KBTexas

Thanks again to all for all of the suggestions. We only have a week in Chiang Mai, so I think we'll save a few of these for the next trip.

thaisail....I hope you enjoy your return visit as much as you enjoyed your last visit! Heh, white water rafting/kayaking/canoeing was in my younger, crazier days. Haven't done it for 25 years, and would probably have a coronary if I tried it now. Let's just say that 35 years of IT have taken their toll on my physical abilities. (heh, how is that for a nice way to say I am old and out of shape?)

One follow up question: I roast my own coffee, and will bring some with me when I come to Thailand, mainly because I cannot find good coffee in Thailand. Let me say that StarBucks, (aka CharBucks) is NOT good coffee, and is a prime example of attitude and marketing wins, IMO. (hey, if ya like it, enjoy it!) In every coffee shop I've been to in the hotels in Thailand, they make espresso with a machine that has a liquid coffee concentrate. Not exactly my idea of espresso, and not even a decent cappuccino. I can't bring enough for my whole visit, so was wondering if there were any decent coffee shops in Chiang Mai near the Ping River? In another thread, I saw there are some decent bakeries, so a nice pastry and good coffee would be wonderful! My definition of decent is someone who roasts their own coffee, properly grinds when the coffee is ordered from fresh beans, and knows how to make a proper espresso or cappuccino. Yeah, I know...a lot to ask. But the only way to really get a wonderful beverage IMO.

Riverside restaurant is nice, you can sit outside by the river if you don't like the live band, or get on their boat (leaves at 7pm I believe) for dinner and a trip down the river.

How about some of the more unusual Wats, Wat Chedi Luang (centre) or wat chedi Yot (near the uni) are good (and free).

Trip to Doi Suthep should go down with a Thai wife, then onto the hilltribe village and dress her up in traditional dress for 100bht near the entrance to the garden, all the thai ladies enjoy a dressup.

A walk around chinatown area is good, lots of shopping, Hotshots in the evening for the live stage show.

Thanks for the suggestions pj...will definitely try the Riverside. Do you need reservations to go on the boat, or just show up and tell them you wish to go on the boat?

Will leave it up to the wife if she wishes to visit the Wats or Doi Suthep. But the 'dressup' sounds interesting, so we'll have to give that a shot. How do you visit a hill tribe village? I assume it is a guide or somesuch? And what is Hotshots? 'Live Stage Show' has many different meanings around the world.

You might enjoy the Art Museum, small but very pleasant. You may also want to try dinner at The Gallery which is on the Ping River also, good quality and sensibly priced (for a farang) Thai food in a pleasant and romantic setting, also with live Thai music to accompany.

Thanks for the info chiang...will also try the Gallery. Thai food and Thai entertainment makes my wife very comfortable.

Is the Art Museum local arts and crafts? If not, is there a Museum of local arts and crafts?

So, it looks like:

Riverside - River boat dinner

The Gallery

The House on Moon Muang for after dinner drinks and conversation

Visit a hill tribe village

Night Market - any 'best' time/night to go here?

Sunday Walking Market

Maybe visit some Wats or Doi Suthep

Maybe visit the Art Museum

Maybe visit Hotshots, if it would not be too upsetting for a Thai wife.

Thanks so much for all the great suggestions. If there are other not to miss things, please let me know.

Some very good suggestions here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Parents-Comi...it-t299429.html

I think within this forum there is a wealth of ideas for you and the spouse.

btw... This Houston boy has been to Dallas and "Old Warsaw". Excellent place :-)

Thanks for the link greed...I have bookmarked it so I can find it again when I am in Chang Mai. It does have some interesting information in the thread. But not a lot was said about places for 'romance'. Heheheh, it may shock the young-uns, but 58 ain't too old to be romantic.

And yes, Old Warsaw is highly recommended by me for anyone looking for an elegant romantic dinner in Dallas without taking a second mortgage on your house! Excellent food, presentation and atmosphere. Not cheap by Thai standards, but neither is Burger King. And certainly much better value than some of the Cuisine Noir places near it. But you can imagine how rather exotic it was to my Thai wife. After she finally relaxed, got a quick primer on place settings and usage, and decided to be daring, she enjoyed it a lot. The waiters there made her feel like a princess, and I think they were surprised when she thanked each of them individually when we left.

My Thai wife and I are visiting Chang Mai for a week in October, and will be staying near the Ping River. We're a bit too old for the club scene (58,45) but enjoy going out and seeing what is in an area. This will be my first visit to Chang Mai, and while my wife has visited before for various seminars and classes and the like, it will be her first 'romantic' trip to Chang Mai.

The House on Moon Muang has been suggested as a good after dinner place for drinks and conversation, and I've read the restaurant and drinking threads under the pinned area of this forum. Some of the wine bars sound interesting. However, as restaurants and bars change quickly and radically, I thought I would ask the group...if you were in Chang Mai for a 'romantic' getaway (with your wife mind you), what would you do? We both love good food, though her breadth of knowledge of Western food is a bit limited. If you are familiar with Old Warsaw in Dallas, she was flabbergasted at the 7 course meal there, and was a bit afraid of the food and atmosphere. So, I am looking for a nice, quiet, romantic place to take her where her Thai sensibilities are not overwhelmed. Perhaps not a 3 star French restaurant, but a nice place where we can talk and there is (soft) music in the background. Heheheh, I would probably get good points if the music was Thai, but she does like my jazz, blues and international music collection. Any suggestions would be most welcome.

Also, other than the night market, which I have already been informed we will visit , what would you do during the day? Elephant trekking is not my thing, but museums and/or local arts and crafts is something I am always interested in.

I am looking forward to any feedback the group is willing to provide, and thank all for their suggestions in advance.

The House on Moon Muang has a nice outside cocktail area that is quiet and has comfortable sofas

Thanks for the tip Theyre, we'll check it out. Have you been to any of the wine bars mentioned?

Questions for the group:

My (Thai) wife and I will visit Chang Mai in October, because I wanted to see something more of Thailand than the beaches we normally go to. We are a bit older than the 'club' crowd (58,45), so I'm looking for a place where we can sit and talk, but still hear decent music (jazz, blues). My wife is a Thai school teacher, and doesn't drink much, but a friendly place with decent food and a good atmosphere for couples would be a nice way to spend an evening.

I've read the messages posted here, and some of the wine bars sound decent. My question is, knowing the above, if you were in Chang Mai for a short time and wanted a romantic night out with the wife, where would you go?

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Phuket (why not Puket)

Heh, you do not wish to know how my American friends who have never been to Thailand pronounce Phuket. They pronounce it phonetically...and we usually say Ph as an f (phone, phantom, pharaoh) .

Thai politicians might even start thinking about what to say before opening their mouth. ;-P

Ummm, that would lead to quite the conundrum of what to call them then. I think the very definition of politician is 'one who works in government and does not think about the things they say or do'. And I am not just talking about Thai politicians.

would you consider ketchup and 'french' fries as vegetable? think US, before you answer.

Heh, it wasn't ketchup and fries...it was ketchup...so ketchup and fries (or other veggie) could be considered TWO servings of veggies for school lunches or some such. After 20 years, I forget the political stupidity, but I think that was the gist of it.

An american breakfast aint right if it aint got grits, sunnyside up eggs cooked in bacon grissle oil, or fresh biscuits covered in sausage gravy. mmmm now thats good eatin!

"...aints got grits"! Hahaa, you obviously don't go too far from Florida do you...within the rest of the States that is? Biscuits and gravy too! Nice! Two of my favorite down south meals but not necessarily the standard breakfast of "America".

Forgive my ignorance (I'm British), but could you explain to me what biscuits are. The word biscuits in the UK refers to what Americans would call Cookies. Also, what are grits?

Thanks

Biscuits are probably closest to a scone, though a scone is sweeter and less dense than an American biscuit. White sausage gravy (also called Sawmill gravy), or country ham and red-eye gravy, is usually served with the biscuits.

Grits are course ground corn. Polenta would be a close equivalent, or a corn gruel (I think that is what it is called in England), but drier. Usually they are served with butter, salt and fresh ground black pepper and are wonderful with eggs and bacon or sausage.

Hope it helps clear it up.

Using the standardized template of items including eggs that don't taste like fish sauce, ham that's more than 1mm thick, potatoes of some kind

In the course of the years I probably consumed a few times my own weight of American breakfasts, but was never served one that contained something made of potatoes.

Main things are that the coffee comes quickly, and that the white part of the fried eggs is indeed white, and not transparant.

And the yellow part is still runny. Had breakfast in England and ALWAYS had to ask them to please not cook the egg hard cooked, or put it inside toast. Crispy bacon as opposed to a consistency almost like boiled bacon. Decent pork sausage, country fried or hash browned potatoes, or, if no potatoes, grits or pancakes. Oh yes, the coffee MUST be real coffee.

I like your attitude, KBTexas. You've learned from both experience and reading. I agree with what you say, and there are no absolutes in regards to Thai behaviour. I've seen all aspects of the Thai culture, from extreme generosity to an almost total ATM concept. I have seen it with the bar girls and out where no farangs exist.

Thanks for the kind words Ian. I am not saying these things do not exist, just that I have not personally run into them with our Thai friends.

I think if we could put ourselves in the shoes of some of those whose 'decisions' are so scorned here, we would find that perhaps our own views might be a bit different. I've never had to worry about feeding or educating my children, so I have no experience that allows me to second guess whatever decisions were arrived at, and as such, will not venture my opinion on that decision unless asked for it by the person who made it. I was raised to make sure my own house was in order, and I wish that was a bit more common than it is.

However, that does not lead to good entertainment on the farang board.

Best Regards,

KBTexas

It's been a few years since I read it, but I recollect that there was a chapter about dating a Thai woman who is a bar girl and/or from the sex industry, but that was it - the book did not 'assume' that Thai women are 'sex workers'.

It was set up in the beginning of the book IIRC, and most situations in the book were for the 'awkward' moments her background may cause.

Like you, I read it a couple of years ago, so I may misremember, but I thought that was the case. I know my wife thought that was the case from reading both the Thai and English version, because I had to convince her to read it differently.

Best Regards,

KBTexas

That's meant to be a little tongue in cheek. Not to be taken too seriously.

KB Texas - I like your comment.

oops...didn't see your followup until after I posted. ;-) Heh, but at least I got it off my chest.

snip...

I feel that it should have made stronger points as to our differences in thinking - eg - generosity being more of a power thing.

Should you find your girlfriend is 'playing away', you can throw her out, or accept the lies with a knowing look. Confession is out. Confrontation verboten.

Thais are bad liars - nobody gets called on anything over here, so no need to learn to lie well.

Thais do not consider the consequences of their actions, preferring, generally to not think too much, and just live. This helps to understand the high murder rate in Thai.

Money - spend it all, now. That is, if it's your partners money.

Debts? What foreign concept is this - you mean you want that money back?

Lastly, Chinese Thai are very different from Thai Thai

Do you mean the Western concept of charity? Yes, you are right...

Probably more of a problem if your s.o. came from the sex industry the book talked about

Westerners are much better liars than Thai's. Not sure this is a positive.

Or LA or Washington, DC. Seems to me that this is a worldwide fault in humans.

Absolutely untrue. My wife is the most frugal person I have ever met.

Again, absolutely untrue. Maybe for some, or even many, but not for all. You paint with a very broad brush.

I will have to take your word for that, since I have never personally interacted with Chinese Thai.

Perhaps I am just one of the lucky ones, but I read all of the time on here how Thai's are liars and cheats and thieves, and just do not see it unless I go somewhere like Phuket where fleecing the tourist is a sport. The people I have met are warm, honest, caring people with a pretty laid back attitude, and are friendly and helpful and much more understanding than they get credit for. It's one reason I seldom post here...because the prevailing attitude is one of derision and superiority. (I am not saying everyone here is like that, so save the text missiles folks) Yes, Thai's are DIFFERENT than Western peoples, but if you look, you can see the same good and bad in London, Atlanta, Sydney and Bangkok. Been there, seen it.

I am of the opinion that you get what you give. If you give respect, you get respect. If you give attitude, you get attitude.

Best Regards,

KBTexas

I've read the book, and so has my wife, and we both agree that while it is not perfect, it is a good starting point for conversation. My biggest concern with the book, although probably realistic, was that the women were assumed to come from the sex industry. Nothing is said about how values are different for different social castes within Thai culture, and they do differ. Another poster said his wife was upset after reading the book. Mine was a bit too, because the book assumes the women are sex workers This is very disgraceful behavior to 'proper' Thai women and they are not very good at putting themselves into a different point of view. ;-) After I explained the idea of 'assumption' and asked her to think of it as if the woman was an office worker, she was a bit more open to discussion.

Thai's have a concept called nam jai, literally, juice of the heart, but really meaning being compassionate and helping others, without expecting something in return. For honorable Thai's, it is a central concept..help because it is the right thing to do, not because you expect reward for it. Personally, I like this concept much better than the 'what's in it for me?' western idea, and I see it in day to day life within my wife's family. (and obtw, not all Thai families expect you to be the ATM...but that is a LONG discussion)

My wife's family is much more Westernized and liberal than most Thai families, but they are still Thai through and through. They know I am farang, and will make social gaffs, and laugh about it instead of being upset by it. Like when I called my mother-in-law a dog (ma vs mae)...she could have easily gotten offended and been upset by that, but she realized that it was an honest mistake when my wife explained that 'ma' in English was slang for mother (after she elbowed me in the ribs), and still laughs about it to this day. (even though I have learned mae) They also understand that Western concepts of marriage are different, and I was not asked to 'pay' for my wife, which impressed me quite a lot. I DO understand my wifes commitment to her parents, and while a little excessive in Western standards, I think perhaps we might learn a thing or two from it. I help my mom too...though she is very independent and does not expect the help. It is one thing my wife and her family liked about me, because it was a thing they could understand.

Oh well, you asked about the book. It is like any other book. Read it, have your girlfriend/wife read it, and use it as a place to start your discussions. I don't agree with all of it, and my wife did not agree with all of it, but it did provide a central theme for us to talk about the differences of our cultures and the ways we can accept those differences. What more do you ask from a book?

Best Regards,

KBTexas

Who withdraws currency and travels to another country to exchange them there? (Forgeries are usually bought locally.)

I withdraw using VISA or (/and) change money at a teller Before flying to another country. But that is me...

Actually, I still bring a stack of $100 and $50 bills with me when I come to Asia. I also bring my VISA debit cards, but since they charge services fees and now a 3% currency conversion fee, I believe I get a better deal at the currency exchange.

Of course, the black market in Manila is even better, although I have heard the stories and watch them like a hawk. I think writing down the serial numbers before using the money changer is an excellent idea.

One other problem I have encountered with the debit card is finding a bank with the same network as my US bank. Can be difficult.

Make sure the bank notes you bring are in virtually mint condition. Indonesia is the worst about accepting used or creased bills. I think they intend to use them for years over there, so they give a better exchange rate for perfectly new bills.

When trying to change $100 bills last October in Bangkok, I was told that the bank could not accept bills with a series date earlier than 2003. I had just gone to the bank and gotten good $100 bills, but did not know about the series date thing. It was a good thing I had travelers checks, because over half of the bills I had were too 'old' for the bank to accept. When I asked why this was, I was told that earlier series were too easy to counterfeit.

So this year I will be sure to get crisp, new bills, of the newest series...and still get travelers checks.

Interestingly, how does homosexual activity create this "acidity", whilst heterosexual activity doesn't? Can anybody explain that?

He explained that! Homosex and masturbation will produce heat, while heterosex is cold sex...

He's doing it wrong then!!!

please be specific.... wanking by yourself or having someone wank it for you?

And how does the virus (or the acids...I am kinda confused) know it is your hand or a male hand (or other parts) vs a female hand (or other parts)? Has it morphed into intelligence? Wow! That IS scary!!!! I am very thankful that this quack, errr, I mean Doctor, has given us the heads up on this! I will tell my wife immediately.

ken b

after having read your last post, i almost want to ask whence in oct. indeed.... lol

It's a secret. ;-) But I will pay more attention to the cost.

perhaps not for any other reason than.... me flying in to suvana watching you and yours catching a taxi.... then, i would do likewise after you, and i would instruct my cabbie--

TARM ROTH KUN NHAR KRUP ตามรถคันหน้าครับ

Ok, follow that cab/car. :-)

if you haven't been there, it is worth every penny, but then your wife might have a different opinion though, she might whisper something along this line in your ear....

บ้าไปแล้วเหรอ ฉันดาวรถใหม่ได้ทั้งคันนะ

BAAR PAI LA-EW RHOR, CHAN DOWN ROT MAI, DAI TUNK KUN NA....

I believe I would get very much the same attitude. :-)

it appears that you are realizing your dreams.... pls spend some quality precious relaxing moment with her there in a spa tub with candle lights and some yogurt.... of course, .... but then....

on the other hand, she might opt for ปลาทู plar-too, just to make the moment even more memorable.... lol

Ok, this one I don't get. How does mackeral make such a moment more memorable? I know that Thai's eat rice and mackeral to save money, or if you are poor, but that does not compute either. :shrug: (heh, no shrug smiley)

And yeah, I enjoy the visits to Thailand. We usually go to the beach, but since there is perhaps an ASEAN conference in Phuket near when I will be there, I think this year we will go to Chang Mai and back to Bangkok. While in Bangkok, I plan to rent a van and go to Ayuttaya with some friends, and visit the old temple and the floating flower market. Should be an interesting and fun trip since I do not often play tourist. :-)

Ken B

Please read the entire thread.

Logout, clear cache, clear all cookies except ID, and logging back in fixed. Thanks.

And I missed the other messages the first time. Sorry.

The forum has just (c. 13.15 GMT) changed the format for displaying posts. They are now centred rather than left-justified. Can we please go back to their being left-justified. The format change shows up in both Firefox and IE7. I don't want to have to explicitly request that posts be left justified by using the 'left' tag.

Also, we seem to have lost the forum hierarchy line. Please can we have that back - it is very useful for looking at other topics in a forum when you have finished catching up on one topic.

Richard.

Totally agree with BOTH requests! The change makes it VERY hard to read, and the loss of the quick link line makes it hard to go back to the main area you are in.

Fixed, and check out Phaeton's avatar.

Not fixed for me, still all centered. And all the posts I see for Phaeton has no avatar.

Is there a reason I should check it out? Does he already use the Einstein pic I use?

Smaller text,topic mid screen?,or is it my comp?

PST.

heh, almost a simultaneous post! :-)

Ok, suddenly everything on the forums is showing up centered in FireFox 3.0.12 instead of left justified as I expect. It was left justified up until this morning (evening Thai time). Did someone change the settings? I cannot find anything through search, My Controls, or anywhere else where this can be set or changed, so I assume it was changed in the stylesheet for the site. It is not very easy to read when menus, subjects and text all show up centered.

Any info appreciated.