd who is standing should also be addressing the real grievance in professional football.  It used to be that black people wanted to play sports but white people wouldn't let them but now the blacks are 70% of the players.  NBA, NFL and Major league baseball there is only one black owner out of 92 teams and that's not fair.  

 

Violent criminal attacks are the best predictor of whom police might shoot in America* so I don't buy your argument about that but you are correct about there being a problem and I think it's in owner discrimination against people of color. 

 

*http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449505/police-shootings-black-men-race-not-reason-causal-effect

 

Remember like the footballers Love and unity. 

The issue before us is -- as I characterize it -- the National Police Homicide Crime Wave For Free Against Black American Citizens.

Exclaiming kumbaya love and unity is a grafting and grifting to the thread and topic. It is yet another strawman among the multiplicity of the strawman nihilist jigglings that dominate the thread.

I myself am talking the Constitution which involves our secular civil society predicated in the rule of law. When the authorities abuse the law or ignore the law then the people must act under their sovereign right and authority. That not all people are directly affected by the police homicides against them does not detract or diminish the matter, not does it detract from the serious nature of it. 

Love is nice but the rule of law is supreme. 

Your take is your take from where you sit over there. Your characterizations are mischaracterizations as far as I am concerned.

You in fact grift cultural cliche' and political tripe. So kindly cease trying to assign your nihilist thoughts to me -- or to others you disapprove of (which is just about everyone over here).

So here is a dose of reality. Eight year old footballers asked their coach about this. The coach presented it to the parents in the grandstand. Accordingly, this is what we have....

SEPTEMBER 21, 2017

Coach, parents support 8-year-old football players kneeling during national anthem to protest racial injustice

They decided to take a knee to support St. Louis protestors who are protesting the acquittal of a white cop who was accused of killing a black man.

“One of the kids brought it up and asked, ‘What’s going on in St. Louis? Why are they demonstrating and rioting?'” Gooden told the Belleville News-Democrat.

One of the kids told Gooden: “Because black people are getting killed and nobody’s going to jail,” Fox 2 St. Louis reported.

http://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/09/video-coach-parents-support-8-year-old-football-players-kneeling-during-national-anthem-to-protest-racial-injustice/

This is in respect of the unarmed innocent dead black Americans who were killed by police committing homicides. For free.

It is an ages old American value, i.e., when governments fail the people act. It is accountability to the people who are the sovereign authority. Always. Those who disagree or disapprove are not the members of the society who are being killed in the National Police Homicide Crime Wave Against Unarmed Black American Citizens.

Good on Tillerson because the one name being advanced everywhere is Nikki Haley the UN Ambassador.

Trump is Haley's ventriloquist. She is John nuke 'em all now Bolton without the mustache. (Bolton is not quite nutso, but only not quite.)

If it is true Munchin, Mattis and Tillerson have agreed to hang together rather than hang separately, then the three together would be blocking Haley from getting the SecState position. Mattis would of course be the most secure of the three in his position as SecDef.

Blocking is good if that might be what's occurring. Blocking would likely be what Tillerson is doing given all the involvement he has in holding off or minimizing Trump's chaos in foreign policy and national security. Still, one wonders if Tillerson conducting a counter foreign policy can make it to the end of the year before getting tossed.

If Haley does succeed Tillerson then 2018 will be the World Year of Living the Most Dangerously Ever. (With or without a UN vote!) Haley is tougher ideologically than Trump is in his chaos on NK, China, Russia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and so on.

1 hour ago, amvet said:

1.  Where have the NFL players and owners written they are protesting against  "National Police Homicide Crime Wave Against Unarmed Black Americans?"  2.  If #1 is in fact true (I don't think it is) Who and what are they proposing be done about it? 3.  What will it take for the kneeling, sitting and black power saluting footballers to stop kneeling, sitting and black power saluting during the National anthem?

 

Of course your and the footballers idea (if it actually is there idea) is false. In reality, a randomly selected black man is overwhelmingly unlikely to be victim of police violence — and though white men experience such violence even less often, the disparity is consistent with the racial gap in violent crime, suggesting that the role of racial bias is small.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451466/police-violence-against-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say
 

1. Nowhere is it written at the NFL by anyone of course. The question displays erratic logic and flawed reasoning to expect my characterization made at TVF to come from or be received at the NFL for any reason. The post is yet another OTT wild post among a couple of hundred of 'em from over there. Trump thrives on a spontaneous chaos too yet The Ignoramus Trump would go into brainlock if asked about Chaos Theory.

As to your questions two and three of the same graf, I am supporting what the demonstrating NFL protesters do and the many reasons they have provided many times to include their purposes and goals. I also support 'em for my own reasons to include their respectful Constitutional protest during the anthem. If you want still more of what NFL has said they're doing or why, you'd have to do your own homework. Y'know, read Twitter and other media stuff such as in National Review. I'm certain however it would change nothing over there.

While paragraph one is a runaway train graf two is flat out drivel (my opinion). Idle hands.

7 minutes ago, amvet said:

I know I've posted a big no no by actually disagreeing with you and that has opened me up to all sorts of slings and arrows but I only wanted you or anyone else to answer one question and no one seems able or inclined to do so. 

 

Are the kneeling, sitting and black powering footballers protesting to try and change anything and if so how? 

 

Seems to me they are having a temper tantrum till someone puts them to bed with no supper (fans).  More blacks than whites proportionately go to jail and get treated poorly, in general, by cops.  The players are trying to make everyone aware of this (I have some news for them - everyone is aware).

 

Please someone let me know if I have missed something and the players are trying to change anything or open up a meaningful dialog to make things better. 

 

I will certainly stop asking this question if you tell me you don't know the answer.  Or if you do know the answer please tell me.

We have the National Police Homicide Crime Wave against unarmed black Americans that erupted in recent years. It includes unarmed men, women, children being shot and killed. It is the classic instance of summary and arbitrary justice, which is no justice. A society without justice is bankrupt morally and legally.

Police work is a tough job so it is commendable that 98% of police do the right thing 98% of the time. However, 98% of the 98% also participate in the Blue Wall of Silence that protects the rotten core of the 2% who are killer cops.

Assassin Cops.

It is good and it is commendable to see many of the most prominent NFL players, personnel, owners go on the record as making a Constitutionally respectable statement against the lawless police and prosecutors who condone or who actively accept the National Police Homicide Crime Wave Against Unarmed Black Americans.

Authorities are failing to police the killer police who are killing for free. Both police and the authorities over them fail to honor their oath to the Constitution to serve and to protect, to faithfully execute and enforce the laws, and to support and defend the Constitution. The absence of professionalism is ghastly. The absence of it and the weak statements that attempt to cover over it suggest a nihilism.

So here we are continuing to pound the violators and their supporters and defenders, to include the nihilists. It is after all the Constitutional obligation that all of us have. We continue to pressure the oath violators and their backers to include the nihilists. So while we know there's no satisfying the lawless and absurdist elements over there they need to know someone is coming up to 'em face to face to read the Constitution to 'em. And the laws.

2 minutes ago, amvet said:

I just knew you had no idea why the players are kneeling and sitting and giving the black power salute. 

Pardon me but this is the same post to me of the past page plus. Which seems to confirm it matters not what any poster says.

It strikes me as rinse and repeat. Then spin.

11 minutes ago, amvet said:

I just knew you had no idea what they were trying to do.  I know you are trying to mock me enough so I'll get defensive but it takes a better click baiter than you. 

There are many better than me, as it were.

It's just that there are many here better than you....much better. 

Qualitatively better.

Daniel Pinkston is professor of international relations at the Seoul campus of Troy University who suggests that....

playing neighboring nations off one other for their respective favors is not a new North Korean tactic. It has manipulated China and Russia for its own ends in the past.

"That sort of back-and-forth was easier to pull off in the Cold War, but they seem to be trying to capitalize on their relations with Russia now that China has become more distant," the expert underlined. "And I think it is clear that North Korea will take whatever it can get in terms of political, diplomatic or military support, as well as resources."

http://www.dw.com/en/russia-steps-up-north-korea-support-to-constrain-us/a-38867861

CCP Boyz have yet to figure whether they are coming or going in all of this. Twice now since August PLA and Air Force have conducted live antimissile exercises at the Yellow Sea across from NK. The radical shift comes after years of the Boyz hollering against the U.S. Patriot system, the Aegis missile defense and Thaad going into SK. Kim can after all fire off his missiles in either or any direction which Putin and Xi are well aware of.

Putin is working to try to capitalize on the fact Boyz in Beijing know that they will catch equal blame for any worse mess that could occur on the Korean peninsula and in the region should the NK curse become worse or even acute. The entire region from Japan to Australia to India will put the collar on CCP Boyz in Beijing if there might be a failure to deal successfully with Kim III.

Acting separately and individually each Putin and Trump have outmaneuvered Xi Jinping on regional strategy and tactics. We see no evidence whatsoever Beijing is prepared to become a dominant regional power. So while Putin continues to try to limit and undermine the USA Putin is also stiff arming Beijing while buddying up to Kim III. Putin traveled to Pyongyang last year while Kim and Xi haven't met nor does either of 'em care to meet....

In this volatile environment, China’s continued support of a regime widely seen as a state sponsor of terrorism and a major threat to peace in the region will only damage Beijing’s international image and undermine relations with most of its important trade partners – South Korea, Japan and the US, among others.

China may now realise that continued inaction on North Korea conflicts with its aspiring international clout and contradicts its national interest. Kim’s weapons of mass destruction pose the same risk to China as they do to South Korea, Japan or the United States.

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/2075170/north-korea-loses-its-use-china-loses-its-patience

4 hours ago, amvet said:

You wrote, "Their cause is meritorious so all the dancing around it does not sustain itself."  I'm not dancing.  I simply asked what their cause is/was and you started trying to obfuscate."

 

As far as I can see it is another thing like the pants pulled down below the bottom of the young men.  It's just another way to piss off the dominant culture. 

 

Although this time they got you fooled.  They're just yanking your chain and having a laugh about it after the game.

So your posts in your current and ongoing 300-400 set of thread posts have the theme you don't know what they are doing or might be accomplishing. 

We said it wuz inevitable, i.e., youse guyz would run out of glib and facile answers after which would come the sophomoric questions. That is, replace juggling the fast afoot answers with silly statements from the football sandlot from when we wuz kids. 

Your autobiography is anyway impressive as you've presented it at the thread so it merits factoring in. Marched with civil rights protesters during the 60s, fought in Vietnam where you say the Army tried to kill you; and you think Kaepernick with the NFL guys are running around the field yanking people's chains while Trump the meathead has insisted on egging 'em on. While the middle chapters are omitted one can all the same suspect it went negative in Vietnam where by your account the opposing armies stuck you between 'em and tried hard to kill you...black guyz, white guyz, yellow guyz and civilians over there all firing and lobbing at you. 

So methinks you, Ruth and Colin might sit down someplace quiet to tea and crumpets to talk about old times and to nail down the present. The potential exists for a lot of good to come out of it. Old, young, black, white, male, female, pro football guy, a lawyer and a Vietnam War Vet Ironman that everybody on all sides over there could not stop no matter how hard all of 'em tried. 

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Putin is being entirely rational.

 

I don't fancy taking him on at chess (or Risk)

Putin never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail.

Or have shot.

Since Ukraine Putin's chessboard is on the floor and the pieces scattered. Beijing took Putin for a ride on the massive gas contract Putin was desperate to sign. With the prices Beijing imposed on Putin the little guy found it hard to sign while his hands were still in the air. The Boyz in Beijing got Putin's watch and wallet too.

U.S. forces are in SK and Japan for defensive purposes only. The forces could not sustain themselves even if the U.S. wanted to invade NK or China or Russia. 

Given missiles, naval and air fleets, Beijing knows it is being bogus to express fears of U.S. ground forces at the Yalu River should NK collapse and if U.S. forces were to rush in from SK. Putin and Russia are likewise creating bogeymen and strawmen to be concerned about U.S. ground forces getting any closer to Russia's border. 

In that region of the world it would be air-sea combat primarily rather than land combat carrying the load. The bottom line is that without an obvious massive buildup over many months U.S. forces in the region could not sustain the huge burden of offensive operations over there.

The Kim Dynasty and NK people don't like China or the Chinese. The Kim Dynasty has always been the little brother of the Russians who installed Kim I then gave Kim the green light to invade SK. Moscow lost influence to Beijing when the USSR went under.

The heat from Washington is causing Putin and Xi Jinping to angle against each other and to compete for the upper hand in sustaining NK. Russia and China have had ongoing border disputes and competition for centuries and this only adds to the tension and mutual distrust over it all. This is bad news for the bad guyz which is good. 

2 minutes ago, amvet said:

Until the footballers find a reason or cause or goal, you will have to put up plain speaking folk like me that they are just spoiled brats sulking on the sidelines.

Plain speaking is cool so I look forward to the possibility of your turning over the new leaf beginning with the post above. While I remain confident you are sincere if that is what you mean, we nonetheless will have to see the new plain and straightforward approach and techniques over the course of your third set of postings by the hundred.

Your attempts to be reductionist towards the players fails. Their cause is meritorious so all the dancing around it does not sustain itself. Trying to play on their financial good fortune is equally a fail. Players are in the NFL because of their ability, smarts, drive. Many of 'em survived their past environment to become successful adults who are mature and responsible. We over here recognize their success and we commend the players because so many of 'em remember where they came from.    

And they know where they are going. So do we over here know it and we continue to support and encourage it. The protesting NFL personnel are the role models while Trump & Co are the grifters rolling the public.

Speaking of Donald Trump, his miserable legacy of divisions can and will be healed. First however the chaos he tosses about must and will be stopped. So the future is bright because while Trump is our current president he is also our next unindicted co-conspirator.

Mods kindly delete the repeat posts that are repeated due to technical difficulties of my connection from outside of Thailand. I express my regrets over the redundancy but the matter is not withing my control nor is it in the control of ThaiVisa.com>

Thanks much in advance for your attention and cooperation in this unfortunate externally occurring activity. 

43 minutes ago, amvet said:

I gather you don't know what the footballers want either.  You talk about protest as if that is an end in itself and I guess if you want to harass the current administration it is.  However I still have a mind unclouded by media and am asking the logical question - What is it they want by the protest?  When I protested I had a clear idea of what I wanted.  I don't think you know. 

 

I have posted 20 times I have no problem with the legality of the protestors to protest.  More Americans according to the latest CNN poll don't agree with the protest than do but that is besides the point.  What do they want?  Why are they upsetting so many folks?  

Your misinterpretations and misrepresentations derive from having no code.

Kaepernick has in contrast been clear for a long time....

This is because I’m seeing things happen to people that don’t have a voice, people that don’t have a platform to talk and have their voices heard, and effect change. So I’m in the position where I can do that and I’m going to do that for people that can’t."

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/29/16380080/donald-trump-nfl-colin-kaepernick-protests-national-anthem

I protested and demonstrated with my black brothers and sisters in the 1960s and I remain among them and with them. Together we are strong always, just a like a tree planted beside the calm water. I have no design to grift, scam or to con anyone in the interests of the rightwing reactionary elements of the society.

Kaepernick and his NFL fellows acting with him -- to include compatriot civilians in the secular civil society -- are continuing a long term ongoing movement that is Constitutional and historic. We are not trying to conduct a single or sole military-style operation that has specific objectives to be completed successfully within a certain timeframe by particular units highly trained to enter and win a big battle that proves to be decisive.  Nor are we didactic or ad hoc in what we do.

We strategize over the long term rather than to grift a response statement by statement spontaneously, i.e., to heat and stir as we go along. We do it properly, legally and with conviction. Our effort is long term, consistent, true, viable because we continue to honor our core beliefs and values while others choose and prefer to shift and shuffle and dance and hustle.

43 minutes ago, amvet said:

I gather you don't know what the footballers want either.  You talk about protest as if that is an end in itself and I guess if you want to harass the current administration it is.  However I still have a mind unclouded by media and am asking the logical question - What is it they want by the protest?  When I protested I had a clear idea of what I wanted.  I don't think you know. 

 

I have posted 20 times I have no problem with the legality of the protestors to protest.  More Americans according to the latest CNN poll don't agree with the protest than do but that is besides the point.  What do they want?  Why are they upsetting so many folks?  

Your misinterpretations and misrepresentations derive from having no code.

Kaepernick has in contrast been clear for a long time....

This is because I’m seeing things happen to people that don’t have a voice, people that don’t have a platform to talk and have their voices heard, and effect change. So I’m in the position where I can do that and I’m going to do that for people that can’t."

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/29/16380080/donald-trump-nfl-colin-kaepernick-protests-national-anthem

I protested and demonstrated with my black brothers and sisters in the 1960s and I remain among them and with them. Together we are strong always, just a like a tree planted beside the calm water. I have no design to grift, scam or to con anyone in the interests of the rightwing reactionary elements of the society.

Kaepernick and his NFL fellows acting with him -- to include compatriot civilians in the secular civil society -- are continuing a long term ongoing movement that is Constitutional and historic. We are not trying to conduct a single or sole military-style operation that has specific objectives to be completed successfully within a certain timeframe by particular units highly trained to enter and win a big battle that proves to be decisive.  Nor are we didactic or ad hoc in what we do.

We strategize over the long term rather than to grift a response statement by statement spontaneously, i.e., to heat and stir as we go along. We do it properly, legally and with conviction. Our effort is long term, consistent, true, viable because we continue to honor our core beliefs and values while others choose and prefer to shift and shuffle and dance and hustle.

43 minutes ago, amvet said:

I gather you don't know what the footballers want either.  You talk about protest as if that is an end in itself and I guess if you want to harass the current administration it is.  However I still have a mind unclouded by media and am asking the logical question - What is it they want by the protest?  When I protested I had a clear idea of what I wanted.  I don't think you know. 

 

I have posted 20 times I have no problem with the legality of the protestors to protest.  More Americans according to the latest CNN poll don't agree with the protest than do but that is besides the point.  What do they want?  Why are they upsetting so many folks?  

Your misinterpretations and misrepresentations derive from having no code.

Kaepernick has in contrast been clear for a long time....

This is because I’m seeing things happen to people that don’t have a voice, people that don’t have a platform to talk and have their voices heard, and effect change. So I’m in the position where I can do that and I’m going to do that for people that can’t."

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/29/16380080/donald-trump-nfl-colin-kaepernick-protests-national-anthem

I protested and demonstrated with my black brothers and sisters in the 1960s and I remain among them and with them. Together we are strong always, just a like a tree planted beside the calm water. I have no design to grift, scam or to con anyone in the interests of the rightwing reactionary elements of the society.

Kaepernick and his NFL fellows acting with him -- to include compatriot civilians in the secular civil society -- are continuing a long term ongoing movement that is Constitutional and historic. We are not trying to conduct a single or sole military-style operation that has specific objectives to be completed successfully within a certain timeframe by particular units highly trained to enter and win a big battle that proves to be decisive.  Nor are we didactic or ad hoc in what we do.

We strategize over the long term rather than to grift a response statement by statement spontaneously, i.e., to heat and stir as we go along. We do it properly, legally and with conviction. Our effort is long term, consistent, true, viable because we continue to honor our core beliefs and values while others choose and prefer to shift and shuffle and dance and hustle.

43 minutes ago, amvet said:

I gather you don't know what the footballers want either.  You talk about protest as if that is an end in itself and I guess if you want to harass the current administration it is.  However I still have a mind unclouded by media and am asking the logical question - What is it they want by the protest?  When I protested I had a clear idea of what I wanted.  I don't think you know. 

 

I have posted 20 times I have no problem with the legality of the protestors to protest.  More Americans according to the latest CNN poll don't agree with the protest than do but that is besides the point.  What do they want?  Why are they upsetting so many folks?  

Your misinterpretations and misrepresentations derive from having no code.

Kaepernick has in contrast been clear for a long time....

This is because I’m seeing things happen to people that don’t have a voice, people that don’t have a platform to talk and have their voices heard, and effect change. So I’m in the position where I can do that and I’m going to do that for people that can’t."

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/29/16380080/donald-trump-nfl-colin-kaepernick-protests-national-anthem

I protested and demonstrated with my black brothers and sisters in the 1960s and I remain among them and with them. Together we are strong always, just a like a tree planted beside the calm water. I have no design to grift, scam or to con anyone in the interests of the rightwing reactionary elements of the society.

Kaepernick and his NFL fellows acting with him -- to include compatriot civilians in the secular civil society -- are continuing a long term ongoing movement that is Constitutional and historic. We are not trying to conduct a single or sole military-style operation that has specific objectives to be completed successfully within a certain timeframe by particular units highly trained to enter and win a big battle that proves to be decisive.  Nor are we didactic or ad hoc in what we do.

We strategize over the long term rather than to grift a response statement by statement spontaneously, i.e., to heat and stir as we go along. We do it properly, legally and with conviction. Our effort is long term, consistent, true, viable because we continue to honor our core beliefs and values while others choose and prefer to shift and shuffle and dance and hustle.

12 hours ago, amvet said:

No it's not.  If I draw a cartoon of Mohammad to teach religion to a child in the Middle East I'm still going to get beheaded.  If I violate a religious totem I'll still get killed even though my intention might have been pure.  Ignorance of the law or culture is rarely a defense.  I'm an atheist so I think anything having to do with religion is silly but having said that I can understand it would be disrespectful to use holy books as toilet tissue or stand in a church when everyone else sat. 

We are talking about the Constitution of the United States in the United States. NFL protesters are in their demonstrative actions being consisent with the Constitution. The actions are consistent with the laws. The players et al violate nothing either Constitutionally or legally.

The bent against the actors and their actions is occurring primarily on the right. It includes constant and consistant if secondary swipes at the media, i.e. Donald Trump's Enemy of the People.

The people who present themselves as offended do so because have no code. That is, the objector American Veterans we hear from most loudly are those who violate or ignore the oath they assumed, to include other Americans who have no sense of the Constitution or the laws. So predicating objections on credenda and cooking up analogies to this religion or that religion is flawed. All of it rather lunges and pitches beyond the foundational right of civil protest in the USA by civilians in a secular society, culture, government.  

Nobody in this is -- to note concoctions grifted into the discourse -- going to be beheaded and no one is wearing a veil. Nothing is burning and no one is being murdered. In contrast, the NFL demonstrators on the field are acting consistently with a body of jurisprudence in the USA that says no civilian needs to pledge allegiance, that no civilian is required to salute the flag, no civilian citizen is mandated to stand during the anthem and so on, to include the fact no civilian citizen is compelled to enter the armed forces. The central point of civilian citizen secular players raising a fist in protest is that there is nothing about it that comes remotely close to my nose. The knee on the ground poses no danger to me either.

Rightwingers who may be carrying while also grifting spontaneously might kindly take notice thx.

8 hours ago, amvet said:

Everyone got the idea about disrespect.  The President of the USA got the idea.  Ruth Bader Ginsburg Supreme court justice got the idea.  The NFL sponsors who have pulled their advertising got the idea.  Everybody gets the idea.  That's the idea.  The act is disrespectful and the intention is disrespectful and it is legal and protected by the American Bill of Rights. The disrespect is meant to point out the disrespect black lives are treated with by the police.  Everybody gets it it seems except on Thai Visa.

Being respectful of the Constitution is not being disrespectful. Being respectful of the Constitution is, well, being respectful of the Constitution. It is square on. NFL know what they are doing and they are doing it properly.

As your posts have noted however, the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars disagree. Your posts are consistent with these and other uniformed objectors who ignore or violate their oath. Youse don't care much for the media either, as you yourself consistently indicate in numerous posts and in passing. It seems now that Thai Visa too has become your new kitchen sink clanked into the heap.

Moreover, until it was pointed out Justice Ginsburg had had the good sense to apologize she wuz one of your champions. After it was revealed Justice Ginsburg had apologized however your post dismissed her as suddenly elderly and random. So I sense a lot of grifting going on here. Which would mean one needs to identify the point of diminishing return. The point has already occurred btw and it happened back there somewhere.

1 hour ago, amvet said:

I would agree that a Supreme Court Justice should keep her opinions to herself but I think her initial TV interview is typical of an elderly American who only takes a cursory interest in sports or issues of minority rights.  Her first comments were from the hip and pretty normal as I read the situation.  I'm an old majority person and a young minority person would certainly have a different opinion.  

 

 

The legacy of Goodwin, Chaney and Schwirmer lives on in black, while, brown and yellow thanks.....

Oakland High School Football Players Lie On Their Backs In Protest Of National Anthem

The impact of Colin Kaepernick’s national anthem stance has traveled throughout the sports world from fellow professional athletes to now, an Oakland high school football team.

Marshawn Lynch Thinks Only Racists Are Threatened By Kaepernick’s Protest

The San Francisco 49ers QB attended Castlemont High School’s football game against the King’s Academy Knights on Friday (Sept. 23), and while the national anthem played, he continued his protest. But the rising athletes did a gesture that’s probably more moving than Kaepernick’s bended knee.

https://www.vibe.com/2016/09/oakland-high-school-football-players-lay-backs-protest-national-anthem/

Ma and Pa Kettle are simple folk who probably don't follow football any more than the nothing Ma and Pa know about the Constitution luv 'em. Except for the 2nd Amendment, that is. The second amendment to what is the question Ma and Pa never can reply to however. For all Ma and Pa know luv 'em it is the second amendment to the fourth commandment. So the Kettles give their nod of approval to others who step forward to speak for 'em. Some of whom can come across as grifters.

30 minutes ago, amvet said:

Ma Kettle

 

"I think it's really dumb of them. Would I arrest them for doing it? No. I think it's dumb and disrespectful.

The gentlelady is a wise jurist indeed....

Ginsburg apologizes to Kaepernick for anthem protest

Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg apologized for calling San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick's protest of the national anthem "dumb and disrespectful."

In a statement released Friday, Ginsburg said she was "barely aware" of the protest by Kaepernick and other NFL players, and thus her comments were "inappropriately dismissive and harsh."  

I should have declined to respond," her statement concluded.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ginsburg-apologizes-to-kaepernick-for-anthem-protest/article/2604592

Ma Kettle luv her never apologizes. Nor does Ma Kettle luv her have a law degree. Nor does Ma Kettle have a brain luv her. I mean, lookit whoall Ma and Pa Kettle have speaking for 'em.  

3 hours ago, amvet said:

Giving the black power salute during the American National Anthem would not piss off black people.  I get that.  Do the black people get that it pisses off people who are not black? 

You are referring to the right political types typified perhaps by Ma and Pa Kettle. Ma and Pa with all due consideration may have made the difference in the election in November -- in the blue states that flipped specifically. Trump spoke to this base of social reactionaries with his base campaign. Trump continues to solicit and patronize this base base.

The base includes prominently loud military veterans such as the guy you quoted in Cleveland. The Nemeth Marine Corps veteran-cop guy. He who is in fact the derilect military veteran turned dubious rescue guy who ignores or is oblivious of his oath to the Constitution. Indeed, there is the riled up base and too many angry veterans whoall don't know the Constitution from a lawnmower purchase contract. The only difference as far as the base is concerned is that they signed the mower contract and its warranty.

It could look more than anything else these dayze that Ma and Pa hired their lawnmower salesman to grift their farm to include the pickup. Ma and Pa after all have never trusted those city slicker conflict resolution negotiator types either.

13 hours ago, amvet said:

Angered by the protest, police and other emergency service workers have turned down an offer to participate in a ceremony ahead of a game on 10 September Dan Nemeth, president of the Cleveland Association of Rescue Employees Local 1975, told Fox8Cleveland: “This hit home with me. I am a veteran, an eight-year veteran with the US Marine Corps.

“So, to disrespect the flag by taking a knee is not something I was going to be a part of.

 

I could find another ten quotes but yes the National Anthem is a cop totem as is the flag.  Are American cops trigger happy?  Well, that is what the protest is all about eh?

 

I wouldn't stay seated during the Anthem as I'm not a subscriber to the Mike Tyson/Donald Trump school of diplomacy I'm a lot smarter than that.   

Here's more of whatall the trooper and USMC veteran Nemeth rattled off...

"When I was growing up, we were taught to stand every morning, put our hands over our hearts and say the pledge of allegiance," Nemeth said. For them to disrespect the flag by taking a knee did not sit well with me.

"Military and the safety forces live and die by the flag and what it stands for, and for them [Browns management] to say how much they support the military and the men and women that fight to defend our country and the freedoms that we have, it's hypocritical [allowing players to take a knee.]"

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/09/cleveland_rescue_union_joins_p.html

Here is some of what Chief of Police Calvin Williams said on the behalf of the CPD....

The Cleveland Browns Organization has been a longtime partner of the Cleveland Division of Police, donating and assisting (many times quietly) to our Police Athletic League and hosting events with kids in the city's Muny League Football. As law enforcement officers, we took an oath to serve and to protect. We protect the rights of all citizens to express their views as protected by the First Amendment of our constitution, no matter the issue.  

http://www.cleveland19.com/story/36281485/police-chief-responds-after-cleveland-unions-refuse-to-hold-flag-at-browns-opening-game

Nemeth the Marine veteran needs to recognize the oath he took to support and defend the Constitution.

Military veterans such as Nemuth who disrespect their oath to the Constitution are not reliable or of merit in their active duty service or as veterans, and ultimately as citizens of the republic. There is in fact a longstanding argument that is both Constitutional and statutory. It is that the person who assumes a sacred oath never is released from the oath. That moreover, once a citizen swears an oath to the Constitution the oath is valid for life. Without trying to argue the points here, the belief is that the only way one who assumes an oath to the Constitution can be free of the oath is to renounce it. I don't hear Nemuth renouncing his oath-taking explicitly, but then again it could be argued he never meant or understood each oath he has sworn so help him God.