exexpat

Chinese residents for decades in Thailand were once "non-Thais", i.e. they weren't eligible for citizenship.   Only by being very socially disruptive and violent did they join Thai society.  But...other races weren't invited, because other races weren't large or powerful.  There was never any blanket protection regardless of ethnic origin.   In the US, we could have just made equal rights for Blacks, and left all other minorities out. Asian-Americans today would then have to use the "other" bathroom, sit on the back of the bus, not eat in "White and Black" restaurants. Would that have been acceptable?  

Some people will be racist, nothing we can do about it. But we don't need government in on it too.

Personally, I think it is disgusting that all these foreigners expect to just waltz into Thailand and get in line for the 30 baht health plan and 40 baht entrance fees to national parks and arrogantly and unintelligibly shout that it is racism when they have to pay a reasonable price for privileges. There is an international airport that very efficiently repatriates disgruntled farang; I only wish more would use it!

There will always be apologists for racism too.  There were during our civil rights movement, saying, well Rosa Parks should have just gone to the back of the bus.  How hard is that?   Come on!   This isn't just about Farang you dopehead!   Hmong are foreigners in their own dam_n native land!  

It's got nothing to do with race at all; a caucasian with a Thai passport is just as eligible to the lower fees as someone of the "Thai" race. Call it nationalistic or xenophobic if you must, but realise that it is simply incorrect to call the policy "racist".  

How many pure blooded Caucasians have Thai passports?   The reason why it isn't blatantly stated as "race" is because that would cause a big stink.   Also, there is no "Thai race". The whole idea of a "Thai race" is a farce. Hmong for example, have lived here for centuries.  Do they have citizenship?  NO.  This citizenship thing is just a cover for race. They are excluded because of their ethnicity.

Okay - so now can we end this debate about the bloody national park entry fees? How many people really give a toss about this anyway?? I've lived here for years and NEVER been to a national park..Am I really missing something - and if so, would it be worth writing about that I paid 100 baht more than a Thai?? This is done in many countries.

For just the 100 baht more, it isn't a big deal.   But the point isn't whether foreigners pay 1 baht more or 1000 baht more.  The point is its institutionalized racism.  Thais say, its our country, if you don't like it get out.  That is wrong to the core.  Do Thais ever stop to think that people have invested significant time, savings, emotions, and everything else to be here?   People have homes, children, jobs, lives, families here.  Most foreigners can't simply just "get out", they are just as much intertwined in society as Thai people.

I know Thais resent foreigners butting into their affairs.  I can totally understand that.   But in Thailand, nationalism can never be wrong no matter how it tramples, people cannot speak out because of fear of accusations of lese majeste, and the mere attitude that "This is our country, we can do what we want" is totally wrong, totally intolerant and extremely offensive.   This applies to anyone...whether they do it to Burmese, Hmong, Indian locals, Pattani Malays, or Farang. We in America used to do this a long time ago...until the masses marched in civil rights movement.   Bending over and making a compromise for certain groups simply because they make a fuss isn't satisfactory.   Being an "honorary Thai" is just as offensive as an "honorary white". The point is that despite the fact that there will always be some individuals having racist beliefs, institutions are promoting division and marginalization based on race, and that is unacceptable as it sets a bad example for society. If the government does it officially there is nothing wrong with it is the conclusion..

Again, the same fees, but based on something like taxpayer status, is totally acceptable. The part that makes it unacceptable is the basis of "race" and ethnicity.

Truth is, in Pattani (the land, not the province), Malays, who have been native to this land far longer than Thais, are being discriminated against. They are so tired of this Thai nationalism that effectively shuts them out of opportunity, that tramples their religion, that rapes their women and kills their sons, they have become militant. And frankly, I don't blame them. Minorities are treated like sh*t in Thailand and it has to stop.

Read this if you want to know more.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particulate#Health_effects

First of all, realize what you are doing. You are bringing children into a developing country. I can't say for sure about Bangkok's air, because they don't publish data on the medically problematic pollution, PM2.5. Some sources of data (PCD) published on PM10 and other pollutants (NOX, SO2, ozone) seems to be no worse than large North American cities, while other reports (other agencies) show its still far worse. Reliability of data is an issue, and data varies from place to place. The other pollution may induce asthma, irritation or clogging of airways, but they can be flushed, and bronchii have ability to regenerate. However, with PM2.5, it just the right size that neither the nose nor lungs can filter it out, and it goes straight to vulnerable places, causes irreparable damage by collapsing the microscopic alveoli of the lungs. A person is born with all the alveoli they will ever have, so this leads to permanent decrease in lung capacity. Nothing any doctor can do.

Typically, what Thaiboxer says about pollution is right, except for PM2.5 It is so small, it can float about anywhere, even a mile up. Isolating PM2.5 by living up high may be a bad idea, as the body may not react by clogging up the nasal passages as easily, allowing PM2.5 in easier. Trees do amazingly filter this stuff out somewhat.

Air pollution is the tip of the iceberg for medical issues. If you want the best for your children, don't bring them to impoverished countries. Like other developing nations, there are HUNDREDS of health issues in Thailand that need to be addressed, from arsenic in filtered water to TB to rats and cockroaches to clean food, not to mention a zillion safety issues. Not suprising that government can't or hasn't tackled problems here, it follows from the level of disorganization and corruption, and lack of money. Keep in mind there are far worse places, but also far better places. Sheltering them in a house won't save them from most of it.

Most people are naive about health issues. But then again, most people aren't in the medical profession.

Get a pet monkey!

When will we know the results of the poll?

If this place is very strictly no sex, it is possible but highly unlikely. There are already many legal traditional massage shops around. First I suggest you learn how protectionist the Thai laws are against foreigners. You will find that you will be a target by the police. Thais don't like to see farang making money, nor do they want competition. As a foreigner, you have very little rights.

If it is a sex massage shop that you want, then you're ain't never seeing that money ever ever ever again.  

Confucius say "He who far in love with thai see him money go bye-bye."

For Malaysia, Taman Negara or National Parks are RM10 for non-residents, and RM4 for residents, atleast the one I visited.  Prices may vary.  Doesn't matter if you are a foreigner or not, it matters if you pay taxes.  To me, this is a reasonable system.

I think most of you are totally lost why Japan is doing this.   It's not because of xenophobia or racism.  Japan is passing this fingerprint data to the US, so the US can build massive databases on the world's people.  It's all part of Bush's plan.  If Bush had it his way, the EU would be doing the same, but the EU was very stubborn.   US has been asking for 80 pieces of data on every plane passenger for years from Japan and the EU. Japan is under intense pressure from Washington, but still tries to protect its own citizens, but if you aren't a citizen, then you outta luck.   Yes Japanese society and public opinion is xenophobic, but like everywhere else its manipulated. And when it comes to a dirt poor corrupt nation like Cambodia, how can they oppose the US? Who do u think paid for those webcams at Cambodian immigration to take your face pictures, when they already have your photos? Malaysia only requires photos. Who do you think gets a copy of the data?

It's sad to hear this kind of stuff all the time.  But I guess there are lots of tourists ....fourteen million people come into Thailand each year; some don't make it out.  

As for Japanese, I guess they are easy targets, girls even easier.  In Cebu, Philippines just a week or 2 ago, a Japanese businessman was murdered on his way to the airport.  But you don't (or didn't) expect this stuff in Thailand.  I guess I'm not surprised anymore as I have waken up to the reality of that a nation who has such a massive prostitution industry (for foreigners, thais, malaysians in the south) would be run by the mafia, and everything just follows from that.   Any nation who allows, organizes and encourages their children en masse to go into prostitution is a nation in serious need of help. Not money, but a complete scrubbing of the powers that be. According to Guardian (UK), 224 Britons died in Thailand between Apr 2005 and Mar 2006, 5 times more than any other country in the world. This is without the tsunami or the recent plane crash. 

Truth is, Japan like Thailand, is making money from their business relationship, and nobody wants to rock the boat. Atleast if she died in Japan, she would get a proper investigation and funeral.

This is misinformation.  Smoking isn't banned in areas of entertainment in Thailand, but elsewhere it is banned in air conditioned locations since 2004.  All Bangkok Gov't buildings it has just been banned in 2007 (smoking rooms taken out).  The government intends to ban smoking in entertainment areas, the Health Ministry has been pushing for years.   Thailand is signatory to the UN Anti Smoking Convention, so it is obliged to push these through.  A poll found only 19% of Thais want to keep smoking in entertainment areas.   A vast majority of Thai club goers would go MORE OFTEN if they didn't allow smoking. It seems the next government will push this thru...the current one is unpopular enough, and doesn't wanna rock any boats. Personally I wish they banned it years ago. As I have studied for medical school, I know that cigarette smoke can cause over 80 types of diseases, lung cancer is just the tip of the iceberg. Microscopic alveoli in the lungs, by the way, once collapsed, are irreparable. You never grow new sacs, we can't make them, so damage is permanent. Nothing medicine nor our bodies can do. Also goes for all that dam_n Bangkok dust and pollution, and slash and burn should be banned!

Hmm...i thought farming was one of the banned activities for farang.   It makes me think of huge tractors or hordes of workers.  Isn't gardening more appropriate?

What I've found to be true regards "fitting in" in Asia is that a simple knowledge of the 

language isn't enough to be seen as "one of us".  Even if you only speak in Thai, and everyone understands you, it isn't good enough. But then again, the same thing goes 

in the US.  If a Chinese person comes to you and says "Will you help me with homeworks?", nobody would misunderstand, but nobody would think of you as a

"local".  This is key.  Unless you have near native COMMAND OF THE LANGUAGE, understand the culture from a local's point of view, and not just fluency where others can understand you and vice versa, then people will see you as an outsider.  In other words, could you accidentally confuse locals on the phone after an hour conversation that you are Thai?  Could you accidentally confuse people to believe you've lived in Thailand your whole life?

However, despite you race, people WILL accept you if you can argue the finer points of complicated subjects in Thai without making obvious mistakes.  This is true cuz I know some Vietnamese and Indian people who lived in Thailand since they were young and went thru the Thai school system.  They feel as Thai as anyone else, and don't feel like an outsider.

This seems to be the crux of the "one of us" dispute, whether its Japan, China, or elsewhere. In fact, in Japan, people did get confused in thinking that I went thru the Japanese public school system....and I am look very very farang, though I'm mixed ancestry. That's how I know.

However, as a white person in Japan, its far better. I would not want to be seen as a "local". Its too much burden. If you could see how people treated you as a "Thai", you probably would be glad they don't.

But don't be surprised if your failure to assimilate is looked upon badly. I can tell ya now that people in the US who aren't assimilating get the same sort of resentment. It's just the tables are turned, and now you're the immigrant.

As for liking it here...thats up to you man.

Just read that Thailand is sitting on $81 billion dollars of forex reserves. It would be prudent of them to upgrade the safety of the highways by making them DIVIDED, phasing out polluting old diesel buses and using natural gas (and saving even more), enforcing drunk driving penalties...and even switching drivers more often and raising the minimum wage. But of course, This is Thailand. They probably will use it to build yet another 15 useless malls having nothing locals can afford.

I agree that it is up to the school to decide if you are "native" or not.  However, there are tons of schools using Filipinos.  I think with the crackdown on farang teachers, degrees, etc etc coupled with low pay, Filipinos are gonna come to dominate English teaching in Thailand, as they will be the only ones who will tolerate such demands.  Maybe that's thailand's idea...using cheaper and more compliant labor.

Prices are a complicated thing...

I know for example in USA, I can get soy milk cheaper than in Bangkok, when on sale or at the Chinese mart everyday, but I need a car to haul it home.

Thailand is one of those countries which, has high import duties from everywhere, including Japan, USA, China, etc.  So I can find a 10 pack of blank DVD's for half the price in Taipei that i find in Bangkok, a yakisoba for 1/3 the cost in LA.

Plus China is roaring now, and has a major pork shortage.  So pork is way up, as well as pork fat.  No surprise.  Also, China is probably the cheapest supplier for many things like apples, veggies, etc, so those going up is no big suprise either.

Since the euro/aussie/looney/pound is way up, any imported items from those nations should have increased.

Labor costs and oil prices up too...so no suprise there...

Thailand's infrastructure and efficiency sucks, so despite the US making far more money, wholesale food prices are comparable or even lower than Thailand.  (Of course restaurants are still far cheaper in thailand)   That is not really unexpected as economies of scale win out over small labor intensive ones...and the idea of "produce more with less" is lost on the Thais.  They only understand "conservation"...so when Thai baht rises quickly, you pay more for the extra labor...as a trade off for the employee-less stores and long queues you have in the states.

Poor nations don't mean cheap prices, often it means high prices. Luanda, Angola for one barely has roads after 2 decades of civil war. But expats have to pay 10,000 usd a month for a western style place, cuz there is a very small pool and severe shortage of quality apts...

China though despite having massive labor pool...is run by engineers. So they understand efficiency perfectly. In no

time, Thailand will be left in the dust.

Thais don't hide news like this.  If its real, it will hit in both Bangkokpost and Nation, with the exact details.  "pre-news" such as this just goes to make people nervous by not really understanding...

Also...that man with 10 year overstay...is precisely why the govt does these things.  He may be right to not make too much of the news, but he is certainly not helping the farang cause.

I strongly disagree with this whole lack of "rules" for visas.   Rules are not heresay and such, atleast not for Thailand.  They are promulgated from the top, and officers have little say but to simply obey.

All rules are the same, but consular fees may differ in different places.

Also, if you ask an immigration officer as I have in Suan Phlu about the rules, he will explain them.  If it wasn't clear, its upon YOU to have it clarified, by asking the right questions.  I never had problems understanding the new visa rules about maximum of 3 transit visas when the laws changed in 2006, and after asking, I was vindicated that they said nothing of tourist visas.

If you don't qualify, it doesn't matter what suit u have on, how much thai u can speak, etc etc. You must follow the rules exactly and have all the paperwork done to qualify. If in the past they let u slide, but no more, it was simply cuz they were nice, or forgot to verify some requirement.

Like all consular offices and embassies, they have the "right" to refuse anyone to visa extension.  However, this right not based on their bias.  They have specific exact guidelines to reject applicants, like a terrorist, a convict etc.  They cannot reject you cuz ur ugly or fat or don't look like someone they want in their country.

I do admit though that it seems that you can get a visa through non-legal means.  This may be the case in Rayong vs Penang.  This evidently means getting a visa from a consular officer working under the table, and collecting the fee along with friends instead of going to the government.  Also, gov't officials will "ask" for more money as in the case of Cambodia, such as 1000 baht vs 20 dollars.  This asking can be quite forceful, but if you know the laws, you can insist, and they have to give u a visa.  To date nobody else I've seen has gotten it for 20 dollars and no more, cuz everyone caves in in front of demands of an officer. I've been told by consular officers I would have to wait all day in Camby for not giving into bribery, not once in 10 times have I had to wait more than 10 mins.

In poor nations immigration officials are cheats, but as officials are limited to what they can do.

If it isn't plainly obvious by the 57 pages of posts, the Thai are doing house cleaning, getting rid of "foreigners".

Of course, they can't single out farang and Singaporeans cuz its discrimination, but actually thats who they want to get rid of.  

After years of tolerating the ugly farang including those with lack of manners, total lack of respect (but along with decent well mannered farang as well), Thai have decided to get rid of "long stayers".   The Thai image of long stayers is that long stayers can't hold jobs at home, and so they came to "steal" Thai jobs, of course this is politically spinned.  Funny thing is, the short staying tourists are the ones most disrespecting the nation, but also the ones must vulnerable to con artists, therefore lucrative.

Japanese meanwhile had played the game well.  They purposely avoided committing any cultural faux pas by spending more and being polite...and also by  embedding themselves in the Thai economy with Thais, so naturally the laws bend around their needs as Thais would lose big time too, nearly half the nations' 

exports rely on Japanese cooperation.  Nevertheless, for the Japanese with no corporate connection, they suffer too...and there was a time in the 70's with widespread anti-Japanese hysteria.

I also have to add foreign residents anywhere are easy targets.  Foreigners have no rights, and are easy scapegoats for any problem.  Of course the conservative media suck it up, and believe it wholeheartedly.  Truth is, its just all a coverup for their lack of accomplishment.  This though, I must say, is almost universal in any nation, although the Thai government has been particularly noteable.

Truth is, xenophobia happens in cycles, along with manipulation of facts.  Countries kick out people only to beg them to come back later.  Public opinion on the other hand, despite reflecting the laws now, is nearly irrelevant.  Governments open up or close up due to politics, not public opinion, and then sway public opinion when its convenient.

Maybe we need to learn a thing or two from people who have been here longer, namely the Japanese and Chinese. Both groups encountered significant discrimination (Chinese in the early 1900's). This intense nationalism is one reason that Thailand is the only nation in SE Asia that Chinese have assimilated into Thai society.

Actually I beg to differ...I think Thailand's will attract MORE TOURISTS with all these crazy things...murders, boats sinking with tourists on them, buses catching fire, planes hitting the airport terminal, fires in hotels, etc.   Because, it will attract the paedophiles and sex tourists who think hope Thailand is still dirty, corrupt, and dysfunctional as ever.  They love the idea of poverty and corruption, cuz then they can molest away whatever and whereever they want.

Of course, they kick out the decent people (who live modestly, trying to have a meager but decent lifestyle...but don't spend all that much) by draconian xenophobic laws, then give the old retired men and short term visitors with unlimited paedophilic spending potential long term visas (the "high spenders"), and promote theirselves as the most dysfunctional country in SouthEast Asia.  (Well, except Burma).  Even Philippines GDP is 7.9% now.   While Filipinos try to enter medical professions on the mass scale, Thais are busy causing spreading all the STD's in the first place.  

Then instead of providing and promoting healthy foods, Thailand breaks patents to get the free drugs for obesity!   I can understand HIV drugs for the poor, but its not for the poor.  Thais never cared for the poor, ask any of the poor.  Thailand loses far more money when a munitions cache blows up, or when they pass silly draconian investment laws, or when ships full of foreign tourists sink (lets see in the past 5 years, there's been atleast 20 ships sunk in Southern Thailand)....because of their own lame stupidity! Yet "dirt poor" Thailand as they claim, is one of the few nations with an aircraft carrier.  What poor peace loving nation needs an aircraft carrier?  Sell the ###### carrier and buy the drugs for the poor like the rest of the world!

Of course the West is upset, Thailand acts like its their god given right to drugs. Yet their lazy asses never invented any.  While India is busy providing the intellectual manpower for the world development, and making drugs accessible for the genuinely poor, Thailand destroys patents for drugs induced by its own self destructive modern lifestyle!

Never mind that everything is fried in Thailand, cuz cockroaches and rats are everywhere.  Never mind that people are turning to 7-Eleven food, laced with so much sugar, fat, and salt.  Never mind that you have to buy fruits in the supermarket cuz u get diarrhea.  Never mind kids are fattening away at internet cafes playing video games all day never learning social skills.  Never mind far more people die on t

e way to the hospital,

cuz they ask for money first before helping, cuz they refuse service in the ambulance, cuz the ambulance can't get through the traffic jam cuz nobody wants to really spend on the public for traffic solutions.

Never mind changing (and enforcing) laws so that farang don't get murdered by their thai wives. Never mind actually trying to do anything!

Never mind just means, you are being screwed but not me...so why do I care?   

It seems this kind of tightening of regulations against foreigners never stops.  I guess we are the weakest link....GOODBYE.

The FBA is now being voted on. Unknown to many of us,

there is a lobby for foreign interests in Bangkok, that supports weakening it or throwing out the act altogether.

On Aug 8 a majority of the NLA (Legislature) voted in favour of expanding the definition of foreigners to include: a) the power to appoint or remove a majority of directors, the power to determine the company's future direction, and c) in the case of multi-tier holding company structure, a proposal to categorise each tier in the structure as foreign.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/23Aug2007_biz37.php

He said that businesses in the manufacturing, export and some other industries were not affected. (i.e. Japanese multinationals)

Also, there is a lobby that supports tightening of screws on foreigners.

Here are some orgs that may help to sway lobbyists:

* Joint-Foreign Chambers of Commerce is looking out for foreigner's rights. Deepak Mittal is the vice-chairman.

* British Chamber of Commerce in BKK. (BCCT). www.bccthai.com, 7th Floor, 208 Wireless Road, Lumphini, Pathumwan, Bangkok 10330

Tel: +66 (0) 2651-5350-3 Fax: +66 (0) 2651-5354 Email: [email protected]

* American Chamber of Commerce in Thailand

7th Floor, GPF Witthayu A, 93/1 Wireless Road, Lumpini, Pathumwan, Bangkok 10330

Tel: +66 (0) 2254-1041 Fax: 66 (0) 2251-1605 Email: [email protected]

It seems that the old business of Thailand is still angry about the 1997 baht crisis when they had to sell off their businesses to foreigners, and this is their payback by shutting all foreigners out from the economy, leaving a clause for Japanese manufacturers, of course. Yet all foreigners in service industries are blanket targeted, whether we had anything to do with the crisis or not.

Nevertheless, I feel that something can be done to stop this Act. If u r angered by this law, don't complain. Do something! Now's the time, as they are voting on this act!

Of course you can add, canadiangirl, females are more than welcome!

I think the author is going thru the same feelings, including the hubris that comes with it.  

As for the curious, don't worry tho, not too many commerical productions of thai gay porn these days. We can figure it out pretty easily, lah.

Oh that tops the thai guy any day!   A straight man doing gay porn.  Yum!

As for top chinese, don't pay, just come by and say hello.