4 hours ago, smotherb said:

Loaded question, or realistic question? I am somewhat familiar with US intelligence systems; I have seen their strengths and their weaknesses. You seem to be spouting what our intelligence sources publicly say, the Norks are relying on obsolete technology and defense systems. Intelligence also states the best defense the Norks can assemble are their KN-06 missile, which are based-on the early Soviet S-300 missiles. Yet, are we sure they are not improved; and the answer is yes, they have been improved, but are they sufficiently improved to counter our missiles or aircraft?  Well, I posit that we may think not, but are we sure? Thus; are you willing to underestimate the Norks? I do not see that as a loaded question.

The post makes a broad generalized sweep of nervous nellie questions which is fine given there's usually good to be gained by asking questions and in being skeptical. You might want to answer at least a few your own questions though. That is, you'd need to get specific. Assertions of spooks and goblins hovering don't get my attention but a tank coming on would definitely get my full focus.

In contrast the main reality number one is that Kim III has focused his limited national resources on making H-Bombs and ICBMs. Kim's naval focus is on the one diesel electric powered boomer sub that can launch nuclear armed missiles.  

Kim has a gazillion guys in his army, seventy subs in his navy, lots of antiaircraft missiles in his air force. Him also has 200K special forces to attack U.S. forces at their bases in SK. Him has a swarm of artillery at the 38th parallel. However additional ghost forces and weapons systems that are invisible until activated are always hard to spot. 

We know the major military powers almost always have a super secret weapons system or more than one that they cloak to surprise the enemy if a conflict occurs. Surprise in warfare is always to be expected. So why am I not surprised. It is after all Kim who'd be in for the surprise. 

On 9/26/2017 at 11:56 PM, Kieran00001 said:

 

Yeah, they did that in the 50's, that war is not actually legally over, and any breach of the cease fire agreement would make a strike on an American aircraft flying over a neighbouring country perfectly legal, Trump really does have to be careful on this one.

Congress did not declare war in the 1950s.

Last time to date Congress declared war was in 1941, December, twice -- against Japan and then against Germany. Germany had declared war against the United States a week after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor so the United States responded appropriately.

The cease-fire aka truce means the Korean Conflict as the U.S. terms it is not over -- that it is still on but not kinetic (as the Pentagon likes to say). Which makes in turn understandable the NK foreign minister's comical statement that Trump declared war against NK. Technically the war is of course still on. So what we understand now is that the FM in Pyongyang is the Chief Jerk at Kim's Ministry of Jerks. This is true even if the guy knew better than to make the whopper of a sensational statement.

Kim stopped hollering about launching his missiles to splash into the waters near Guam because the Thaad system is in Guam and so are Patriot antimissile batteries on Guam and because they likely would be used in any such event. Legally used. 

19 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

                    Trump's is 'the decider'.  Because he's prez, every utterance of his has to be taken seriously. <<snip>>  Similarly, because he's officially 'Commander in Chief', every utterance/tweet from him, has to be taken seriously.  It's a sad state of affairs for the USA (and the world), but that's the way the pyramid of power was designed.

 

                The only way his rants and stupidity (re; N.Korea) won't be acted upon, is if one or more top brass around him refuse to follow an order.  Then, that officer would immediately be in trouble for insubordination or worse. 

 

 <<snip>>

 

You reference the central issue. That is, the matter of senior military commanders just following orders from an individual or adhering to their oath as military officers. If the matter ever comes down to being a choice between one or the other. 

We find the answer in the oath of each commissioned officer of all the armed forces. The oath is to the Constitution. Only. Exclusively. Institutionally. It is by the officer oath that we know the answer, i.e., which it is. Which rules out the "just following orders" doctrine. 

Unlike the oath taken by enlisted personnel, which includes the president, the military officer oath has no officer of the government included in it. Potus is not in the officer oath. No one is in the officer oath. Each officer of the armed forces assumes the oath to the Constitution and to the Constitution only.

The Founders provided for the military officer oath to the Constitution only. The oath of the military officer to the Constitution only was enacted by the First Session of the 1st Congress as Public Law Number 1. The Founders and the 1st Congress acted consistently with General George Washington who, on assuming command of the Continental Army in 1777, proscribed an officer oath.

The officer oath is thus an institutional oath. The officer oath is to the three branches of the government: the executive, the legislative, the judiciary. Each branch is a separate and coequal part of the government. The three branches exist in a balance of powers. The Constitution established a system of checks and balances among the three branches. So the oath is not, nor was the officer oath intended to be, to any one person or to any single office holder of the government. Not necessarily and not at all.

Thus if the general or admiral in command of the war room in the Pentagon decides in his/her judgment to consult the Secretary of Defense before executing an order from Potus, the general can do exactly that. Or contact the speaker of the House. Or the chief justice. Or another general/admiral. And so on.

After all, the title of Commander in Chief is an administrative title. It is an executive title conferred for efficiency of government in the national defense. The title does not establish a Caesar or anything like it. Indeed, the Founders conceived of the existing officer oath as a bulwark against tyranny -- the tyranny of one man. And one can safely say the Founders conceived of the military officer oath as a firewall against a Caligula should a Caligula happen along -- as he indeed has done and as he has indeed put himself upon us. 

19 hours ago, smotherb said:

Sun Tzu would have had spies to determine the actual intelligence; however, since technology today is a bit further advanced than in Sun Tzu's day; it leaves all options open, including misinformation. Are you a proponent of underestimating an enemy?

(No I have not stopped beating my wife.) 

The loaded question compels an 'of course' answer. Or it attempts to force a defensive denial. But only if the targeted person receives or accepts the question, that is. Neither am I the pupil here.

After you might think on that a bit kindly get back to me plse thx. I look forward to a serious discussion.

5 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Perhaps China could do it, US special Ops could not though, taking out the leader and his cronies does not ensure regime change, it would take a huge number of boots on the ground and for a long time to do that, the people are not just going to turn around and feel that they have been liberated the next day, they will fight for their country against the invading tyrants they have been taught are their worst enemy.

Your post is the first and only one I've seen that presumes anyone is going to "liberate" the North Korean people. So fear not as the NK people will suffer in silence any group that rules over them. It's just that Liberators by any name to include of any nationality are most unwelcome in the Hermit Kingdom North.

Don't confuse the meek Koreans of history and the always temperamental and tempestuous Chinese. It's the Chinese who storm the Forbidden City once conditions under yet another corrupt dynasty become intolerable and unbearable. The Koreans are the opposite, i.e., they are the people who down through the ages spread out to eat grass while thanking their benevolent leader for the excellent crop he grew for 'em. While the Chinese have over millennia had a couple of dozen of 1789 the Koreans haven't ever had a one of 'em.

It's the South Koreans who are in the streets regularly throwing rocks at the police riot platoons that are trying to hold 'em off. South Koreans have become the storming masses of indignant citizens that the Chinese used to be (until the 21st century). Moreover, North Koreans pass on quietly and peacefully of a young old age -- same as always. Count on the Norks to stay put for whoever rules 'em.

Btw the one salient commonality shared by the North Korean forces and the Chinese armed forces is that once their leaders are taken out the troops become chickens with their heads cut off. They're cooked. Fried in fact. The NK military have no NCO in their ranks -- y'know, sergeants and stuff. CCP Boyz in Beijing introduced NCO to the PLA in 1997 for the first time ever in China. CCP concluded they'd have a better shot at winning a war with NCO American style. The Boyz have since found out however NCO are a uniquely American thingy. 

I would be remiss if I failed to mention that you should be half as concerned about Kim having H-Bombs and ICBMs as you are mortified the North Korean people may lose their current dynasty of  corrupt dictator-tyrants. Kindly consider instead that Koreans north of the 38th parallel spent the 20th century under either the occupied rule of Japan from 1910-45 or since 1945 they have been ruled by the Stalinist Kim Dynasty. Indeed, not many people of modern times have lost an entire century to unimaginable miseries inflicted in their name by their rulers foreign or domestic. In contrast the more fortunate Koreans south of the parallel had the good fortune of being assisted by the United States. Since 1945.  

16 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

And what do you see in that that provides any justification to take enormous amounts of lives?  That is all I am saying, that we should not provoke them, we should not invade them or attempt regime change in any other way as that will lead to more suffering of a people who have suffered enough.

Only the CCP Boyz in Beijing could carry out a regime change in Pyongyang without provoking a war or causing severe or catastrophic consequences. 

Beijing would be hailed universally for it. 

CCP Boyz in Beijing would install their own people in Pyongyang to rule absolutely and without provocation of any neighbor state or any other nation. CCP Boyz ruling in Pyongyang would indeed assure the NK people they are protected under the CCP nuclear umbrella. Pyongyang's nuclear program and arsenal would get shipped across the border to the CCP-PRC.

CCP Boyz have not attempted this for several reasons. One reason is that Kim III put his pro-Beijing uncle out front of an antiaircraft gun and told him to dance. Fact is Kim III is the most protected tyrant dictator since Stalin. Another is that Kim didn't have an H-Bomb nor did he demonstrate he had a viable ICBM ready to go. Yet another is that CCP knows it does not have the special operations capability to execute a decapitation of the Kim Dynasty and its Loyal Lieges. 

The U.S. and SK could do it in a joint special op however. CCP Boyz would do little more than denounce it then privately toast the occasion. Xi Jinping would be beside himself but he would sit alone crying into his imported beer.  Oh and yeah, Xi would have one guy from here sitting beside him holding his hand.

58 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You fantasised almost everything you wrote.  My fear of attempting regime change in NK is that the people will suffer more and that there will be great loss of life inside and out of NK, in attempting something such as this we must weigh up the ends against the means, and it is my fear that the benefit of the end will not outweigh the loss of the means.  That was one point I was making.

 

The other was just a reply in response to a comment that NK is solely to blame for their situation, I do not feel it is, I feel that without the US pressure that they would have spent less on arms, that their people would have suffered less and that we would not be seeing this nuclear program happening today.  

 

How these two points equate to what you seem to think they do is beyond me, as I said, you are fantasising.  I am appalled by their regime, I fear for their neighbors today and am also appalled at what the South suffered in the past, but that does not equate to the right to take huge amounts of lives in the North, in my opinion.  It would be another situation like Iraq, a vicious dictator who the Iraqis deserved better than, who was responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of, but in removing him it took the lives of over 1 million and the destruction of their country, the end result of removing Saddam was far outweighed by the means it took to achieve it and we should learn from this mistake.

A thousand and one reasons to preserve and protect a one party state and to lionize each one party state is a fail. Getting hysterical about it goes nowhere fast besides.

Kim and Xi want the USA out of South Korea and out of Japan and they see the nuclear program in Pyongyang as their ticket to each event. The U.S. being evicted from northeast Asia does not need to occur today or tomorrow as far as Pyongyang and Beijing are concerned. The design eventuating over a bit more time would be just fine in Pyongyang and in Beijing -- each acting separately but with the same purpose and goal. 

Xi sees this pursuit as realistic and attainable. The CCP Boyz in Beijing under him disagree. CCP Boyz at the top but under Xi fear the pursuit will eventuate in a military conflict at some level involving NK, SK, Japan, USA. The Boyz under Xi are right. They are dead on.

Youse over there need to know that no Potus would cave in to withdraw from northeast Asia forces, presence, influence or affects. Potus Obama made clear the U.S. would fight and Obama was the first Potus to actually face the prospect of a conflict in realistic terms. OB devised the supposed doctrine of "strategic patience" to in fact leave the problem to a ready and willing Hillary Clinton,. However,  we got and have Donald Trump instead. (Putin himself is lamenting the Frankenstein he facilitated in Washington.)  

Beijing's central strategy to assume dominance over East Asia and the South China Sea is to separate U.S. allies in the region from the USA. Isolate each of 'em then pick 'em off one by one. Beijing has been unsuccessful in this scheme however (CCP Boyz have always expected the already faded Duterte to fizzle if not flop outright). So Xi has grabbed onto the current chaos. Xi has for instance proposed the U.S. stop its military readiness exercises with SK and Japan and Kim stop exploding H-bombs and launching missiles. Kim and SecDef Mattis have each rejected this design. However, we see where Xi is headed, i.e., reduce the U.S. level of activity in the region. 

Since the Maoist Xi assumed full power in 2013 Washington has increasingly made two things clear: One, the U.S. will not leave the region quietly and, Two, the United States isn't going anywhere period. When Xi says no one will win a war in NE Asia the CCP Boyz under him fully well know war itself is a huge loser among the Chinese people. War would in fact be catastrophic to CCP rule over its PRC. The Boyz know they are witnessing the fact Xi is the wrong guy in Beijing to try to deal with Potus Trump. Same same concerning Kim III.

The longtime China expert Perry Link at UC has said, far too politely, that Xi Jinping "is a man of modest intellectual gifts." Fact is Xi Jinping is a numbnuts from the word go.

5 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Not sure what you mean by the wave of the future never got an ounce over sea level.  The Soviet Union ultimately failed, as did most everywhere in that global financial crisis, but the successes were clear, they were streets ahead of the Western Capitalist nations at one point, they achieved 100% literacy before any other, something the US has yet to do and instead has changed the goal posts to allow an elementary level to count for their stats, they had a truly universal health care system and an advanced one, the first in the world to offer organ transplants and the first in the world to offer a painless childbirth, the US is only just trialing the concept of a universal health care system 60 years later, they doubled their life expectancy and reduced infant mortality by 90%.  And just face it, without feeling the need to compete with the Soviets there would have been no free higher education, free healthcare, paid holidays, full pensions or maternity leave, all arrived in the West as promises to offer competitive standards of life to the Soviets.

 

As for the nuclear issue, that is just ridiculous, without the US bombings there would have been no issue.

Let's step back for a moment to take a quick look at the record of your posts to the thread. Posts are after all fair game ne c'est pas.

The one party state is what you are running up the flag about. You tout any accomplishment of the one party state -- and you have a long list of 'em. Your posts present the one party state as making progress while the posts present the USA and its people as little more than cavemen who think we have a democracy going.

The posts see the multiparty states as menacing and corrupting the single party states and their economies. You do in fact see the multiparty states as negative influences against the single party states by our very existence as diverse political systems of democratic government, society, culture, civilization.  

Your posts focus on a great emotional connection to the people of North Korea which in itself is commendable. It is what your posts do not say that is revealing and that is in fact the self-expose'. That is, your posts say nothing about the people of South Korea or of Japan or of Guam or Hawaii, or of the continental USA. Your posts ignore that the Stalinist North invaded the South to unify the peninsula under single party rule. You ignore that this remains the ultimate objective goal of the Kim Dynasty and its lieges in Pyongyang. Indeed, your every post advocates leaving the caveman elites in Pyongyang in charge of the people they abuse grotesquely and regard as their servant slaves. It is bizarre all the more that you cite their welfare and their supposed well being in advocating the continuation of the Kim Dynasty.

It is awful and grotesque to attempt to shield tyrants and their tyranny while accusing the United States of being the major factor in enabling tyranny in North Korea. Moreover, now that the tyranny in Pyongyang has gone seriously nuclear it is a gross error to try to focus the blame for it on the United States. 

On 9/26/2017 at 1:40 PM, Kieran00001 said:

 

Youre really not doing very well, I did not say their crime IS choosing communism, I said their only crime WAS choosing communism, and then the sanctions came that led them to chose spending beyond their ability on arms which left the country in ruins, plenty of atrocities have followed but their crime that got them sanctioned in the first place was just being communist, the same as Cuba.

 

And Cuba is socialist but not communist, you are confusing politics and economics.

There is no confusion on this side of the argument while there is a considerable confusion over there where you are. Let's take a quick look at the what and the why.

Cuba is a single party state and so is NK. So is the CCP-PRC a one party state and China has been, in a sense, a single party state for every moment of its existence over thousands of years. Chinese are certain in the absolute the one party state is the truth and the light. Likewise for NK, which has always been a one party state to include its time of the three kingdoms.

Cuba is in the New World as it were so to Cubans the one party state is less rooted in its experience. The factor is a vital qualifier that could make a transition to a multiparty system in Cuba less of a challenge to facilitate than it would be in China or in NK. The common thread of authoritarian governments is the single party state. The particular system of the economics is a matter of some divergence but it is not necessarily material, i.e., the U.S. is not pleased by an extra constitutional force seizing governing power. A swift seizure is almost always done by the institution on the right. 

It is true that the person who sees the world through the single prism of anti-Americanism runs the risk to himself of being susceptible to support the single party state were he given the decisive choice between the two. Further, Russian "democracy" is the falsehood, not American democracy. I myself always think of the Mother Russia party as being Russia the Mother whatever.

Your carryings on about communism is the case of watching the shadows on the wall of the cave. That is, you'd need to instead get closer to the fire because the fire illuminates the single party state you'd been either ignoring or overlooking as the source of our objections. It is the fire that singes not the shadows.

5 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Are  you a  Poet ?

Not an Upper Case one, No.

Lower case is definitely up there above my reach too.

Methinks I should say thanks anyway but something inside of me tells me to hold off on it.   

Indefinitely.

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I was at least attempting to stay on topic, which was NK and the reasons for this current issue, which I blame in part on US anti communism which I believe has always been fuelled by the American elite, that is why I keep speaking about America and their elite as that was what I was talking about, it was you who wanted to go off on a tangent based loosely on my topic, but if you really need to compare your country to China then carry on, obviously there is no first world country that is comparable.  I am not an advocate of communism, we are yet to see a regime that truly is anyway and all that we have seen so far have been corrupt self serving regimes in the name of communism so your comments really are moot regarding China's wealth disparity.  My point was really just to make clear that there is a lot of bad in attempting to starve regimes into submission, history has shown us just what it means for the subjects, nothing good, the North Koreans have been punished enough, I would really hate to see them have to now go to war as well.

I am pleased to advise you I am hoping to forward your post to Kim Jong Un.

As to the one matter on your plate that I can speak to, which is American opposition to communism since 1849, I blame communism on communists. Just about everyone else does too btw. Fact is the Wave of the Future never got a fluid ounce above sea level.

The USA success in terminating the Cold War was realized against many challenges. The best managed challenge was the the nuclear one. It was managed successfully in the only it way possible, i.e., jointly by the elites of USA and the then USSR. We saw the notion again in the P5+1 successful negotiations with the ayatollahs in Iran. The Six-Party "talks" about NK nuclear weapons and missiles failed (years ago) for two reasons primarily: Communism in NK and North Koreans being in charge of North Korea.

Post Cold War the U.S. has brought home deployed nuclear weapons while proliferating none (Cold War Israel is debatable). Post Cold War the Russian KGB and GRU offspring of USSR and who currently thrive in the Kremlin have built in India, Pakistan, Iraq and Iran. China acquired a nuclear arsenal and has contributed in Pakistan and in North Korea. While Trump himself talks a big game everyone knows he's a tosser. (U.S. military commanders would never execute an order from Trump to initiate a first use against NK.)

Since 1849 and in fact well before then, the peoples of the democratic societies have prospered and we have won the big wars. The prosperity has manifested whether the governments have been Great Depression capitalist, FDR reformist, European Christian democratic or social democratic. A number of countries of Europe have thrived despite numerous instances and time periods when communists have participated in their governments, to include Nato member states.

NK was created by Stalin period. In the closing dayze of WW II his troops swarmed down the Korean peninsula which had been occupied by Japan since 1910. Had the U.S. not urgently placed a thin line of speedbump troops in the area of the 38th parallel we would indeed have a Kim Dynasty nuclearizing a peninsula long since ruled over by the Kims in its entirety. And nuclearized long ago no doubt. Y'know, the Wave of the Future.

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

But it was not said out of context place or time, the context being the US fight against socialism, worldwide, for the past 60 odd years, the elite I referred to that they are protecting are their own elite.

Elites are not thriving everywhere, Scandinavian social democracy has done a very good job of levelling things there, no one is Europe is blinkered into thinking that there is nothing that can be done about the issue, most countries have had revolutions that removed the elite and levelled the ground not so long ago, doing nothing and allowing the greedy elite to impoverish half the nation is just part of the American dream, not anyone else's.

The Eurocentric and Western perspective might be superfluous to a thread focused on northeast Asia and the caveman elites of NK in particular. (Post  WW III Cavemen of course.)

My own post btw never said all elites everywhere are currently thriving. I plainly said elites continue to exist and to thrive. So while numerous European elites can find themselves longing for the good ole dayze, the former LOS Thailand is certainly a prime instance of one certain elite among others that remains deeply rooted in the past and where the old time elite seeks to steal one more century from history. 

One takes note more so however of the blurred focus against the United States and its elites that is specific to your each post to this thread. So I'd note for your attention that wealth distribution in the USA is being rehabilitated significantly by Obamacare. Indeed, Republicans on either end of Pennsylvania Avenue are only banging their heads against Trump's Wall of Incompetence as they fail repeatedly in attempting to do what used to be routine for 'em when they came to Washington, i.e., passing 19th century tax laws to further ensconce the rich while wrecking socioeconomic programs. The reports are in fact cheering given the Republicans standard one-two easy punch has gone tappy on 'em.

The cavernous wealth gap in the CCP-PRC meanwhile continues to move several meters per year, if not kilometers. The calculations of CCP corruption document to us that $5 Trillion has been swindled into the pockets of the Chinese elites since year 2000. Kim and Co. can only dream.

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

If protecting the finances of the elite is a "good" reason then sure, if the reason is someones notion of freedom then that is debatable.

Framing it in class terms seems to make it neat, i.e. the one percent for instance, which can be one way to do it. One could frame the elites by a primarily horizontal scheme or one could frame elites vertically. Or one could frame the elites by form of government for instance (and throw in efficacy). No matter how one likes to frame the elites however, elites have existed since time immemorial and elites will continue to exist and to thrive. So one might choose his poison to include condemning 'em all. Nihilists can be amused to play fun and games -- at least until the fun slams up against specifics. Bringing on specifics does consistently mark the point at which the dancing music stops however.

Chinese elites do for instance consider themselves as the elite of all elites -- of all places and times. And they are certain the NK elites are pretenders who need to be put back into their proper place. And that they the Chinese elites are the extension of the eternal elite while the USA elites are a rabble and a flash in the pan. Thus, referring simply to "the elite" can be meaningless out of context, place, time, circumstance. Unless of course all that matters is the fun and games of telling people they are suckers and pedestrian saps.

36 minutes ago, smotherb said:

So, you are saying our intelligence was faulty in Vietnam and Iraq, but cannot be now?

40 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Not wise to underestimate an enemy. Our intelligence can be and has been misinformed; remember WMDs in Iraq?    <<snip>>

South Korean intelligence on North Korea is eminently reliable and definitive. While differences in language dialect and cultural barriers preclude agents infiltrating NK, the South's intelligence agents spend a lot of time going in and out of NK to personally scope things. SK technological intelligence is all over 'em besides.

With the Thaad radars in SK now both Pyongyang and Beijing are mortified and for every reason that each fears and knows. The sophisticated and powerful radars can compare the temperature of the morning tea of each Xi and Kim. Word is Kim likes his tea nuclear hot. Xi knows the Thaad radars are reading his entire nuclear capabilities to include his missiles.

Sun Tzu would be headed for the hills by now.

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I did not appreciate what they were doing, but then they did not impose sanctions on every capitalist country, no, actually they tried to work with capitalist neighbors, it was the US who did their best to prevent anyone working with any communists, quite different indeed.

And for good reason besides.

29 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Exactly, and my earlier point was that without US meddling North Korea most likely would have reached the same conclusion by now, as it stands they have no idea whether their ideology could result in a successful economy as they keep feeling that they need to put everything into arms just to maintain their existence.

NK started out as the Frankenstein of Stalin and got some ancillary support from Mao to include vital reinforcement after NK invaded SK in 1950  but only when allied forces began to approach the Yalu border with the CCP-PRC. Since the truce in 1953 NK has never been at peace with SK which has remained open to peace and unification. The Kim Dynasty has had its own idea of unification under the Kims of course which was the whole idea of the NK 1950 invasion of the South. Each Pyonyang and Beijing teach their populations the South invaded the North to begin with, that our reward was to get the hell beaten out of us but that we remain eager to get whupped again.

The Kim Dynasty has never liked China or the Chinese which is a major reason the Dynasty rejected the Deng Xiaoping economic reforms Beijing advocated to it for 20 years without success. NK has instead always had its Juche philosophy of  self reliance ha ha and the Norks take a great pride ha ha in being a self reliant people ho ho and and independent sovereign nation state har har ho ho.

As to the CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing, they are but another Chinese Dynasty of latter day emperors who prefer business suits and whose socialism with Chinese characteristics mark it as yet another dynasty destined to fail as every dynasty before it has failed no matter.  We are dealing with authoritarians here who have it in their thousands year old bones to rule absolutely. And to extend their absolute rule geographically, i.e., into your living room.

16 hours ago, over it said:

What's your point?

Given the Reuters OP can't respond to your question kindly allow this poster to give it a good go.

The OP points out to those who'd been unaware that NK radars are largely deficient. Pongyang had no reaction to the B1-B and fighters intrusively near its coast and in international waters which indicates its radars missed it. NK is also unable to sustain its military radars 24/7 on end due to energy deficiencies -- civilian radars at airports do in fact get priority hour to hour and daily.

It is also the case that the B1-B is a standoff bomber. It can position itself out of range of NK antiaircraft missiles and fighters to fire off missiles into NK (or anywhere).

The bottom line in this high visibility exercise by the U.S. is that NK did nothing to indicate an awareness of its presence so near to NK to the east. The exercise demonstrates that NK defenses against air and sea operations are entirely deficient. If the U.S. were to launch an air-sea attack NK defenses to its east would be catastrophically deficient. Now the world knows definitively what the Boyz in Pongyang have already known for a very long time. That is, the NK coastline is a shooting gallery that is wide open to a massive penetration inland by attacking forces.

1 hour ago, Dumbastheycome said:

It  would  seem  reasonably  obvious  that since  China  has  apparently stated  that  an attack on  NK  would  require intervention  on  NK  behalf yet  an attack  by  NK  on others  would  require  it's assistance  in  defence  against  NK that  China  is/has  attempted  to  set a  blockade  against  initial attack  by  either  side. A  very  reasoned  strategy in the  circumstance  because   proximity  and  significant  military  capacity are very  relevant  factors.

The  weakness  of  that strategy  is  that  blatant incitement  to  make the first move by  NK is  obvious .

The  significance  of the  accusation  of  a  "Declaration  of  War " is  that it is  exclusive  to  the  USA with regard  to  NK because the  status  of  the  war  between  NK  and  SK remains  in a  state  of  impass /truce.

So  does   NK consider  this  a new  war  or  a breaking  of  the truce?

It  does  become  confusing  when it is  considered   that  NK  has a  seat  in the  UN  which  also   has  imposed  sanctions  and  approval for  measures  of  containment containment on  both  occasions!

Too  often  I am  led  to  think  that  international  political  headlines   should  be  preceded with  the  same  advisory  that  movies  of  fiction  Based  on  Reality   should  be  included. The   Iraq  war and  the preamble  to  that  as  an example.

The   most  dangerous  aspect  is  that if  someone stutters  badly  when  reading their part  of the  script  is  that  the  result  could  be  a disaster  rather  than a necessity  for the  impossible  retake! 

 

The Maoist Xi Jinping is only recently catching up with the fact he's the last guy standing in Beijing who does care what happens to the Kim Dynasty and its lieges in Pyongyang. The statements you quote about Beijing defending NK are from the Party media and not from Xi himself. Unless and until Xi says something about military action there isn't any official position by Beijing in this chaos. Washington knows this of course. So does South Korea and Japan etc.

All accounts and intelligence say Xi is the holdout on cutting off the crude oil exports to NK. Xi is in fact doing much of what Trump is doing in threatening war and talking war. Xi is however doing it in the Chinese way, i.e., rather than Xi standing up and declaring, he is using the Party media. The particular Party media for Xi is the PLA controlled Global Times which is making the statements of a supposed war doctrine. PLA is of course always happy to talk war but PLA knows it is an arm of the Party and that it needs to toe the Party line. And the Party line on Kim and NK has shifted to negative under the feet of the reluctant Xi. PLA and Air Force have in fact begun antimissile drills on their shores of the Yellow Sea given Kim can fire off missiles toward Japan or toward China depending on his mood on a given day. PLA has done live fire shooting down of its own missile targets to make the preventive point to Kim.

Kim and Xi hate each other's guts. The two have never met and it's very hard to imagine 'em ever meeting for any reason. Further, the Chinese people disrespect immensely the Kim Dynasty for long ago rejecting completely the economic reforms of Deng Xiaoping. Chinese people see prosperous SK and a successful democracy allied to the U.S. while knowing NK is a disaster that hides behind China and sucks on China's huge teat in every respect.

The Party underneath Xi no longer views NK as a buffer state either given modern missiles and their technologies that reach thousands of miles over NK -- nobody is going to invade China by land besides. Xi is stuck now between the Party that has shifted under him to get tougher with NK and Trump twisting Xi's arm to put the serious squeeze on Kim & Co. We'll see what Xi looks like and says in November which will be after the October Party Congress that chooses the leaders for the next five years and at which Xi needs to get his guyz into the five seats being vacated on the 7 member Politboro. Only Xi and the English fluent Prime Minister and peacenik Li Kejiang are expected to continue as holdover members. If the five new members happen to be among the Party's increased number of NK hawks then Xi is going to be isolated in coddling Kim. 

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

 

And I say again, simply substituting white males as the new dienfranchised class in America is no better than the injustices committed before the age of this recent enlightenment of genuine equality.

 

Do let me know when you are ready to join us in a truly egalitarian future.

 

Makin' America Great Again !

Never forget the spouse your ideal white male is married to back in the old homestead. Or certainly a good number of 'em. Watching Faux 16 hours a day.

All citizens have the rights enumerated by the Constitution, so Ma and Pa Kettle have the right to vote, the right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. And we see how engaged and happy they are.

The kid lived five years in NYC which is too big but it is indeed vibrant, as is a much smaller but stimulating place, Boston. Atlanta too. 

Instead the reactionaries are busy now makin' Amerika white again but they figure for the 21st century. Perhaps the Right Sector need to sober up politically speaking because youse guyz are completely in charge. There's only one gang in Washington to praise or condemn. Your guys had better get all of it right because they can't afford anything less politically.

Early signs have the Right Sector excited which is expected and predictable. The first six months or so will be your new dawning in America. Be concerned however that the day is likely to follow soon afterward that the dawn will be absent the sun. Darkness at noon and indeed 24/7.

Trump and Family Inc. are focusing on regulating and eliminating laws on businesses and corporations he and his class own while his cabinet and subordinates pursue their own political agendas and personal interests. The Trump administration could make the hugely and endemically corrupt U.S. Grant administration look like a model of civic virtue. Cause there's nobody in Washington who has any power to check 'em.

Grant Administration Scandals

The frequency of these events led to the use of the term “Grantism," a word synonymous with greed and corruption. Many people at the time speculated that money from these ventures was being funneled into Republican Party coffers.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h234.html

Republicans and money. Flies to shit.

More like no standard.

9 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

You are correct about it mostly being the Republicans call now, but the accusations of racism by Trump are the same nonsense that they have always been - dishonest campaign rhetoric. 

We have Trump's own words, gestures, actions from the campaign and from long before it. Trump attacked a person with disabilities because the man is a journalist. Who's next....

Jonathan Chait: “Donald Trump’s presidential campaign bludgeoned modern norms about the acceptability of racism. The candidate proposed a religious test for immigrants, and called a federal judge unfit on the grounds of his heritage. Trump could have decided to put the racial demagoguery of the campaign behind him, and it could have been remembered as a divisive ploy to win that did not define his administration, like George Bush’s manipulation of white racial panic to defeat Michael Dukakis in 1988. But Trump, perhaps predictably, is making a different choice. His early staffing choices are redefining the boundaries of acceptable racial discourse in Republican politics.”

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Trumps election was not about religion, until this election campaign no one knew anything about Trumps religion and I believe it was just a "dog whistle" to get some of the religious votes. Heck until a few year ago the Orange Menace was a self proclaimed Democrat. I do not think that the gay population of the USA will have any issues with a President Trump and will likely be pleasantly surprised. I totally agree with your final sentence, but not much else. How about waiting until he starts enacting legislation and appoints a cabinet till you condemn him as a religious zealot (with zero evidence) and a racist (again with zero evidence).

 

If you look back at my post again you'd find I never said Trump himself is particularly religious, much less a zealot about it.

Zealots are among the people who voted for him and worse those who will populate his administration, such as Jefferson Davis, er, Sessions to name but one. 

The long term historically oppressed and repressed that I have identified, to include those who have been victims of state power at its most extreme have much to fear from the Republican Party in the absolute control of the executive branch, the legislative branch, the judicary. 

Trump for instance is horrendous enough with his wall and the mass deportation state police, the Muslim registry and ban, and all the rest of his loony bin schemes. But anyone who might think Jewish people, women, gay civil unions, black civil rights and much else are safe and secure with the Republican Party of 2016 in absolute power in Washington would be flat out nuts.

In USA external relations, Trump and his General Flynn are going to make war on terrorism in the context of Islam itself, per se. As if eradicating or smashing terrorism is predicated in an open and direct hostility towards Islam itself, and almost all Muslims everywhere, to include in the USA.

Some Trump guy was on Faux the other day talking about the WW2 Japanese internment camps as a precedent. Youse guyz are invited to elaborate on the reference, in respect of Muslims and concerning immigrants...then there are the rest of us, because inquiring minds want to know how the Trump dominoes fall once he taps the first ones.   

58 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Sorry but simply replacing the previously marginalized groups with white males is no better than the earlier behaviors you have become such a spokesman for. Let me know when Liberals actually support equality for ALL.

 

My apology, I mean spokesperson for. Or do you prefer to be called "spokesX"?

 

 

I'd thought from your post just above that you preferred respondents who make a genuine defense. However, I was cheerfully disabused of the notion by reply of the poster you'd posted to who prefers a rational defense. 

I see your last couple of posts are neither anyway so let's skip it.

Trying to present me as a "spokesperson" of anything is a solid laffer over here, so thanks Clutch for the chuckle even if it is at your expense. You folk over there continue to flatter me to no end so I'm just going to have to ignore it.

You all are still missing the historical theme and -- here it comes -- context. The laws and the court rulings of the past half century in particular derive from the long term historically documented reality the targets of ruling elites everywhere have been Jewish, Gay, Black, Female. And the poor.

In Western civilisation white folk to include male Christians have had the superiority of numbers. In the USA it's always been the WASP population. They're losing it in an inevitable stream. There is always a reaction against such a fundamental change, so this too shall pass. 

Let's just hope that in the meantime Trump doesn't press any red buttons. If he does start pressing away at any point for any reason there certainly won't be a meantime. 

Violent people always attach themselves to political demonstrations.

The protesting demonstrators are exercising their Constitutional rights. No one has any reason under the sun to deny the demonstrators the right all of us have in USA. 

The people who'd been saying Potus Obama was going to declare martial law to keep the Democratic Party in power by either he or HRC are the usual suspects in whinging about demonstrators.

You still don't get it that Donald Trump is the most unpopular Potus-Elect in the country's history. Hollering against the protesting demonstrators is testimony the Right Sector has zero comprehension why Trump is the most unpopular Potus-Elect in the history of the office.

The most unpopular.

Ever. 

We're talking about people who have historically been discriminated against and over a long term. This means primarily but certainly not exclusively Jewish, Black, Gay.

The trend line had begun to be reversed -- there's that word again -- during recent decades or recent years in the United States.

Now the government of the U.S. is reverting to its old habits. It is going into reverse.

Make America white again -- and predominantly Christian Protestant, and absolutely straight again. The Southern Baptists are upon us led by a Trump. They're entitled to their religion, but not entitled to their prejudiced racism and discrimination.