travelguy

So, clearly, both the PAD and the UDD have threatened to burn buildings. And both of them were armed and shot people.

If your point is that both groups were wrong, you are correct.

Yep. And I'm also correct in that Abhisit needs to do something about the apparent double standards in Thai society, otherwise he will just deepen and worsen the divide. There needs to be something done fast about the problems in Thailand, or we'll see much worse in the future, I'm afraid.

Well how about Abhisit goes on TV tomorrow and announces that all the Red and PAD leaders are going to have their trials start in 30 days. The legal system needs to get its ass in gear to prepare evidence and charges against the reds, but where there is a will there is a way. 30 days should be enough. In addition, he is putting 40 names of judges into a hat the day before and they will be randomly drawn the day the trial starts.

The names of the sitting judges will not be made public, TV will be allowed in the court room, but the names and faces of the judges will not be made public.

He insists that all of the defendents cancel all public engagements for 30 days after the court date as this should be sufficient to render a judgement. No stays, no extensions, lets get on with sorting this mess out. Even handed, random and fair. If 40 judges isn't a random enough sample, make it 50 or 60.

It would be a start wouldn't it.

ALL RED leaders and all YELLOW leaders to stand trial in 30 days.

Now that would be the right move.

But it will never happen because some of them are in government now.

These weapons were actually found earlier, when the army went around from building to building and searched them through with dogs.

Some of the found stuff was from Amarin and Maneeya building carparks. Some of it was from the pond in front of the Wat Pathumwan Naram temple. The rest was from Lumpini park, which seemed to be their weapons depot.

Not to forget the pickup, parked for too long time in front of 7-eleven in Pratunam, suspicious enough that someone checked it and found C4 explosive, wired and armed.

Suspicious? Maybe to some. But living here sure happy that the things were found before they went off.

Now of course, with the reds (now calling themselves Alliance for Democracy) planning more protests in Bangkok in June, I think we can be sure much more of this stuff will be brought in, and probably used.

To think that could all be avoided by calling an election.

Would that solve the problems? Of course not. It would only be a temporary gap before the minority nullified the results. But at least it would buy some time.

The sad part is this all could have been easily avoided at the outset by simply calling some early elections.

These are the same people who agreed to a peace deal and then started adding absurd conditions to go through with it. There is no guarantee that they would have kept their word if elections were called either.

No-one ever managed to explain to me why an election now would solve all problems. Do you already know which constitution to base elections on ? Do you know who is allowed to stand and who not? Do you have a workaable plan to ensure candidate's safety when they travel around to promote themselves? Do you have a plan to observe election day and results and what mandate to give observers? Do you already now how to nullify illegal result and the definition ofillegal results? Do I need to continue?

Discussion the framework offered by the PM, disccussing details, making changes, etc. seems a better start. But then that might be too logical :-)

CONFUSED...the old constitution seemed to work fine for the majority vote. Since it was fine tuned after the coup, I never once heard anybody say they wouldn't go to the polls under the new constitution. Was it well accepted? Maybe not. But did anybody say they wouldn't go to the polls with the new constitution? NO. But it's a nice red herring when you've got nothing else to go on.

The sad part is this all could have been easily avoided at the outset by simply calling some early elections.

These are the same people who agreed to a peace deal and then started adding absurd conditions to go through with it. There is no guarantee that they would have kept their word if elections were called either.

And there is no guarantee the minority of the electorate will accept a majority verdict, but you still go through the process and hope for the best.

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Not used - the terrorists fired over 100 grenades the past 2 months. perhaps you have not been paying attention...

Not exactly a lot of dead soldiers are there ??

Either the reds were lousy marksmen or most of them were not using firearms.

Which is it ??

April 10, approx 200 army injured, 600 civilians.

Who is doing most of the shooting ??

Presumably next will be the announcement of the red's intention to use portaloos as chemical weapons..................

ph

Funny how we've gone from a reconciliation effort to a loaded propaganda campaign in about 48 hours.

The sad part is this all could have been easily avoided at the outset by simply calling some early elections. Considering the will of the majority in the last 3 elections is not reflected by the current standing government, would that not have been a cheaper price to pay than what the country is paying now? The Democrats are in the middle of a scandal themselves. (258 M baht worth- curious to know who the majority shareholder in that company who made the illegal donation is : ), like they say, follow the money)

But the results of an election (vote buying or no vote buying) WILL reflect the will of the majority.

That's obviously not the result a very powerful minority is looking for.

The simpleton will keep pointing the finger at Thaksin. Blah, blah blah...This is so far beyond Thaksin it's funny. He's a red herring now. But why?

A huge percentage of the population has been politicized in the last 5-10 years. They never use to vote. Now they vote. They aren't going to stop voting. Pay or no pay. It's like a baby who has learned to walk. You can't stop them now.

But they will vote in their self interest. Like any normal, healthy person would.

So the question is: would you vote for a person or party who never did anything for you for 30 years?

The Yellow Shirts shut down both airports and government buildings.

They have cost Thai's in the tourist industry BILLIONS of baht.

Who has been charged, who has been convicted? WHAT? Nobody?

Now that's a democracy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Focus on the red shirts who have done nothing except challenge the status quo.

It's got nothing to do with Thaksin people, wake up!

A paradigm shift is taking place...

The military and the (?) is history in the making....

The truth is always scary...

A few thoughts:

1. It's a NON-ELECTED government.

2. The high road would be to call an election. Which they know they will lose. (because the majority of the population will not support them). Where I come from it's called democracy.

3. The majority of the populace (outside of Bangkok) received a taste of the national tax base for the FIRST TIME in decades (under Thaksin) and whether they are paid to vote or not they will support those (like they have done 3 times) who have seen fit to redistribute the tax base from centralist Bangkok to the rest of the country.

4. While the fear mongers (The Nation/Thai Visa/George keep pushing the Thaksin Evil Empire agenda it's got nothing to do with Thaksin. It's way beyond that, it's a paradigm shift that is not turning back.

People who have had no representation under the Democrats (ever) found somebody who (for what ever reason you need to think ) decided to change the game. The balance of power shifted from Bangkok to the rest of the country.

The question is: Will the next democratic election results be respected by everybody or will the wealthy minority in Bangkok (and?) with the assistance of the military once again torpedo the wishes of the electorate.

My hope is we can only look beyond the Thaksin hysteria cultivated by those with a self interest and hope for a true democratic solution which will be allowed to play out by the military and the (?).

To cover your points in the order they were given...

1) B.S. and you know it (if you don't then you spent far too many days in a red shirt indoctrination camp

2) In the last elections the raw vote went to the Dems by a few 1000, who knows what today would bring but it certainly wouldn't be a PTP majority. That is all beside the point because elections are not due for another year+. Where I come from it isn't called democracy when there is massive electoral fraud. Convicted felons aren't hailed as Democratic. Guys who state Democracy isn't the goal aren't thought of as democratic. People that are involved in the extra-judicial slayings of people that were never found guilty are not called democratic etc etc.

3)The people outside of BKK are currently being treated better than they ever were by Thaksin and with programs that won't cost them their farms when they cannot pay back what was loaned to them. Thaksin created a dependancy model exactly the same as the patron-client model that has existed here for ever.

4) If it has nothing to do with Thaksin (outright lie on your part) then Why is that convicted felon doing call-ins to the rally? Thanking people for their support? Oh... yeah ... because it is ALL about Thaksin.

Democracy is not that great .. but it tends to beat any other system of government hands down.

The issue here is .... WHY would anyone screaming "Democracy" be a follower of Thaksin? (Oh yeah .. there aren't ANY followers of Thaksin that are honestly pro democracy)

PS--- to write off electoral fraud as the will of the masses is honestly just about as undemocratic as you can get. To deny this is about Thaksin just shows that you are either deaf dumb and blind, or simply a liar.

A rather simplistic rebuttal focused yet again on Thaksin and not the will of the electorate.

If you have any knowledge/practical experience of politics from your home country (which you obviously don't) you would have some understanding of the politics in play. You keep referring to Thaksin. He's not the end game. Until you get that, you're a juvenile politically.

Look up paradigm and you'll understand.

Think 40 Million against maybe 15 Million and you'll get the gist of what is happening.

It has nothing to do with Thaksin, in a couple years you will realize that was a fog before the clear.

Stopped by the Cafe Tropico the other day and had the chicken burger and fries. Delicious. Really hit the spot.

The coffee...apparently I use the same beans they buy (the good ones) but the cup the gal (Jay) made was better than mine : (

I took a snap of the burger and fries www.everythingcraig.com and then before I left the husband John drove up and I got a picture of them in the shop.

Good food, cheap prices, friendly people.

I'll be back.

Suspect many ardent Thaksin supporters here 'simply' wish their unrealistic Walter Mitty-esque lifestyles could somehow be rejuvenated if only Mr Thaksin could 'bring back the good times' (nothing to do with 'democracy';). Nevermind the world has completely changed since and as always, wherever YOU go (warts n all) there YE be.... (Phils, Nam, Cambo etc, etc, or even blighty = same-same, as time and self grinds for some, as always sadly, wherever they go)

Therefore, sorry Thaksin FEARang supporters, but the pound won't rebound to 75 (etc), the Leo won't get colder and the girls won't get warmer= 'POOF' and welcome to REALITY. With Mr Thaksin or without, build a bridge and get over it already, or you're likely done as well. Chok dee.

You're naive and you obviously have no understanding of what actually took place during Thaksins reign. There was a massive power shift taking place. It had nothing to do with Thaksins mongerings and financial dealings. That was a red herring for simpletons to grasp on to.

But you probably never understood politics in your own country either.

If this was a true democracy I would go into details. It's not. I'll respect the owners of this board and not go there...though anybody reading material from OUTSIDE Thailand knows full well what I'm referring to.

 

Who was Thaksin really taking from? If you say the "people", you don't get it.

If Thailand had a fully mature and "efficient" working democracy then indeed it would have been the "people". I think though .. that LOS still has vestiges of Feudalism hanging in the dark corners. More up to date versions of it .. but still. So .. your probably right. 

You have no idea how refreshing it is to read what you just wrote.

Are coups legal in a democracy?

Coups are usually performed by the military. There's no democracy in the military .. got that soldier? If they are strong enough they don't have to care about rules.

"International Rules of Love and War" ..... "all's fair"

The point is, they are not legal if a future government restores a previous democratically established constitution.

It then becomes an act of treason and all responsible may be held accountable.

Thinking 3 steps ahead is why the current government spends all their time worrying about Thaksin. He's a much better chess player.

People will do a lot more to prevent somebody taking from them than they will to achieve more.

Who was Thaksin really taking from? If you say the "people", you don't get it.

Good to see so many new members joining this thread.

From what I can see most members joined before you ; )

Are coups legal in a democracy?

Not only legal, but compulsory. Next ...

Actually, they're not.

But now we've been able to establish the intellectual baseline...and it's low. : )

There are some real interesting articles on the internet about Thailand by publications like the Economist, Times, Newsweek, etc...of course, they have no idea what's going on here...even though their reporters are based here. You can't read any of them here because truth and reality are still verboten.

What I see here on a regular basis is not much better than the mentality of a National Enquirer reader in the US.

Are coups legal in a democracy?

Hi

Anyone have recent experience with the Consulate. Not surprisingly, they don't reply to emails. I'm going to Taiwan for a holiday and may take the opportunity to pick up a new 2 month Thai Tourist Visa.

I will be going November 12.

Thanks for the reply

Con

YES, I lived there for 18 months and acquired 3 TOURIST visas for Thailand (last one 6 months ago).

BE PREPARED to show a bank statement (current, or CASH) showing your ability to survive in Thailand the duration of your 60 day visa - they will ask for it (forget asking for a double entry - they don't issue them). Your paper work showing your ability to support yourself financially is submitted with your application.

You will also required to show an air ticket leaving Thailand upon the 60 day visa expiring. This is submitted with your application also. Neither point is negotiable. You don't show a ticket leaving Thailand, you don't get a visa. As a matter of fact, they won't even process it.

The Trade Office is not "friendly" like Penang (in the old days) or Vientiane currently. They have asked every time why 30 days will not be sufficient for a visit.

So, BE PREPARED.

Chiang Mai is well into the spirit of things at numerous locations.

Lots of Loy Krathong 2009 pix at:

http://www.everythingcraig.com/?cat=24

He didn't get ousted for doing allegedly good things, there's no need to include them.

Good things ? What good things ? Example - a murderer or paedophile or bank robber is judged on his "bad" deeds - not whatever "good" he might have done. That's the law in most countries I suppose. The so-called "good" things may be considered mitigating circumstances and may be taken into consideration in sentencing. But "bad" is "bad" surely ? No matter how much "good" may be claimed as well. There's not a balance sheet where "good" and "bad" can be used to cancel each other out. MalcolmL

It's all rather elementary isn't it?

Just show the evidence.

Intersting list. The only problem is proving it. Proving that men in uniform have appoited their friends in state enterprises and have breached the trust of their sharholders is much easier. How about trippling the economic growth? Or having been able to reduce the death of infants in half? Having been able to reduce the tea money that the friends of the couptakers asked for a place in university or demonstration schools? having supplies the poor with microcredit (not a bad thing given the nobel prize this year), or having been able to help out the poor when their was a disaster (Have not yet seen a hirake in uniform this time, maybe they were too busy). Or what about having reduced the number of children addicted to drugs. And did Thaksin not get his satellite license from the last military government, as well the mobile phone license? Some people must have profitted? It is so easy to make a list, substantiating is much more of a headache.

Wait till that other general Chavalit makes a list about those other generals, that would be more fun.

By the way what happened with the freedom of speech, that Sondhi could use to criticize Thaksin? Why aren't we treated with the same courtesy?

Just wondering

So interesting isn't it. Accusations galore. Thaksin banished from the country. No substantive evidence to date. Freedoms lost to regular Thai citizens. Democracy takes a hit.

Who exactly is profiting from this?

That's the question that should be answered.

He didn't get ousted for doing allegedly good things, there's no need to include them.

Generals also don't need to prove anything. The public knows what they are talking about, both anti- and pro- Thaksin camps. None of the allegations have been ever disputed anyway.

Pro-Thaksin villagers argued that those transgressions were not important. Generals disagreed.

<snip /mod>

As they are always acting on someones bequest they should be made to announce WHO requested they do what they do.

Of course, the majority of the people in Thailand only voted voted in a majority government twice so that shouldn't really count should it?

Oh, they don't live in Bangkok, so it doesn't count....

Good info. Thanks so much

What were you required to show in terms of finances? Bank book? Copy of bank book? How much was required?

Thanks.

Hi all,

My wife and I just returned from Singapore today, where I got my very first non-immigrant O visa, good for one year (multi-entry). I had been doing border runs since January of this year.

Here's the straight scoop:

Visa applications are only accepted between 09:15 and 12:15 Mon-Fri, closed on Thai holidays.

Passport/visa pickup is the next day starting at 14:00 - pickup available until 16:30

Show up right at 09:00 and be in the front of the line. (we got there around 09:30 and were about 20th in the queue). Go inside the embassy, grab a visa application, and fill it out - very simple form. Then grab a queue number from the Q-o-matic and wait for your number to be called.

For the "married man's visa": my initial understanding (based on advice from Sunbelt) is that I was to get an initial 90 day non-immigrant O visa, then extend here in Thailand. Not the only option, as it turns out.

When I got up to the counter (with my bride in tow) and asked for the 90 day non-immigrant O, the rather nice woman at the counter informed me that with the new visa rule changes came the option of getting a one year, multi-entry visa for $220 SGD (5200 baht or so). I asked her about this one year visa, and she said they started offering it recently as they wanted to make things easier (her words, not mine).

So I paid the fee - cash only in Singapore dollars, mind you - and off we went.

The documentation required:

Copy of wife's ID card

Copy of marriage certificate

My passport

Passport Photo - 2x4 cm

We were out of there by 10:05 a.m. and off to do some shopping and relax - Total time of 30 minutes in the queue, max two minutes in front of the window.

Returned to embassy the next day around 13:30 - bit of a queue at the gate, so we jump in. Right at 14:00, the gates open up - walked out at 14:05 with my passport in hand containging my spanking new, non-immigrant O multi-entry visa.

Upshot is, the overall experience was quite good. So if you're getting a "married man's visa" for the first time, I'd recommend Singapore based on my experience.

Some thoughts based on some things I witnessed there - "no brainers" really, but worth a mention IMO.

- Show up with the proper documentation - I was surprised that there were people in line without the required documentation. Embassy staff also seem to be more helpful if you show up well prepared.

- Dress smart - Singapore is one of the financial capitals of asia, and the embassy is right in the middle of shopping and biz district. Do not show up at the embassy looking like a backpacker or a "Pattaya Regular" - because everyone around you will be dressed far better than you, and as a result you will stand out like a sore thumb.

Hope this helps - feel free to PM me with any direct questions.

Whilke we are currently not able discuss freely, after the dust settles it would be most interesting to see the money trail:

1. all the people who Thaksin replaced, who and where did the money trail lead from them?

2. the people Thaksin appointed, who and where did the money trail lead?

3. the new appointees replacing Thaksins appointments, who and where?

I'm confident this would be of interest to all who are actually interested in the truth, THE WHOLE TRUTH.

It would also be of interest to see full asset disclosure for ALL the parties involved in the current situation.

Surely the truth is the highest ideal of all concerned?

I look forward to a new constitution.

I look forward to a democratically elected government where the majority rule.

I look forward to evidence that will stand up in the courts of the country, instead of allegations and innuendo.

I believe the Thai people deserve this after 15 years of democracy.

How is it that "guests" in this country so easily forget that "the people" twice voted in the current Prime Minister?

Does the military in your country get involved in politics when they don't like the results of an election?

I say follow the money trail. Who has been bankrolling all the anti-government propoganda since the last election?

Can you spell a-l-c-o-h-o-l and t-o-b-a-c-c-o ?

Triple Entry Tourist Visa FINISHED in Penang

As of Tuesday the consulate in Penang has stopped the issuance of the triple entry tourist visa and is instead issuing the single entry tourist visa.

This has been confirmed.

NO MORE PENANG TRIPLE ENTRY TOURIST VISA

My neighbor just returned from Penang this evening.

The TRIPLE ENTRY TOURIST VISA is no more. They will only issue one entry of 30 days now.