geriatrickid

Mandatory testing? ... for whom? every person that has sex in Thailand? in the world?

besides it being more invasive than I would care to be with my civil liberties ......... it is also just not practical.

So .. that leaves education and education and more education

It can easily be done. The issue is what does one do once the results are known. An invasion of civil liberties. Yes. Years ago, TB cases were isolated. Until recently, socialist havens like cuba cloistered HIV+ cases in "hospitals" or as the PC like to say, gated communities. People raised a fuss about fingerprinting of folks visiting the U.S. but still people go to the U.S. Testing is already mandatory for some around the world (e.g. military, public health service (especially for Hepatitis), newborns in the EU and North America . China is considering mandatory testing for its civil service.

In Thailand the police can ask you for a urine sample to test for drugs. Decline and watch what happens.

Is it something I want. No, not really. So yes, you are right, education but with voluntary testing emphasis

As previosly asked, it would have been nice to get some tips from you local businessmen as to where to go during my holiday, but no worries. You have the audacity to blame the Thais for not promoting Phuket but it appears that you are not doing such a good job yourselves.

maybe i will spend my hard earned money elsewhere.

disappointedly Rick

That's a harsh statement. The local businesses you are so quick to shake a finger at do not have the resources or capacity to mount the campaign that is needed. That's why they pay taxes to the government at the provincial and national levels. When's the last time you saw a small resort location promote itself at the international level? Mexico doesn't, the Carribean doesn't, the Canary Islands don't. Vietnam has a national campaign highlighting tourist zones. The state of Florida promotes itself, not its individual destinations etc. etc.

They could do all the advertising they wanted, but there has to be a coordinated effort. Good example of this are flight connections from BKK to HKT. Take a look at the schedules. TG still has a mid day gap that strands a chunk of foreign arrivals in BKK. Without more appropriate flight schedules, people are discouraged from flying in.

BTW if you are staying in Karon, you picked one of the nicest and cleanest beaches. Karon is my favourite beach and I can't say enough about its quality. There are plenty of affordable restos in town. The best part of Karon is that the pace and stress levels are so much less than Patong, but its close to Patong if you need to hit carrefour for something.

No. You knowingly spread the disease if you know you are HIV positive and do not practice safer sex. To not get tested or not practice safe sex just makes you an idiot ... not a criminal!

Those of us involved with the HIV community over the years worked VERY hard to get the idea across to people 'treat all possible sexual encounters as if the other person is HIV positive'!

I know where you are coming from but that's not enough. Call me a draconian faciast, if you want, (and it's been done by my colleagues). We're not going to find a cure anytime soon and the research journals are filled with gloomy news.

It's very difficult to get adolescent males to engage in danger avoidance. They just aren't wired to understand. That's the reality and that's why the pop segment has a spike in its infection rate.

Along with rights come responsibilities. There is a legal concept called "criminal negligence". From the perspective of those responsible for infectious disease control, anyone that engages in acts that are likely to promote the spread of an infection has a duty and obligation to undertake measures to stop the spread of the disease. Included with that is testing.

Yes, I know the response will be "caveat emptor" Buyer beware. However, just as we protect at risk populations from those that would take advantage of them, so too must it be done with HIV.

Alot of emphasis has been placed upon safe sex. It's the carrot & stick approach. By offering a solution, it is hoped that the highest risk part of the problem will be avoided. The only safe method is avoidance, which is like asking a guy not to breathe. Hence, my emphasis upon testing.

The Thai military has one of the best HIV prevention programs around today. The cornerstone of that program is testing. This program is being shared with Cambodia and Vietnam.

Until the circumcision strategy is fully implemented, all we have as our last defense is to identify carriers and to prevent transmission. We did it with smallpox and it has worked for outbreaks of TB. You can't identify until you test.

The current unpublished Thai circumcision clinical studies (presently undergoing peer review) indicate a resounding success and demonstrate results similar to those of Prof. Bailey's definitive 10 year study in Uganda. With the WHO endorsement and funding presently being secured, we should begin to see positive results within a decade in Thailand. Until then, the mantra is test, test test.

Just follow the badly paved road, and you'll get there. Be sure to skip and prance so that the vulture like massage parlor girls every 10m will not scream out, "hey mister, massage, good price for you and maybe extra, ok". But be careful, there are ninja like katoeys along the way.

When you get to the Paradise complex, in order to blend in, try to look elderly and lonely. The more pathetic you look, the more likely you are to meet the virginal boy of your dreams. Remember to apply extra denture glue so that when your mouth drops at the delightful array of impoverished boys all vying for your loin, that the dentures don't fall to the ground and cause the kids to giggle.

Unfortunately, there is really nothing gay about the "Paradise" sex slave ghetto. Regular Thai gays and young western gays avoid Paradise like the plague. Try to avoid the end of the month though. That's when there will be a visit to check for HIV and STIs and everyone gets his arm jabbed. If you want a cheap date though, come back 2 weeks later when the positive test workers get turfed. You'll get a bargain and a lovely Thai souvenir when you get a slightly used boy to love you for a discount price.

And for a really exciting time, wait for the mandatory pee tests of bar patrons. It's coming soon. The strategy was tried out in Pattaya a few weeks ago, and left a few of the aged pervs in shock when they were carted to the police cells. (Don't look so shocked, there is no need for a warrant to test for drug use.)

..........Just amazing, but part of the deal I guess.

Looks like someone is going to adapt well.

For those that don't get it, those pesky bugs are part of the ecosystem. The ants and wasps are nature's recyclers and do eat other annoying insects. The birds that people love, eat those bugs in turn.

One way of dealing with the insects is to spray insecticide. Mind you, when the birds start to die and the animals that eat those birds die and the ground water is poisoned and then kids start showing up with a couple extra limbs or lovely deformities or predispositions to various cancers it's a bit of a drag. Another solution is to cut down the trees and pave over everything so it looks like your typical suburban development in Miami or Sydney. Mind you if they did that, you might as well have stayed at home.

Ants, snakes and other annoyances come with the turf. Please understand that as it was wisely stated, they are part of the deal.

Let me guess. the grenade was made in China?

You have just highlighted the major weakness of the Thai tourism strategy. And now for my biased opinion; Other countries are passing Thailand by and capturing tourist dollars. A good example is Costa Rica. It's just as impoverished as Thailand (if you want to use that as an excuse) but the difference is that Cost Rica embraced eco tourism and put a tremendous effort into things that ran from the high end to the low end like sewage treatment and garbage cans on beaches. When's the last time you saw a garbage can on Patong beach??? The result is that low season in Costa Rica is still busy. (I apologize to the WSJ and Economist for borrowing heavily from their articles.)

Experienced Thai tourist pros have been saying for years that there had to be long term planning. No one listened. There's lots to do in Thailand in "low season". It's a great time to see the real Thailand, but nooooooooooo. Tourism officials give the impression that they are afflicted with jet ski franchise syndrome and they play to the lowest common denominator. No other tourist destination except Cancun has a strategy so focused on the cheap bar trade as Thailand. It's outdated and useless. When's the last time you saw an effort made to promote the beauty and charm of Northern Thailand? There's so much to see, to enjoy and to experience, but you'd think the tourism folks were suckled on a whore's teat. Thailand has so much to offer and the only people it seems that can't explain it properly are the people that are supposed to promote it.

The observation about the mid range establishments being filled is so right on the target. The profit center for tourism are the well heeled types that think nothing of dropping 10,000 - 20,000 B a night. Malaysia and Singapore captured the high end tourists in "low season". Laugh if you want, but potable water was a major factor. High end asian tourists, especially the Japanese have issues about places where tap water is impure. Thailand will be playing catch up for a long time as the usual rehearsed slogans and statements are trotted out for news briefings. In the meantime some very experienced people from Thailand are being wooed away by countries like Vietnam with its Da Nang strategy. (Key projects in Vietnam's tourist development strategy are water and sewage treatment plants.) There are enough qualified Thais saying the same thing. It's time they were listened to.

but you make the big assumption that there is "a" guy knowingly spreading the disease

You knowingly spread the disease if you do not use a condom , encourage others to engage in unsafe activities, refuse to inform your partner of your status and refuse to be tested. This applies to heteros as well as homos.

Yea, that's an opinionated statement, but that comes from my years of public health. I've seen way too many trusting good people infected because of the irresponsibility and selfishness of others.

The post was very applicable to Thailand, because many foreigners insist on barebacking and will offer all sorts of money to barboys to do it.

Textbooks call the Thai response in the late 90's to HIV, the gold standard of prevention strategies. Due to the efficacy of some treatments and the short term drop of infections, complacency set in. Programs were curtailed and young people stopped listening. People thought all it needed was a few pills and it was ok, no problem. Unfortunately, today we are on the rebound curve. The plan to dispense drugs with no associated care program and follow up will only encourage the development of more resitant strains. Add to that the increasing numbers of existant resistant strains, super infections involving overlapped viruses and no new anti virals on the horizon and you have a catastrophe in the making.

HIV is stronger, less responsive to treatment, mutating faster and the people most at risk aren't listening to the warnings. Yea, so, it was a good post and if it jolts someone to think twice, and it will, then it's worth a he11 of alot more than a tip on where to wax your back.

Last trip from the airport was in april and they have a laminated card showing the fixed costs to various places at the taxi kiosk at the far end of the terminal. To be honest, I was being cheap when I took the cab. I should have paid the extra 150B and taken the grey "limo". For 500B you get working a/c. Seriously, 150B is like 2 quid or $4us and I was worried, my g/f would give me grief for spending too much. At least the Grey cars are fairly new and you don't get a spring up your posterior as I did in the cab, (my friend was amused and called it my katoey experience....)

I'm curious as to what happened. Did your friend move to Manila?

I had an opportunity to move there and declined. Same reason I won't live in BKK. No green space, crazy assed development, too many cars, too big, pollution etc. While Manila may have its crime problems, there is a functioning justice system and the police are not as corrupt as one would think. For an english speaker, the philippines is much easier to get around in since english is more commonly spoken than in many SE Asian countries. Pinoys are accomodating to alternative lifesyles. Actually, I don't think they give a ######, as they have bigger issues to worry about. They might disapprove of the lifestyle but it won't be the in your face kind of sentiment you will find in the rest of the world.

The Philippines major export is intellectual and labour capital, so the chances are you are going to be served by a decently educated and polite person in the service industry. Manilla has high end vocational schools that churn out electricians, plumbers etc. Maybe the standards and quality aren't the best, but at least you can get skilled labour. Many hospitals in the west actively recruit their nurses from the phillipines.

Like any country, it all depends on where you live and eat if you want something decent. Yes there are armed security guards everywhere but I am either lucky or nondescript because I never ever have had a problem or been approached by criminals. I had some encounters in BKK and Phuket though. Sure, parts of Manila are dangerous, but how many of you promenade through BKK's hooker zone? I won't drive in Thailand, but I will in the philippines.

I reckon it's all about how you choose to approach the place. If you want it to be ok, it will be.

geriatrikid's post left we wondering who he was talking about at any one moment, a thai b/f or the falang.

I do note, however, that the negative relationship description received a great deal more attention than the positive one.

You're right, I mucked that up. I was trying to point out what made one a solid relationship and the other one doomed. The comments were about a really decent guy and the the miserable prune I dislike and why their relationship worked or didn't work. I commited 2 cardinal sins of posting; 1. Stating the obvious, cuz those of you with solid relationships knew this already and 2. Commenting as if you knew the guys. ( I suspect you probably know the "bad" type. They come in all shapes, sizes & nationalities.) I will put my brain in gear next time. No wonder why when we go for a beer, we sit in the corner so no one hears my idiot remarks.

I comment as the "other" man.

I have 2 thai friends that are gay. They have western b/fs. (I met one through a girl I had dated in case you are wondering how I met them. Her brother was always doing something for me and I became dependent upon the grinning midget.)

1 of the guy's has an enviable relationship, sort of textbook wonderful.His western b/f is totally excellent. They are close in age. He laughs alot and is somewhat attentive to letting his b/f know when he is out with his other friends etc. He's the kind of free spirit that will walk around naked and not care who's peeking. He's also very attached to his guy, getting him through his visa process for Australia etc. and putting up with the family routine.

The other western b/f is the kind of guy you would instantly take a dislike to, always reminding his much younger b/f how much he paid for something or all that he has done. Dour and a face that looks like it dried out on the Norwegian tundra. Theirs is a relationship filled with jealousy and it's fueled by the westerner's behaviour. The Thai guy comes from a simple farm family and what you see is what you get, particularly scared about being poor and very insecure. When they go out, Western guy will intentionally talk up some bar boy or something like that. Maybe the intent isn't to provoke jealousy but that's the result. I had thai guy come to my door one day at 5 am crying because his b/f was "mean" to him. When I asked how mean, it was because western guy had talked to some other guy and bought him a beer while they were out. It's a nothing situation to most of us, but to a scared kid with nothing, it's big I guess. I admit to adding fuel to the fire because I tossed the kid 2000 baht and told him next time to make sure he had some fun and to be sure Mr. Icicle saw him getting busy. This caused the frigid one to think I had changed teams and had paid for sex from his b/f. (you know, the once a bar boy type, always a ho kind of thinking.)

I get the feeling that in Thailand, it might be best to think from the other guy's perspective and then to amplify the emotional impact of your behaviour. Young gay Thais that come from impoverished backgrounds are hyper sensitive and you have to adjust to that. I do worry though about the ballistic tempers. Some of these guys just erupt over nothing and they start throwing stuff etc. Maybe the best option is to walk away while you still have your dignity and body parts and start the process again. With so many people looking to love and to be loved, you're bound to get it right sooner or later.

Somchai was charged with raping a woman not his wife.

.....Is that how it is defined? So it must be okay to rape his wife...............?

Strange. But the victim had a lot of courage to report it and at tleast the police were quick to deal with it.

I noticed the bit about the "not his wife" too. As a male, I now understand why women get so p*ssed off about these things. The good thing about this is that the woman had the strength to report him. At least he will not rape again anytime soon. She will have least the knowledge that she saved someone else the pain of this.

I know this supposed to be a "gay" thread, but d*mn if it isn't applicable to any type of relationship.

Ok Aretha, waddle on in and sing it now; Respect.

The guys that report a successful relationship are the ones that left their partner with his self respect, dignity and a measure of independence. Gee, go figure....

Consistently successful people are surrounded by other successful people. It's the common characteristic of people that do well, whether it's in love, work or personal relationships. At the risk of ripping your rainbow thongs, some of you people would have done very well whether it was boy or girl or even a blow up doll, because you have common sense and integrity. Good people do attract other good people.

I figured I was allowed to comment since I do have a b/f of sorts, although he has 4 legs. He is self reliant & independent except when he expects me to put food in the bowl, clean up his droppings or run around with a ball making an ass of myself.

Violent crime usually increases anytime there is an increase in the young male demographic and when there is an economic downturn. My point was that Thailand is becoming increasingly violent. While it may reassure some to say, well it's just locals killing each other, a murder rate of about .08/1000 is not reassuring if you are from countries like Australia/UK/Canada @0.015, Scandanavia 0.01, whereas Malaysia's approx. 0.02 might be. Malaysia made a big step in long term crime supression by funding its educational and high tech manufacturing programs.

No I am not saying Thailand is horrible or crime ridden. it is still relatively safe. However, my point was that parts of Phuket have been severely neglected, sort of like what happened when 1970's urban sprawl occurred in the UK or US. There's been an influx of the type of people that will not contribute to the island's sustainable growth. I have seen too many property developments that in a decade are going to be money pit wrecks for the suckers that purchased units in them. The water system cannot support the growth. I honestly believe that there will be water restrictions and probably rationing within 5 years unless the development is curtailed.

Thailand is still my favourite SE Asia destination. I go there because I can be left alone, be in a country that still has wonderful people and enjoy some beautiful beaches. Phuket was once THE destination in Thailand. It isn't anymore. My fear is that complacency has arrived in Phuket.

I used to be a regular visitor to Phuket pre 2001, until air travel became a nightmare. Started returning to Phuket several times in the past year. The changes are significant. Karon is still the jewel of beaches (and yes, my favourite).

The quality of tourists has really deteriorated with a trend towards the obnoxiously rude and litterbugs. The happy go lucky backpacker kids seem to have been squeezed out by the ever increasing costs in favour of those cheap junket types that attract the scum of europe, and the former east bloc. The fun australian types seem to have moved on etc. etc. Or maybe the world just got a lot nastier and I didn't notice it until now.

I still have 2 thai friends that have worked in Phuket for the past 5 years and they don't like the changes. There would have been 3, but 1 had enough of the high costs and moved north.

Phuket's infrastructure has not kept pace with the development and I am no longer considering setting up a 2nd home on the island. Something just isn't right. You can see it in some of the local Thai's faces. The atmosphere reminds me alot of Miami Beach last economic downturn.

I have a feeling unless Thailand puts some emphasis on following the example of tourist destinations like Costa Rica, Belize etc. they are going to squander the opportunity of attracting and keeping the desirable tourist/expat demographic. Countries like Vietnam and even Malaysia are coming on strong with their emphasis on going "green", law & order and infrastructure. Phuket had so much to offer, but it's as if no one cares anymore.

Apple Store Jungceylon.