hjvdhoef

In my view the support for the Reds hardline stance is limited.

However Thais deplore the military shooting other Thais.

Actually I suspect that they would accept it, if the military action actually achieved anything and restored order but so far that has not been the case.

All good points.

In recent history, the Thais have seen the military take illegitimate actions on their own accord that end in the shooting of mostly unarmed protesters.

This time, the shirt is on inside out. There is a heavily armed illegal force in the streets, the military has been hesitant to take action, and a government in (marginal) control is trying to restore law and order while attempting to follow court issued decrees.

Although the script is new, Thais certainly have ample reason to be suspicious of military action and no Thai wants to see any Thai shot. The fact the the majority see such harsh action necessary to reestablish law and order is very significant. Even if the majority was 50.001 %, even if the pole is less than accurate.

Lets pray that whatever action is taken, it restores order with the minimum of human sufferage.

Do you believe this kind of polls?You must be naive.What happen now in Bangkok is just the beginning what will happen in the next years.The north and north east of Thailand will never give up.

So do you think anyone actually believes that because you show some random bloody pictures you have proven that reds aren't armed?

I think there is no doubt Seh Daeng was not armed......but I guess for some on this forum as long as 100 are armed the other 10,000 are asking to be shot.....I used this word on another thread

Hypocrites....

Just a tad slanted

"real bullets used by soldiers and M79 grenades fired by unidentified assailants."

This article should have clearly been marked "opinion" as it cannot be classified

as objective journalism

Aahh, the fake reds ofcourse!

As both CNN and BBC are reporting: there are different factions within Thaksin's movement, from feetclapping old ladies to paramilltary killers!

to paramilltary killers!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many soldiers did they killed yesterday.......zero

How many civilians were killed,to many.

A bullshit story,you must be a member of the elite.

I think we get another coup. Condolence for the death's family.How many more?

The redshirts are on the verge of getting what they want. It is more much likely that it is someone else who wants to disrupt the peacetrain.

This is a possibility.

Another is that the peace plan is something the reds dont want but they know they cant reject it outright. Perhaps they still want Abhisit out and house dissolution ASAP to create a power vacuum.

That is the answer the yellow shirts want and many step in this trap.

Some group don't want that the government and red shirts are making progress.

This time the yellow shirts????

When everything is over with the red shirts,the baht is going 29 against the U.S dollar.

I love it.

Well, you can say what you want, but this is it. Abhisit has done what is possible and leaned over further than any politician ever before him and the reds are not happy (which was to be expected). They will not be happy unless a total pardon is given which is impossible. Thaksin is not happy because he would not be able to get back into power despite what his "medium" predicted.

Mr. Abhisit, it is time!

Nobody can put any blame upon you or the Thai government for any dead rand wounded ed's during a clean-up operation and the arrest of their leaders etc..

PLEASE do it tonight

They simply will and can not stop until they get what they want since they know, anything else will mean jail

anything else will mean jail.......

You're joking.All the yellow shirts are still walking free and get top functions.

A good compromise...but it will never happen.

Why? Because the Red Shirts do not want a compromise solution. They certainly do not want the government to do anything that will actually help the poor Issan farmer because that is where their core membership is drawn from. The Red Shirts do not want a solution to the political crises because if there is a real solution the Red Shirts lose all the support they get from the dissatisfied Issan farmers. If the Red shirts lose that support, they have no real political program to offer...they in fact have nothing to offer but more protests. The power of the Red Shirts comes from anger toward the governemnt. If that anger drops, they lose their support. The real reason for the Red Shirts movement is to bring back Thaksin. Anything else, such as "helping the poor" is just a lie they use to disquise their real purpose...to restore Thaksin to power.

If you don't believe me now...go right ahead. But you will see that the Red Shirts will find some good reason not to accept this or any compromise. Disruption is their bread and butter, it legitimises their protests. Without disruption, the Red Shirts have no reason for protest. Without the protests they have no way to mobilize their followers. Without mobilizing the poor farmers to protest the Red Shirs lose theri reason for existance. Therefore any compromise is not in the real interests of the Red Shirts.

My prediction: the Red Shirts will find some "reason" to reject this or any compromise offered to them. Why? Because without protests the Red Shirts have no reason to exist as they do now. You will see.

Why you never read Abhisit statement to the bottum and not only the first lines.Did you read his IFS?Thats the trick.He will complain in November that one of his IFS is not solved.A smart fellow.

But the red shirts are reading it to the bottum as well and say no and I cannot blame them.

When they arrest the red shirts,then the same with the yellow shirts.All in the same prison.Then they can fight over there.Who left is the winner.

It all depends on what color shirt you have if it is yellow free press your own TV station. If it is red your TV station is blocked.

Or you could say if the TV Station is broadcasting lies, advocating violence and inciting people to break the law it is being blocked.

But I will be honest, I have never seen Red TV but if it is anything like what is being said on the red stage and other red internet outlets than I do believe shutting them down is only the first step. They need to be prosecuted as would happen in most any other country that claims freedom of the press.

In fact, in most other countries stations like this would not even be allowed to get a license. The problem we have here is the timing in which the PM took action against theses stations. They should have been held accountable before they helped incite the current lawless mob holding the country hostage.

Keep in mind that there are MANY restrictions to the press in EVERY country and censorship is very standard in most of Asia with things those of us in the west are not used to. However, there are also things shown in the UK that would not be shown on broadcast TV in the US and vice versa.

The FCC in the use is the governing body over what can be said on the airwaves as well as who can own a radio or TV station. The FCC is a gov't body. We would not have this kind of problem in the US because these channels would never make in on the air to begin with. Fox is an example I'm sure people would use to say you can get away with hateful and bias reporting but they are very careful not to incite violence and condemn it. However, the do spend most of their time actually doing commentary and not news but many people think it is actually news. That is where the confusion comes from.

I never read so much crap in my life.What do you think,what this government and TV stations and this paper sad is the truth?Ask any Human right group what they think about this government. The next disaster comes when they start killing there own people.How do you call that in Western democracies.....a civil war!!!!!

Is nothing sacred? What if Kwanchai had another Big Mac attack, he could have been killed. Stop with the bombs we all deserve a break today!

Yellow arches on a red background, work harmoniously to bring us sustenance, I think we could all learn something from that.

That's a good one.I'm agree with that.

I know farangs who never go for a visa.They stay illegal in the country and the chance the police ask for your passport is little.

No stress.

The driver of a BTS Skytrain has told police investigating the fatal M79 grenade attack on the Sala Daeng BTS station that he saw rocket propelled grenades fired from the Robinson Department Store building.A bunch of liars this government.Maybe these are there own men who did it and blame the red shirts for it.

New elections and the show is over.But this government know they will loose.

No end in sight. Is there a way to end this peacefully?

Well, why not let them vote? Plus, it just might save some innocent lives - and some people say, the economy too.

No government should be forced to call elections by violent mobs.

Right because this government don't know what elections are,they are voted by the elite, military .When this happen in a Western country the people don't take it either.

But I think you're to long in Thailand and you don't know it either.

MULTIPLE CHOICE QUIZ!

Okay what are the likely scenario(s) over the next few days?

A. multi-colored protesters and red shirts clash and all hel_l breaks loose

B. government troops and red shirts clash and fight till red shirts are dispersed

C. government troops and red shirts clash, but red shirts prevail and remain

D. Abhisit dissolve Parliament and abandons ship

E. Thaksin dies of cancer and everyone returns to their senses

F. nothing happens and we are either bored to death or die of old age

I don't think it's right to have choices based on pure rumour and speculation; people rarely return to their senses.

You forgot G:Drink beer like usual.

And he is not in charge. Watch your back mate. If he shouts fire, who knows which way the bullets will be flying. Certainly Thailand will be flying up the UN's list of oppressive regimes and even onto US sanctions lists.

PAD, the people who wrested power from the People on the premise they were too stupid to vote, through mob rule and army control by their elite backers are now coming back on to the street to ensure that the power is not returned through the ballot box.

Can I have accurate soundbite of the day for that please on the BBC?

Nice organisation and I am not surprised they are disguising themselves as multi colourted protesters.

Once the yellow shirts go on, then the army will split.

What utter Nonsense Sir.

No nonsenses,but truth.

"Because of the Red Shirts, many foreigners don't come here. Business is no good," .

Ahh, diddums. I'm sure you have a bit put aside after years of fleecing those very foreigners.

patpong is far away from prathunam, where the protesters are.

why soldiers have decided to park on this very street and close the night market is beyond me - there are many other roads and places where they can be positioned (if they really have to be on the streets and not in the barracks) without obstructing the public.

blaming the reds, instead of blaiming the army, is illogical

It's totally logical and actually clever thinking; that they have claimed the top tourist draw in the area, which will thus have the effect of keeping innocent Thais and foreigners out of harms way. At the end of the day, a tacky market and a bunch of go-go bars is neither here nor there. Plenty more elsewhere in the city.

As for illogical; how's tens of thousand of paid protesters holding a country hostage?

Ask Abishit..

Forgive me if I'm mistaken.

But I thought the whole point of Special Operations deployments was that you don't tell the other side you're coming

thats true Crossy, if you want to surprise and kill them outright

if you don't, then its good strategy to instill a little fear in the enemy

let them know and see whats coming and give some time for those who don't have the stomach for a fight to leave

i believe i advocated this in my post yesterday

looks like someone in authority was reading it...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Rajprasong-H...ts-t357069.html #13

this article gets to the root of the problem in trying to remove these protesters

the authorities have allowed then to get comfortable, they are well fed and watered

they have bathing facilities, toilets and entertainment.

if it came to a fight they are well rested and ready for it

the authorities should effect some measures to change that situation before making any efforts to move them

a little sleep deprevation would go a long way towards success

so lets bring in some huge mobile disco units, surround the site with them safe behind army/police lines and serande them with some very sad Thai songs that refer to dead relatives, lost loves, long dead favourite buffaloes, loss of sons, daughters, motorbikes etc

lets set the tone for a massive loss, lets get people thinking about a loss/death of a relative.

lets get them thinking about their own mortality and how their death might affect their family

lets get some huge projectors and use it to project images onto nearby buildings, of their beloved leader and his HiSo family enjoying the high life on his private planes, private yachts and reflecting his extravagent living in expensive hotels.

there is no need for sound, just add subtitles that tell them how Thaksin is spending the money he stole from them and how he is travelling the world in luxury whilst they sleep on the streets.

you could do comparison shots, him-you, him-you

a general mood should be created of anticipation of an attack by the troops

one that will come in the early hours

paranoia should be introduced at every opportunity

the minds of the combatants will do the rest

bring in some big troop carrying helicopters in the daytime and very loudly and very visibly drop heavily armed troops on to the top of buildings surrounding the rally area

have them dramatically drop down ropes to the roofs SAS style

these guys do not need to actaully be military, they could even be amateur mountaineers, no need for them to have weapons

this can be documented by officials before hand

its just to introduce a little paranoia to the crowd

start and encourage rumours amongst the crowd that they are surrounded by hundreds of snipers.

let them think that every time they see the glint of the sun on a window its a snipers scope

this can easily be done by officials infiltrating the crowd

Thais love rumours

have a few very visible and highly publicised drive bys of the area by big tanks laden with fully armed troops with very visible weapons like rocket launchers, grenade launchers and maybe even towing some howitzers.

let the reds see whats actually on the move against them

more paranoia

lets have some very visible substantial troop movements by some very heavily armed troops

preferably known to be from the south or the borders with Burma and Cambodia were they are used to dealing with insurgents

have them fly into Don Mueng live on TV

this should be highly publicised and rumours about what they are doing in Bangkok should be circulated to the reds

rumours should circulate that martial law is going to be introduced

rumours should indicate a shoot to kill policy is in place for those who do not obey the armys orders

rumours should tell the reds that they should write letters to their loved ones and family whilst they have a last chance to do so

more paranoia

rumours should circulate that somehow the army has added some kind of powerful sleeping draft to the water supplies

also to the bottled water being supplied to them

also to the food, and that they should treat everything with suspicion now

tell them if they feel sleepy they should report to the medical tent immediately

tell them they should not go to sleep and that it could be dangerous to go to sleep

tell them its the same kind of drug that katoeys use on clients in Pattaya, they will know of many that have died whilst being robbed.

to make sure show news clippings in Thai on the projectors of the deaths

more paranoia, less sleep

at night when things do settle down, the army should safely detonate huge exposive charges in the immediate area

if not explosives then launch huge fireworks every 20 minutes

send off flares to illuminate the area

this will keep them awake and think that the war starting

it will make for less sleep and more paranoia

it may even flush out the ronin warriors who could be taken out by snipers

have some snipers stationed with their spotters with a recording equipped spotting scope

that way when the kill is made it can be seen afterwards by the media to have been on an armed person, not an innocent protestor and therefore a justifiable kill

in the early hours of the morning stealth helicopters could drop capsicum onto the crowd using a crop dusting attachment

fire fighting chanooks could drop thousands of gallons of water onto the stage and take out the electrics and give then a songkran treat too

one could get unidentified bodies from the morgue, dress them in red shirts and leave them in areas near to the rally

they should be in a position where they can easily be found

it should be rumoured that there are reds in the crowd that are with the army and government and that they are picking off the protestors one by one

they should be told to look at your neighbour with suspicion and care

you might be the next victim !

more paranoia.........

what happened to the body beforehand should be well documented and can be proven as false flag bodies later when the reds point fingers at the Army

rumours to promote paranoia and sleep depravation should circulate all the time, maybe that the US has joined the fight, maybe the SAS, the Gurkhas or Mossad

maybe that private contractors from Blackwater have flown into to Thailand from Iraq

maybe a local building should be blown up by the army as a message to the reds

the paranoia value would easily cover rebuilding costs

the red who go home every night and return next day should be made to stay at the rally ground and told that a night attack is coming and they are needed at the site to defend each other

keep them there all the time with false rumours and deprive them of sleep too

if i was in charge these reds would not have more than 10 minutes peace day or night

their heads would be full with black magic, broken buddahs, defeatist thoughts, paranoid ideas and rumours

their imagination would do what the army cannot do at this time

ok, i have to get on now, other points to address, feel free to add to the diversionary ideas i have proposed

remember all should be relatively non violent and should intended to increase paranoia and sleep depravation not to take lives

once they are literally tired out then the army should attempt move them

less sleep=less fight

Another Rambo

Anything from the illegal government about how "tooled up" the Military junta are?

Any more mad Rambo colonels been deployed to shoot up the redshirts?

You've got it turned around 180 degrees. The gov't is not illegal. It came about similar to the Thaksin, Samak and Somchai governments - via coalition building among elected reps according to a parliamentary system. It's not the most solid coalition, but it's no less legal than the two preceding gov't's, and Thaksin was holding on by the skin of his teeth with a self-imposed 'caretaker PM' position that was past its due date when the military stepped in with a bloodless coup. Where were the Reds when the coup happened? Not one iota of support for T nor one peep of protest at the time. Why were the Reds not protesting when Samak and Somchai were put in the power seat (?) - by similar constitutional means as Abhisit.

The 'mad Rambo colonel' you mentioned was an army officer doing his assigned job - who was specifically targeted by rogue elements of the Red Shirts. A laser was shone on him, then a smoke bomb was tossed at him (to further target him), then immediately a grenade was tossed - which killed him and wounded soldiers in his vicinity. Few if any security forces worldwide would have had the self-control that Thai forces showed on April 10th. Most forces would have immediately gone to full tilt destroy mode (that's what military are trained for, to kill and destroy) .....and gunned down a slew of Thais - Reds and their automatic weapon totting buddies in black. If that had happened, then you could rightly call the colonel 'mad Rambo' Instead, you had an ill-led, overly cautious, non-vengeful military that night - and hence, much less bloodshed than would be expected in such circumstances.

We're here in Thailand and not watching a Rambo movie.

RIP fellow ozzie dude...

but,

Slashed with a machete? This is becoming like Somalia!

Sad, very sad for Thailand.

Sad for his wife and family you mean.

Drought could hit 45 provinces.....

That happen already.Here in Cha-am this year almost no rain at all.

But during Songklan everybody forget about and complain after Songklan.

Thai style....so,relax.

This is Thailand focks,we change to freestyle.

The flight compagny who bring you to Thailand,support you with a form like visa on arrival for 30 days.

A justified reaction is coming very soon. That, or a coup. The impatience is understandable but Abhisit had to wait to show the country just how destructive and anti-democratic the red shirts are. If he moved too early, it would have backfired.

Democracy in Thailand?Nobody here about it.