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BL4u
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Good evening,
To all you good folks in Thailand.
I have to sign this Contract and then return it via fax or email and then transfer 10% of the Sale price in to the developers bank account as a deposit.
As I have said in my previous posts, this sort of stuff is always done through the buyer and seller's soliciters in every country that I know of.
Should I be doing this by myself?
Essentially, I will be sending quite a big chunk of hard earned cash (around £20K ) to another country based on this:
TAKSIN PROPERTIES COMPANY LIMITED
AGREEMENT TO RESERVE THE RIGHT TO THE AGREEMENT TO PURCHASE AND SELL
CONDOMINIUM UNIT OF
"THE RIVER PROJECT"
Reservation No:___ ___ Quota Foreign Date 8 Month_February_Year_2008__
By this letter, I/We, the undersigned, (hereinafter the "Reserving Party")
( x ) Mr./Ms./ Mrs. _John DOE____Age_ 00_, Nationality_British Citizen_________
holding ID/passport no:_000000000, issued at_United Kingdom on _06/Sep/00___,expiring on
_06/Sep/10_ residing at No_0, Home Gardens, TOWN, COUNTY, United Kingdom_____
Postcode AAA AAA
Tel. _Home +44 0000000, Cell +44 000000000_,Email _My email.com_
( ) Registered Partnership/ Limited Partnership/ Private Company Limited
Incorporated as of __________Registration number Having office located at
no Road__________Moo_______Tambol/Kweng_________Amphur/Khet__________
Province___________ Country Postcode__________Telephone No ,
represented by ,the authorized person acting on behalf of the juristic
person, residing at no Trok/soi________Road_________Moo
Tambol/Khweng__________Amphur/Khet___________Province__________Postcode
Country Tel Email
The Reserving Party wishes to enter into the agreement to reserve the right to enter into the
Agreement to Purchase and Sell Condominium Unit of "The River Project", which is located on
Charoenakorn Road, Tambol Klongtonsai, Amphur Klongsan, Bangkok with Taksin
Properties Co., Ltd. (hereinafter called the "Project Owner" ) in accordance with the
following terms:
1 The Reserving Party agrees to reserve the right to enter into the Agreement to Purchase
and Sell the Condominium Unit No:_A-0000__, Floor__00_, Tower A , Type BB___
Bedrooms 2 , approximate area of _000___ Square Meters at the total unit price of
Baht____0,000,00000__(Baht The agreed amount in words only__)
2 On the date of executing this Agreement, the Reserving Party has paid the reservation fee
in the amount of Baht 100,000 (Baht One hundred thousand only) to the Project
Owner by:
Cash / Money transfer into Taksin Properties Co., Ltd. account
Credit card ______________No
Personal cheque No._________(Bank Branch
Dated__/___/___)
Cashier cheque No__________(Bank Branch
Dated__/___/___)
• In the case of making payment by cheque, this reservation agreement shall be
effective after the Project Owner has collected payment thereunder.
3 The Reserving Party agrees to enter into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the
Condominium Unit as stipulated in clause 1 hereof on (date)_28_/_FEB__/_2008_and
the Reserving Party agrees that the reservation fee paid hereunder shall be applied as
the initial deposit in the amount of Baht 100,000 (One Hundred Thousand Baht) and
agrees to pay additional sum of Baht 00000000 (Baht The amount only) to the Project Owner on the
execution of the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit, and will
make 36 (Thirty Six) equal installment payments to the Project
Owner within the dates fixed by the Project Owner as specified in the Agreement to
Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit.
The Reserving Party understands that the reservation herein is the reservation of right to enter
into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit as stipulated above with the
Project Owner. Therefore, in the event that the Reserving Party, for whatever reasons, cancels
this reservation or fails to enter into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit
on the above specified date, it will be deemed that the Reserving Party waives the right to enter
into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit as stipulated in clause 1 and the
Reserving Party agrees that the Project Owner shall forfeit all reservation deposit. In addition,
the Project Owner has the right to sell such Condominium Unit to other purchasers immediately
without any prior notice to the Reserving Party.
In witness whereof, I/We have affixed my/our signature hereunto in presence of the witness.
Signed __________________________Reserving Party
.
Signed__________________________Witness
( )
Signed__________________________
For and on behalf of
Taksin Properties Co., Ltd.
Signed __________________________Witness
( )Would somebody who is familliar and more qualified than I, have a read through this and tell me if it is 1st:correct, 2nd: Legally binding and finally no tricks or hidden meanings.
I'm sure you get what I'm driving at.
Many, many thanks if somebody can advise me on this before I send it back and transfer the funds.
Cheers
Richard
It is a stupid reservation agreement. It contains nothing and a reservation agreement should always be refundable! What if you do not like the sale and purchase they offer?
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It dawned on me the other day why the 30 year max lease law is unlikely ever to be changed.
It has little to do with farangs wanting long leases on houses they buy or build, and everything to do with Thai owners of land who currently benefit from the 30 year rule. This covers everything from private dwellings to multi-billion Baht commercial plots of land . Everything is leased for a maximum of 30 years and can be renewed or re- let at an increased rent on expiry. The whole economics of the leased property sector in Thailand functions on this premise, and any change in the law would undoubtedly upset many land owning dignitaries who would stand to lose money.
So it ain't gonna happen folks.
The 30 year limitation on usufructs, superficies and leases in Thialand is not typical for the Thai legal system. Other civil law systems in Europe have the exact same limitations and these rights are also limited to 30 years. The 30 year limitation is simply within the system of the law and have nothing to with foreigners owning property in Thailand.
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There are plenty of instances where 30+30 contracts have been honoured - MBK, Dusithani etc.
To be honest I have not heard of any case where people have entered into these contracts and they have not beeen honoured (although I would admit they could exist).
I would be interested to hear of them....
thanks in advance
Abrak or 'Director of a publicly listed Thai company and who has a grandfather who owned 50,000 acres in China and who knows plenty of instances where 30+30 contracts have honoroud' -
Fact is that Thai law has limitations on renewals and lease terms. Are you not simply a property seller selling the possibility of 30+30(+30)? Whishful thinking?
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^agreed. There is one "theory" out there however that is interesting.
If you have a 30 year lease with an option to renew for 30 years, and you pay consideration at the time of entering into the lease to the lessor in return for the lessor granting you the option to renew, then it is no longer "a personal promise", but becomes a legally binding contract.
I have seen a contract written in this way, but in that case the lessor was a corporate entity. That contract also had a provision that it was an event of default under the lease if the lessor sold the property during the initial term of the lease and/or failed to renew the lease. Damages were payable to the lessee in the case of such an event of default (which may not have been enforceable as I was of the opinion they were a penalty, which is subject to the court's approval).
Given that consideration had been paid at the commencement of the contract on the option to renew, the contract stuck in my mind as being one of the most interesting I had read. That said, I would not give anyone a 100% guarantee that it would stand up in a court of law. But then again, I never thought you could do that in Thailand even when you did have a cast iron case (and there's a long list you could cite to back that up - starting with TPI!)
I have also seen leases like that, the land worth 9 m. is divided into 3 X 30 year terms each 3 m. and paid for, and it includes a separate addendum that you paid for lease 2 a 3.
According to Thai law the lease can only be renewed upon its expiration. So with your payments you do not renew your lease, you only pay for possible renewals. You pay for a renewal that is going to happen in 30 years? Right or wrong? You do not have your renewal with the addendum or second lease contract you signed and paid for, you have signed and paid for something that is void from the beginning under LEASE LAW as the lease can not exceed 30 years.
Under CONTRACT LAW you could argue that you have an enforceable right, but even under contract law it is very doubtful if you can enter into an agreement (or as agreed) that is enforceable or starts after 30 years. Maybe you can get your initial payment back for the extra payments without the penalty written in the lease (which is of no value).
And what happens if the lessor you paid to passed away or is dissolved? The new owner can simply ignore your agreements/ payments with the previous owner.
What to do? Do you go back to the max 5 million baht limited liability company from the developer that is dissolved? Can you go after the directors that signed the second lease and addendum? No of course not. Still most of these companies offering 30+30+30 are from the beginning limited liability companies set up to sell the development. You know what that means. Or they have a clause they are allowed to transfer the land without prior permission of the lessee.
It is #### to rely on renewals.
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The problem with foreigners buying leasehold property in Thailand is hat they think they get more than 30 years, meaning 90 years or more. This is the scam that is pointed out by Khun Jean.
All promises in the lease suggesting more than 30 years are like IOU’s (I owe you) - or promises to pay back a debt after 30 years. From a legal point of view these 'guarantees' are not worth the paper it is written on. If the property changes hands, the owner of the land dies, or changes his mind the lease is terminated after 30 years, irrespective the IOU that is written in the lease.
Anything beyond 30 years is made up to generate sales.
Just look at how foreign real estate/ property sellers own property, unless it is a condo or they have a Thai family they don't own but lease short term! Just recently I saw again 2 prominent Samui foreign real estate sellers living in 15,000 thai baht a month bungalows!! Why do they not invest if it is such a good investment? Because buying property in Thailand is a stupid investment unless you like to rent for 30 years and pay upfront.
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I just put down a deposit on a condo and have a question. Most of the building looks to be sold on Leasehold. I have purchased a condo as Freehold. Is it possible to have both in the same buiding? If so, what happens after 30 years when most people's lease are up? I would appreciate to hear back from anyone who knows if this is possible. If not, I will need to talk to a lawyer.
Thanks
If it is a registered condominium out of the 100 equal units 49 can be sold freehold to foreigners. The rest 51 must be owned and registered in the name of Thai nationals or Thai juristic persons.
You can of course lease one of the 51 from a Thai entity.
The drawback of leasehold is that
1 - you do not own freehold,
2 - it could be difficult to re-sell your leasehold condo in the future (you are not the owner)
3 - leasehold has different tax liabilities,
4 - the limited term of 30 years making it in fact a wasting asset, despite what your contract says different about the term or the so called renewal guarantees.
It is merely a 30 year lease you get for your money.
Typically new condominium projects in tourist property resort areas are aimed at foreigners and the purchasers are foreigners. To sell the 49 freehold in the project is not a problem, more difficult is it to sell the remaining 51 condos under a leasehold structure to foreigners, but the developer has no choice, he has to.
What you see sometimes in off plan condos is that the developer offers sale and purchase agreements for freehold ownership beyond the 49 %, and when it comes to transferring the unit to your name you will be offered a leasehold 'ownership' with a promise it can be transferred in a later stage to freehold. In this case you can of course in this case try to get you money back, but mostly in this stage after deposit payment etc. the foreigner accepts the leasehold despite the drawbacks. That is how it works. Make it very clear you buy freehold.
From purchasers and investment point of view leasehold is not preferred.
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Moldy,
I'm doing my research on similar matters at the moment. I'm looking at the lease + usufruct route and also looking at superficies to see what extra "lifetime" protection can be written it.
A lifetime usufruct is mainly beneficial for mixed couples to protect the foreign partner should the Thai partner pass away.
The drawback of a lifetime usufruct is that if you die the next day, the usufruct comes to an end and the property reverts back to the Thai owner. You could try to register the usufruct for 30 years or life, whichever is longer.
Okay, some lawyers say with usufruct you are allowed to rent out the property and if the usufruct ends not also the lease is terminated. With a usufruct you are allowed to rent/ lease out the property. In practice this means for periods up to 3 years as a long term lease must again be registered at the land office to be enforceable and therefore you need the owner of the property. You can't do this on your own. If you have in your own name first a usufruct and then a 30 year lease over the same immovable property you would imo override with the lease the usufruct. So you have to lease it out to a third person.
Theoretically the land aspect could involve a usufruct and the house could be owned freehold, however, it is more within the system of the law that you combine a superficies with a land lease. The right of superficies may be renewed and a renewal option can be included in the superficies, similar to a lease.
If you want your heirs to receive the property or plan to sell the property in a later stage a land lease + superficies is imo the correct structure - not usufruct.
The lease + superficies construction gives you the best chance of renewal or compensation after 30 years and it reduces Building and Land tax....
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Class action lawsuit in THAILAND ? thats a new one on Me !
No one mentioned Thailand !
Some thoughts that come up:
For a criminal action against an individual the first requirement is that it must be a criminal act in both countries (Thailand and the UK). I do not know the facts but I do not see this.
For a civil procedure, the only Court you can refer to is the Thai Court. You are dealing with a Thai company, not the induviduals.
Coco uses many limited liability companies for different purposes and developments or they act as the agent for another company.
There are 100 million + developments run by 2 million baht limited liability companies. Limited liability means limited to the remaining unpaid amount, if any, of the par values of theirs shares. If the development fails, even through mismanagement (should you be able to proof this) and all the money has gone it is unlikely you get anything back in a civil action from the company or the director(s) should they be personal liable.
As a foreign purchaser in you simply must not pay large amounts in advance before you get what you have agreed!! In Thailand as the purchaser you take the risk.
This bounced cheque, just a guess, maybe he used a cheque from a company they already emptied.
Can you clear up your post? Maybe im alone but i dont get want you mean.
I was 1 - responding to Beerguy’s suggestion they could to take legal action against Coco outside Thailand and 2 - if they have a legal claim for money in Thailand they probably will end up with nothing, because of the limited share capital and limited liability these companies have.
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Class action lawsuit in THAILAND ? thats a new one on Me !
No one mentioned Thailand !
Some thoughts that come up:
For a criminal action against an individual the first requirement is that it must be a criminal act in both countries (Thailand and the UK). I do not know the facts but I do not see this.
For a civil procedure, the only Court you can refer to is the Thai Court. You are dealing with a Thai company, not the induviduals.
Coco uses many limited liability companies for different purposes and developments or they act as the agent for another company.
There are 100 million + developments run by 2 million baht limited liability companies. Limited liability means limited to the remaining unpaid amount, if any, of the par values of theirs shares. If the development fails, even through mismanagement (should you be able to proof this) and all the money has gone it is unlikely you get anything back in a civil action from the company or the director(s) should they be personal liable.
As a foreign purchaser in you simply must not pay large amounts in advance before you get what you have agreed!! In Thailand as the purchaser you take the risk.
This bounced cheque, just a guess, maybe he used a cheque from a company they already emptied.
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This structure is not theoretically fine as it is illegal to use Thai nationals to buy land on your behalf or use Thai nationals to buy land as your agent.
If you are a foreigner the land offices in Thailand will generally not register a mortgage to secure your loan agreement. Especially not if this is combined with a lease.
If your nominee land owner dies the agreements or clauses in the lease to protect your investment will not pass to the heirs.
You cannot prevent the land owner from selling the property, as in if you would, you will probably be deemed the actual owner by the land department and the Thai national your agent. In this case you risk fines and even imprisonment. Meaning, if you have problems with the nominee owner or heirs you do not want to explain the set up.
If you would explain this legal set up in Court (it will likely be deemed void) or the Land Department will deem that the Thai national has acquired the land under section 96 of the Land Code - he acquired land as the owner in place of an alien. And according to section 113 - any person who acquires land as an agent of an alien or juristic person under the provisions of Section 97 or 98 shall be punished with a fine not exceeding twenty thousand baht or an imprisonment not exceeding two years, or both.
This is not an alternative for land ownership and you must be very careful with this structure.
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What about these ones;
Couple selling their property. Well dressed business man from Bangkok turns up. Says he wants to buy the property. Transfer fees for the seller. Money, arrangements, contracts, etc, seems ok.
They buyer as a well known business man with contacts at the land office made a deal with the land office to reduce the transfer fees.
Money must be paid under the table to have the transfer registered for a lower amount than agreed (which would benefit the seller), however of course this must be paid up front.
Handed over the money in good faith. The buyer with the money never seen of again.
Or
Coupe sees a nice piece of land (Nor Sor Sam). Seller typical elderly Thai does not like contracts much as 'Thais like to do business in good faith and with handshakes….'.
They pay 20% (1 million +) deposit. Nor Sor Sam must be published before any transfer can be registered. In this period someone comes up and says the owner is not the owner and he is the owner. Sale and purchase is void.....
No transfer and the money gone.
Welcome to Samui
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eek, please come and see me when you make your trip. I will be happy to show you around.
Again, PM me when you come. I'd be happy to share my experience with you
Nothing is for free in this world. Just wondering if you could have a personal interest sbk. I can remember a post on thai visa where you were promoting/ selling 5 rai of land near choeng mon for your in-laws? Nothing wrong with that but always nice to know someones background.
cynical SOB, aren't you?
So, as a farang woman living on an island I must have an ulterior motive in looking forward to meeting another woman I have conversed with on ThaiVisa for over a year now.
Yup, I do have an ulterior motive. It would be nice to make a new female friend on the island as we are so few and far between. Enough background for you nowBL4u?
Not very polite to call me a SOB sbk.
I questioned your motives because you as the moderator remove posts and close threads with no more explanation than:
Seems this thread has run about as long as it needs to run.
//CLOSED///
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eek, please come and see me when you make your trip. I will be happy to show you around.
Again, PM me when you come. I'd be happy to share my experience with you
Nothing is for free in this world. Just wondering if you could have a personal interest sbk. I can remember a post on thai visa where you were promoting/ selling 5 rai of land near choeng mon for your in-laws? Nothing wrong with that but always nice to know someones background.
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I always thought it was a well organized arrest, deliberately with A LOT of publicity to divert attention from another scandal which was published on the same day these 3 guys were arrested:
No evidence ministers involved in land scam. Irregularities in the issuing of land-right documents because the Samui island had only 150,000 rai of land and there were land-right documents for about 200,000 rai. Mr Thaksin insisted that the encroachers would be brought to justice, no matter who they were (bangkok post July 18th 2006)
Who are the real criminals?
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Samui Community 15 February 2007:
Samui Forest Raid
On January 30, Mr. Sompong Phetongklang, the Director of Forest Preservation and the Surattanni Preventative Operation Center , inco-operationwith Mr. Deach Kangsanan, the Chief of Samui District Office, were involved in a sting operation to bring down a network of illegal loggers and wood smugglers.
The investigating team suspects that both government officials and large scale investors are involved in illegal logging on Samui and the operation was aimed at a gang allegedly chopping down trees in a protected area of over 45 rai.
During the investigation leading to the raid, it was found that a group of government officials had hired workers to occupy 20 rai of prime hilltop woodland and clear it of commercial wood stocks. It is alleged that this action was taken prior to the sale of the land to foreign investors at a rate of 3 million baht per rai.
From marks left on the trees, investigators believe the overall profit on the deal would have exceeded 140 million baht and resulted in a cost to the local government of 3.5 million baht. However a complaint was filed that resulted in an investigation based on possible violations to the forestry laws.
During the initial raid, Mr. Boonlue Klabmuang, 38, was caught cutting trees illegally. However, the suspect managed to escape
from the vehicle used to transport him to Nathon and therefore still at large.A similar article was published in the Samui Express.
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I've never seen land transferred to a foreigner, besides through a front company. It is not really relevant for foreigners, but for the info an aricle from the Bangkok Post dated February 10 2007;
New land valuations to be announced starting next year will be based on market price data as well as projections of economic growth and inflation rates.
The goal is to ensure that values represent as closely as possible actual market conditions, according to Amnuay Preemanawong, the deputy director-general of the Treasury Department.
Land valuations set by the Treasury Department and the Land Department are used as a baseline not only for market transactions, but also for tax purposes and collateral assessments by local financial institutions.
Valuations are revised every four years on a nationwide basis, with the newest values to take effect from 2008 through 2011.
The Treasury Department, which manages public lands on behalf of the government, is responsible for carrying out the valuation survey.
For the new survey, the department has split its work into three phases.
First it will revise values for land plots that are already in state databases, based on the most recent transaction data for nearby properties as well as economic data over the previous three years.
Second, it will assign valuations for 400,000 plots for the first time, mostly representing sites in Surin, Chiang Rai and Buri Ram provinces. The third phase will involve assessing values based on wholesale blocks.
Ultimately, the department hopes to compile a nationwide database with price and geographic information both for individual plots as well as broader blocks.
The initial survey is expected to be completed in July, after which the department will meet with provincial working groups to finalise the data starting from August.
Mr Amnuay said the new valuations would not necessarily result in increases in all jurisdictions, particularly in provincial areas.
The department tracks 28 million land plots nationwide, of which two million are located in Bangkok.
All land in Bangkok has already been classified on a plot basis, whereas most provinces still have valuations based on block zones.
Valuations in some areas, such as Silom and Yaowarat roads in Bangkok , typically post little change from one survey to the next, due in part to the relatively few transactions registered in the market.
As a result, official valuations in some of the most valuable areas of Bangkok are listed at around 600,000 baht per square wah, even though private valuers would assign values of up to one million baht for the same plot.
For areas with relatively few market transactions to serve as a baseline, the Treasury Department will turn to other indices to assess land values, such as rental and lease rates for an area and values attached to similar plots in the area.
Under the current valuation schedule, first used in 2004 and set to expire this year, the highest values have been assigned to properties along Silom Road , at 340,000 to 600,000 baht per square wah.
Yaowarat Road in Chinatown is valued at 260,000 to 510,000 baht per square wah, and Thaniya Road off Rama IV is valued at 340,000 to 510,000 baht.
The public can obtain information on the valuation process, including data for individual plots, on the Treasury Department website:
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Thanks BL4U,
no pre-nub, do you mean we should contact the Thai embassy in the UK?
1 - explain the situation to the local land office,
2 - ask for a list of ALL the documents they need to complete the transaction,
3 - let someone send the standard land office documents to you in the UK and
4 - have all the documents notarized in the UK (difficult because some are in Thai language only), or have them certified or legalized by the Thai embassy or consulate in the UK and send them back to Thailand.
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According to the most urgent letter No.Mor.Thor 0710/Vor.792 dated March 23, 1999,
The procedure for the acquisition of land by Thais having spouses being aliens, either by lawful marriage (with proper registration of marriage) or unlawful marriage (without proper registration of marriage) and children of aliens have been changed to be as follows:
Any Thai having an alien spouse may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land during marriage under the condition that the spouse must jointly provide a written legal confirmation stating that the entire source of funds for such purchase or gift is solely from the Personal Property (such as defined by Thai laws) of such Thai.
Without written confirmation from an alien spouse, the request for such registration must be referred to the Land Department in order to obtain an approval from the Minister.
Any alien's minor having Thai nationality may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land if it does not appear after investigation that he/she has done so to avoid the law.
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It simply means that the land must become a personal proporty of your wife and not a common property. Procedure could depends on how you are married, meaning, everything common property or separate personal property arrangements. Do you have a pre-nup.
As you live in the UK just contact the Thai embassy over there for a written confirmation. Should not be a problem.
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My Thai spouse and I recently conferred with an atty at Sunbelt in Chiang Mai re drafting a usufruct agreement. It was his opinion that a usufruct was NOT the best way to protect my rights to the house should my spouse predecease me. He said that a usufruct was a very old law, more suited to agricultural, mining and forestry use and its suitability with respect to a house was far from clear. He recommended a lease instead, stating this was a much more clearcut and well-tested way to protect a residential property. He also thought that since the house was already built, and the permit to build with the orbortor was in my spouses name, that this would also be a problem (in the event) for a usufruct. This appears to contradict previous posts, some apparently made by Sunbelt itself, on this forum. It also appears to me that either contract could be deemed invalid in court because we are married anyway. The costs appear to be about the same either route. I'm going to go with his advice, but it seems that in my case at least there is little in the way of iron clad absolute protection available under Thai law, which also according to my atty, is sufficiently ambiguous so as to allow several interpretations anyway...
I had a discussion with a Thai lawyer who in first instance said the same as the CM lawyer, but after he checked the law he agreed it is 100% secure and legal to use it for the purpose you want to use it for.
If your objective is just protecting yourself should your wife pass away a usufruct could be the best choice. Note that having a lease with your wife also implies paying rent, which could be assessed by the Revenue Department and you will have to pay Building and Land Tax over the actual rental or assessed rental value, whichever is higher.
Let your wife confirm this usufruct in her will and/ or there is nothing against her leaving the property to you in her will. Unless the law changes, then after her death you will have to transfer the land within a year to a Thai national of your choice, who then will take the property subject to the usufruct.
A usufruct has nothing to do with being old law, or not having being tested in Court. It is 100% legal, aslo for foreigners.
Below a translation of a simple Thai usufruct contract I found on the Internet.
Made at: ______
Dated: ______
This contract is made between:
Mr./Mrs./Miss ______ residing at No ___, Soi ______, ____ Road, Tambon ______, District of ______, Province ____, hereinafter called the 'Covenantor'
and
Mr./Mrs./Miss ______, residing at No ___, Soi ______, ____ Road, Tambon ______, District of ______, Province ____, hereinafter called 'Covenantee'.
Whereas the Covenantor is the lawful owner of _________________, hereinafter called the 'Property';
Parties to this contract agree to the following terms and conditions:
1. The Covenantor agrees to grant the Covenantee the usufruct of the Property, with possession, use and enjoyment of the said Property, as well as the right of management of the Property.
2. Such usufruct rights shall remain enforce for a period of ___ years (or throughout the life of ___)
3. In case of death of the Covenantee prior to expiration of the rights of usufruct granted herein, this contract shall be deemed extinguished, and shall not be transferable by way of inheritance.
4. In using the usufruct, the Covenantee shall take as much care of the Property as a person of ordinary prudence would take of his own property.
5. The Covenantee shall not transfer the usufruct to any other persons or unrelated outsiders, except with the Covenantor’s prior written consent.
6. The Covenantee shall not use the Property for any unlawful purposes.
7. The Covenantee shall keep the substance of the Property unaltered; and shall undertake ordinary maintenance and petty repairs.
8. The Covenantee shall bear all expenses for the management of the Property; pay taxes and duties; and be responsible for all interest payments on debts charged upon it.
9. The Covenantee shall insure the Property against loss for the benefit of the Covenantor throughout the period of this contract; the insurance premium of which shall be borne by the Covenantee.
10. In case of breach of contract by one party, the other party has the right to terminate the contract.
This contract is made in duplicate. The parties to the contract having read and understood the entire substance of the contract hereby sign their names in the presence of witnesses.
Signed __________ Covenantor
Signed __________ Covenantee
Signed __________ Witness
Signed __________ Witness
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based on all judicial beancounting in this thread i conclude that the signatures of my wife are null and void when she signs a credit card slip in Friendship to pay for groceries or me signing a cheque to pay a contractor who has carried out a job in or on my property.
Yes Naam, maybe you are right: Section 1473. Each spouse is manager of his or her Sin Suan Tua (personal property).
In managing the Sin Somros (community property) in the following cases, the husband and wife have to be joint manager, or one spouse has to obtain consent from the other:
(1) Selling, exchanging, sale with the right of redemption, letting out property on hire-purchase, mortgaging, releasing mortgage to mortgagor or transferring the right of mortgage on immovable property or on mortgageable movable property.
(2) Creating or distinguishing the whole or a part of the servitude, right of inhabitation, right of superficies, usufruct or charge on immovable property.
(3) Letting immovable property for more than three years.
(4) Lending money
(5) Making a gift unless it is a gift for charitable, social or moral purposes and is auitable to the family condition.
(6) Making a compromise.
(7) Submitting a dispute to arbitration.
(8) Putting up the property as guarantee or security with a competent official or the Court.
The management of the Sin Somros in any case other than those provided in paragraph one can be made only by one spouse without having to obtain consent from the other.
Was just a quick look at the law
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Only for work being done when present in Thailand a workpermit is needed.
If however you sign one document, be it a rental contract, an insurance claim, whatever, and a dispute comes out of it and it can be proven by immigration records that you actually were in Thailand at the date of signing, your signature will be declared void by any court.
Insurance companies are very well aware of this fact and will use this to try to avoid paying out any claim you make, a claim you are not allowed to make on behalf of your company while in Thailand!
Stupid example as a friend of mine found out, his car is registered on the same company on which his house his registered.
Has accident in Thailand and claims damages on behalf of the company (owner of the car). No payout has been done as they found out he took out the insurance on behalf of the company while in Thailand and not holding a WP!!!
Simply a copy of his WP (if he had had one) had been needed and the insurer would have had to pay...
A good example of the importance of a work permit.
I see what the insurance company is doing, however, I would not say it is void what your friend did (the insurance). Section 150 Civil and Commercial Code: 'An act is void if its object is expressly prohibited by law or is impossible, or is contrary to public order or good morals'. Not the case.
I would say it was more a section 153 problem: 'An act which does not comply with the requirements concerning the capacity of persons is voidable'. Maybe if he could show a (backdated) minutes of meeting from the company empowering him to enter into this insuarance on behalf of the company the insure would have to pay... Still, any signed document could be rejected by any governmental agency involved till a work permit has been issued. I do not know if johnnyk is correct that if he has signed abroad it is not necessary to have a work permit. He signs abroad but the act completes when it arrives here in Thailand.
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Got my chanote today, or perhaps I should say my illegitimate 39% falang company was issued its chanote.
Congratulations Johnnyk.
We all know that there are some risks involved but you are probably aware of these. Any problems registering the land in the company? Were you a shareholder/ director when they transferred to the comp, or do you just have good Thai shareholders. Any business purpose for the company?
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Don't get your hopes up to high.Criteria for a Mortgage
Mortgages are governed under section 702 of the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code. In this section, there are certain rules which must be adhered to in order to qualify for protection under Thai law. These include the following:
1. The mortgager must have the right of ownership of the property.
That leaves condominiums, nothing else.
In my opinion a house on leased land is not real ownership.
You could specify it more; only if the foreign as a residents is working in Thailand and if the foreigner has a work permit and a long term contract (even for them generally Thai banks wont give financing) could be eligible to get a mortgage ONLY for a condominium. Non-residents who do not work in Thailand are ineligible. Even if they were eligible they still must transfer the money from overseas for the condominium to be registered in their name, therefore making this not a viable option.
For the rest foreigners cannot own land and cannot get financing/ mortgage to buy real estate in Thailand. For a house, as they can own this freehold? NO, of course not, if your lease or usufruct ends the house will revert back to the Thai land owner. You then only can remove your house. No bank will finance this.
It is a very long and useless story by siam legal for something very simple, foreigners cannot get financing for real estate.
I would again describe this as sales talk by siam legal. Foreigners with the idea of financing start looking for property, fall in love with a property, bind themselves emotionally and sometimes contractually, only to find that they cannot get financing.
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1 – you draft the lease based on normal lease laws (1 renewal), or
2 – you hope to upgrade the lease to a Special Reciprocity Contract (2 renewals). Contrary to 'hire of property' this type of contract is not specified in the Civil and Commercial Code. This type of contract is created by the Supreme Court.
Option 2 is wishful thinking, but very important to have this knowledge if you draft a lease. As your are not able to defend yourself via the lawyers in your office by referring to such basic legal information I would not trust any lease drafted by your company.
There might be other options. BL4U, I'm not sure if you are a Thai lawyer or not. The way you talk, yes. For me, it's very difficult or impossible to read supreme Court judgments in Thailand and I rarely see non-lawyers referring to them! So, I have to consult and refer to Thai lawyers. But civil law wasn't invented in Thailand (neither where I come from) and there are different ways to automatically renew a contract.
For instance, there is a wonderful article by Didier Luelles, my ex-teacher, explaining 2 ways used in Quebec and also in France. I'm a native French speaker from Quebec (Canada).
I would love to translate it to you but It would be a little long.
I can't post links, but if you make a search on google with the words:
renouvellement bail civil didier
It will be the first article.
We can agree or not on law issues, but any serious lawyer in Thailand should give a warning to his clients on these issues.
It's always great to read some interesting stuff about Thai law.
My post is not about automatic renewals. It is about the 2 renewal lease, which is creative thinking based on Supreme Court judgments and does not work.
A Special Reciprocity Contract is, say, an upgraded lease by the Supreme Court and is the origin behind the 2 renewals lease idea. I think 95% of the lawyers active in Thailand are not aware of this and are just copying from what others do and say and what sells (90 years). Like suggested by Siam Legal.
It is 30 years you can get, the lease renewals after that are not in any way guaranteed. To understand this you should again study the Supreme Court judgments explaining real lease rights and non-lease rights in the lease agreement and general Contract Law.
Urgent Question About Service Utilities
in Real Estate, Housing, House and Land Ownership
Posted
I would say normal practice.
From another contract:
The Seller agree to apply for the installations of the meters to measure volume and quantity of use of the public utilities, both in respect of the common areas and the part separate connections to the condominium unit. The Seller agrees to apply for the installation and to pay any security deposit and expenses for the application for the use and installation of the electricity meter, water meter and telephone, to extent of such parts that are separated from the Condominium Unit to be Sold. After the Seller has completely registered the transfer of the ownership of the Condominium Unit to be Sold. On the transfer date of ownership of the Condominium the Purchaser agrees to fully reimburse the Seller for the charges, installation payments and security deposit for the use of the said public utilities, which the Seller has paid in advance. For the purpose of the transfer and name change to the Purchaser’s name, the Seller agrees to deliver all necessary documents to the Purchaser. The Purchaser shall solely be responsible for any fees incurred from such transfer. For security deposit and expenses in relation to the application for the use and installation of the electricity meter, water meter and telephone for the common property, the Seller shall carry out an assignment to cause the applicant’s name to be that of the condominium juristic person and shall subsequently collect the security deposit, installation payments and relevant expenses from the condominium juristic person.
The Purchaser shall pay all service fees in relation to the public utilities, such as the garbage collection fee, security fee, maintenance fee and fee for the cleaning of common property, to the condominium juristic person in accordance with the resolution of the condominium juristic person committee and/or at the rate as deemed appropriate by the condominium juristic person manager.