Delight

The committee can make this change of PM without a co-owner vote. But it requires a majoirty vote in favour by the committe, so an issue is how many votes on the committee does the developer have?

What percentage of the builing is unsold and who is the JPM?

You should get quotes from other PM providers first as they may not want to service the buidling anyway. Let me have an idea of how many units and I can tell you how much reputable firms would charge.

As I mentioned previously, I strongly advise against self managing as this is only a short term fix adopted by newbies.

Where is the bldg? You may not want to disclose what bldg it is, but if you can subtly indicate the bldg and the developer some of us can advise you more. The developer must have a reason for wanting to control the bldg and this needs taking in to account. I doubt it is to make a profit from mgt fees in reality.

Thank u for your excellent response

The committee has 5 members 100% wish to change.

Non of the units are unsold. However there is a suspicion that may units were sold to farang via a Thai Company . These companies were supplied by the developer. The unsuspecting farang not realising that the majority of the Company voting rights remained with Thais that the developer controls.For this reason we wish to change without a Co Owner vote

37 units Cannot name the developer. We are in Pattaya . The building next door(which is now independant of the same developer) users a Management Company with success. Earlier attempts to manage using local Thais proved unsuccessful. We expect to pay about Baht 33K per month. for manager .JP and advisory services. The manager and JP to be jointly shared.The committee expects to oversee and measure all aspects of the Management companies work.

6 rooms to date(nearly 3 years) have not paid a single baht in service fees. These people are not keen to change.My question about the vote is motivated by the potential future response of these Non -Payers. They will look for any excuse not to pay .

As u say the developer will not make money-however our income is a contribution to his overheads.

So given the aforementioned ,would you suggest that we can change from developer(when his 3 year contract expires) to another provider without a Co-Owner vote?

The management company can be changed at any time. The developer can only control this if they still own a large proportion or majority of units.

Don't be intimidated by the developer, who may be acting as committee, Juristic person and property managers. This happens.

Has an AGM been held? Is there a committee of Co-owners? is the chairman the developer? are you on the committee?

I deduce from your first statement that a vote is required?

We have had our First meeting-elected a committee. I chair the committee.This has all happened recently. The committee details will be registered at the Land Registry Office,shortly.

The developer currently controls everything. The co-owners simply pay a annual service fee(for a very average service).

The contract with the developer terminates later this year.

I sense that the co-owners will feel that they are entitled to vote to decide on the continuation of the present arrangement or to use an alternative approach.

From what u imply this is a prerequisite for change

Thanks for your input

I make several points:

- You can do very little without the consent of the co-owners, however some things can be done by the consent of the majority of the elected committee. This is all spelled out in clear detail in the English language version of the appropriate regulations. The book can be purchased, inexpensive, at many bookshops and at 'Land & House' offices. It's worth getting a copy.

- It's unwise to do anything outside of the regulations. There is a government office which does random audits of the committee / juristic person actions and documents. Our condo committee do everything strictly to the regulations. We have been 'audited' several times. Every time they gave us a scolding about very very tiny errors on documents.

- Before appointing a new 'management company' can I suggest you look at the following points:

-

• Do you really need it, can the committee and the juristic person plus a manager (employed by a decision of the committe) handle the situation? In fact 12 months ago we sacked the outside management company. The monthly fee for the management company plus the salary of the manager they appointed was about 70.000Baht a month. The management company provided no value whatever, were unprofessional in their work, when they conducted (moderated) six monthly / yearly owners meetings their work was seriously and regularly challenged by the owners and they did nothing to improve their act whatever. Plus the manager they appointed was totally incapable and allowed the lobby staff / the office staff / the security / the technical services into an on the job party and we're still trying to sort that out.
  

Thank u very much for your several points. However ,do you have an answer to my question?

The Developer contracted to manage the building for the 1st 3 years. At the end of that contract is a vote required(by the Co-Owners) to change to a new provider-given that this will change the manager?

Condo Act

Section 49 of the Condo Act states that an appointment or removal of the condo manager requires not less than one-fourth of the total number of possible votes of the co-owners.

Section 43 states that a quorum of the meeting requires co-owner attendants with rights to vote not less than one-fourth of the total number of possible votes.

(example) 75% attending a Meeting

its not likely that you will have 100% attendance at the meeting, but if you had, for example, 75% of all possible votes in attendance at the meeting (and 25% vote to remove a manager and 50% vote against removal, then the manager stays because of the vote is against the resolution).

(example) 30% attending a Meeting

however, let's say that you only got 30% of all possible votes to attend the meeting (you still have a quorum), but 20% vote to remove the manager and 10% vote against...the manager stays, because even though the majority at the meeting won the resolution, the vote did not reach the legal minumum of 25% of the total number of possible votes...

Will the number of total votes reduce at a Co-Owners meetings ,if 1 or more of the Co-Owners has has his/her voting rights legally suspended as a consequence of problems with unpaid bills?

Does the answer apply to all types of Co-Owner meetings?

Condo Act

Section 49 of the Condo Act states that an appointment or removal of the condo manager requires not less than one-fourth of the total number of possible votes of the co-owners.

Section 43 states that a quorum of the meeting requires co-owner attendants with rights to vote not less than one-fourth of the total number of possible votes.

(example) 75% attending a Meeting

its not likely that you will have 100% attendance at the meeting, but if you had, for example, 75% of all possible votes in attendance at the meeting (and 25% vote to remove a manager and 50% vote against removal, then the manager stays because of the vote is against the resolution).

(example) 30% attending a Meeting

however, let's say that you only got 30% of all possible votes to attend the meeting (you still have a quorum), but 20% vote to remove the manager and 10% vote against...the manager stays, because even though the majority at the meeting won the resolution, the vote did not reach the legal minumum of 25% of the total number of possible votes...

Will the number of total votes reduce at a Co-Owners meetings ,if 1 or more of the Co-Owners has has his/her voting rights legally suspended as a consequence of problems with unpaid bills?

Does the answer apply to all types of Co-Owner meetings?

proxy votes are votes in attendance - they are represented at the meeting.

But Trajan, I've a problem with this bit:

(example) 30% attending a Meeting

however, let's say that you only got 30% of all possible votes to attend the meeting (you still have a quorum), but 20% vote to remove the manager and 10% vote against...the manager stays, because even though the majority at the meeting won the resolution, the vote did not reach the legal minumum of 25% of the total number of possible votes.

For chucking out a manger and a few other bits you have to have 50% or the owners represented at the meeting, physically or proxies. And then you must have a majority of the vote.

You are correct that the manager in your example would stay, but even if the full 30% of those attending voted to chuck them out there was not 50% of the owners represented so the manager would stay.

My reading of the law anyway.

My reading is not quite the same.

A Appointing and removing a manager

B Indicating operations which can be delegated by the manager

Require a majority of the total votes cast,and that number of votes cast must be no less than the one-fourth of the number of votes total in the entire condo.

Issues such as buying /selling property,altering the Condo physically ,in some way-- require a majority vote and that number of votes cast must be no less than one-half of the number of votes total in the entire Condo. I guess in this circumstance if you get the latter you will automatically get the former

Am I reading it Right?

Condo Act

Section 49 of the Condo Act states that an appointment or removal of the condo manager requires not less than one-fourth of the total number of possible votes of the co-owners.

Section 43 states that a quorum of the meeting requires co-owner attendants with rights to vote not less than one-fourth of the total number of possible votes.

(example) 75% attending a Meeting

its not likely that you will have 100% attendance at the meeting, but if you had, for example, 75% of all possible votes in attendance at the meeting (and 25% vote to remove a manager and 50% vote against removal, then the manager stays because of the vote is against the resolution).

(example) 30% attending a Meeting

however, let's say that you only got 30% of all possible votes to attend the meeting (you still have a quorum), but 20% vote to remove the manager and 10% vote against...the manager stays, because even though the majority at the meeting won the resolution, the vote did not reach the legal minumum of 25% of the total number of possible votes...

Thank you for clearing that up

One further Q.

Do proxies count as"' Votes in Attendance""?

As I read it -in relation to a Co-Owner vote when removing and appointing managers(for example) if 26% vote "Agree" and 74% vote "Not Agree'' -to the proposal from committee then the "Agree" get the decision.

Is this about practicalities rather than Democracy?

Going to court is expensive and you do not know the outcome.

But the threat to an owner of cutting utilities or access makes money appear like magic in many cases.

Once you get delinquent payers down to a small percentage people get into the habit of paying bills and there are fewer problems.

P.S. but do it nicely .....................

Thank you very much for your sound advise

Thanks also to those who also responded to my request for help

I feel I can move forward in confidence and deal with the delinquent co-owners

Although not specifically stated in the Condo Act, water and electricity service can be suspended. However, your condo by-laws must state that the water and electricity will be suspended after <specific number of> days.

Thank you for your reply

I have read the condo by laws relating to my condo and it states there that services can be cut -off.However the document refers to the former 1979 Act.

Could this be a potential "' get out of jail for free card"' for delinquent payers ?

Further are you aware of any circumstances when a delinquent payer has successfully used a Thai court to overturn the instructions of the Committee /JP/Manager in respect of the withdrawal of utilities?

Maybe Thailand has other laws to protect the consumer which override the Condo Act.

The new Thai Condominium Act 2008 states in relation to co-owners who had not paid for a period in excess of 6 month"'the common services or right to use common properties may be ceased""

Does this mean that water and electricity can be cut-off?

Also if they pay for their utilities but do not pay the General service charge can utilities still be ceased?

In my Condo it is one vote per room, I have two rooms so have 2 votes but have not had the opportunity to vote for anything yet.

By 2 rooms I mean 2 units.

Condo will be 3 years old Sept 2010

!st AGM yet to occur

Thanks for your reply.

You state 1 vote per unit. Most other responses suggest the bigger the Condo the bigger the vote

I am still abit confused

Many people assert that the bigger your condo then the more voting rights you possess.

Certainly the condo Act clearly states that those with larger condos pay more(for services etc) than those with smaller condos.

I cannot find anywhere in the Act any specific formula which determines the scale of voting rights.

Maybe I am looking in all the wrong sections

Does anybody have the definitive position

ADL

Hello

I purchased a pair of Givi hard side boxes from Bike Mate

The Brackets that came with the kit were of little use ,so I designed my own Stainless Steel Bkts .

The result is that the boxes are towards the rear of the bike -so no obstruction for the passenger -and they un -clip when I stay in a hotel .

I live in Pattaya . The SS brackets were made locally. A couple of metric studs are required inorder to mount the brackets easily. I got these from the UK. The rear lights are now mounted in the SS brackets.

A bit of work ,but well worth the trouble

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

I suspect that the Thai authorities feel insulted.

For the circumstances that you detail a Non -Immigrant O visa is available. Typically it is easy to obtain.

It does require some effort and money.

I think this proposed 'loophole filling' is more than reasonable

Hi delight can you tell me how easy is it to take your bike across the border into Cambodia. What paperwork do you need at the border and how is the roads now? last time i went they were pretty bad!!

[/quote

Hello carbine1125

You will require the Green Book in your name(the bike must have awhite plate)

The hassle is all on the Thai side. You will go from window to window at Thai Immigration.

At the Hat lek border the officials are on the RHS. You must obtain some paper work from this area and then proceed to a building on the Left hand side. You will have no problems getting thru,but it appears that the official who deals with Passports knows nothing about motor bike entries.

The fun may start on the Cambodian side

I refuse to pay the opening asking price for my Visa(typically they ask 1200 Baht.)

The price is 20USD. I take USD with me and stand my ground. They will lie and cheat you into giving them the 1200

Typical statements

1) Dollar is not official Cambodian Currency . Lie Number1

2) 20USD only applies if you fly into Phnon Penh Lie Number 2

3) They will ask you to go outside. Insist that you wish to purchase a Visa . The price is 20 USD. You have 20 USD . One Visa please

4) They will threaten to take you to their boss. Insist that they do

Typically you will have to wait outside . After 5 mins go back into the office. At this point they want to see the back of you and will accept 20USD

Cost of bringing a motor bike into Cambodia. There is none. Do not mention the motor bike. If you do they will charge you 100 Baht per day

Roads

I can only speak from my experience in March 2007

There is now a new road . When I was there one section was very dodgy. I hired a moto to lead the way.ie If he can do it so can I. This section could now well be finished. I cannot tell u where the road was heading to. I was staying in Koh Kong and fancied a drive. The road as the crow flies is a extension of the new Bridge. Driving on that part iof the road which was complete was a delight. New road,beautiful scenery and no traffic

Good luck

Delight

Thanks for your help I went to see the Platinums today in the carrefour show on pattaya klang the display was brillant,they sent me to the showroom on 3rd road and it looked like they were giving something away.I saw seven bikes being delivered in 20 minutes.I will go back for a test ride when there not so busy.Any feed back on the choppers?

Hello bingo2 2007 02 03 1119109

I originally planned to buy a S/H Honda Phantom. Primarily for 1000k trips .Ideally one 'Fully Loaded'. To that end I rented one for 2 days. I decided that the Phantom was not for me. Too low and difficult around corners. So I tested a Platinum Monaco 150.I liked it immediately.Comfortable ,good seating position and easy to handle.

I was concious of the fact that when you buy a bike from a Tawain Company(assembled in Bangkok)the BIG picture (ie the general design and specification) would be highly satisfactory. The SMALL picture (ie the detail of both design and assembly) however is likely to be a challenge.The Japs typically get both right.

However ,persuaded by the BIG picture (and the very low price) I purchased a Monaco 250DJ.

I list the challenges after 6 weeks ownership.

1) Vibration. The engine mountings were simply too light duty. All owners were complaining, I guess,so Platinum(3rd Rd Pattaya) organised a re-call back to Bangkok for a up- grade to a stiffer design .Vibration is now not an issue

2) Gearing.This was simply too low. So I found a sprocket manufacturer in Bangkok. They supplied me with 30T to replace the existing 35T rear sprocket.Gear ratios are now ideal.Platinum(Bangkok) finance the Pattaya workshop and 3 mechanics adjacent to the dealer. So labour is for free.

3)Battery.Nothing wrong with the battery supplied-except it was from a Monaco 150 DJ . This was swapped

4) Starter Motor failure. This occurred conveniently in No - Mans Land between Thailand and Cambodia.

Enthusiastic and Baht hungry Khymers were happy to bump me off .Drove the bike into Koh Kong.Luckily the motor bike repair service in Koh Kong has a 'Can Do 'attitude.The stator(which is made from carbon)must have been undersized. This near interference fit had generated carbon dust.This dust resulted in rotor seizure. The motor when stripped was then cleaned (using petrol drained from my tank) and now works perfectly. I suspect it will be good forever now.

Only time will tell if the 'Small ' picture presents more challenges.

The 'Big ' picture has lived up to expectations. The bike is great to drive.

Delight 13 03 2007